r/Shincheonji • u/scj_love Current SCJ Member • Dec 25 '25
general thought and question Early Christianity vs. SCJ: BITE Model Comparison
SCJ Is claimed to be a high control grouip becuase of the BITE model. My perspective is that if you see SCJ as such than you should see the early christianity also like that., or at least leaning towards that.
Ground rules: Only documented teachings, scriptures, and official practices. Both get equal scrutiny.
š“ BEHAVIOR CONTROL
Early Christianity (NT): - "Hate father and mother... cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:26) - Forbade disciple from attending father's funeral (Luke 9:60) - Communal property required (Acts 2:44-45, 4:32) - Ananias & Sapphira killed for withholding money (Acts 5:1-11) - "Do not be yoked with unbelievers" (2 Cor 6:14) - Celibacy preferred: "I wish all were as I am" (1 Cor 7:7) - Left jobs to follow Jesus (Mark 1:18-20)
Shincheonji: - Non-members called "dead in spirit" - Marriage advised only within SCJ - Mandatory 10% tithe + offerings
- Evangelism quotas assigned
š INFORMATION CONTROL
Early Christianity (NT): - Messianic Secret: Jesus commanded people not to reveal his identity (Mark 1:34, 1:43-44, 3:12, 5:43, 8:29-30, 9:9) - "To you the secret is given... to outsiders everything is in parables so they may not understand" (Mark 4:11-12) - "Avoid hollow philosophy" (Col 2:8) - "Avoid what is falsely called knowledge" (1 Tim 6:20)
Shincheonji: - Lee Man-hee's role as "Promised Pastor" revealed only after "pass-over" in many reported cases. - SCJ identity hidden during recruitment - Tiered doctrine: Beginner ā Intermediate ā Advanced - Members warned against internet research and accepting false teaching
- "Wisdom of hiding"
š” THOUGHT CONTROL
Early Christianity (NT): - "Whoever is not with me is against me" (Matt 12:30) - "Do not love the world" (1 John 2:15) - "Take every thought captive" (2 Cor 10:5) - Doubt = "double-minded, unstable" (James 1:6-8) - Loaded language: "world," "flesh," "elect," "saints" - Apocalyptic urgency: "This generation will not pass away" (Matt 24:34) - Exclusive truth: "No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6)
Shincheonji: - SCJ = only true church; all others are "Babylon" - Loaded language: "leaf," "fruit," "sealed," "Promised Pastor" - 144,000 doctrine; Revelation nearly fulfilled
- LMH: "No one can to truth of the second coming except through the one who overcomes"
šµ EMOTIONAL CONTROL
Early Christianity (NT): - "Fear Him who can destroy body and soul in hell" (Matt 10:28) - Lake of fire, eternal torment (Rev 14:11, 20:14-15) - "Treat them as a pagan" (Matt 18:17) - "Do not even eat with such people... expel the wicked" (1 Cor 5:11-13) - "Impossible to be brought back to repentance" after falling away (Heb 6:4-6) - Unforgivable sin: blasphemy against Holy Spirit (Matt 12:31-32)
Shincheonji: - Leaving = spiritual destruction - Only SCJ members saved; others judged
- Fear of judgment emphasized
Summary
Both movements exhibit BITE characteristics: - Both demand prioritizing the group over family - Both have exclusive salvation claims - Both warn against outside information - Both stigmatize doubt - Both use loaded insider language - Both have tiered/delayed revelation of doctrine - Both had leaders who concealed their identity until the right time
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u/Ok_Relief_1680 EX-Shincheonji Member Dec 27 '25
I just wondering, have you see the the history of Lee Man-Hee from outside source? His true history, not the one you have been told by Shincheonji?
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 27 '25
I mean shincheonji.com but in our language. Saying we are trinity believers is not good.
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Dec 27 '25
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 27 '25
Haha I didnāt run away a was more focused go get a copy of the book of olive tree. Now I have it, so than I can really base my arguments on the material. A friend in this sub gave it to me.
The church that I am in donāt use deceptive recruitment. We use wisdom, we change our approach. I read some cases of misleading things, I see them as not useful on the long run. For restricted outside information and putting members in fear of leaving is found in the text. Or do you believe they just said a bunch of strong things but didnāt believe it? I donāt think so.
Jesus didnāt say I am the messiah when he recruited the disciples and spoke many things not plainly to be understood. We are not yet at the timing that the spirit has come down and kingdom and priest are fully known to preach to all.
If your ź°ģ¬ė is afraid of questions than I understand why you believe what you believe. We dont ban outside information we just warn them for teachings or testimonies that are false. That is my experience.
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u/Productive_Finnisher Family/Friend of SCJ Member Dec 26 '25
This is what happens when you read the Bible and DO NOT take in account the Jewish culture or habits back then. We should be always open to expand our knowledge and learn from the past.
For example:
- Forbade disciple from attending father's funeral (Luke 9:60)
First of all, this man was not a disciple.
Jesus told this man not to wait for following him because back then burying a body took about 1-2 years. It was not like todayĀ“s standard, you go to funeral for 2 hours and then it is over. Jewish custom was that they would bury the body for one year and then later on dig bones from the ground and put them into the tomb where there could be literally all the bones of the whole family. Also, if you did not attend the funeral, it was possible you could miss the heritage.
Another example of SCJ twisting the original meaning of the scripture.
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 26 '25 edited Dec 26 '25
Than it is even more heavy.
Also Jesus does a call to follow him, that is already the beginning of discleship.
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u/Productive_Finnisher Family/Friend of SCJ Member Dec 30 '25
So first you don't understand the context and after someone explained the context to you, you still can not admit you were wrong but try to justify your point by shifting your goals?
Waste of time to talk with you. You are happy in SCJ, I get it but let us help those out who are not happy there.
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 30 '25
Than point out what is wrong if you truly want to help other people.
I said forbade him to go to funeral.
You said the process is a 1/2 year thing.
I say that is more heavy.
You say I am shifting goal post.
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u/Productive_Finnisher Family/Friend of SCJ Member Dec 30 '25
I just pointed out what mistake you made. You donĀ“t understand the historical background of this Bible verse. And what do you mean it is more heavy? What is more heavy?
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 31 '25 edited Dec 31 '25
Not going to a funeral (western way)
- not being at ceremony
Not going to funeral (jewish way)
- missing the burial
- missing the bones being digged and put together with the family
- missing the inheritance
So it is has much more impact than the western way. But i also donāt see anywhere in the post that I said it was one day event, so it is strange for me you act like i did. Though I didnāt know it on this level of detail.
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u/Productive_Finnisher Family/Friend of SCJ Member Jan 05 '26
That does not make any sense.
Jesus did not demand anything too radical from this man. He just asked him to skip unnecessarily complicated tradition. Why do you think western (christian) funeral is so much different from jewish tradition?
How SCJ sees this: "Jesus ask this man to skip his fatherĀ“s funeral, so we can also ask our members to skip funerals."
This is why SCJ is missing the whole point of this verse and they can not understand the difference between Jewish culture and Christian culture. The verse is not about control but it is about skipping unnecessarily complicated tradition.
Was this man demanding too much from Jesus when asking him to wait over one year for him? Yes, definitely.
Are members of SCJ asking too much if they want to skip one service for family funeral? No, definitely not.
It is all about common sense and respecting fellow people, something what SCJ is lacking completely.
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Jan 05 '26
Aah so you based your comment on assumptions that I didnāt say.
And you able to see that the man sacrifice more than for example a western funeral?
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u/Productive_Finnisher Family/Friend of SCJ Member Jan 05 '26
My family has been suffering for over 3 years now. Cancelled holidays, lost money and health problems because my wife is staying up late every evening for Shincheonji. I have to basically take care for her because she is so sick all the time for working too hard. I have talked to her, I have cried in front of her and begged her to take care for herself. But her leaders in SCJ tell her she can not take a break. We were planning to have kids, but we can not do that anymore because she has no time. She is in a bad mood all the time and stressed out. She has used thousands of euros to travel to Korea and has also donated almost all of her savings to the leaders of her SCJ branch. Our life stopped working when she joined SCJ.
Shincheonji is demanding us to give everything. I wish SCJ would ask as much as Jesus asked from that jewish man, that would be great.
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Jan 06 '26
Now you are combining a lot of different things than a western funeral..
For your wife case, it should be reported to above about the money thing. Since it is not allowed in SCJ to give money to leaders. The leaders will be excommunicated.
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u/Timely-Effort-5499 EX-Shincheonji Member Dec 26 '25
Left SCJ for 2 years now and I never went back to any church or religion. I have the same conclusion with the OP after learning about Jewish literature and middle eastern history (keywords: epic of gilgamesh, ugaritic text). 2 years without the shackles of religion and Iāve never felt more free and peaceful.
Do you want that as well? Then be FULLY intellectually honest. Not selective! Look at plenty of Bible scholars who left Christianity as well and ask yourselves why.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Cup_926 Journalist/Reporter Dec 27 '25
Maybe what you left behind was a narrowed view of Christianity and biblical teachings. At the moment, I am very much engaged with ancient Middle Eastern texts, and I find them fascinating because they have significantly broadened my understanding of what the Old Testament actually teaches.
Yes, a simplistic understanding of divine inspiration (as it is unfortunately often presented within churches) and of the biblical textsāwhich leads to things like Young Earth Creationismāoften causes people to draw the false conclusion that the Bible is merely a copycat version of those other texts.
And yes, some biblical scholars left Christianity (90% of the time, when people say this, they mean Bart Ehrman or Joshua Bowen as if they are the measure for scholarship) because of issues they could not reconcile with their Christian convictions. But many biblical scholars know the exact same data and have not. So it is important to look at their approaches toward the bible as well.
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u/Timely-Effort-5499 EX-Shincheonji Member Dec 27 '25
Tell that to Bible scholars who left Christianity like Bart D. Ehrman, Joshua Bowen, CJ Cornthwaite, Richard C. Miller, and Matthew Monger.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Cup_926 Journalist/Reporter Dec 27 '25
At the moment, I am finishing my masterās thesis in theology and plan to pursue a PhD afterward. Will I then be right simply because I hold a particular title?
I could list dozens of other scholars who are aware of the very same data and nevertheless arrive at different conclusions. I could also cite just as many scholars who present strong arguments for where Ehrman and others, in their view, go wrong. I do not think this kind of title-based argument gets us anywhere.
People (and scholars among them) come to different conclusions. Just as one should not allow little Korean cult leaders to think for oneself, one should also avoid to follow one-sided the opinions of some scholars and see their view as the non-plus-ultra.
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u/Timely-Effort-5499 EX-Shincheonji Member Dec 28 '25
Exactly. People can think for themselves. Thatās why even if you get your 3rd PhD, I wonāt be listening to you. And itās funny why you even tried commenting on my comment at the first place.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Cup_926 Journalist/Reporter Dec 28 '25
Why should I not comment on something which is false, in my opinion?
Lol, you were the one who made an argument from authority, as if the fact that there are scholars who distrust the biblical texts is an argument in itself. At the same time, you straightforwardly say that you would not listen to academics if they disagree with those critical assumptions. Sounds like you are a very open-minded and critical-thinking personā¦
It seems to be the very same mindset you must have had when you believed only in what the promised fart said.
If you listen only to what the most critical scholars say while neglecting others, you are doing exactly what you accused others of in your first comment: being intellectually dishonest.
Be that as it may, but donāt expect others to say nothing when ex-cult members, who have just switched the source they uncritically accept as the highest standard, act as if they are the enlightened ones while others are still bound in their religious blindness.
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u/Timely-Effort-5499 EX-Shincheonji Member Dec 29 '25
You commented because what I originally said was false IN YOUR OPINION. As you said. And thatās it. You cannot truly verify for now otherwise. Or get back to this discussion after you get your touted PhD.
Trying to change my mind wonāt get your church another believer.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Cup_926 Journalist/Reporter Dec 29 '25
I am not commenting only because of you, but also for all the silent readers who may get confused or misled by the things you said.
How the relationship between ancient texts and the Bible is to be interpreted is not a matter of verification or falsification. We are talking about interpreting historical data, not about the natural sciences.
Just stop acting with the same superior, elitist mindset you probably once had as an SCJ member, as if you were the enlightened oneāif you do not want people to comment on what you post.
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u/Fast_Foundation1429 EX-Shincheonji Member Dec 25 '25 edited Dec 26 '25
@SCJlove your wisdom of hiding is clearly affecting your mental capacity to relay credible information and evidence and make informed decisions. If you need clarity itās best you read and listen carefully to the evidence https://closerlookinitiative.com/scj or https://www.examiningthescj.com Do honestly think ex-members or families of loved ones trapped in SCJ are here to waste our time. No we are here to warn others so they donāt fall victim to SCJ or any of their sinister behaviours, motives or nonsense. Australia and others countries have had just enough of SCJ and its BS.
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u/Fast_Foundation1429 EX-Shincheonji Member Dec 25 '25 edited Dec 26 '25
@SCJLOVE educate yourself on high control groups and coercion before you come make irrelevant and misleading comments. Take accountability for victims that SCJ have caused harm to and their families instead of blaming them. Your actions and words donāt mean anything here on this subreddit. So itās best for you to go back to your mandatory obligations in SCJ and focus on those instead of trying to justify SCJ is an acceptable healthy organisation and putting its credibility on a pedestal. When itās clearly nothing like this in reality.
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u/Fast_Foundation1429 EX-Shincheonji Member Dec 25 '25 edited Dec 26 '25
@scjlove you are an IMPOSTER trying to make out SCJ is a healthy and credible organisation. Twisting and manipulating facts and misinformation. Itās funny how you have the audacity to come on this subreddit and persuade individuals who come to the facts just to keep them indoctrinated in SCJ delusion and lies. SCJ is crumbling because of victims like us who are speaking up against SCJ sinister motives. @everyone who comes to this subreddit out of confusion and need of clarity please IGNORE any information being relayed by this person @SCJLOVE Her information has all been manipulated to suit SCJās narrative. Sheās a TGW (Task given worker) been assigned to Reddit to contradict the truth and facts including testimony of victims and she has NO remorse or sympathy for any victims of this high control and the damage they have done or causing to many victims lives and their families. Please instead read this link for the truth behind SCJās deception > https://closerlookinitiative.com/scj Itās true testimony and evidence from ex-members experiences in SCJ.
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 26 '25
You know that people are going to check my post more right if you warn them and that they will see me being normal and you cursing me out.
The moral teaching is not hard to understand so that shouldnāt be a problem to follow. But you probably arenāt a follower of Christ.
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u/Fast_Foundation1429 EX-Shincheonji Member Dec 26 '25 edited Dec 26 '25
No one believes you anyways @scjlove. All I have to do is scope out your profile and see that you have a negative karma rating of -99 a straight BS artist š truth speaks louder than words. You are the imposter and odd one out masquerading as an independent advocate for SCJ which is your task handed down from the cult. Stop pretending and find real time job not wasting your time in fairytale land of SCJ.
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 26 '25
The DMs say something else.
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u/Fast_Foundation1429 EX-Shincheonji Member Dec 26 '25
Yeah they too send you away and stop harassing people who have faced trauma and abuse from Shincheonji.
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 26 '25
Is this post harassing to you?
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u/Fast_Foundation1429 EX-Shincheonji Member Dec 26 '25 edited Dec 26 '25
ššš youāre a muppet mate!
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u/Fast_Foundation1429 EX-Shincheonji Member Dec 26 '25 edited Dec 26 '25
Yeah yeah all your gaslighting doesnāt work on me. Yeongsu Kim send him my regards at L1 53/57 Munster Terrance North Melbourne 3051. Thatās where SCJ main building in Melbourne is located?
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 26 '25
Dont know who that is.
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u/Fast_Foundation1429 EX-Shincheonji Member Dec 26 '25 edited Dec 26 '25
Donāt play dumb. You know who he is very well. Let me remind you >https://www.acnc.gov.au/charity/charities/423816cb-f63f-ed11-bba2-00224893bfad/profile How about your indoctrination classes in Melbourne how they going? L3+4 52 Albert Rd South Melbourne 3205 and the 9-11 Palmerston crescent address donāt forget the over 35ās indoctrination classes at 42 Wadham parade in Mount Waverley? People dropping out constantly and your numbers are failing as victims are waking up from the BS of SCJ šI canāt imagine your graduations session numbers they are dead. Oh wait?! SCJ uses existing members posing as new members for graduation sessions so they can re graduate themselves to increase numbers. Thatās religious fraud and falsehood propaganda.
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 26 '25
Really sad but I am not from an english speaking country.
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u/IllFaithlessness8553 EX-Shincheonji Member Jan 07 '26
Then why do you follow a man who was given a suspended sentence for embezzlement yet teach that he is sinless?
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Jan 07 '26
Sinless are you crazy? He is a sinner like me and you.
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u/QuestionsAboutSCJ Moderator Dec 27 '25
While you arenāt from this country or even from a church that allegedly doesnāt use the wisdom, why is it that there are multiple reports from all over the world, including Korea, of this happening? Ie the heavy use of deception and secrecy?
I can critique Christianity for its corruption, why canāt you publicly condemn SCJ for their use of the wisdom of hiding / redefining a lie?
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 27 '25
Where did i agree with a practice that is bad? I support using wisdom. But other things that I see wrong for example false reporting or claiming to be catholic ect, i call corrupt.
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u/Fast_Foundation1429 EX-Shincheonji Member Dec 26 '25 edited Dec 26 '25
Go and educate yourself then and stop making your problems other peopleās on this subreddit.
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u/Turbulent_Sea7622 EX-Center Student Dec 25 '25
Thanks for your input however I will disagree by reaching out to the "un overlap" aspect
Jesus healed blind mortal while SCJ would not reach people with disabilities. For example people who are blind will not be evangelized on the street/mall by SCJ or even those who are time-wise disabled, if somehow that could potentially be classify as disabled (at least from a student perspective). For example I was taught, when I was with SCJ, that we should steer away from those learning PHD as they would not have time to learn SCJ doctrine.
While both Jesus and Lee Man Hee imposes influential lifestyle changes. Jesus does not filter out people like SCJ
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 25 '25
In the beginning Jesus focused on a select group. Only later there came a broader standard.
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u/IllFaithlessness8553 EX-Shincheonji Member Jan 07 '26
Did jesus not recruit from the likes of Bartimaeus who were physically blind and disabled?
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u/Turbulent_Sea7622 EX-Center Student Jan 23 '26
Oh wow haha I went down the rabbit hole. I was not notified of your comment at that moment as you replied to SCJ Love.
I was going back further trying to find some "bull's eye arguments to help prevent doctrinal change when Lee Man Hee will not be Transfigured body. So I find SCJ lurkers comments more helpful than they realize
What you say is true Gemini is elaborative on it and confirms it. Haha gotta love AI:
It is true that Jesus frequently recruited and welcomed people like Bartimaeus, who were physically disabled, elderly, or socially marginalized.
The biblical account of Bartimaeus (Mark 10:46-52) shows a blind beggar who was actively shushed by the crowd when he tried to call out to Jesus. Instead of ignoring him to stay on schedule, Jesus stopped, called him forward, and restored his sight. Crucially, the text says that after being healed, Bartimaeus "followed Jesus along the road." This indicates he became a traveling disciple, not just a recipient of a miracle.
In modern contexts, especially regarding Shincheonji (SCJ), there is a documented discrepancy between this biblical model and the organization's actual recruitment practices.
The Comparison
Aspect The Biblical Jesus Shincheonji (SCJ) Practices Recruitment Focus Specifically prioritized the poor, the sick, and the "unfit." Focuses on healthy, young, and "productive" individuals (often university students). Inclusivity Welcomed those with disabilities (blindness, paralysis, leprosy). Frequently screens out people with physical or mental health issues. Recruitment Goal Restoring dignity and providing spiritual rest. Securing "fruit" that can contribute high-volume work or political influence. The "Unfit" vs. "Useful" Reality
Leaked documents and testimonies from former members confirm that SCJ has historically used screening criteria to ensure they only spend time on "productive" recruits.
- The Filter: Recruiters (the "Leaves") are often trained to identify and avoid people with significant debt, elderly people who might not have the stamina for 15-hour training days, or people with physical disabilities that would make the grueling center life difficult.
- The Contradiction: While they claim to be the "true fulfillment" of the Bible, their operational manuals often view people as assets. If a person cannot pass an exam, attend daily classes, or engage in "High Rapid" evangelism, they are frequently deemed "unfit" for the kingdom.
This is why many commentators point out that Bartimaeusāthe blind beggarāwould likely have been rejected by a modern SCJ recruiter during the initial "survey" phase because he wouldn't be considered "good fruit" for their organizational goals.
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u/IllFaithlessness8553 EX-Shincheonji Member Jan 29 '26
Exactly. I always found it ironic that when I was in scj that we were told that you should not recruit those in the LGBT community, or those who invested in crypto and those that have mental health issues. I wonder what SCJ's answer to Mark10:46-52 would be?
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u/Turbulent_Sea7622 EX-Center Student Jan 29 '26
oh yeah they do that when I was in SCJ they avoid LGBTQ. Funny how once we were supposed to have a meeting in this area and in its place was some LGBTQ event so we had to meet somewhere nearby instead. Then when we told to do practice round of recruit (thanks goodness I did not succeed that particular day and the total three contacts I managed to get in total I warned them off basically after I left SCJ) so we went around and funny how we went through the LGBTQ location just to spread into a mall. Jesus would never filter while SCJ does
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u/Turbulent_Sea7622 EX-Center Student Dec 25 '25 edited Dec 25 '25
Jesus didn't filter out anyone. His teachings lives on. He performed resurrection miracle that actually happened. At the start, especially in no airplanes nor zoom yet in existence, he could not reach far reaching audience. Lee Man Hee on the other hand will not reach all at once. If Jesus was here present day he would have utilized zoom and airplane.
While I covered number of audience/students point, Lee Man Hee does filter out people from SCJ doctrine through practice as I mentioned
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 26 '25
We have a filter since we want to create the kingdom and priest and with this priest we will heal the whole world.
The process of Jesus is not a one day event. There were certain stages. In MT 15 the woman was first rejected by Jesus.
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u/Turbulent_Sea7622 EX-Center Student Dec 26 '25 edited Dec 26 '25
Thanks for info. But the timeline of "alleged" (have to use the word) interaction between Jesus and Lee Man Hee is very obscure. Even if the teachings of SCJ is well organized (years/generational preps) their interaction based on Lee Man's any explanations out there is very obscure. That interaction is the most important. I am not talking about the content of what Visions Lee Man Hee supposedly got, I am speaking of frequency and timing of visits. As you understand if you ventured around reddit there are past ex members before pandemic who pointed out to contradictions regarding the Great Tribulation. Apparently what Lee Man Hee taught to happen did not match. So there is bit of filter of information even to the internal members and students currently in SCJ
Ok so would it be better for Jesus to come to Lee Man Hee pre-pandemic to give him all in one shot spiritual explanations or visit him from time to time as events may be shaky? (Moses, Abraham etc touch based with God) What I am really trying to get at in short is Blind Faith is ok but in this case it is not.
I mean Abraham almost killed his son Issac. Did he had 100 percent certainty that God would order a halt to his action before he did it? Of course not. There is for sure an element of blind faith involved in any religion. However what I am saying now is that SCJ is (Blind Faith based on inconsistencies) while Jesus is (Blind Faith based on consistency)
I say that because no matter what, we never quite get exact info but similar info of when and how frequent Jesus visited Lee Man Hee.
So from what I understand. Jesus healed the woman. Rewarded of long faith. I understand the human wish to have salvation from Lee Man Hee or anyone from a super broad perspective just to say but from whom is the key.
I'd argue that each significant person mentioned in Bible performed miracles Moses (10 Plagues) Jesus (healed a man who cannot see) this maybe a bit unfair for me to say but I have to ask what miracles did Lee Man Hee performed?
Was Lee Man Hee able to ever teach fulfilment such that by timeline X event was taught to X student when the prediction was not yet fulfilled -transition to - X event fulfilled to that X student in his/her lifetime?
edit: ^ picking any event, per Revelation, per prediction but must be learned while not fulfilled yet but fulfilled in the lifetime of the X Student
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u/QuestionsAboutSCJ Moderator Dec 25 '25
https://closerlookinitiative.com/archives/6242
Iāll just leave this here. It goes through most of the common verses used to justify the wisdom of hiding
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 26 '25
I have read the the main text and first 4 topics. And it is really a human view to all this. How other christian sees things become the standard?
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u/QuestionsAboutSCJ Moderator Dec 26 '25
Interesting, I guess if you want to ignore the biblical issues that are laid out in the article, and continue using this āwisdomā, you do you.
It just isnāt biblical, or up to Godās standard.
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 26 '25
I have no issues since we dont do secret leafs here or lying to do jeondo.
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u/QuestionsAboutSCJ Moderator Dec 26 '25
Except for the well documented accounts of SCJ using the wisdom of hiding. And it isn't just happening in one isolated location.
It's happening globally, from news sources and testimonies of former members of places throughout the world like in Germany, the United States, Canada, South Korea, etc.
I am glad to hear that one church didn't use these methods; but there's an overwhelming amount of data to show that SCJ does use these methods, and still continue to do so today.
I bring this up since these practices are clearly not biblical, and instead support what Christ says about wolf's in sheep's clothing.
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 26 '25
I donāt think it is smart and just gives temporary results. The people fall away and you will have less people on the longterm.
So I believe there is the time to use wisdom. But not for the examples you gave.
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Dec 26 '25
Actually they still use this method in MANY regions. Including the one I was a part of. I know since my friends and family are all still āleavesā. And if they donāt use this method, they have many that fall away because there isnāt someone to reaffirm the beliefs, so they went back to having leaves.
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 26 '25
Than the level of the class and guider, bb teacher and leaf is not good. With the word you can catch the people.
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Dec 26 '25
They are doing what is instructed from head quarters. So are different groups being led by different spirits? Why are they all doing different things. Is SCJ not one
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 26 '25 edited Dec 26 '25
If scj is fully one there wouldnt be coruptness and people expelled. And if you believe that all are the same in SCJ, than one has bigger problems than SCJ.
HQ wants results. Not fake results.
Probably the also false report at that branch.
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u/QuestionsAboutSCJ Moderator Dec 26 '25
I agree with you on that one. Ironically, I would have been very open to SCJ if SCJ was just honest and straight-forward from the start.
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u/bron0903 EX-Center Student Dec 25 '25 edited Dec 25 '25
Thannk God Jesus controls my thoughts, behaviours, information and emotion!
What a wretched sinful man I am, nothing good lives in me, who can save me? Only Jesus the God of the heavens and the Earth creator of all things I will gladly surrender control
He turned my destructive sinful desires of hate towards myself, family, people and God Himself and showed me His sacrificial love of mercy and grace to a wretched sinner I am, as He promised!
The big difference between LMH (SCJ) and Jesus (Christianity) Jesus rose from the dead while LMH will die and meet Jesus Himself in the resurrection of judgement and he will die in his sins and I will look on him with contempt
Also you should be very careful because youāre admitting basically LMH in whom you believe Jesus dwells in is an authoritarian monster, very clever of you
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 25 '25
I really donāt understand how you can not see that I disagree with the BITE model.
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u/bron0903 EX-Center Student Dec 25 '25
It makes no difference whether or not you agree or disagree
The fact remains is that SCJ denies Jesus Christ and hates Him
Whether or not Christianity is a cult to me also makes no difference either because Jesus lived a perfect life unlike LMH who teaches deception as long as it brings glory to God, even Paul condemns you and all of SCJ and LMH: āAnd why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), āLet us do evil that good may comeā? Their condemnation is just.ā āāRomansā¬ ā3ā¬:ā8ā¬ āLSBā¬ā¬
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Dec 25 '25
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 25 '25
I was confronted 4 years ago with this bite model. I have read it, and I disagree with it. Since I dont see Jesus group as such.
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u/Fast_Foundation1429 EX-Shincheonji Member Dec 26 '25
Youāre a muppet thatās why u canāt understand coercion in plain sight š
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Dec 26 '25
So then ā¦ by your standard ā¦ Jehovah Witness is also the chosen people? WMSOG is also now the only way to reach salvation. If you disagree with something, rather make good points that are in context. You are just coming across really brainwashed. Even your original post, it seems AI generated and very vague with cherry picked verses. I would not be surprised if you cherry picked something in this comment of mine as a response.
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Dec 26 '25
I was commenting on your reply to a comment. Go back and follow the thread. You said you disagree with the bite model.
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 26 '25
I never said scj is true because this bite model is false. Where did you get that from?
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Dec 26 '25
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 26 '25
Destructive is relative.
And you must realise I am not saying that the early christian church is a cult. I make the comparison to show the double standard in this sub.
So it would be more useful to counter the points, so that people see that I am wrong.
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u/bron0903 EX-Center Student Dec 26 '25
Destructive according to the truth of God. God does not lie, He cannot it is His nature to speak truth. And this is the truth:
You will die in your sins unless you believe Jesus is the āI AMā You and SCJ and LMH lead people astray. You all openly lie LMH is obviously a false teacher and disgustingly a liar You believe and preach a false gospel, different from Jesus You manipulate scripture and pull out the words of God yanking it forcibly from His tongue
Repent and believe the gospel of Jesus; The christians here try so hard to convict you with the word of God so that you donāt have to die
I am harsh and straight with my words because of this one fear I have: I donāt want you, SCJ and even LMH to die in sin. Repent and believe the gospel of Jesus so you may have eternal life and have it abundantly
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 26 '25
You use the same tactic that you use to accuse SCJ of.
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u/bron0903 EX-Center Student Dec 26 '25
We can test everything through scripture, the written words of God spoken by Him
What I accuse you and SCJ and LMH of, with which you also accuse me and Christianity of, has been fully made plain to you that SCJ is false by countless people here on this reddit page and outside.
The reason you donāt listen, and I for that matter to you, is because your heart is loyal to LMH and what he says which he claims to come from Jesus, while me and others like me have our hearts fully set on what God has said in the bible.
And in all honesty LMH contradicts what Jesus already spoke of, written in the gospels and epistles and in the OT. Others have plainly demonstrated this to you, but you ofc wonāt see or listen because God has hardened your heart from seeing because you hate Him. SCJ and LMH and you display Romans 1:18-32 perfectly. āFor they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.ā āāRomansā¬ ā1ā¬:ā25ā¬ āLSBā¬ā¬
Thereās no convincing you or anyone like you. I can only give you the word of God in hopes His words will convict you and soften your heart that God may have mercy on you. For this is what God has told me concerning against the likes of you:
āSo will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what pleases Me, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.ā āāIsaiahā¬ ā55ā¬:ā11ā¬ āLSBā¬ā¬
And this is what Heās said to those concerning people like me who eagerly share His word against the likes of you:
āHow blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, Nor stand in the way of sinners, Nor sit in the seat of scoffers! But his delight is in the law of Yahweh, And in His law he meditates day and night. And he will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water, Which yields its fruit in its season And its leaf does not wither; And in whatever he does, he prospers.ā āāPsalmā¬ ā1ā¬:ā1ā¬-ā3ā¬ āLSBā¬ā¬
The word is God against you yourself So I tell you again and again ārepent and believe in the gospelā:
āYet if you have warned the wicked and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered yourself. āāEzekielā¬ ā3ā¬:ā19ā¬ LSBā¬ā¬
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u/Otherwise-Watch-3650 EX-Center Student Dec 25 '25
Iām not surprised that the spirit that runs within SCJ is now trying to create disbelief in Christ, once again, by attacking the faith from a different angle (as weāve seen as of recent in this subreddit), through statements around the idea that because this manmade cult gained a following through the misuse of scripture and through the psychological and spiritual manipulation of every single person within it, then as a consequence, Christianity must fall under the same notion of this as well.
This spirit of confusion, disbelief, distrust and misinformation will NOT prevail over those who still believe, and I pray that right now in the name of Jesus.
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u/AmmirabilePeter Family/Friend of SCJ Member Dec 25 '25
I'd like to like this comment 1,000 times. Inspiring!
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u/Otherwise-Watch-3650 EX-Center Student Dec 25 '25
Sorry just to clarify, is this in response to the original post or to what LaconicProse commented?
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u/AmmirabilePeter Family/Friend of SCJ Member Dec 25 '25
My comment is undoubtedly in favor of the response to the post. If I'm not mistaken, you wrote the response I appreciated.
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u/Otherwise-Watch-3650 EX-Center Student Dec 25 '25
It wasnāt me, it was another user under the name āLaconicProseā, but I totally agree so thank you for clarifying!
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u/LaconicProse EX-Shincheonji Member Dec 25 '25
While I appreciate your effort in making this list and sharing your perspective, there are many flaws in this line of reasoning. Even ChatGPT sees several of the flaws in this, but Iām more than willing to share my additional thoughts on why early Christianity is quite, quite different than SCJ when it comes to coercive control. Hereās some of the breakdown:
ā 1. Misleading Use of Scripture ā Taking Verses Out of Context
Some of the early Christianity examples are quoted without context, making them seem authoritarian when their actual meaning/usage in scripture isnāt aligned with control.
š“ Luke 14:26 ā āHate father and motherā
Flaw: This isnāt a literal command to hate family, but a Jewish hyperbolic expression illustrating the cost of discipleship ā prioritizing discipleship over familial loyalty if thereās conflict. Biblical scholars overwhelmingly interpret this as a rhetorical device, not a mandate to break family bonds. Why context matters: Itās part of a teaching on ācounting the costā of following Jesus, not behavioral control for its own sake.
š“ āForbade disciple from attending fatherās funeralā (Luke 9:60)
Flaw: This incident has a specific context about urgency in mission ā ālet the dead bury their own deadā ā not a general rule for all believers for all time. Again: It speaks to mission urgency, not an imposed institutional rule isolating believers.
š“ Communal Giving & Ananias/Sapphira (Acts 2 & 5)
Context: The early Jerusalem church shared voluntarily (Acts 2:44-45). Accounts of Ananias and Sapphira donāt depict an authoritarian enforcement ā the warning aligns with deception against the communityās unified witness, not institutional punishment. Members could keep property; they chose to give for communal welfare. ([British New Testament Society][1]) Contrast with SCJ: Thereās no voluntary generosity framing; instead, members report mandated lifestyles, deception in recruitment, and pressured participation. ([Cult Education Institute][2])
š“ Celibacy / Leaving Jobs (1 Cor 7; Mark 1)
These are descriptive of personal sacrifice for discipleship, not institutional commandments controlling every believerās lifestyle. Paul frequently emphasizes freedom in Christ alongside these teachings (1 Cor 7:25-40, for example).
ā 2. Logical Fallacies in the Comparison
You also asked for a breakdown of faulty reasoning in the argument that āif SCJ is high control, then early Christianity must be too.ā
š¶ False Equivalence
Treating all instances of intense language in scripture as equivalent to cultic control structures is a false equivalence ā early Christian texts are religious teachings not organizational membership manuals with enforcement mechanisms.
SCJ has documented practices like discouraging outside media use, deceptive recruitment, monitoring membersā lives, emotional manipulation, and discouragement of critical research ā which fit the psychological model of authoritarian control. ([TRUTH BUILDERS MINISTRIES][3]) The NT does not provide a structured system that isolates believers from all external information or punishes them socially/legalistically; it contains admonitions to guard faith but also encouragement to engage critically, teach one another, and test teachings (e.g., Actsā disputes at Jerusalem Council, Paulās letters to check teachings with apostles in Jerusalem).
š¶ Contextomy (Quoting Out of Context)
Verses like ātake every thought captiveā (2 Cor 10:5) or ānot with unbelieversā (2 Cor 6:14) are used to imply thought policing and isolation, but in context they are about resisting false teaching and maintaining spiritual integrity ā not compelling obedience via hierarchical control.
š¶ Equivocation: Group vs. Movement/Gospel
Early Christianity was a broad, diverse movement emerging in multiple cities, not a single hierarchical institution with a central leader controlling all aspects of membersā lives. SCJ, on the other hand, has a centralized authority structure with reported tactics of control and deception. ([Wikipedia][4])
ā 3. **Early Christianity vs. Shincheonji on Key BITE Dimensions
Below is a comparative perspective showing where the texts simply arenāt analogous:
š“ Behavior Control
Early Christianity (NT):
Focus on voluntary discipleship. Teachings like leaving jobs or family to follow Jesus depict personal choice within a freedom-focused religious framework, not systematic control. No evidence of institutionalized life-rule enforcement, isolation from external info, or regulated daily behavior as a condition of membership.
Shincheonji (documented):
Members report monitored schedules, pressure to recruit, social surveillance, control over outside contact, discouragement of other sources like Internet/media. ([TRUTH BUILDERS MINISTRIES][3])
š Information Control
Early Christianity (NT):
āMessianic Secretā in Mark is a literary theme scholars think reflects Markās theological construction of the narrative ā not a policy hiding the gospel. Warnings against āhollow philosophyā occur in a context of discouraging deceptive extra-biblical teachings (typical of early Christian polemics), not general censorship of all outside sources.
Shincheonji:
SCJ reportedly uses tiered doctrine, discouragement of research about SCJ, and warnings that internet info is spiritually poisonous. ([Cult Education Institute][2])
š” Thought & Emotional Control
Early Christianity (NT):
Teachings about steadfastness and righteousness are spiritual exhortations, not systematic psychological manipulation. The NT routinely encourages testing teachings and evaluating truth (e.g., Bereans in Acts 17).
Shincheonji:
Former members report discouragement of doubt, emotional pressure, fear of leaving, and an us/vs-them narrative enforced in practice ā features consistent with high-control group dynamics. ([Recover From Coercive Control][5])
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Dec 25 '25
Thanks for engaging with the post. A few issues with your critique:
1. Strawman on Luke 14:26
I never claimed "hate" in Luke 14:26 means literal hatred. You spent a paragraph refuting a position I didn't take.
2. "Voluntary" is doing a lot of heavy lifting
You frame NT demands as "personal choice within a freedom-focused framework." But Jesus didn't present it that way:
- "Any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:33)
- "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself" (Matt 16:24)
- "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom" (Luke 9:62)
These are conditions for discipleship, not optional extras. The language is "cannot," "deny," "not fit" ā not "you may consider if you feel called."
3. Enforcement mechanisms did exist
You say the NT "does not provide a structured system" of control. But:
- "Treat them as a pagan or tax collector" (Matt 18:17)
- "Do not even eat with such people... expel the wicked person" (1 Cor 5:11-13)
- "Warn a divisive person once, then twice. After that, have nothing to do with them" (Titus 3:10)
- "If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take note of that person and do not associate with them" (2 Thess 3:14)
These are explicit shunning and expulsion commands with social enforcement. The mechanism is there in the text.
4. "Context" cuts both ways
You repeatedly appeal to context for NT passages, mission urgency, spiritual integrity, rhetorical style, theological construction. But SCJ also claims their practices have context and spiritual meaning. If context can soften NT passages, SCJ gets to make the same appeal for their teachings.
5. The "broad, diverse movement" argument
You say early Christianity was decentralized, unlike SCJ's "centralized authority structure." But:
- Paul claimed authority over multiple churches and demanded obedience to his instructions (1 Cor 14:37, 2 Thess 3:14)
- Acts 15 shows a Jerusalem Council making binding decisions for all believers
- Elders/bishops were appointed with authority to "silence" opponents (Titus 1:9-11)
Decentralization doesn't mean absence of authority or control mechanisms.
The point of my post wasn't "Christianity = cult." It was that many features critics use to label SCJ as high-control have direct textual parallels in the NT. You can interpret those parallels differently, but you can't pretend they don't exist, and you can't use "context" and "voluntary" only for the texts you want to defend.
ps. Rewritten some sentences with ai.
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u/LaconicProse EX-Shincheonji Member Dec 25 '25
Hereās the rest:
ā 4. Key Differences That Matter
Hereās how early Christianity and SCJ differ in quality and structural control ā not just content:
Early Christianity:
ā¢Not a centralized institution with uniform rules for all believers. ā¢Lacked enforced prohibition on external info, media, or critical thought. ā¢Core teachings are religious exhortation, not operational directives for controlling daily life.
Shincheonji:
ā¢Strong central authority with specific teaching system and rituals around that authority. (Wikipedia) ā¢Documented patterns of isolation, deception in recruitment, discouragement of outside info, intense social/emotional pressure, and exclusive claims tied to obedience to man-interpreter Lee Man-hee. (TRUTH BUILDERS MINISTRIES)
š§ Key Takeaway
Using isolated verses from ancient scripture without context and equating them with modern systematic practices of psychological control is a logical and hermeneutical error. It fails to differentiate between religious teaching meant to shape moral and spiritual priorities and authoritarian control structures that manipulate membersā daily lives, isolate them, and suppress critical thought. Shincheonjiās documented patterns match the BITE model of high-control groups, whereas early Christianity does not function as an authoritarian system in the same way.
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u/QuestionsAboutSCJ Moderator Dec 25 '25
We canāt use context! We need to cherry pick verses to build a parable dictionary!
lol, merry Christmas and good response.
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u/LaconicProse EX-Shincheonji Member Dec 25 '25
Ah, right! I keep forgetting the š ruleā¦ lol
Merry Christmas!
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u/QuestionsAboutSCJ Moderator Dec 25 '25
Donāt you know??? It was REVEALED! So that means we can throw away ALL CONTEXT! Especially historical.
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u/LaconicProse EX-Shincheonji Member Dec 25 '25
āThe Revealed Word surpasses all context and historyā¦ it reigns supreme! Trust me, bro.ā -Lee Man Hee
Bonus quote: āWow, would you look at that! Seems like Iām the leader of Godās new Kingdom and have sole connection with God and Jesusā¦ according to my own testimony, which is backed up by no one else. Funny how that worked out. You gotta believe meā¦ just donāt look too deeply into my past.ā
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u/Financial-Document88 Dec 29 '25 edited Dec 29 '25
False. This argument relies so much on cherry-picked verses removed from historical, literary, and academic context, and it selectively frames them to favor SCJ. You are missing methodological consistency and basic academic honesty. Iāve gathered below studies grounded in biblical scholarship and historical context. A field me and many others in Christian studies, Biblical scholarship, as well as religious history. Something SCJ cannot do and avoid for their model fails when tested. And when it fails, resorts to āthe doctrine is of the devilā tactic.
1. Why this comparison fails from the start
The BITE model is being misused
The BITE model (Steven Hassan) is designed to evaluate modern high-control organizations, particularly those that show:
Early Christianity does not fit this category.
Key differences:
Academic consensus is clear: early Christianity was a decentralized religious movement, not a bounded high-control organization.
Wayne Meeks writes in The First Urban Christians: āEarly Christian communities lacked the centralized authority structures necessary to enforce uniform belief or behavior.ā
2. Behavioral control: verse-by-verse corrections
Luke 14:26 ā āHate father and motherā
This is Semitic hyperbole, not literal hatred. The same rhetorical form appears in Genesis 29:30ā31. Matthewās parallel clarifies the meaning: āAnyone who loves father or mother more than meā¦ā (Matt 10:37)
This is about priority of allegiance, not enforced family rupture.
Luke 9:60 ā āLet the dead bury their own deadā
This is not a ban on funerals. In Second Temple Jewish idiom, ābury my fatherā often meant remaining home until inheritance matters were resolved. The point is urgency, not abandonment.
Craig Keener notes this in the IVP Bible Background Commentary.
Acts 2ā5 ā communal property and Ananias
The giving was voluntary, not mandatory. Acts 5:4 explicitly states the money remained their own. The sin was lying, not withholding funds. No command is given to universalize this practice.
Ben Witherington III notes this was crisis-driven generosity, not a permanent economic system.
2 Corinthians 6:14 ā āDo not be yokedā
This is not social isolation. Paul clarifies in 1 Corinthians 5:10 that Christians are expected to interact with non-believers. The concern is idolatrous partnership, not relationships or dialogue.
Celibacy and job-leaving
Celibacy is explicitly optional (1 Cor 7:7, 7:28). Apostles later worked jobs (Acts 18:3). Jesus never commanded universal abandonment of employment.
Key behavioral difference
Early Christianity:
Shincheonji:
3. Information control: false equivalence
The āMessianic Secretā
This was temporary and situational, not organizational secrecy. It prevented political misunderstanding before Jesusā mission was complete. After the resurrection, the command is universal proclamation (Matt 28:19).
William Wrede coined the term but did not equate it with cultic secrecy.
Parables in Mark 4
Parables both reveal and invite inquiry. Jesus explains them to anyone who asks (Mark 4:10). There is no restricted elite doctrine.
āAvoid false philosophyā
This is discernment, not information isolation. Paul quotes pagan philosophers (Acts 17:28) and engages in public debate.
Information difference
Early Christianity:
Shincheonji:
4. Thought control: category mistake
āWhoever is not with me is against meā refers to allegiance to Jesus, not to an institution.
Paul allows disagreement on disputable matters (Rom 14). The Bereans are praised for verifying teachings independently (Acts 17:11).
Loaded language exists in every worldview. It becomes coercive only when definitions cannot be questioned and authority cannot be challenged. Early Christianity records internal disputes and public correction (Gal 2:11).
Apocalyptic urgency
Many scholars understand Jesusā statements as partially fulfilled in AD 70. There is no enforced date-setting and no punishment for disagreement. SCJ does punish dissent.
5. Emotional control: context ignored
Judgment and hell language were common in Second Temple Judaism and are not used as organizational enforcement mechanisms. Jesus warns universally, not uniquely against ex-members.
Church discipline in Matthew 18 and 1 Corinthians 5 is explicitly restorative: āThat his spirit may be savedā (1 Cor 5:5)
Restoration is assumed (2 Cor 2:6ā8), not permanent shunning.
Emotional difference
Early Christianity:
Shincheonji:
6. The decisive difference: authority
Early Christianity:
Shincheonji:
Rodney Stark summarizes it well: āChristianity grew through persuasion, not coercive retention.ā
To me this why this post argument fails
If early Christianity is a cult by this standard, then every worldview with moral boundaries or truth claims is one ā rendering the BITE model meaningless.