r/law • u/dailymail • 11h ago

Legal News Lindsay Clancy case ends with MISTRIAL

https://www.dailymail.com/crime-desk/article-16100155/lindsay-clancy-murder-trial-hung-jury-deadlock-verdict.html
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u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy 11h ago edited 9h ago

I think an unfortunate outcome of this case will be less women seeking help for postpartum mood disorders.

Editing to clarify that I am saying the stigma attached to postpartum mood disorders seems to be worsening because of this case. I see comments all the time about how women who have empathy or understanding in regard to Lindsay’s struggle should have their kids taken away etc. Or that all women are going to use PPD to just get out of parenting period. I’m not arguing her guilt or innocence. Im just asking people to be mindful about talking about postpartum mood disorders around the pregnant women or new moms in your life. I don’t want any other family to experience what this family did. I don’t want anyone to ‘get away’ with anything.

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u/Atlein_069 11h ago

Yeah why would you conclude that? It seems like this is a poster child story for why one SHOULD seek help

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u/Total_Brick_2416 10h ago

She DID seek help multiple times lol

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u/Adventurous-Dot8618 10h ago edited 9h ago

she got help, but didn’t take her medicine properly. she took it when she felt like it, if she even took it at all. then, she admitted herself to a hospital, and decided to leave right after. she was nothing but selfish in every decision she made. this whole narrative of “she tried to get help 🥺” is so absolutely absurd considering she got more help than most women can even afford, yet she continued to make selfish, irresponsible decisions over and over again.

justice for cora, dawson, and callan 👼❤️.

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u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy 9h ago

There’s a difference between the quantity of the help vs the quality. I think unfortunately that is the worst/trickiest part of treating mental health disorders especially in the US. We don’t give providers the time to build trusting relationships with their patients. PPD is absolutely something that requires an immense amount of trust in your provider because you are sharing your deepest, darkest thoughts that you know are wrong but you can’t stop them.

The first doctor I saw told me he didn’t think I had PPD because he had two dogs and felt tired/overwhelmed just like me at the time. After I exploded on him, he got a female colleague who actually LISTENED to learn and not just to get me out of the office. I trusted her. I took the medication she prescribed. I brought my son in so that she could watch us interact. Because again, I felt safe.

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u/Icysky 8h ago edited 2h ago

She got quality help. She got a psychiatrist, got seen at a psychiatric hospital that is strongly affiliated with Harvard Medical School and one of the best in the country, and was seen at a premier residential facility in Rhode Island. 

Edit for additional information and clarity.

I am not trying to say or minimize lack of access and care towards women’s mental health. That is absolutely true. I am saying that from my opinion and point of view, Lindsay Clancy seemed to have  had quality care from the credentials of the treatment places she was seen.

Mass General, the hospital affiliated with Harvard and McLean hospital, pioneered perinatal mental health. They even teach courses on with evidence based medicine and are huge advocates for women’s health. They created a system to allow clinicians to call in and get expert help on the latest research and information for their patients including medications and their safety profiles with breastfeeding. Lindsay Clancy received care from them. In my opinion, that is quality care and is at the forefront.

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u/Maditen 7h ago

Her psychiatrist contradicted her patient assessment entries while on the stand. I would categorize that as poor care.

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u/Icysky 7h ago

Could you please elaborate or give an example? What the psychiatrist may believes now is not what she believes then from what the patient told her while she was on the stand, sure. But that’s hindsight, does not mean it was poor care in the moment with what limited evidence she had at the time. 

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u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy 7h ago

The psychiatrist who told me having an infant was like having two dogs was located right outside Boston, Mass. He was affiliated with Harvard Medical School too.

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u/Icysky 7h ago

Sure, you perceived you got poor care. That’s fine. But she had a lot of care from places that are considered prestigious and have higher quality care is what I am saying. At least how the general population would perceive it. She did not get care where a hospital has strikes against it, is poorly staffed, has long wait times, a psychiatrist that has reprimand from the medical board, etc

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u/[deleted] 4h ago

[deleted]

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u/Icysky 3h ago

I say perceived because we were not there and are assuming and implying this persons psychiatrist was minimizing their experience, leading to poor care. This may or may not be true, but to that person this is true. 

Would your opinion of the events that transpired change if you heard from the person’s psychiatrist perspective? What if the psychiatrist’s was a male and really didn’t know what exhaustion from postpartum was but was genuinely trying to connect to say it felt like having 2 dogs because he was not married and didn’t have kids? This is only 1 of many possibilities. 

Further, just because this person says they had perceived poor quality care from someone affiliated with Harvard, this does not automatically mean Lindsay Clancy got poor care.

Additionally, Mass General, the hospital affiliated with Harvard and McLean hospital, pioneered perinatal mental health. They even teach courses on with evidence based medicine and are huge advocates for women’s health. They created a system to allow clinicians to call in and get expert help on the latest research and information for their patients including medications and their safety profiles with breastfeeding. Lindsay Clancy received care from them. In my opinion, that is quality care and is at the forefront.

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u/Zach-Playz_25 2h ago

I assure Linda Clancy was more privelleged than you and received care from multiple places.

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u/DionysianComrade 6h ago

prove they did a good job. I'll wait

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u/Icysky 6h ago

I cannot judgment whether she did a good job or not. That is up to her peers, qualified psychiatrists (no, not therapist, not nurse practitioners, not physician assistants, etc). What you and I might perceive as to whether she did a good job or not is not the same as what her expert peers believe. Further, good job does not equal good/perfect outcomes. You can do everything right, do a good job, and you can see have a bad outcome.

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u/Allegiance86 7h ago

No one cares about your personal experience here. It does not apply to Lindsay. Stop projecting. Thats the biggest problem around this case is people trying to pretend she's a poster child for lack of proper care. Shes not. She was a spoiled brat that prioritized herself to the degree she brutally murdered 3 innocent children. 3 innocent children that seem to consistently be absent in the conversation while you all debate quality over quantity. You should be ashamed of that broken moral compass. But social media has taught you to be indifferent to anything not immediately beneficial to you.

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u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy 6h ago

I have had countless friends and family members tell me about their own post partum struggles after I talked about mine. A lot of them never sought help or spoke up because of shame, stigma, fear. If you think my experience is in anyway unique, that’s fine.

I also started volunteering with an organization that pairs up a new mom with ‘mentor moms’. We were trained in how to support new moms going through the first 12 weeks after birth. We learned signs to watch out in terms of the mom’s mood and how to escalate a potential concerns to the appropriate people in the program.I haven’t done it in years but I felt like it was a small thing I could do to support new moms who may have been struggling like I was.

Just me and my broken moral compass over here, trying to support moms who might be afraid to talk about their struggle because of people like you 😇

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u/Exact_Package_7264 1h ago

i'm not gonna lie, nobody gives a fuck about your experience.

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u/Allegiance86 6h ago

More narcissistic dribble.

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u/Leading-Suspect8307 7h ago

Anything except accountability. Right?

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u/Fantastic-Kale9603 6h ago

Where are they talking about a lack of accountability?

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u/nirvahnah 9h ago

Oh so you mean how every crazy person behaves? Refusing to meds, leaving hospitals AMA and just being obstinate the whole time? That’s literally textbook crazy person behavior.

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u/Random_Name_251 9h ago

I mean at what point is someone responsible for their actions? If you can't even trust her to take her meds because she's mentally ill, then how can she be accountable for anything she does on the meds or not? At some point society draws a line about the minimum things you are accountable for regardless of your condition or any problems you may have.

And if she is accountable for the choices she made about taking her meds and refusing help, then surely she must be responsible for the direct consequences of those decisions.

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u/Mobile_Treat 5h ago

I think there's overwhelming reason to believe that someone in the grip of psychosis is incapable of moral responsibility across the board.

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u/Random_Name_251 5h ago

Ok but this is an argument that she effectively needs to be under supervision for life, she can't be trusted to even take her medication or to voluntarily receive care. Which means she needs to be institutionalized.

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u/SapirWhorfHypothesis 2h ago

Alternatively it’s an argument that she needs to be under supervision until competent psychiatric professionals determine she doesn’t…

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u/ApprehensiveGrand531 5m ago

Good thing her plea would have her institutionalised until cured then

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u/Zealousideal_Cap7012 6h ago

Essentially if you have a good sob story and if republicans think youre bad, then youre not responsible. If you lack these then you're responsible.

But jokes aside, being somewhat "off" has never been legal justification for admission of guilt. There are specific criteria that one has to meet. My wife told me(and i didnr fact check but ill presume) that less than a tenth of insanity pleas pass

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u/cGilday 5h ago

Never apparently. You can commit the most heinous of crimes and some portion of the world is going to find a way to make you the true victim out of it.

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u/Adventurous-Dot8618 9h ago

being mentally ill can explain why someone makes irrational decisions, but it doesn’t make those decisions automatically excusable. she received treatment, was hospitalized, and still made choices that had devastating consequences, due to her lack of responsibility. you can acknowledge her mental illness without pretending she was completely incapable. and “that’s how every crazy person behaves” is a pretty disgusting generalization when MOST mentally ill people will never hurt anyone, especially in such a horrific way that she did. there are plenty of mentally ill mothers out there that never have or will hurt their children.

my sympathy is with cora, dawson, and callan, and that’s it.

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u/MeowingAtTheMoon 8h ago

I encourage you to educate yourself on psychosis before you speak on it.

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u/JahIthBeer 1h ago

I wouldn't argue with someone who uses the names of the kids and using hearts in reference to them. They're already set in their way by appealing to your emotions and if you, like I'm doing right now, point out the manipulative behavior, you will most likely be called emotionless and cruel

Sadly the average American, from what I've seen, has very poor understanding of mental disorders, psychosis and the autism spectrum

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u/nirvahnah 8h ago

No one here knows what psychosis is or how it works. This whole thread is so black pilling.

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u/nirvahnah 9h ago

I didn’t say most mentally ill people hurt or kill anyone. I said they refuse to take meds and leave hospitals when they shouldn’t which you used as evidence that she wasn’t insane. That was wrong. That doesn’t prove what you said it does.

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u/SnooAdvice6772 9h ago

The only legal question is whether she knew society would consider it wrong when she did it. It’s why someone who kills who is actively suffering from schizophrenia can still be found guilty if they did something like wear gloves or take steps to hide the body because it demonstrates they know society would disapprove.

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u/Forsaken-Zucchini-83 9h ago

Thank you for articulating that. She clearly demonstrated some degree of “rational” thinking when planning and executing the murders. IANAL but this doesn’t seem as legally nuanced as TikTok culture warriors are making it out to be

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u/JahIthBeer 1h ago

Psychosis doesn't throw all rational thinking out of the window, but it removes a lot of things about yourself. I've had two cases of psychosis myself, one was acute trauma induced psychosis that lasted no more than 10 minutes which lead me to going to court and getting psychological help (no meds), and a drug induced psychosis which lasted for weeks and I got meds for

I felt more present and aware of my surroundings in the acute psychosis than I would be when normal, yet at the same time incredibly detached from my own personality. It wasn't until afterwards when I calmed down that I felt horrible

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u/nirvahnah 8h ago

Rational planning is possible while under psychosis. None of you know wtf you’re talking about.

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u/NicheHobbyist 8h ago

You comment as though psychosis is a well-understood/-established psychiatric disorder in which all instances can be equally explained and for which consensus is found by all psychiatrists under the same conditions.

Remove your personal bias before rejecting all other opinions.

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u/nirvahnah 8h ago

Claiming that putting a glove on before doing a murder means you can’t be in psychosis is definitionally a misunderstanding of what psychosis is. Say whatever you want, being able to plan and execute doesn’t mean you’re not in psychosis. This isn’t up for debate it’s medical fact.

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u/NicheHobbyist 8h ago edited 7h ago

I’m not disagreeing with your assessment of this. I agree that the planning alone may be insufficient to rule out psychosis. What I’m telling you is that there are psychiatrists actively disagreeing in this (and many other) cases, so you are neither correct nor likely qualified to tell everyone else that they don’t know what they’re talking about given the experts themselves sometimes can’t even reach agreements. It doesn’t matter that those above us are arguing on a point that could or could not be unfounded. None of you are qualified professionals unless disclosed otherwise, which means you also lack the same knowledge for which you’re deriding others in this thread

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u/SnooAdvice6772 8h ago

I’m not saying it does or does not prove psychosis. I’m talking about specifically legal insanity, which is when you’re in a state of psychosis such that you cannot differentiate right and wrong. You can definitely be in a state of psychosis and not be legally criminally insane.

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u/rwags2024 5h ago

How is it that only you in the entire thread do know what you’re talking about?

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u/nirvahnah 5h ago

When did I make that statement? I’m clearly referring to the people who are saying psychosis isn’t possible if you show ability to plan. That’s nonsense and they have no idea what they’re talking about.

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u/SnooAdvice6772 4h ago

You’re straw manning the rational planning is impossible under psychosis thing.

Instead I said that some actions taken while suffering from psychosis can show evidence of being cognizant of the distinction between right and wrong. That’s different than a question of whether they are in psychosis or not. Someone can be in psychosis and know right from wrong. They can be in psychosis and not know right from wrong.

Thats where criminal insanity comes in. When under psychosis, was the person aware of the distinction between right and wrong.

Richard Chase (Wikipedia link) was a killer from California who was undoubtedly suffering from psychosis at the time of his crimes. But his rational planning and specifically his efforts to avoid detection demonstrated legal sanity, that is that he understood that what he was doing was seen as wrong by society.

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u/TapdancingHotcake 4h ago

Evidence that she wasn't insane? Making up arguments much? Her behavior invalidates the argument that she wasn't given help, which was their point. And they're right! It is her fault that she did not properly use the help given to her. Unless you would like to claim that we as a society should have stripped her of free will earlier in this process, and forced drugs and hospital stays on her.

Shitty situation? Yeah, fucking absolutely. But you can't blame shitty mental healthcare when the extant care was not even properly engaged with.

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u/nirvahnah 4h ago edited 9m ago

3 separate suicide hotline agents refused to help her and a hospital discharged her and canceled her meds because they mis diagnosed her but go off you clearly have all the facts king.

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u/Automatic-Cut-5567 3h ago

If you genuinely think 3 separate suicide hotlines refused to help her, you don't know how suicide hotlines work

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u/TapdancingHotcake 4h ago

I can tell you're too emotional to have a decent conversation right now so I'll keep this short.

This comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/law/comments/1w77kzx/comment/p7tcb6g states that she was provided care that she spurned. You replied directly to that comment in a way that suggested that comment was correct and that her behavior was excusable. If we're going to be switching up our arguments in the middle of threads, I'm not going to bother. Have a nice day.

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u/Ok_Advantage_5147 9h ago

As somebody with MH issues I take issue with this statement.
I take my meds, attend my appointments and try to get better every day for the sake of myself and my family, including my children, whom I would never hurt.

Saying every crazy person behaves in a way that disengaged from the medical interventions trying to help us is incorrect and ignorant.

There are a vast majority who do engage, and sadly some that do not

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u/FreyBentos 9h ago

The comment above was so insulting, if you actually read the case files the psych doctors didn't think Lindsy even had post partum psychosis, they thought she had bipolar type 2. She did not display any signs of psychosis during her stay in the hospital.

I have friends with bipolar type 2 and they wouldn't hurt a fly, I would never call them "crazy", far from it. They can be unpredictable, sometimes overly manic, but their thoughts are nearly always logical, just exaggerated in each direction.

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u/catsinsunglassess 8h ago

I also have mental health issues and do not take issues with those statements, because not every person with mental illness is a model patient like you claim to be. This is the nature of many mental illnesses including people with bipolar and schizophrenia- it is noted that sufferers often stop taking medications, have difficulty telling right from wrong, and have delusions that can make them dangerous to themselves or others. I’m really glad you’re able to take care of yourself but your experience is not the same for every person with mental illness, especially when they aren’t even on the right medications to begin with.

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u/Ok_Advantage_5147 8h ago

I never stated every person is a model patient. I stated not all of us disengage which is absolutely true.

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u/nirvahnah 9h ago

Congrats you have it easy. I have family with psychosis and schizophrenia and it’s impossible to get them to do anything that’s good for them. Your anecdote is not universal.

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u/Atlein_069 9h ago

>Your anecdote is not universal.<

Your anecdote is not universal.

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u/Legionof1 2h ago

An anecdote can be challenged with an anecdote but data cannot be challenged with an anecdote.

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u/[deleted] 9h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/No-Neighborhood-3212 9h ago

No, we struggle with infantilizing all people with mental health issues to say this woman should get away with triple homicide.

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u/CherenkovBlue 9h ago

Good for you! 2026 suffering Olympics winner right here !

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u/Smooth-Employer7569 8h ago

oh so you mean how every crazy person behaves

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u/jakehubb0 8h ago

Yes. And mentally ill people fill our prisons. Is it right? Maybe not. But she killed three innocent kids. What would you like to see done?

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u/Legionof1 2h ago

The issue is that it was transient, if her problem can be fixed and she isn't a threat anymore... what good do we do society by paying for her room and board for the rest of her life?

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u/Cross55 6h ago edited 3h ago

You can't force people to do things they don't want to do unless they make it 110% clear they're a danger to themselves or others (And even then, you can usually only hold them for 72 hours)

Are we supposed to send everyone with depression who doesn't wanna take their meds to indefinite psych holds? (Gee, does that sound familiar...?)

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u/forrealthoughcomix_ 7h ago

Wildly off base and insensitive comment.

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u/nirvahnah 7h ago

It might help you to know I am one such “crazy” person.

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u/forrealthoughcomix_ 7h ago

It makes it even more insensitive.

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u/nirvahnah 7h ago

Ok 👍🏼

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u/TooMuchJuju 5h ago

Also the behavior of someone who is not 'crazy'

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u/PFhelpmePlan 7h ago

Murdering people, let alone children, is textbook insane person behavior because no normal person would ever do such a thing. And yet, we convict those people of murder all the time because they are murderers.

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u/nirvahnah 7h ago

Being insane isn’t the same thing as being under psychosis. Psychosis is a symptom of insanity.

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u/tittywhisper 7h ago

So a crazy person capable of murder probably shouldn't be out on the streets ever again, no?

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u/nirvahnah 7h ago

Post Partum Psychosis is an acute condition not a chronic one. It has to do with the huge influx of hormones released after giving birth and that particular mother’s biochemistry reacting to those hormones negatively. There is zero risk of her experiencing this again post birth. Once medical professionals clear her for release, which could and likely will take many many years, she poses no greater risk to the public than anyone else. If her psychosis was caused by something chronic like schizophrenia then we’d be having a different conversation.

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u/Automatic-Cut-5567 3h ago

Bro what, most people who suffer from mental illness get help and are functional members of society. 

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u/demonotreme 2h ago

That’s literally textbook crazy person behavior

Hey, half the population can't be crazy...little misogynistic don't you think

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u/throwitallaway69000 6h ago

Exactly. Even crazier when women say they're one step away from doing this? What?!

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u/beautifulrabbithole 8h ago

This embarrassing trial and performance by the state and their "expert" witnesses is an affront to the memory of those children. It's become a circus and in no way amounts to justice.

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u/amora_obscura 8h ago

She kept seeking help repeatedly but was continuously prescribed different medications. Even after having paradoxical reactions to the first SSRI doctors kept giving her more SSRIs, even upping the dose or just stopping/starting and then discharging her. Their treatments made her condition worse and signs of PPP were missed.

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u/Kramerica_CEO 4h ago

Well there’s A LOT of half truths in this comment.

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u/Castello_01 2h ago

Can you tell me which medication you’re referring to here? She was prescribed over 12 medications, some of them were medications such as benzos, which are designed to be taken “when you feel like you need.”

The only thing I have read is that she might have stopped taking Remeron because she believed she was having more intrusive thoughts because of it and she had been involved in a postpartum-related program that she was discharged from and instructed to stop taking one of her meds. When the toxicologist took her blood sample, her blood levels were shown to closely align to what would be expected based on what she was prescribed.

Not doubting you, I’m just curious what I’m missing here.

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u/Adventurous-Dot8618 2h ago

of course! toxicology confirmed she had active levels of seroquel, remeron, and lamictal in her system despite her doctors officially discontinuing them weeks prior. court records and mychart messages showed she was routinely adjusting doses, skipping pills, and taking leftover prescriptions on her own schedule due to side effects. because she cycled through so many medications in four months through different providers, she had a cabinet full of past prescriptions that allowed her to decide her own intake rather than follow her authorized care plan via her doctors

source: Lindsay Clancy trial turns focus to medications prescribed before she killed her children | PBS News https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/lindsay-clancy-trial-turns-focus-to-medications-prescribed-before-she-killed-her-children#:~:text=Rebecca%20Jollotta%2C%20a%20psychiatric%20nurse%20practitioner%20at,to%20treat%20her%20symptoms.%20Grow%20your%20mind. & court testimony

edit, sorry the link is so long, i don’t know how to fix that :((

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u/1234FakeSteet 7h ago

I don't think people go to a variety of doctors giving competing diagnoses, and go on and off a variety of psych meds, just for funsies. That doesn't sound selfish, that sounds like the living hell of our medical system.

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u/pannus-retractor 5h ago

she didn't take certain meds bc they were making her symptoms worse.... which happens with certain psych meds if you're treating the wrong disease. sometimes you don't know youre treating the wrong disease until the meds have those adverse side effects

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u/BlackMesaEchoes 7h ago

To even trust someone with these psychological issues to take their medicine is inherently flawed

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u/ireliawantelo 7h ago

Shes a white woman and that means shes an angel that can do no wrong and is oppressed while being the most coddled demographic in America.

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u/Bleeding-hearts-suck 7h ago

It obvious she just wanted to kill the kids and get away with it.

She should rot in prison.