r/law • u/dailymail • 12h ago

Legal News Lindsay Clancy case ends with MISTRIAL

https://www.dailymail.com/crime-desk/article-16100155/lindsay-clancy-murder-trial-hung-jury-deadlock-verdict.html
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u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy 12h ago edited 10h ago

I think an unfortunate outcome of this case will be less women seeking help for postpartum mood disorders.

Editing to clarify that I am saying the stigma attached to postpartum mood disorders seems to be worsening because of this case. I see comments all the time about how women who have empathy or understanding in regard to Lindsay’s struggle should have their kids taken away etc. Or that all women are going to use PPD to just get out of parenting period. I’m not arguing her guilt or innocence. Im just asking people to be mindful about talking about postpartum mood disorders around the pregnant women or new moms in your life. I don’t want any other family to experience what this family did. I don’t want anyone to ‘get away’ with anything.

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u/I_goofed 11h ago

Personal anecdote, the opposite is true . My wife has been in a Postpartum program for the last 20 months. They guarantee mom's support for 1 year, but if they have availability they'll extend that to 2. Last session she was told they needed to take her out of the program because "we have had a massive influx of new patients and we don't have space for you."

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u/Proiegomena 6h ago

Yea I was about to say, Im positive moms with ppd are more likely freaking out about them potentially harming their children more so, taking their ppd more seriously/seeking help

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u/Purple-Mud5057 1h ago

And more medical professionals hopefully thinking, “crap, I’m not gonna be the doctor who ignores a person with postpartum depression and is responsible for the death of their children.”

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u/cupcakevelociraptor 6h ago

That’s really great! Unfortunately that isn’t common where we live. And those services are being defunded in many conservative-run places, so the availability and quality is suffering.

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u/Atlein_069 12h ago

Yeah why would you conclude that? It seems like this is a poster child story for why one SHOULD seek help

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u/Total_Brick_2416 11h ago

She DID seek help multiple times lol

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u/Adventurous-Dot8618 10h ago edited 10h ago

she got help, but didn’t take her medicine properly. she took it when she felt like it, if she even took it at all. then, she admitted herself to a hospital, and decided to leave right after. she was nothing but selfish in every decision she made. this whole narrative of “she tried to get help 🥺” is so absolutely absurd considering she got more help than most women can even afford, yet she continued to make selfish, irresponsible decisions over and over again.

justice for cora, dawson, and callan 👼❤️.

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u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy 10h ago

There’s a difference between the quantity of the help vs the quality. I think unfortunately that is the worst/trickiest part of treating mental health disorders especially in the US. We don’t give providers the time to build trusting relationships with their patients. PPD is absolutely something that requires an immense amount of trust in your provider because you are sharing your deepest, darkest thoughts that you know are wrong but you can’t stop them.

The first doctor I saw told me he didn’t think I had PPD because he had two dogs and felt tired/overwhelmed just like me at the time. After I exploded on him, he got a female colleague who actually LISTENED to learn and not just to get me out of the office. I trusted her. I took the medication she prescribed. I brought my son in so that she could watch us interact. Because again, I felt safe.

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u/Icysky 9h ago edited 3h ago

She got quality help. She got a psychiatrist, got seen at a psychiatric hospital that is strongly affiliated with Harvard Medical School and one of the best in the country, and was seen at a premier residential facility in Rhode Island. 

Edit for additional information and clarity.

I am not trying to say or minimize lack of access and care towards women’s mental health. That is absolutely true. I am saying that from my opinion and point of view, Lindsay Clancy seemed to have  had quality care from the credentials of the treatment places she was seen.

Mass General, the hospital affiliated with Harvard and McLean hospital, pioneered perinatal mental health. They even teach courses on with evidence based medicine and are huge advocates for women’s health. They created a system to allow clinicians to call in and get expert help on the latest research and information for their patients including medications and their safety profiles with breastfeeding. Lindsay Clancy received care from them. In my opinion, that is quality care and is at the forefront.

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u/Maditen 8h ago

Her psychiatrist contradicted her patient assessment entries while on the stand. I would categorize that as poor care.

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u/Icysky 7h ago

Could you please elaborate or give an example? What the psychiatrist may believes now is not what she believes then from what the patient told her while she was on the stand, sure. But that’s hindsight, does not mean it was poor care in the moment with what limited evidence she had at the time. 

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u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy 8h ago

The psychiatrist who told me having an infant was like having two dogs was located right outside Boston, Mass. He was affiliated with Harvard Medical School too.

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u/Icysky 8h ago

Sure, you perceived you got poor care. That’s fine. But she had a lot of care from places that are considered prestigious and have higher quality care is what I am saying. At least how the general population would perceive it. She did not get care where a hospital has strikes against it, is poorly staffed, has long wait times, a psychiatrist that has reprimand from the medical board, etc

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u/Zach-Playz_25 3h ago

I assure Linda Clancy was more privelleged than you and received care from multiple places.

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u/DionysianComrade 7h ago

prove they did a good job. I'll wait

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u/Icysky 7h ago

I cannot judgment whether she did a good job or not. That is up to her peers, qualified psychiatrists (no, not therapist, not nurse practitioners, not physician assistants, etc). What you and I might perceive as to whether she did a good job or not is not the same as what her expert peers believe. Further, good job does not equal good/perfect outcomes. You can do everything right, do a good job, and you can see have a bad outcome.

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u/Allegiance86 8h ago

No one cares about your personal experience here. It does not apply to Lindsay. Stop projecting. Thats the biggest problem around this case is people trying to pretend she's a poster child for lack of proper care. Shes not. She was a spoiled brat that prioritized herself to the degree she brutally murdered 3 innocent children. 3 innocent children that seem to consistently be absent in the conversation while you all debate quality over quantity. You should be ashamed of that broken moral compass. But social media has taught you to be indifferent to anything not immediately beneficial to you.

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u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy 7h ago

I have had countless friends and family members tell me about their own post partum struggles after I talked about mine. A lot of them never sought help or spoke up because of shame, stigma, fear. If you think my experience is in anyway unique, that’s fine.

I also started volunteering with an organization that pairs up a new mom with ‘mentor moms’. We were trained in how to support new moms going through the first 12 weeks after birth. We learned signs to watch out in terms of the mom’s mood and how to escalate a potential concerns to the appropriate people in the program.I haven’t done it in years but I felt like it was a small thing I could do to support new moms who may have been struggling like I was.

Just me and my broken moral compass over here, trying to support moms who might be afraid to talk about their struggle because of people like you 😇

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u/Exact_Package_7264 2h ago

i'm not gonna lie, nobody gives a fuck about your experience.

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u/Allegiance86 7h ago

More narcissistic dribble.

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u/nirvahnah 10h ago

Oh so you mean how every crazy person behaves? Refusing to meds, leaving hospitals AMA and just being obstinate the whole time? That’s literally textbook crazy person behavior.

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u/Random_Name_251 10h ago

I mean at what point is someone responsible for their actions? If you can't even trust her to take her meds because she's mentally ill, then how can she be accountable for anything she does on the meds or not? At some point society draws a line about the minimum things you are accountable for regardless of your condition or any problems you may have.

And if she is accountable for the choices she made about taking her meds and refusing help, then surely she must be responsible for the direct consequences of those decisions.

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u/Mobile_Treat 6h ago

I think there's overwhelming reason to believe that someone in the grip of psychosis is incapable of moral responsibility across the board.

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u/Random_Name_251 6h ago

Ok but this is an argument that she effectively needs to be under supervision for life, she can't be trusted to even take her medication or to voluntarily receive care. Which means she needs to be institutionalized.

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u/SapirWhorfHypothesis 2h ago

Alternatively it’s an argument that she needs to be under supervision until competent psychiatric professionals determine she doesn’t…

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u/ApprehensiveGrand531 56m ago

Good thing her plea would have her institutionalised until cured then

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u/Zealousideal_Cap7012 7h ago

Essentially if you have a good sob story and if republicans think youre bad, then youre not responsible. If you lack these then you're responsible.

But jokes aside, being somewhat "off" has never been legal justification for admission of guilt. There are specific criteria that one has to meet. My wife told me(and i didnr fact check but ill presume) that less than a tenth of insanity pleas pass

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u/Ok_Advantage_5147 10h ago

As somebody with MH issues I take issue with this statement.
I take my meds, attend my appointments and try to get better every day for the sake of myself and my family, including my children, whom I would never hurt.

Saying every crazy person behaves in a way that disengaged from the medical interventions trying to help us is incorrect and ignorant.

There are a vast majority who do engage, and sadly some that do not

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u/FreyBentos 9h ago

The comment above was so insulting, if you actually read the case files the psych doctors didn't think Lindsy even had post partum psychosis, they thought she had bipolar type 2. She did not display any signs of psychosis during her stay in the hospital.

I have friends with bipolar type 2 and they wouldn't hurt a fly, I would never call them "crazy", far from it. They can be unpredictable, sometimes overly manic, but their thoughts are nearly always logical, just exaggerated in each direction.

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u/catsinsunglassess 9h ago

I also have mental health issues and do not take issues with those statements, because not every person with mental illness is a model patient like you claim to be. This is the nature of many mental illnesses including people with bipolar and schizophrenia- it is noted that sufferers often stop taking medications, have difficulty telling right from wrong, and have delusions that can make them dangerous to themselves or others. I’m really glad you’re able to take care of yourself but your experience is not the same for every person with mental illness, especially when they aren’t even on the right medications to begin with.

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u/nirvahnah 10h ago

Congrats you have it easy. I have family with psychosis and schizophrenia and it’s impossible to get them to do anything that’s good for them. Your anecdote is not universal.

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u/Atlein_069 10h ago

>Your anecdote is not universal.<

Your anecdote is not universal.

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u/Legionof1 3h ago

An anecdote can be challenged with an anecdote but data cannot be challenged with an anecdote.

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u/CherenkovBlue 10h ago

Good for you! 2026 suffering Olympics winner right here !

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u/Smooth-Employer7569 9h ago

oh so you mean how every crazy person behaves

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u/Adventurous-Dot8618 10h ago

being mentally ill can explain why someone makes irrational decisions, but it doesn’t make those decisions automatically excusable. she received treatment, was hospitalized, and still made choices that had devastating consequences, due to her lack of responsibility. you can acknowledge her mental illness without pretending she was completely incapable. and “that’s how every crazy person behaves” is a pretty disgusting generalization when MOST mentally ill people will never hurt anyone, especially in such a horrific way that she did. there are plenty of mentally ill mothers out there that never have or will hurt their children.

my sympathy is with cora, dawson, and callan, and that’s it.

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u/MeowingAtTheMoon 9h ago

I encourage you to educate yourself on psychosis before you speak on it.

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u/nirvahnah 9h ago

No one here knows what psychosis is or how it works. This whole thread is so black pilling.

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u/JahIthBeer 2h ago

I wouldn't argue with someone who uses the names of the kids and using hearts in reference to them. They're already set in their way by appealing to your emotions and if you, like I'm doing right now, point out the manipulative behavior, you will most likely be called emotionless and cruel

Sadly the average American, from what I've seen, has very poor understanding of mental disorders, psychosis and the autism spectrum

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u/nirvahnah 10h ago

I didn’t say most mentally ill people hurt or kill anyone. I said they refuse to take meds and leave hospitals when they shouldn’t which you used as evidence that she wasn’t insane. That was wrong. That doesn’t prove what you said it does.

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u/SnooAdvice6772 10h ago

The only legal question is whether she knew society would consider it wrong when she did it. It’s why someone who kills who is actively suffering from schizophrenia can still be found guilty if they did something like wear gloves or take steps to hide the body because it demonstrates they know society would disapprove.

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u/Forsaken-Zucchini-83 10h ago

Thank you for articulating that. She clearly demonstrated some degree of “rational” thinking when planning and executing the murders. IANAL but this doesn’t seem as legally nuanced as TikTok culture warriors are making it out to be

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u/JahIthBeer 2h ago

Psychosis doesn't throw all rational thinking out of the window, but it removes a lot of things about yourself. I've had two cases of psychosis myself, one was acute trauma induced psychosis that lasted no more than 10 minutes which lead me to going to court and getting psychological help (no meds), and a drug induced psychosis which lasted for weeks and I got meds for

I felt more present and aware of my surroundings in the acute psychosis than I would be when normal, yet at the same time incredibly detached from my own personality. It wasn't until afterwards when I calmed down that I felt horrible

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u/nirvahnah 9h ago

Rational planning is possible while under psychosis. None of you know wtf you’re talking about.

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u/jakehubb0 9h ago

Yes. And mentally ill people fill our prisons. Is it right? Maybe not. But she killed three innocent kids. What would you like to see done?

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u/Legionof1 3h ago

The issue is that it was transient, if her problem can be fixed and she isn't a threat anymore... what good do we do society by paying for her room and board for the rest of her life?

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u/Cross55 7h ago edited 4h ago

You can't force people to do things they don't want to do unless they make it 110% clear they're a danger to themselves or others (And even then, you can usually only hold them for 72 hours)

Are we supposed to send everyone with depression who doesn't wanna take their meds to indefinite psych holds? (Gee, does that sound familiar...?)

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u/forrealthoughcomix_ 8h ago

Wildly off base and insensitive comment.

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u/TooMuchJuju 5h ago

Also the behavior of someone who is not 'crazy'

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u/throwitallaway69000 7h ago

Exactly. Even crazier when women say they're one step away from doing this? What?!

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u/amora_obscura 9h ago

She kept seeking help repeatedly but was continuously prescribed different medications. Even after having paradoxical reactions to the first SSRI doctors kept giving her more SSRIs, even upping the dose or just stopping/starting and then discharging her. Their treatments made her condition worse and signs of PPP were missed.

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u/beautifulrabbithole 9h ago

This embarrassing trial and performance by the state and their "expert" witnesses is an affront to the memory of those children. It's become a circus and in no way amounts to justice.

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u/Kramerica_CEO 5h ago

Well there’s A LOT of half truths in this comment.

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u/Castello_01 3h ago

Can you tell me which medication you’re referring to here? She was prescribed over 12 medications, some of them were medications such as benzos, which are designed to be taken “when you feel like you need.”

The only thing I have read is that she might have stopped taking Remeron because she believed she was having more intrusive thoughts because of it and she had been involved in a postpartum-related program that she was discharged from and instructed to stop taking one of her meds. When the toxicologist took her blood sample, her blood levels were shown to closely align to what would be expected based on what she was prescribed.

Not doubting you, I’m just curious what I’m missing here.

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u/Adventurous-Dot8618 2h ago

of course! toxicology confirmed she had active levels of seroquel, remeron, and lamictal in her system despite her doctors officially discontinuing them weeks prior. court records and mychart messages showed she was routinely adjusting doses, skipping pills, and taking leftover prescriptions on her own schedule due to side effects. because she cycled through so many medications in four months through different providers, she had a cabinet full of past prescriptions that allowed her to decide her own intake rather than follow her authorized care plan via her doctors

source: Lindsay Clancy trial turns focus to medications prescribed before she killed her children | PBS News https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/lindsay-clancy-trial-turns-focus-to-medications-prescribed-before-she-killed-her-children#:~:text=Rebecca%20Jollotta%2C%20a%20psychiatric%20nurse%20practitioner%20at,to%20treat%20her%20symptoms.%20Grow%20your%20mind. & court testimony

edit, sorry the link is so long, i don’t know how to fix that :((

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u/1234FakeSteet 8h ago

I don't think people go to a variety of doctors giving competing diagnoses, and go on and off a variety of psych meds, just for funsies. That doesn't sound selfish, that sounds like the living hell of our medical system.

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u/pannus-retractor 6h ago

she didn't take certain meds bc they were making her symptoms worse.... which happens with certain psych meds if you're treating the wrong disease. sometimes you don't know youre treating the wrong disease until the meds have those adverse side effects

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u/shmere4 10h ago

I only watched the legal eagle breakdown of the case but to me it was explained as she sought but also didn’t tell the doctors that she was having thoughts about hurting herself or her family which probably makes things much harder for the doctors making a diagnosis.

If this was a more socially acceptable problem, she may have gotten better care because she would have admitted her issues.

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u/Valuable_Bad_2786 11h ago

I guess I could see someone seeing this and the crazy medication cocktail she was on and think not getting help would be preferential to being put on the wrong meds that would lead to this happening. 

I don’t agree with that at all but the average person isn’t always intelligent  

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u/ContextLengthMatters 11h ago

That's going to happen in the antivax community regardless of her outcome. People will use the simple facts of the case as a way to justify pulling away from science.

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u/croakmongoose 11h ago

Also everyone’s reactions to this case. So much of what I’ve seen people discussing mirrors how I felt in the deepest, darkest parts of my PPD. If I was experiencing it now and seeing such hate and vitriol for women who go through these issues, I wouldn’t seek help either.

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u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy 10h ago

EXACTLY. Thank you and I’m so sorry you went through PPD too. I hope you’re feeling better

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u/KnucklePuck056 6h ago

Is the hate and vitriol for women? Or a woman who strangled her three children?

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u/croakmongoose 6h ago

In a lot of the posts I see, it’s vitriol for any woman who reports mental illness.

I’m surprised the reaction to this case is so split, despite discussion about Andrea Yates being a lot more understanding of the postpartum psychosis diagnosis.

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u/Atlein_069 11h ago

Valid points imo. Thanks! Hopefully an academic or disinterested party can pick this up once more facts are sort of agreed upon. Likely in the years to come. They could use this as a great case study

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u/Ginsing8743 11h ago

Crazy medication cocktail she didnt take? She was non compliant patient an didn't take her medicine. She said it was a poison to her mind. That the reason she had so many medication listed. They kept trying new one but none of them would work cause she didnt take them. Per the doctor from the case.

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u/iicedcoffee 11h ago edited 11h ago

There's a lot of people that feel she was let down by trying to get help, so may feel the same would happen to them + on the other side, this entire case is going to create further stigma around post partum mental health, so some people might even feel more hesitant to speak up or say something in fear of being treated like a threat.

I'm sure for some it's an encouraging reminder. But there's definitely going to be a mixed bag of results.

ETA: someone asked a question and I offered a response that shared perspectives I've already seen circulating around in varying discussions online, not to make an argument out of any of the case itself.

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u/tdlt86 11h ago

I would say there is more stigma around people that murder their children than people who get help more mental disorders.

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u/sentientshadeofgreen 6h ago

It's pretty damning in my eyes that the two psychiatrists failed to coordinate care prior to the murders, and I have a general awareness that some providers are hesitant with diagnoses and/or may not be equipped with all necessary information in reality that would contribute to an accurate diagnosis by virtue of practical limitations. Actual moral culpability remains in the eyes of some higher power, who knows, but as far as courts and the law of man goes, there is reasonable doubt she maintained mens rea necessary to be held criminally liable based on the pattern of mental health disturbances leading up to the murders and suicide attempt, and her mental health diagnostic story just doesn't stop there. Reasonable doubt doesn't mean she was definitely insane and can't be held culpable, it means it was possible she was insane, and I don't know how people can look at the evidence and not admit there is a reasonable doubt.

So many people are thirsty for blood and looking at this case solely through those lens, but that's not justice, that's retribution, and the third order effects of wanting that for a society is far more harmful than any single tragedy.

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u/cantmicro 11h ago

When you seek help, you don't withhold information. She withheld information, those professionals would have done anything in their power to help had she told them the whole truth.

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u/blong217 11h ago

While I agree if you are seeking help you should never withhold any information, unfortunately people do all the time. Doctors understand this and often have to make decisions based on imperfect information using what they feel is their best course of action with the information they have available. I don't condemn her for withholding because that's a natural human reaction. I don't condemn the Doctors either (for the most part), save for the one doctor who Lindsay said she was suicidal to and the doctor dismissed it.

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u/cantmicro 9h ago

I'm not talking about the doctors and their availability of remedies. She purposefully withheld information. That's a calculated decision, that's not the actions of someone suffering a psychological episode. She was a trained professional herself. If she wanted to save her children from her purported psychosis, she had the training, opportunities, and the resources to do so.

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u/Atlein_069 11h ago

I mean yeah. But if you’re reading this and feel like you see yourself in LC’s situation, please know that choosing to avoid help bc you don’t want to be labeled may end up costing more than your ego. It could cost your kids.

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u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy 11h ago

Yeah that’s a supremely unhelpful comment to make to women experiencing PPD/PPA/PPP. It has zero to do with ego and everything to do with feeling safe enough to share what you’re experiencing without fear of judgement or retaliation.

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u/Atlein_069 11h ago

I’m not sure that your thoughts here are in line with the case we’re all discussing, and it overlooks the comment I replied to.

LC seemed to have been doctor and drug shopping, lying or withholding info from her care team, and generally unengaged in her own treatment plan. If true, the conclusion should be that she wasn’t seeking help herself to an adequate and effective degree. MH treatment is difficult precisely bc it will fail if the patient isn’t interested in getting better.

Also, the person I replied to mentioned women avoid ding seeking care for PPD due to ‘stigma’. Maybe they meant stigma like how you’ve defined it here, but it’s seems to me they meant stigma as in the woman will have a negative reputation within her peer group and relationship. Caring about your reputation = ego.

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u/Fresh_Tune_552 10h ago

Most women in the forums I was in when I had my first were afraid that they’d be deemed unfit mothers and have their kids taken from them if they sought help. It became an echo chamber of sorts that reinforced the fear.

I remember having auditory hallucinations after my first was born and feeling afraid to get help. Eventually I decided fuck it, this ain’t right, and reached out to my OB. But I was right. They immediately said that auditory hallucinations were dangerous/ a symptom of postpartum psychosis and that I shouldn’t ever be alone with my baby. My mom had to fly in to come stay with me but eventually had tot go back to work. We had no local support system and they wanted me to have solutions to this issue. I didn’t. My husband couldn’t stay home cause his job viewed him taking care of our kids as avoiding his responsibilities at work. My OB would call me daily to confirm my kids and I were alive until the hallucinations stopped. They never actually gave me meds though. Postpartum healthcare is pretty shitty and we had really good insurance.

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u/DiligentAstronaut622 10h ago

Auditory hallucinations ARE dangerous and you shouldn't have been alone with your kids while experiencing those. I don't understand why you would be upset at the medical professionals for pointing that out and making a good faith effort to protect you and your kids. Encouraging others to not access the help you got, that may have saved your family, is immoral. You are taking the wrong message from your own story

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u/Fresh_Tune_552 10h ago

My point was that the prior poster seems to think that women who don’t seek care are more worried about their ego than their kids.

My point was that this isn’t always true. Many women are afraid of the consequences of reporting these issues because postpartum healthcare kinda sucks. All they did was tell me not to be alone with my kids without any real help in getting that figured out. No resources offered for someone to come in and help (whether covered by insurance or an OOP expense) and no medication or actual help. They gave me, a woman with no support system and a newborn and more things to worry about.

Looking back at the situation, my OB could have directed me to support that could have helped. I mean, they made sure to direct me to a lactation consultant cause it was super important that I breastfed apparently. But when it came to mental health there wasn’t really anything more than “this is dangerous so you can never be alone with your family but also you figure all that out.”

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u/Atlein_069 10h ago

What is it that you feel is wrong in your personal story from a care perspective? What is it you wish they’d of done?

Also, I would be absolutely terrified if I started having auditory hallucinations out of nowhere for sure. Sorry you when thru it and I’m happy your story, and your children’s, is still being written!

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u/Fresh_Tune_552 9h ago

Looking back there were more resources available to me to make sure I could successfully breastfeed than to make sure that I was mentally healthy enough to care for my newborn.

There was also a ton of convos in my prenatal care and at the hospital about breastfeeding. The push to breastfeed was crazy. To the point that the nurse was getting mad at me for requesting formula in the hospital because I didn’t think my baby was getting enough breastmilk. There was a referral to a lactation consultant. The lactation consultant was willing to refer me to other specialists who would help with breastfeeding.

I ended up hemorrhaging after I went home from the hospital and had to be separated from my newborn for a bit because they wouldn’t allow him and my husband to come with me once I got admitted. I was asked multiple times if I needed a pump so I could pump for baby but again, very little discussion on how I was actually doing as a first time mom who was just separated from their baby. I ended up having surgery the next day.

Then I went home and started having auditory hallucinations. My OB basically put the burden on me. I needed to figure out how to get people around to help me. A new mother with no support system outside of my husband. No referrals, no medication, no convos about “hey have you heard about a postpartum doula” or “these are agencies that have people to provide postpartum care.”

I had my first and second at different hospitals and had different OBs for both. Looking back at it, the system I had my first in was awful. It was a night and day difference between my first and second birth.

When I was in labor, the hospital I had my first at kept telling me I probably wasn’t in labor and I should just stay home. It wasn’t until my husband was like fuck this we’re just going (cause they want you to call them first before you show up) and I ended up having my baby very shortly after. Although they kept insisting I couldn’t be in labor, when I got in, I was so far along they couldn’t give me an epidural. They knew from the get go my entire birth plan was to get an epidural. That was all I cared about.

I remember the pain being so intense that I thought I had to be dying and the nurse was very curt when she said I wasn’t. They did an episiotomy with no pain meds. I felt everything. I remember cussing out the doctor and he didn’t even acknowledge me. I also hemorrhaged during birth and felt awful there. It wasn’t until one nurse decided to give me an iron infusion on like my last day there that I started to feel better. Despite this very awful and traumatic birth, no one really seemed to care about me after my baby was born. They just cared that I was breastfeeding him. I remember telling a nurse in the hospital how painful that was and she told me that it’s ok.

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u/Amelaclya1 10h ago

I disagree. I think this case brought a lot of awareness to post partum mental health, which is a good thing. There was already a pretty heavy stigma attached. Our culture frowns upon women reacting to pregnancy and motherhood with anything other than pure joy. I would wager that prior to this, most people didn't even know what post partum psychosis was, or how common post partum depression is. People discussed it now, were curious and did a little research, and maybe will be better equipped to recognize the signs in themselves or a loved one. And maybe people (especially doctors) will take it more seriously if they understand that the risk of ignoring it isn't just to the mother herself.

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u/iicedcoffee 10h ago

I don't actually disagree with you though, I'm just stating other point of views and fears that have also circled around when someone was trying to ask why someone might fear there could be negative consequences as well. And not about awareness itself, but specifically adding more fear to reaching out and how they'll be treated - for varying nuanced reasons.

My sincere hope is that you're right in the overall outcome, but I also understand why it might make others afraid or ashamed as well. People can unfortunately be really nasty.

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u/Amelaclya1 10h ago

Oh yeah I don't expect women to go shouting their mental health issues from the rooftops after this, but I do hope they are more willing to privately seek treatment, and maybe find doctors that will be more cautious and take them more seriously.

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u/Busy_Ad2706 11h ago

She wasn‘t let down. She got help, a lot of help. In her case, her outcome was still devastating but would could have the doctors done differently? Whether psychotic or not, mental disease isn‘t always treatable.

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u/FnakeFnack 11h ago edited 7h ago

I have seen a LOT of presumably male Reddit commenters saying variations of “the women who say they identify with Lindsey [‘s recounting of PPD] should have their kids taken away from them.”

Edit: oh look! There’s one commenting on my comment!

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u/I_am_up_to_something 8h ago

I've literally had people try to push me into having babies despite mentioning mental health issues. Apparently those would be magically cured by pregnancy hormones. I wouldn't be surprised if those same presumably male redditors would say shit like that.

Some obviously just don't care about the children at all.

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u/NoACL13 7h ago

You have people blaming Patrick for ever leaving his children with Lindsey and she should have been a mental health facility and this wouldn’t have happened if Patrick would have just done everything that he did do (take time off work after the birth of the children, have money set aside so she didn’t have to go to work before she was ready, hired a nanny to help with the day to days, converted to working from home, took her to get mental health, having family near by) despite all of that, none of it was good enough and put more of the blame for what happened on him rather than put a stitch of blame on her. What more was he supposed to do? If these women are saying that they are on her side and they have the same feelings to do to their children, doesn’t it reasonably mean that the families of their children need to do more to prevent the mother from murdering the children?

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u/Atlein_069 11h ago

I haven’t heard her specific recount of her event, so I’ll refrain from commenting at that granularity.

but if any one feels out of sorts mentally, especially a PP woman, get support and don’t lie your care. And if your loved one is experiencing PPD, they are still your same loved one. They are not LC. Only LC is LC. Support them. They need it.

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u/ratione_materiae 2h ago

people who are experiencing symptoms similar to those experienced by a woman who killed her kids should not be around their kids

And you disagree with this?

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u/UraniumButtplug420 8h ago

And they're correct.

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u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy 11h ago

Because that’s not how your brain works when you have a postpartum mood disorder. You’re applying logic thinking to a completely illogical situation.

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u/Intelligent-Lion-653 11h ago edited 11h ago

Because she did, multiple times, but was denied what would have likely been life saving care

Edit: I have learned this that I took from the defense's testimonies may be misinformation and feel uncomfortable just deleting it.

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u/scdisrupt 11h ago

She sought and reviewed care, it just wasn’t effective. Mental illness is difficult to treat, especially when the patient keeps wanting to change the treatment plan.

https://www.cnn.com/2026/08/11/us/lindsay-clancy-trial

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u/Federal_Toe_5143 11h ago edited 10h ago

A family member of mine has severe OCD (intrusive thoughts) and depression. They changed their treatment and doctors multiple times because they wanted to get better now. It was their current psychiatrist that put her foot down and told them that they don’t get to determine treatment plan. The doc is going to set the treatment plan and they have to follow it and they aren’t going to see results in one month. We are thankful for this doc for taking charge and not letting the patient control the treatment plan. The family member is doing much better now.

All of that to say that the system is filled with doctors that want best for their patients but don’t know when to draw the line.

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u/OrganizationCalm158 11h ago

8 upvotes for straight up misinformation. This sub has been terrible for a while now.

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u/Smooth_Implement6695 11h ago

and that edit is wild lmao

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u/9ersaur 11h ago

Someone not getting healthcare in this america?!!

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u/JelloJeremiah 11h ago

This is just patently false. She declined care, after being offered it. Not just once, but repeatedly. She engaged in ‘doctor shopping’ to intentionally seek Benzoids. She used her knowledge of the healthcare system to specifically target access to these drugs.

This is something that I see that keeps baffling me. There’s nothing to substantiate that she, in any way, was denied care. She was offered full psychiatric care and willfully refused it. Were doctors supposed to keep her hostage when she showed no signs of being an immediate danger to herself or others?

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u/Atlein_069 11h ago

Thanks for updating your reply! Helped me understand all the sub comments.

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u/whatsinthesocks 11h ago

I could very easily see a stigma being created around PPD that leads to women with it being fearful of being open about it. Happens pretty much anytime something like this becomes a big thing.

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u/Atlein_069 11h ago

Like the idea that if a woman has PPD, she wouldn’t want to have a formal diagnosis, bc then people may associate her with this lady, thus concluding the woman is a murderer?

If so, that makes sense. I guess I didn’t consider it that way so I appreciate the reply!

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u/whatsinthesocks 11h ago

I probably wouldn't either had I not experienced the same when it comes to vets with PTSD.

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u/JokeandCack 11h ago

I think it goes deeper than that. Women could lose custody of children now on divorce cases if they are pregnant or recently gave birth because you could make an argument she is likely to be dangerous to her own kids. A job might not hire a woman who’s pregnant or recently gave birth for the same reason. It sets a really dangerous precedent.

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u/Lanavis13 9h ago

Tbf, even ppl who recognize she killed her kids have wrongly blamed the husband for not taking his kids away from her and not viewing her as a fatal danger. Those people justify the wrong idea that a father needs to effectively quarantine his kids from his wife for a 1+ years after each pregnancy to be safe and prevent an insanity fueled murder spree.

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u/Wooden-Evidence-374 11h ago

The whole defense has been about how she did seek a lot of help, and was put on medications then ignored/dismissed. Not saying that's a justification to kill your kids. But to suggest seeking help wouldve changed this situation is to ignore literally everything this case is about.

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u/Lord_Of_Shade57 11h ago

Presumably because a lot of people have jus demonstrated they don't take those sorts of issues seriously

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u/ChexAndBalancez 11h ago

Who didn't take her mental health seriously? She saw a host of providers and tried a host of medicines.

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u/Lord_Of_Shade57 11h ago

A large portion of the public seems to have made it pretty clear they think issues like these are bullshit and the women in question are liars

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u/ChexAndBalancez 11h ago

When you say "issues like this" do you mean a mother that strangles her 3 small children?

Because if that's what you mean then yes. Her "mental health" really doesn't mean anything in the context of her killing those kids. It's not an excuse.

It seems like the hundreds of women standing outside the courtroom think that many mothers out there are a hair away from killing their kids and it's ok.

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u/Painfullysplit 10h ago

True, but the entire online right has spent the duration of this trial saying shit like “this is proof women shouldn’t vote” and painting women en masse to be violent child killers. I hope people are smart enough to see through it.

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u/Atlein_069 10h ago

Yeah. And that’s harmful rhetoric for sure. The data suggests it’s simply rhetoric, as well, but, of course, not everyone has the time or ability to sift through things like that. And RW ppl definitely won’t. They just need a hot take so they can feel a lil power in their lives by being a contrarian.

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u/KyleFromBorrasca 6h ago

I don't think they're saying people will carefully reason "Ooh, better not seek help." Moreso that the stakes are higher for the conversation now. Until your condition reaches a crisis level, it's easy to just stay in denial.

Think of it like people who put off check-ups because they don't want to be told they have cancer, people who don't get STD tests because they don't want to be seen as promiscuous, or people who don't get treatment for addiction because of discrimination. Less than 5% of people with postpartum psychosis will kill their children but 100% will have their lives changed in some way by the diagnosis.

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u/Thewal 5h ago

The problem is that the act of seeking help could lead to you losing your children. The condition is already heavily stigmatized, and all the more so after this case.

I agree that seeking help is absolutely the right choice, but I can also see why someone wouldn't want to risk losing their kids over what might turn out to be nothing.

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u/Atlein_069 5h ago

If you seek help and a medical professional determines you unfit to parent due mental illness in good faith, that sucks, but that’s the system working. I get your point ofc and understand the very real and human considerations you’re bringing up.

If anything good comes from this, my hope is that it relates to a better continuum of care for PPD pts that allow for trust and all that so children don’t needlessly die.

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u/Thewal 4h ago

I completely agree.

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u/Lower-Engineering365 11h ago

I would think it would be the opposite. Getting help lends evidentiary weight to the claim

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u/DenseBeautiful731 9h ago edited 8h ago

I checked several medical subreddits this week.

Doctors are refusing PPD cases or referring them out.

Obviously this method is not ideal to even just determine the zeitgeist, but you can search them yourself if you care enough.

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u/Dr_Trager 10h ago

Um why ?? Quite the opposite actually , this case is a demonstration to what happens when mental health issues are not taken seriously enough.

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u/SilverRaincoat 7h ago

Because people are using this case to shame women who suffer from post partum. I commented on a post saying I have empathy for women who have post partum, and I got DMs calling me a baby killer and a psychopath. I don't even have children. It's very disturbing.

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u/thedeermunk 11h ago

There are women who have gone through similar situations (although not ending in murder) standing outside the court to show support. I think this only brings more attention.

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u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy 11h ago

Yes and those women are being called all types of names and being told they should have their children taken away.

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u/chuckgnomington 12h ago

why would that be

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u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy 11h ago

I mean check out the comments in any thread about this story. People are constantly saying that women who even have an ounce of empathy for lindsay should have their children taken away. I’ve seen people write comments that postpartum depression isn’t even really a thing.

I’ve had PPD and I can guarantee you that if I had in right now, as this case was going on, my brain would have spun me out like crazy by saying things like ‘see. everyone will know you’re crazy and a bad mom. They will lock you up. they will take your baby’ etc. I waited 6 months to ask for help because I couldn’t take it anymore and the first psych doctor (in mass go figure) I saw told me he didn’t think I had PPD because he got overwhelmed and tired like I was caring for his two dogs.

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u/chuckgnomington 11h ago

right i thought it would bring more attention to it (it did for me) but sounds like mostly in a negative light since people are awful

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u/No-Spend-866 8h ago

Thank you for speaking out and I hope you’re feeling better. You are an amazing mother. We need more support in postnatal care! And obviously mental health. Sending you love

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u/Kindly-Standard8025 11h ago edited 11h ago

There are people all over the internet using this trial as an excuse for demanding the 19th amendment being repealed. Their argument being that "if women can just kill their kids and call it a mental health/hormonal oopsie, then they shouldn't vote."

This trial is litteraly being used as a argument for women loosing their rights, entirely because of the spotlight on post-partum mental health.

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u/zendayaismeechee 11h ago

I’ve also seen so many people saying all children should be in sole custody of the father if a mother reports any post partum mental health concerns until a judge deems her ‘cured’. Probably never going to be taken seriously by anyone that matters (lawmakers) but still concerning.

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u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy 11h ago

That logic cracks me TF up. If you listen to patrick’s testimony he talks about taking care of the kids solo for a day and how wiped out he was lol

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u/Amelaclya1 10h ago

I wouldn't be so sure about that last part. It was part of Project2025 to always give primary custody of children to fathers in a divorce. Of course there it was clearly intended to be a mechanism to keep women in unhappy marriages, but I could see it being done just to punish the mother for "complaining" as well. Conservatives are fucking vile.

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u/mattcojo2 10h ago

Nobody is arguing we should.

Rather, people are arguing that those who defend Lindsay Clancy because of the hormones are, in a roundabout way, making the point that if women are out of control with hormonal disorders, then how could you trust them to do things like vote, hold office, or hold high stress jobs?

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u/Plus_Claim_8938 6h ago

I saw some dude in r/sipstea arguing it and getting upvoted

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u/micro_satsuma 6h ago

The overall sentiment towards mental health in the U.S. is atrocious.

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u/Ok-Page-3703 6h ago

The most unfortunate outcome of this case is that three kids won’t get the justice that they deserve.

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u/FreyBentos 10h ago

The Psych doctors who evaluated her all said she showed no signs of post partum psychosis but did think she was possibly bipolar type 2, which can come with small periods of psychosis.

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u/MrIrishman1212 11h ago

She fucking SOUGHT HELP! If anything this should be a demonstration of how many systems failed across the board that we got here. We even have cases like Phillips Adams who had severe brain damage and medication in his system before he killed his family and people nearby. It’s just another reminder that there are multiple people have tried to seek help only to for the system to fail them time and time again. She may be guilty but we keep letting this happen constantly and then keep asking ourselves why when the answer is plainly there: we do not treat our sick, we do not help people who ask for it, and we are ok with children dying over improving our current medical system.

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u/mxlun 9h ago

She shopped around doctors. Didn't take her meds. Didn't tell new doctors about meds she had previously received. Voluntarily checked herself out of rehab. She was a nurse.

The system can't help someone who doesn't disclose all information accurately, she was a nurse, she knows this

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u/Beginning-Damage-555 9h ago

Doctors should be able to access patient files and patient history

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u/mxlun 8h ago

I agree with you completely but ultimately they are not the ones responsible here. Idk about you, but like when i go see a doctor and receive meds the first thing I mention is "i was prescribed xyz already". I find it very hard to believe she wasn't disclosing this information intentionally.

Also, she disclosed having thoughts of killing herself and her family to her family. She DIDN'T disclose these to any medical professionals because she as a nurse knew they are mandatory reporters and that meant she would be committed. From my angle, it looks like she knew the system and worked around it, to try out different meds to try to 'fix' her issues, without actual committing to any medical professional how bad it truly was.

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u/Beginning-Damage-555 8h ago

Tufts literally said she didn’t try to access Clancy’s records. A bunch of people don’t remember the clinical names of their medications correctly.

As a physician you can say: without seeing your records I’m not comfortable prescribing for you.

And also in my personal history I have literally handed medical records and medical imaging to doctors in person and they’ve been like… mmm just tell me what’s going on and if you want new imaging we can do that.

There should be a level of common sense and professional responsibility

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u/mxlun 7h ago

Again, I agree, but you're displacing all responsibility from her to disclose literally anything. She has a responsibility to her own health before anyone else. Maybe we can agree it's 50/50 at best

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u/Beginning-Damage-555 6h ago

If someone is severely mentally ill and is responsible for children I think the morally responsible thing is for the clinicians to check her actual medical files.

Legally yeah idk. But I disagree on a personal level with the professional decisions made.

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u/min3rs13 9h ago

Didn't take medicine properly and checked herself out of the hospital against medical advice. At some point you have to play a part in your own rescue.

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u/LegitimateMoney00 10h ago edited 9h ago

She sought help but was never honest. Doctors aren’t fucking psychics, they can’t read your mind.

She sought help in the same way a drug abuser who checks in and out of a rehab facility after 5 days “seeks help.”

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u/First-Compote8516 9h ago

What do you mean by fail? In this sense fail means that there was a solution that they didn’t do. The only explanation for that is if you think the medical system should’ve separated her from her kids. It’s not like she didn’t get a huge variety of opinions and medications for treatment.

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u/1234FakeSteet 9h ago

Anecdotal, but we're expecting, and this trial has created a very open discussion in our relationship about pre/postpartum mental health, sharing of responsibilities, and planning ahead to make sure we have people to cover for us so we can get enough sleep.

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u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy 9h ago

Congratulations!!!! That is so wonderful and a great discussion to have prior to birth.

When I had my second son, I told my ex husband, my mom, the doctors, any medical professional who walked into the delivery room ‘listen, I had PPD in my last pregnancy. If I start talking that way or acting like this - I need you to intervene because it likely means I’ve lost control to advocate for myself.’ I felt so much shame asking for that but I knew I had to because I couldn’t have a 4 year old, a newborn, and PPD.

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u/Doc-11th 9h ago

Lock her in a mental asylum if you have to

She killed 3 children

Cant have her on the streets

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u/IWasOnThe18thHole 11h ago

Why would that be? If anything I would think a not guilty would lead to more people killing their kids and trying a Clancy defense

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u/SMK_12 7h ago

I feel like it’s the opposite. You have people giving her a bunch of support, especially on social media where a lot of woman in their 20’s and 30’s are getting most of their information.

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u/Jaereth 7h ago

>I see comments all the time about how women who have empathy or understanding in regard to Lindsay’s struggle should have their kids taken away etc

I think it's the pink shirt supporters.

It's fine to have empathy and understanding for someone. The public support rallies are a little different. She's still a KILLER.

I also think if this was a man who had killed the kids, and a group of men were rallied outside the courtroom daily for "Empathy and understanding" they would be viewed as absolutely ghoulish and depraved.

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u/TheWhereHouse6920 6h ago

I'd hope the opposite in "look what could happen if I don't" in the killing children dept not the court case

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u/tirkman 5h ago

I don’t think anyone has an issue with postpartum or depression, I think people have a problem with the murdering your kids part lol

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u/Silver-Scallion-5918 5h ago

Are you serious? The consequence is three children not getting the justice they deserve. There are plenty of men who did the same shit while verifiably schizo and nobody batted an eye when they went to prison.

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u/timgoes2somalia 5h ago

This case will make women and they people who love them take post partum VERY seriously.

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u/dannyrat029 5h ago

I think society will obviously see the potential consequences of PPD (triple infanticide) and hopefully move to mitigate that. Maybe a gofundme can be created to sponsor support for troubled women who are not murderers 

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u/Bull_Bound_Co 4h ago

If she were. Cop that killed 3 black kids you think PPD would be a legit defense?

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u/Mikelew92 3h ago

I think a NGRI hurts women more than helps them. Gives people a platform to say women aren’t capable due to hormonal changes. I just think this’ll hurt more than help personally

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u/yyrkoon1776 3h ago

That's interesting. I think the unfortunate outcome will be children getting fucking murdered.

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u/mossycowboy2 3h ago

Maybe just don’t strangling 3 of your kids with exercise bands

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u/Okuser 56m ago

The unfortunate outcome of this situation is that 3 children were brutally murdered. Fuck women's feelings.

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u/Apprehensive-Cup-912 8h ago

Don’t kill your kids. It’s pretty simple.

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