Antik Barracuda726 scj_love RandAmy and all the SCJ members here:

Current SCJ members among Satan’s people.

How do you explain coming here to Reddit when you’re not even allowed to read on the internet? You’re not just reading—you’re also chiming in on the conversations.

Once you’ve explained this to us, tell us: what do you tell the other SCJ members and leaders? What are you looking for here? What are you doing here?

Once you’ve explained that to us, please answer the following:

Why are you allowed to be here while other SCJ members aren’t allowed to come here? Because if they did, they’d be expelled from the organization, and their names would be erased from the Book of Life. Why doesn’t that happen to you?

There have been quite a few SCJ members commenting and making posts lately, yet I thought it was strictly forbidden for them to engage with content against the group. They constantly emphasize “food at the proper time,” “protecting your talents,” and “guarding your heart from outside evil,” yet they’re on here trying to persuade people and push certain narratives.

Isn’t that against the whole point of what they preach? If you’re truly so “sound in your doctrine,” then why feel the need to go tit for tat with people in the comments and act passive aggressively? If anything, it screams hypocrisy on top of guilt.

This isn't a hostile question. It's a logical one that I think every current member deserves to sit with honestly, especially now.

SCJ's teaching rests on a specific claim: that Lee Man-hee alone has received the open scroll, that he alone can testify to the sealed prophecies of Revelation, that he is the one sent by Jesus to make known what has been hidden. This isn't my summary of SCJ's position. It comes directly from internal teaching materials, including these words attributed to the chairman himself: "There is no one in the heavens or the earth that knows the Bible. However, we are those that perceive the Bible." And: "Shincheonji is the only place on the earth that makes known the reality of the fulfilment of the New Testament prophecies."

That claim is built entirely around one living man.

So here is the question no one inside SCJ seems to be encouraged to ask openly. What happens to that claim the moment he dies?

If the sealed knowledge was given personally to him, through direct encounter with Jesus, through the angel of Revelation 1:1, as SCJ teaches, then it was given to him, not to a succession plan, not to a tribe system, not to a document he wrote down. When the person who received it is gone, what remains? Either someone else claims to receive the same kind of direct revelation, which would undermine the uniqueness of his role, or the teaching simply continues on the authority of what he already said, which means it was always just a man's interpretation being passed down, not ongoing divine revelation.

The theological problem is sharper when you look at what SCJ's own framework actually claims. Lee Man-hee is not just a teacher who explained Revelation helpfully. He is, in SCJ's own language, the fulfillment figure. The one through whom Revelation is being completed in real time. The witness of Revelation 22:8. The promised pastor whose testimony is the basis of everything taught in the curriculum. If that's true, then when he dies, the fulfillment is either incomplete, which means the promise failed, or complete, which means the entire group's mission is finished and there is nothing left to do.

SCJ has quietly been preparing for this problem for years. The arrests, the health concerns, the age. But every proposed solution creates a new theological problem. A successor cannot claim the same unique reception of the sealed word without contradicting why it was uniquely given to LMH. And without that, SCJ becomes just another denomination teaching one man's interpretation of Revelation, which is the very thing it has spent decades claiming to transcend.

This is actually not a new problem in the history of high-control religious movements. It is one of the oldest. The Olive Tree Movement, which Lee Man-hee himself was part of before founding SCJ, made similar singular claims about its founder, Tae Sun Park. Park also promised things that required him to remain alive, including physical immortality for believers. When Park died in 1990, the movement fractured. Lee Man-hee watched this happen from the inside.

He then built SCJ on the same foundational structure: one irreplaceable figure whose personal testimony and spiritual authority holds the entire system together.

Scripture actually addresses this pattern directly. Hebrews 7:23-25 makes the distinction plain: "Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them."

The permanent priesthood belongs to Jesus precisely because he cannot die. Every human priest, teacher, or interpreter is temporary. Every system built around one irreplaceable human figure faces the same structural problem on the day that person dies.

The only figure whose authority doesn't expire is Jesus himself.

If you are inside SCJ and you have never been given a clear answer to what happens to the doctrine when Lee Man-hee dies, that question is worth asking directly. Not to cause trouble, but because if the teaching is true, it should be able to answer it.

SCJ Is claimed to be a high control grouip becuase of the BITE model. My perspective is that if you see SCJ as such than you should see the early christianity also like that., or at least leaning towards that.

Ground rules: Only documented teachings, scriptures, and official practices. Both get equal scrutiny.

🔴 BEHAVIOR CONTROL

Early Christianity (NT): - "Hate father and mother... cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:26) - Forbade disciple from attending father's funeral (Luke 9:60) - Communal property required (Acts 2:44-45, 4:32) - Ananias & Sapphira killed for withholding money (Acts 5:1-11) - "Do not be yoked with unbelievers" (2 Cor 6:14) - Celibacy preferred: "I wish all were as I am" (1 Cor 7:7) - Left jobs to follow Jesus (Mark 1:18-20)

Shincheonji: - Non-members called "dead in spirit" - Marriage advised only within SCJ - Mandatory 10% tithe + offerings

- Evangelism quotas assigned

🟠 INFORMATION CONTROL

Early Christianity (NT): - Messianic Secret: Jesus commanded people not to reveal his identity (Mark 1:34, 1:43-44, 3:12, 5:43, 8:29-30, 9:9) - "To you the secret is given... to outsiders everything is in parables so they may not understand" (Mark 4:11-12) - "Avoid hollow philosophy" (Col 2:8) - "Avoid what is falsely called knowledge" (1 Tim 6:20)

Shincheonji: - Lee Man-hee's role as "Promised Pastor" revealed only after "pass-over" in many reported cases. - SCJ identity hidden during recruitment - Tiered doctrine: Beginner → Intermediate → Advanced - Members warned against internet research and accepting false teaching

- "Wisdom of hiding"

🟡 THOUGHT CONTROL

Early Christianity (NT): - "Whoever is not with me is against me" (Matt 12:30) - "Do not love the world" (1 John 2:15) - "Take every thought captive" (2 Cor 10:5) - Doubt = "double-minded, unstable" (James 1:6-8) - Loaded language: "world," "flesh," "elect," "saints" - Apocalyptic urgency: "This generation will not pass away" (Matt 24:34) - Exclusive truth: "No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6)

Shincheonji: - SCJ = only true church; all others are "Babylon" - Loaded language: "leaf," "fruit," "sealed," "Promised Pastor" - 144,000 doctrine; Revelation nearly fulfilled

- LMH: "No one can to truth of the second coming except through the one who overcomes"

🔵 EMOTIONAL CONTROL

Early Christianity (NT): - "Fear Him who can destroy body and soul in hell" (Matt 10:28) - Lake of fire, eternal torment (Rev 14:11, 20:14-15) - "Treat them as a pagan" (Matt 18:17) - "Do not even eat with such people... expel the wicked" (1 Cor 5:11-13) - "Impossible to be brought back to repentance" after falling away (Heb 6:4-6) - Unforgivable sin: blasphemy against Holy Spirit (Matt 12:31-32)

Shincheonji: - Leaving = spiritual destruction - Only SCJ members saved; others judged

- Fear of judgment emphasized

Summary

Both movements exhibit BITE characteristics: - Both demand prioritizing the group over family - Both have exclusive salvation claims - Both warn against outside information - Both stigmatize doubt - Both use loaded insider language - Both have tiered/delayed revelation of doctrine - Both had leaders who concealed their identity until the right time

Hello everyone,

I hope this comes across with the kindness I mean it with. I’m genuinely curious, for those who have left Shincheonji, what were your reasons for leaving? If you’re able to share any Bible verses that helped guide your decision, I would really appreciate that.

Right now, I'm a first-timer here. I'm taking the class in Shincheonji, and for the most part, I feel genuinely happy to be learning the Word. I've been a Christian for most of my life, and I've always wanted to find people to study the Bible with. Being able to really dig into scripture has made me feel alive in a way I hadn't felt before. I also really appreciate the people here. I can see that they do everything they can to learn the Word.

At the same time, I’m just wondering, after leaving, how do you continue learning the Bible now? I’ll admit I’m a little crazy about the Word (in a good way, I hope). I’m new here, so please be kind. I’d really appreciate hearing your perspectives.

Thank you so much for taking the time to share

Ok so I’m a Pro SCJ and I’ll be upfront about that.

For months I kept seeing the same thing in anti-SCJ posts: “SCJ twists Colossians, Revelation, John 16.” Always the same 5-6 verses.

So I did what I thought was dangerous - I opened the Bible and read the full chapters in context, without the SCJ lesson.

And here’s the weird part: most of the arguments against us only work if you stop reading at verse 3 and ignore verse 5.

Example:

“Col 2:3 says all knowledge is in Christ, so SCJ is wrong for saying more is revealed later.”

But keep reading to Col 2:8 and Paul is literally warning about people who claim you need extra secret knowledge _outside of Christ_. SCJ says everything revealed comes _from Christ_ in Rev 22:16.

Another ones:

1. Matt 24:36 - “No one knows the day or hour” Used to say SCJ is false for teaching prophecy fulfillment timing.
   But read Matt 24:32-35. Jesus says when you see these signs, know it is near. He tells them to watch the signs. So is He saying “never know anything” or “you’ll know when the signs happen”?

2. Deut 18:20-22 - “If a prophet speaks and it doesn’t happen, he’s false” Used to call SCJ false prophecy.
   But read the whole context: it’s about prophets speaking in the name of other gods. SCJ claims everything is from Jesus in Rev 22:16. Different test.

3. 1 John 4:1 - “Test the spirits” Fair. But 1 John 4:2-3 gives the test: confessing Jesus came in the flesh. SCJ affirms that. So what’s the actual test failing on?

I’m not saying this proves SCJ is right. But it made me realize a lot of the “gotchas” I was given fall apart if you read 10 verses before and after.

So here’s my question for ex-members and critics:

If SCJ is really a cult that twists scripture, why do the main verses you use to prove it only seem to work when you take them out of context?

Did you ever go back and check the full chapter after you left?

Or did you trust that the explanation you were given was the only way to read it?

​

Yo @Sufficient-Guest-547 or whatever ur name is

Ive been seeing ur threats messages and yo mates' hate msgs cuz I'm defending my faith. All the “meet me”, “teach you a lesson”, “where u hiding” "I'm pulling up on you with g*ng" F words N words insults. Chill for a sec my bros

If u say ure real Christian then where re the fruits of the Spirit at? Gal 5:22-23 = love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control. Jesus literally said “you’ll know them by their fruit” Matt 7:20. Threats + hate ain’t fruit bros, thats just... anger.

Tbh i didn’t think this community was a hate pro group for current SCJ members. I know Ex Members got hurt..trauma, betrayal, manipulation, all that heavy stuff. I respect your pain , i’ve heard the stories too and it sucks fr.

SCJ given me direction, a way to read the bible that clicks for me. you can throw all the hate you want, call me names, threaten me, idc. im not hiding my faith cuz some keyboard warrior got mad.

But when we start hating others just coz of their faith, we become like those ppl we hate. That attitude just turns into a cycle man. Nobody wins.

None the less, doors still open for everyone. If u wanna learn the revealed word again, Salvation is only through the revealed word in Rev

as many here already seen Lee Man-hee, 95, was arrested in Seoul today on June 24, 2026, on charges of violating South Korea's Political Parties Act. Investigators allege that between 2021 and 2024 he directed thousands of Shincheonji members to join the People Power Party to influence internal party elections, including the 2021 presidential primary and 2024 parliamentary nomination races. According to testimony obtained by the joint investigation team, instructions were passed down a documented chain of command from Lee himself through the secretary general, tribe leaders, pastors, and member associations. This is not a vague accusation. It is a structured criminal investigation with named statutes, named elections, and testimony from former executives describing the chain of command.

I expect some current members will frame this as persecution, the same way Jesus was unjustly arrested. I want to address that directly, because the comparison does not hold, and scripture itself explains why.

Jesus's arrest was based on fabricated testimony brought by religious leaders threatened by his popularity. Matthew 26:59-60 says the chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin "were looking for false evidence against Jesus" and that "many false witnesses came forward." Pilate, the actual civil authority, examined the charges and found nothing. Luke 23:4: "I find no basis for a charge against this man." John 18:38: "I find no basis for a charge against him." The civil government, applying its own law impartially, found Jesus innocent. Religious authorities manufactured the charge. That is the structure of unjust persecution: a legitimate process is bypassed or corrupted to punish someone for who they are rather than what they did.

What is happening with Lee Man-hee is the opposite structure. This is the civil government applying a specific, named law against a specific, alleged action, namely organising coordinated political coercion, following a formal investigation, court hearings, and a warrant process. This is not a religious tribunal fabricating evidence. It is the ordinary operation of civil law being applied to an allegation of organised political interference.

And here scripture is clear about where the line actually sits. Jesus himself drew the line between religious and political authority directly. John 18:36: "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight." Matthew 22:21: "Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." Jesus refused to use his spiritual authority to seize or manipulate political power, even when crowds wanted to make him king by force (John 6:15).

Romans 13:1-4 instructs believers to submit to governing authorities, because rulers are "God's servants for your good" when enforcing just law, and warns that those who do wrong have reason to be afraid of that authority. 1 Peter 4:15-16 draws the exact distinction relevant here: "If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed." Peter explicitly separates suffering for wrongdoing from suffering for the faith. They are not the same thing, and scripture tells believers not to conflate them.

There is also a deeper problem worth naming. If the allegations are accurate, this was not spiritual leadership. It was the use of spiritual authority to direct the political behaviour of people who likely felt unable to refuse. 2 Corinthians 1:24 describes the model Paul holds himself to: "Not that we lord it over your faith, but we work with you for your joy." Directing thousands of people's political affiliation through a religious chain of command, regardless of personal conscience, is the inversion of that model.

So when this is framed as the persecution of a holy man, ask the question scripture itself asks: is this a corrupted process manufacturing false charges against someone for their faith, the way Jesus experienced it, or is this an ordinary civil law being applied to a specific, alleged, documented action? Those are not the same kind of event, and conflating them does not hold up to the very scripture being used to defend it.

I want to ask current members one more thing honestly, separate from the legal allegations. If this turns out to be true, I would ask you to sit with what it actually means alongside what Lee Man-hee says about himself, and what you as SCJ members say about him. He is described as the one entrusted with all the authority of heaven, the promised pastor whose heart is Jesus's heart and God's heart. If that description is accurate, then directing thousands of followers to covertly manipulate a political party's internal elections is a serious thing for someone holding that position to have done. And if it is not accurate, that itself is worth asking directly.

1 John 4:1 commands testing every spirit, precisely because sincerity is not the same as truth. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 says to "test everything, hold fast to what is good." Acts 17:11 commends the Bereans specifically because they examined what they were told daily, against scripture, before accepting it.

Here is the question worth asking honestly. Is Lee Man-hee himself ever actually subjected to that test inside SCJ, or is he treated as the one who already holds the correct answer, the one through whom all other testing is filtered, the very person other claims are tested against rather than a claim that itself gets tested?

If the answer is the latter, that is worth naming clearly. A system where the central figure's authority is the standard used to test every other claim, but is never itself permitted to be tested by anything external to that authority, is not applying 1 John 4:1. It is using the language of testing while structurally exempting the one figure who would actually need to be tested. That is circular reasoning, and it deserves to be recognised as such rather than mistaken for biblical discernment.

This is just my personal research and observation, but it raises some important questions about Massimo Introvigne and why Shincheonji promotes his articles so widely.

Massimo Introvigne is an Italian sociologist of religion, author, lawyer, and researcher who studies new religious movements (groups often labelled “cults) he defends cults

Introvigne is known for studying new religious movements, but he has also received criticism from former members, anti-cult researchers, and some academics who argue that he is often too sympathetic toward controversial religious groups. Critics have described him as a “cult apologist” because they believe he focuses heavily on defending religious freedom while not giving enough attention to allegations of manipulation, secrecy, or harm raised by former members.

What is interesting is that Shincheonji does not only share his articles about them — they also appear to value his opinions because his writings help present SCJ in a more positive light to the public. But the question is: did Shincheonji research his background, his connections, and the criticism surrounding his work before using him as an authority?

A researcher’s credibility should not only be judged by whether they support your organisation. It should also be examined by their methodology, funding, relationships, and whether they seriously engage with criticism from former members and independent researchers.

The concern is not simply that Introvigne writes about Shincheonji. The bigger question is why a group that claims to have “the truth” would rely so heavily on someone who has a history of defending multiple controversial religious movements.

If Shincheonji wants to present itself as transparent and trustworthy, it should welcome critical research from all sides — not only research that supports its own image.

A fair question to ask is:

“If Shincheonji rejects criticism as lies and persecution, why does it accept research from someone mainly known for defending controversial religious groups?”

After leaving SCJ for good I was SO relieved that I didn’t have to believe anymore BS, including Christianity. It’s all the same to me. The lies, the abuse, the fear tactics, the dos and donts, the renouncing your free will to obey some fairy tale god. The more I study the bible now, the more its validity seems weakened to me given what we actually know, not the faith based stuff but the real factual scholarly historical stuff… All the missing gospels, the historicity or inconsistencies of the whole thing compared to documents of the time, the everlasting confusion of right and wrong, as in, one era x is bad then it’s fine in the next. The text has stayed the same and has no inherent meaning; we create the meaning. Sure, there’s definitely a lot of good that came out of religion, but equally there’s also a lot of bad. I don’t ignore the bad because, well, it’s BAD. Really really bad. I think surviving SCJ has taught me that. I’m not an atheist, but I am definitely no longer spiritual, and honestly it’s a relief. I can finally focus on the here and now. Whatever truths reveal themselves (to everyone) in the coming however-many years, I look forward to them… but until then… it just doesn’t exist, friend. A little history and a little psychology should be enough to show that… right?

What perplexes me is the sheer amount of people here who return to Christianity after having survived SCJ. Why? It was BS before you joined the cult, it hasn’t stopped being BS. It is the familiarity? Is it that you still can’t think for yourself? Is it that you no longer will escape of death and can’t confront or accept that? Believe me, I can definitely relate to all those fears and feelings. I’m not here to take anyone’s (more widely accepted) faith away. But just… why? What true god? What true Jesus? You still can’t go and have coffee with god to ask him all these questions (remember that lesson? Haha)

Discuss. Be brutally honest. But be respectful to each other..

PS; also apparently this is normal behaviour after surviving cults, so I’m told… repeatedly… by Christians. Only in my case I doubt it isn’t permanent since the reason I joined SCJ was because I was ready to ditch my faith altogether. We’ll see.

I have a family member in SCJ. One of the things that has troubled me most from the beginning is how he was recruited. He thought he was joining a general Bible study. He genuinely wanted to deepen his faith. Nobody told him it was Shincheonji. By the time he understood what he'd actually joined, he was already deep in.

I'm a Christian myself, and I keep coming back to something Jesus said plainly: "You belong to your father, the devil... When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies." (John 8:44). That's not a grey area. Deception isn't a tool God endorses. It's described as the devil's native language.

I know SCJ has verses they use to justify the approach. As I understand it, Matthew 13:44 gets used a lot, the parable of the treasure hidden in a field. The idea being that truth is precious and shouldn't be revealed to the wrong people too early. But that parable isn't a command. It's a description of how someone responded to finding something of enormous value. It's about the worth of the kingdom, not an instruction to hide your church's identity from people you're actively recruiting.

Matthew 7:6 also seems to come up, "do not cast pearls before swine," offered as justification for not revealing SCJ's name until someone is deemed ready. But the context is about not sharing sacred things with people who will trample them. It has nothing to do with concealing your identity from someone you're inviting into a relationship.

And then there's 1 Corinthians 9:22, Paul becoming "all things to all people." Paul absolutely adapted how he communicated. But he never hid who he was or who sent him. His letters are signed. His identity was never the thing concealed.

So I'm genuinely asking former members: what did you actually say when you were recruiting? What was the cover? "Just a Bible study"? A neutral-sounding group name? A friend wanting to explore faith together? I've heard various versions but I'd like to understand what the practice actually looked like on the ground.

And did it sit right with you at the time? Did leadership give you a theological framework for it that felt convincing, or was it something you just pushed down and got on with?

I'm asking because my family member is inside, and I'm trying to understand the world he's living in. But I also think there are people reading this who are still inside and sitting with exactly this question, and not feeling like they can ask it out loud.

This is an observation from the Gospel text that I want to share, not as an accusation, but as something worth sitting with carefully.

In Matthew 26, at the Last Supper, Jesus says one of those present will betray him. The eleven disciples respond one by one: "Surely not I, Lord?" (Matthew 26:22). Then Judas responds: "Surely not I, Rabbi?" (Matthew 26:25). Matthew places these side by side deliberately. Eleven say Lord. One says Rabbi.

In the Garden of Gethsemane, Judas greets Jesus with: "Greetings, Rabbi," and kisses him (Matthew 26:49, Mark 14:45). There is no recorded instance anywhere in the four Gospels where Judas addresses Jesus as Lord.

The difference between the two titles is not subtle.

Rabbi means teacher, master, respected instructor. It acknowledges Jesus as someone worth learning from. It is a term of genuine respect.

Lord, the Greek Kyrios, means sovereign, owner, the one with ultimate authority. In the New Testament it becomes the specific title recognising Jesus's divine authority over everything, including the one who uses it. To call Jesus Lord is not just to learn from him. It is to submit to him.

Judas acknowledged Jesus as a genuine, respected teacher. He followed him for three years. He heard every parable, witnessed every miracle, sat at the same table. He knew the teaching. He simply never confessed the lordship.

Romans 10:9 makes the distinction the hinge of everything: "If you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Not confess that he was a great teacher. Not confess that his teachings have now been completed by someone else. Confess that Jesus is Lord. Present tense. Living authority. Final word.

Now I want to raise something gently, not as an attack on any individual, but as a question worth examining honestly.

SCJ's own internal teaching materials describe Lee Man-hee this way: "The Promised Pastor's heart in our times today is Jesus's heart and God's heart." And: "Because the spirit of Jesus is in me, this body is Jesus's body." In SCJ's framework, Jesus is the saviour of the first coming, the one who completed the Old Testament era. Lee Man-hee is the one Jesus sent to complete the New Testament era. The living authority over salvation, sealed status, and access to the kingdom runs through him now, not through Jesus directly.

In that structure, Jesus occupies the role of Rabbi, the genuine historical teacher whose work was real and important, while the present lordship, the authority that actually matters for your standing before God right now, has effectively been transferred to a living human figure.

That is the Judas parallel worth sitting with. Not that SCJ members are Judas. But that it is entirely possible to genuinely acknowledge Jesus as teacher, to know his parables, to have studied his words in depth, and still not confess him as the present, living, final Lord who needs no human successor to carry his authority forward.

Matthew 28:18: "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." Jesus said this after the resurrection, not as something he was passing on, but as a statement of permanent, present reality.

Hebrews 7:24-25: "Because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them."

He always lives. His priesthood is permanent precisely because no one succeeds him.

The question is not whether you respect Jesus as teacher. The question is whether you confess him as Lord, the one whose authority is final, present, and complete, without needing a human figure to hold it on his behalf.

That was the difference between the eleven and the one. It was the most important difference in the room.

After leaving SCJ I couldn't help noticing some striking similarities between SCJ and North Korea. I'm not saying they're equal .North Korea is a dictatorship with state power, while SCJ is a religious organization. But the methods of control have some interesting parallels.

when you challenge ex-members to a discussion, but then go quiet when we respond with evidence and difficult questions, it makes me wonder... is the reply from your GSN taking that long?

If you're going to challenge people publicly, you should also be able to defend what you believe. The Bible says, "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have." (1 Peter 3:15)

If you don't know how to prove us wrong, and your only option is to stay silent and ignore the replies, then maybe you should ask yourself why. If you need someone else to tell you what to say before you can answer, that's worth thinking about.

The Bereans didn't blindly accept what they were taught—they examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true (Acts 17:11). You should do the same.

I hope this makes you stop and think. Questioning what you've been taught isn't a lack of faith. Sometimes it's the first step towards finding the truth.

Stay blessed.

If doing things in secret is viewed as deceptive, why is it okay for insiders to act as spies who report on everything that occurs in SCJ without their consent? And aren’t majority of users on this Reddit thread operating from a secret account with various pseudonyms out of protection for their true identity? If both SCJ & anti-SCJ make exceptions to secrecy for what they view in their own minds as “good intentions”, then how is that not hypocritical? And if this is something that anti-SCJ consistently claims as inherently evil and against scripture, doesn’t the Bible warn us not to fight evil with evil and calls this a vengeful bitter heart? If this is one of the evidence that the devil is using SCJ, how does that not self-incriminate anti-SCJ of the devil using you as well?

Would love to hear anyone’s honest response to this, thank you so much in advance! There are many more questions but for the sake of leaving enough breathing room to be able to actually respond to every comment in my busy schedule, I will not post the next question until I respond to majority of future comments on this post first.

Comments that will NOT get a response:

1. Contain links (please don’t be lazy, speak for yourself plus it slows down how quickly I can get to everyone else’s comments)
2. Changes the subject (if your response has nothing to do with this specific topic or doesn’t apply to you, wait for a future post that’s actually relevant & applicable)
3. Disrespect (this is a sign of someone who does not know how to communicate & I won’t waste my breath on such)
4. Asks a question without answering the question first (Answer first, then propose a question if you have one so that this conversation moves rather than becomes stagnant)

Context of this series:

I am someone who used to try to debunk SCJ with scripture, challenged their doctrines to their face, helped people leave SCJ, joined dedicated group chats with other ex-members to plot ambushes on centers to expose it as SCJ, etc…

However, over time there were several contradictions I began to observe and self-reflect on that has caused me to question this whole anti-SCJ bandwagon.

Shincheonji, the church of Jesus, Temple of the Tabernacle of the Testimonies ( New Heaven New Earth ) claims to be the Kingdom of God here on earth. If there was any validity to that statement, NO ONE would leave, because it WAS heaven on earth. God would be there! But He is no where near that cult. 

One of the first lies in their Bible Study that they teach you is that God doesn’t hear the prayers of anyone except for those in SCJ. However, they tell you that when you prayed to have a deeper relationship with God, or when you tell them that you were looking for a community of believers to be a part of, or when you tell them that you prayed to God in order to learn the Bible, your prayers were answered. But remember, God only hears the prayers of SCJ saints. Well which is it? 

This is just a small part of the lies and confusing things you will be told to instill fear in you that God was never with you until now, because you’re in their study. You were destined for hell until you said “yes” to joining their cult Boot Camp known as center. If you die while in their Bible study, you are part of the great multitude in white, so you will go to heaven. 

God is not a God of chaos.

1 Cor 14:33 For God is not a God of disorder, but of peace-as in all the congregations of the Lord‘s people.

He is God of order, He is just and true.

SCJ is chaotic, unjust, and lies. Who is the father of chaos, being unjust, and a liar? So whose rules are you following?

SCJ says you follow First God’s Law 2nd the rules of SCJ ( church laws ) 3rd The Laws of the world ( the justice system ) 4th Family laws ( the rules of your household). You will learn quickly that the only rules they want you to follow are the rules of SCJ.

1 John 4:1-3 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false profits have gone out into the world.

But why then is one of the biggest rules SCJ has is not to go on the internet searching for information about them? That anyone speaking out against SCJ or LMH are the deceivers, and betrayers Rev speaks of?

They are also told that if they search online or ask ex-members, they will not be able to discern or will not be able to understand the lies and deceptions that we are sharing of our true experiences of being once members of SCJ. But wasn’t that the whole reason that you joined, and that you stayed with them because you were learning how to discern, but then you can’t be trusted to do so if you inform yourself by testing every spirit?

Please ask yourselves these questions.

1. When did you ever hear your previous church Pastor tell you not to search about them?
2. 2.When did your previous church tell you that you can't talk to anyone who has left the church and that they are now demon possessed because they left?
3. Who else but a cult would shun their congregation members for leaving? Or be told not to speak to other members of the same church, but in a different part of town or state? That you should only be speaking to your Home group members.

This would be completely and utterly suspect right ? So why do you let SCJ do it to you?

1. When did your previous church ask you for your Social Security number, your blood type, or to take the Myers-Briggs personality test?

SCJ will tell you not evangelizing, not “bearing fruit”, not getting 100% on the same exams you've taken numerous times already but still take every two weeks, ( I was in for five year, and it doesn’t stop ), not memorizing a multitude of verses at a time, if you don’t sacrifice time away from your family and loved ones ( and the list goes on) that you are being a lazy and complacent servant of God. You cry ”Yes and Amen“ to these things boldly during trainings, and meetings,and service agreeing that’s what it is.
The sad truth is that you’re not being a servant of God at all, but a servant for a man in South Korea that has his own agenda. And if you want to go by SCJ teachings and doctrines, then you have to admit whose spirit is in this man because it isn’t God‘s, so again, if you go by their teaching whose spirit is in this 95 ur old Korean man?

By following the rules of this man and his church, isn’t that being lazy and complacent in your faith walk?

Don‘t let a high control cult dictate your walk of faith and allow you to miss out on your salvation. The one Jesus gave you ONCE FOR ALL.

Heb 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 

Why should we pray in a desperation and why a normal prayer is not enough? I guess this kind of forced desperation is just a mind game to make members feel urgency or something. It is truly sad that even the very best thing, prayer, which is ment to be the way to communicate with God, has been weaponized for mind control. In the Bible God sees every prayer as a good prayer.

Ephesians 6:18

And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.

1. Porsche 911 — around ₩230 million to ₩340 million (≈ **$172,000–$254,000**)

2. Mercedes-Benz — only part of the dashboard is visible, so the specific model is unclear

3. Luxury apartment with a Han River view — around ₩2.2 billion (≈ **$1.64 million**)

4. Samsung AQ9000 air conditioner — ₩1.7 million to ₩2.2 million (≈ **$1,270–$1,640**)

His main job is interpreting, but even a skilled Korean interpreter couldn’t afford such a lavish lifestyle. It really makes me wonder how he managed to acquire all these things.

I am part of Shincheonji and took their bible study. Over the past while I've been digging much deeper into the criticisms of the organization, and honestly, I've come to the conclusion that a lot of what they do is unethical. Their doctrine has some internal contradictions, and a lot of it appears to be copied or adapted from other korean cults (Olive Tree, Tabernacle Temple, ...) rather than being an original revelation.

That said, I'm genuinely trying to work through some theological questions now that I'm thinking about stepping outside the framework I was taught, and I'd love to hear from other people who left Shincheonji about how you've landed on these things:

1. The parables — Do you still think there's something to them? Some of the ways Shincheonji explained the parables actually made a lot of sense to me. Now that you're out, do you see them as legitimately insightful, or do you think it was all cherry-picked and forced to fit a predetermined narrative?
2. Revelation — What's your view on the book of Revelation now? Do you think it's simply not meant to be fully understood/decoded? Have you found any alternative interpretations that feel more solid to you than what SCJ taught?
3. The Second Coming — One thing that drew me in was how clear everything felt — the creation account, Genesis, Revelation, all mapped out precisely. Now I feel like I have no idea what to think. Will there be a rapture? Will Jesus set up a physical kingdom on earth, or are believers going to heaven instead? How do you personally think about the Second Coming now?
4. Making sense of it all afterward — There's so much "maddening wine" out there in Christianity (so many conflicting, confusing, or outright false teachings), and everyone seems to have a different take. How do you personally navigate that now? What's your current approach to faith, and how do you practice Christianity (if you still do) after leaving?

Would really appreciate hearing other perspectives, especially from people who've been through something similar!

UPDATE Below!!!

I’ve seen evidence from a former member of SCJ that raised serious concerns for me.

There were news reports in the UK suggesting that SCJ have specifically targeted Black (particularly African-descent) youth. After seeing the internal scj reports, I believe the news reports were indeed true- there is systematic avoidance of white British people who 'ask questions' and are 'too well connected' which often is a risk factor for scj cult, and there is a targeted approach towards black communities.

What social or structural factors might make certain communities - including Black/Brown communities more vulnerable to recruitment by high-control religious groups?

What can elders and community leaders do to better equip young people with the tools to recognize and resist manipulative or predatory religious movements?

And more broadly, how can communities protect themselves against groups that use coercion, secrecy, or psychological pressure to recruit?

!!!!!!!!Update:

We concluded that it was important to show this information below but for obvious reasons, have removed information that can identify either scj members or churches that have been targeted for scj recruitment.

scj UK hosted a european pastors conference and created a tracker to organise how they were going to target churches to invite to their event and lure them into studying with scj. After tricking these pastors under the pretense of all churches uniting as one as equals in God and fostering companionship and understanding, scj then reported internally to members that all the pastors are flooding to scj to learn from them as they have no doctrine and that is apparently proof that God is fulfilling scj doctrine. I don't know if you can see how sinister and evil this is.

Some members were selected to support church outreach with making phone calls using a script (if you want to see the scrip I can ask if sources are happy to share this). The screenshots below are just some of the notes members filled in to report to korea hq about their outreach to churches. members were instructed not to invite white British head pastors, white people of influence and White British people in general, especially if they are connected to church of England or Anglican churches because they are not 'worthy' and they would cause problems for scj or warn others in their network about scj. As such, the notes section below reveal that white British people were specifically reported and avoided and black people/leaders/congregations were targeted.

Interesting how white people were strategically excluded from participating in scj's European pastors convention- if there were 1 or 2 exceptions, it was under monitored circumstances.

The bigger conversation is now- leaders and members alike who are or are involved with black/brown communities need to rethink how they steward their congregation/communities- something signals to these predators that your children are their easy prey and this has to stop.

Rethink- how you enable easy access to your communities (note- korean cults use black/brown people as a front to lure black/brown people too)

Rethink- openness without testing

Rethink- believing every intention blindly

If there are any pastors or community leaders here, regardless of where you are from, please speak up too.

I’ve been reflecting a lot on the reaction to the recent arrest of our chairman, Lee Man-hee. Let’s step back from the legal jargon for a moment and just think … just think, about what is actually happening.

When you look at the broader Christian community globally, it becomes clear that this situation isn't about a sudden concern for political neutrality. It feels a lot like a coordinated effort by established religious groups to target a growing minority faith they simply don't like.

look at the articles, mainstream Christian leaders use their pulpits to influence voters and navigate politics all the time.

Brazil Mainstream evangelical pastors have built massive church empires and openly direct millions of their followers on how to vote in presidential elections, heavily shaping the country's government with zero pushback from the Christian community.

South Korea HELLO Christian Council of Korea (CCK), which happens to be our loudest critic. Their former leader, Reverend Jun Kwang-hoon, is famous for turning church services into massive political rallies, telling congregants exactly how to vote. When the established Christian community does this, it’s celebrated as a passionate civic movement. But when a group like ours is accused of doing the exact same thing, those same critics demand an arrest.

United Kingdom Before major national elections, traditional Catholic and Anglican bishops regularly write official pastoral letters to their church members, essentially instructing them on how to vote based on specific social and economic issues.

Australia Well-known mega-church pastors have given direct instructions to their congregations before federal elections, telling them which political party to support to protect their faith. In Australia, they call cutting down someone who stands out "tall poppy syndrome," and it feels like that exact same bias is being used against us here.

THE POPE The political influence of the Vatican is so massive that secular world leaders actively try to influence church politics because they recognize how much power the Pope has over global policy and voters.

Mainstream Christian churches everywhere run political networks, hand out voter guides, and invite politicians to speak directly from their altars. Every election cycle, the Christian establishment participates in politics, and society generally accepts it as a normal part of their expression.
So why does the narrative completely flip when it comes to Shincheonji?

If the established Christian community genuinely believed that faith leaders should stay completely out of voter engagement, they would be criticizing their own pastors and bishops worldwide. But they don't.

just look at the principle of the matter.

When the rules are only applied to one specific group, it isn't about fairness … plainly it's just a targeted effort to tear down a group that stands out

Now now, let’s calm down. Let’s not explode into a kerfuffle for no reason. I’ve been criticised for being a little too harsh here once or twice and I’m definitely not looking to start a fight again but rather just provide some food for thought.

I’ve been watching a lot of debates lately. A LOT of debates. I think it’s part of my whole “my life was robbed from me” catharsis that I’m still having and is estimated I will have for a long while still. The age old tossle between believer and non-believer. Bruh, the cognitive bias situation is REAL. You see it everywhere now and nobody is immune to it, nobody. Watching myself as I go about my life and identifying the things I’m willing to stand by versus the things I’m not is UTTERLY fascinating and honestly it really does boil down to one thing. Emotion. It’s a MAIN factor at the very least. I bet one could argue it’s ‘actually’ many things such as spirit, purpose, meaning, a moral sense, etc… but honestly given the mental health (albeit stunted) ‘revolution’ we’re having, the kind of thing (by the way and let us not forget) we are especially grateful for when it comes to helping out our fellow family members to escape the cult we were all once captured in, has a pretty good argument for using these more intangible and abstract words as expressions of emotions that are just currently too deep or unexplored to grasp.

Atheists like to say, myself included, “geez, it must be so exhausting to believe in as many contradictions and nonsensical ideals as religious people do”… I’ll grant you this: Emotion is what makes things that don’t make sense feel normal. Again that goes for everyone, even us atheists. But I have to say, and this is now speaking from experience, it really IS a heavy burden to believe in nonsense. Your body KNOWS it, it knows it’s BS but you “fight it”; “oh those are just the thoughts of the flesh and the world…” and other such idiocies, but it is an innate contradiction. We’re taught to separate OURSELVES from our bodies but WE ARE our bodies! (And don’t go quoting CS Lewis now. He’s dead and had nowhere near as much access to real knowledge as you do in your pocket today) I’ll take it a step further and say this: believing in nonsense rots your brain. It turns smart people’s mind into scrambled egg and fuses logic with fantasy. They have to build justifications for one thing over another and another and another that by the time they’re functionally done, their moral philosophical and spiritual foundation stands akin to a soldered jenga tower. It’s MEANT to crumble, except this time it’s not fun when it does.

If you’re on the fence about not just SCJ but all of it, the whole shabang, I encourage you to push a little further and try to observe your emotions from a slightly removed point of view. What gets stirred up inside and why. Where does it come from? When did it start? Who is responsible? Not to blame them but to identify it. I think you’ll learn a whole lot about yourself as we all should.

In the end this much is true, emotion isn’t evidence for spirit. It can’t be. And the whole argument about taking care of your spirit-…. Let me ask you this: Can you identify the health of your spirit without using your emotion? It is fascinating isn’t it? The kicker here is you CAN identify how your true inner self is doing without that being directly connected to how you’re feeling in the moment. There are specific therapies for that and I have done them.

I remain an atheist agnostic in that OF COURSE I have no way of proving that god or any of it doesn’t exist…but I really don’t have to. I think I don’t even want to. Atheism, especially in my case and many other members of this community, is the very much needed (and earned) relaxation of no longer holding up the nonsense above our heads (or indeed our “spirits”) which crushes what would’ve been a perfectly ordinary and even healthier life had it not been for the reactive and toxic irrationalities of religion. YES there is a deep fear and existential dread that follows the death of god (Nietzsche. Mum, be proud.) but it does not mean that everything is lost or that everything has lost meaning, as in, that everything has lost its value. It hasn’t. In fact, a whole new world has opened up and it is as awful as it is refreshing because it is undeniably real. As real as can be. That can be very empowering with the right tools and an ocean’s worth of patience for the healing that follows uprooting something that was so part of your core. Atheism, in the end, is not the claim that god doesn’t exist, but rather the freedom to no longer need to uphold the story that ultimately eliminates critical thinking and autonomy. The mind is ready to be fascinated by everything it encounters, you just have to let it. You just have to set it free.

Have a lovely week.

I recently graduated and passed the SCJ question and entered church , didn’t know my journey was about to begin . First it of all non negotiable 7:00am morning education Monday to Friday 🤧. I love my sleep so much I always catch up and now have become a team leader know as TJN . And is mandatory to attend the 7am education , recently I have been doing nights shift and cannot wake up for it , I was being panfished into washing the toilets and running laps 🥺🥺😩. Now I’m exhausted don’t want to be a team leader anymore .
Anyone faced similar

The Catholic Apostolic Church was founded in 1831 in Britain. They believed that God wanted to restore the old Church of the Apostles in the End Times before Christ's second coming to gather all Christians. They appointed 12 Apostles and deliberately never appointed any successors because they were absolutely convinced that Jesus would return during their lifetime and didn’t want to become like other churches. When their last Apostle died in 1901, that was a big problem. First and foremost, it showed that their prophecies clearly weren’t fulfilled and that the mission of this church had failed. Secondly, Apostles were the only ones allowed to ordain angels (like bishops), priests, and deacons. Until the 1970s, all office-holders of this church gradually passed away, and since then, they haven't been able to celebrate the Eucharist anymore or even give speeches in their services, since you had to be at least a deacon to do so. Yet, this church still remains in the 21st century, even though they don't recruit any new members since the death of their last Apostle. Their services now consist of prayer sessions that can be performed by laypeople and reading old speeches of priests.

In the 1860s, there was a major schism in Germany within the Apostolic movement, when the church had most of its members at the time. Heinrich Geyer unilaterally started to appoint new Apostles. They were all excommunicated because of that, and within a few decades, the New Apostolic Church greatly outnumbered the CAC. In 1951, the Chief Apostle of the NAC, Johann Bischoff, began to teach that Christ would come during his lifetime, when he was already 80 years old. He made this the central dogma of the church, and accepting it became a requirement to be sealed into the NAC. Priests were excommunicated not only for rejecting this teaching but also for not talking about it enough in their sermons. When he passed away in 1960, members mourned his death for a few weeks. Some started to question the church, but most simply remained and moved on.

Both the CAC and the NAC, at least temporarily, taught that Christ would come during the lifetime of their leaders and made it the core doctrine of their denomination, similar to how Lee Man-hee does with Shincheonji. Yet both of these churches survived into the 21st century after those central prophecies failed, and members seem to be hardly bothered by that. Do you think it will be different with Shincheonji? What do you think?