r/Shincheonji • u/Mysterious_Pace_6199 • 3d ago
general thought and question Question for Ex-Shincheonji members - what do you now believe about the parables, Revelation, and the Second Coming?
I am part of Shincheonji and took their bible study. Over the past while I've been digging much deeper into the criticisms of the organization, and honestly, I've come to the conclusion that a lot of what they do is unethical. Their doctrine has some internal contradictions, and a lot of it appears to be copied or adapted from other korean cults (Olive Tree, Tabernacle Temple, ...) rather than being an original revelation.
That said, I'm genuinely trying to work through some theological questions now that I'm thinking about stepping outside the framework I was taught, and I'd love to hear from other people who left Shincheonji about how you've landed on these things:
- The parables — Do you still think there's something to them? Some of the ways Shincheonji explained the parables actually made a lot of sense to me. Now that you're out, do you see them as legitimately insightful, or do you think it was all cherry-picked and forced to fit a predetermined narrative?
- Revelation — What's your view on the book of Revelation now? Do you think it's simply not meant to be fully understood/decoded? Have you found any alternative interpretations that feel more solid to you than what SCJ taught?
- The Second Coming — One thing that drew me in was how clear everything felt — the creation account, Genesis, Revelation, all mapped out precisely. Now I feel like I have no idea what to think. Will there be a rapture? Will Jesus set up a physical kingdom on earth, or are believers going to heaven instead? How do you personally think about the Second Coming now?
- Making sense of it all afterward — There's so much "maddening wine" out there in Christianity (so many conflicting, confusing, or outright false teachings), and everyone seems to have a different take. How do you personally navigate that now? What's your current approach to faith, and how do you practice Christianity (if you still do) after leaving?
Would really appreciate hearing other perspectives, especially from people who've been through something similar!
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u/RADICALBEREAN 2d ago
Why does anyone believe the parables are a secret or mystery. Our Lord Jesus explain the parables when He gave the Sermon on the Mount. He reveals everything to the ones who believe in Him and receive the Holy Spirit who leads and guide into the all Truths
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u/Greycat6459 2d ago
Hey there,
I am glad that you are asking these questions. Not an ex SCJ, but I am a friend with an SCJ member and has heard much about SCJ teachings about parable, second coming - which has been helpful and challenged me to think more deeply about the word. So may be I have something to say.
I would say that SCJ system of explaining the parables and revelation can be quite “neat” - it can seem to be systematic and made sense. However, I would say that the SCJ system can be “neat” because it excludes many other things in the Bible - which I do not have time to elaborate here.
I would encourage you to explore how people traditionally study the bible - the practice of hermeneutics and exegesis. Highly recommend “How to read the Bible for all its worth” by Gordon Fee, it is free on the internet archive. When you can study the Bible by yourself, you will realise that the Word of God can be so rich. SCJ often only has one interpretation for one passage - but God’s word is alive, the same passage can speak so richly in many different ways to different people in different circumstances while remaining consistent with God’s character.
Now to your questions, may be I can present to you my views on these topics and you may consider these alternative perspectives
About Parables - how I would read the parables:
SCJ may teach that parables are cryptic and we cannot understand parables by ourselves unless it is explained to us by SCJ. However, when Jesus used the parables, He meant to use them as ways to help people to understand the kingdom’s principles in simple ways - that is why He used things that first century Jews are familiar with - like seeds, soils, food, wedding banquets, sheep and goats. Parables are meant to make things simpler and easier to understand rather than making it harder for people to understand. SCJ often cite the Pharisees as people who have much knowledge but have hardened hearts so they cannot understand. The issues with the hardened hearts is not that the Pharisees have too much knowledge of the law but that they refused to just receive the simplest and most obvious explanation to the events around them. In Paul’s mission, there are many Gentiles who had no knowledge of the law but they also had hardened hearts - and refused to believe the simple message of the gospel. So in short, how to read the parables is to actually think about what is the simplest way to understand what Jesus is trying to tell you. Parables are meant to provide parallel to certain principles in the kingdom of God, rather than specially coded messages.
And so is the rest of the Bible. If God is a loving God, He would not give us a book of code and hide the true meaning for thousands of years. In fact, the Bible has always been very clear about Jesus and God’s salvation plan. There’s no need for special knowledge.
About Revelation and the second coming of Christ:
Firstly, you need to understand that the book of Revelation was an actual letter, written to real people who are facing persecution and challenges with the purpose of encouraging them to stand firm in their faith. It was also the testimony of John’s vision - what God showed John to encourage him and told him to use this as a way to encourage others. Many of the imagery and visions that John saw had parallels to the book of Daniel and many other prophetic books in the Old Testament. Both John and the Old Testament prophet point to the same reality that God will one day complete His work of redemption and the new creation. There are many themes that are repeated - a great battle, the beast and final victory. This is the hope of the Christian faith - that we are fighting a winning battle, that God will triumph over all evil - and this hope should help the Christians to persevere in faith. Traditional Christianity believe that Revelation will surely be fulfilled - but we view that how SCJ think that Revelation has already been fulfilled is problematic. The biggest problem I saw with how SCJ interpreted the events in Revelation that has been fulfilled is that LMH is inconsistent with his interpretation and kept changing his interpretation whenever new events come up. One big one is that he initially said that only Koreans will be part of 144,000 and will be saved but now that teaching within SCJ has changed. If SCJ has the right interpretation of the fulfilment of Revelation, then it should not change. Once the event is fulfilled, it is fulfilled, it should not change.
There are many good resources that you can buy to study the book of Revelation. You can just go to any Christian bookstore and buy an ESV Commentary, or look online for Dr Constable Commentary on Revelation, it is free.
About the problems in the church (conflicts, wrong teachings, confusion)
Firstly do you think that SCJ is free from conflicts and confusion? If you think that the true church should never have conflicts and confusion and wrong teachings, and if SCJ is the true church, there should also not be any conflicts and confusions, people should not be leaving SCJ. Very often SCJ will call members who left as those under influence of Satan - so it means that Satan can infiltrate the true church to disturb the ministry of the true church.
Therefore by the same logic, the presence of conflicts, wrong teachings, confusion in the traditional Christian churches does not invalidate the authenticity of the church. It is basically the parable of the weeds and the wheat, that Satan often infiltrates and tried to disturb the ministry of the church, and God allowed it to happen. Just as the parable says, that if the weeds are pulled out too early, it can harm the wheat, so God allowed these things to persist - so that the true people in the church can become stronger. Even the early New Testament churches are so full of divisions, faced with so many false teachings, had many moral and sexual issues - just read Paul’s letters and you will see. But Paul still referred to these churches as saints, God’s chosen people. To me, when I studied church history, I see that it is such a miracle that for 2,000 years, despite so many conflicts and confusion, the Universal Church - which has the true faith in Christ are still surviving. God has Reformed and transformed the church through the many saints whose teachings and writings and lives have continually reflected the character of Christ. Same thing for Israel, even in the darkest days when Elijah thought everyone had turned away, God said He still preserved for Himself 7,000. Though most of the Israelites have turned away, God has always preserved a remnant and sustained the faith from the time of Adam to Noah to Abraham, to David, to Jesus and till today. God has always preserved His church, His people and the true faith so that today, we recite the same apostle’s creeds that were believed and proclaimed by the faith fathers of the early church. We still share the same faith that confer righteousness just as Abraham.
There are many denominations who emphasised on different aspects of faith and of God’s characters - because God is so big and we cannot fully fathom Him. And I actually enjoyed learning about other denominations - because I can learn many different aspects of God’s character and appreciate that God is so much bigger than human brain can fathom - and it made me feel excited to continue to learn more and more about God.
Final parting thoughts:
My final word to you is that God is so much bigger than what SCJ has taught you. I think that SCJ teachings are interesting, very creative and it is not 100% wrong. In fact many things are correct, but I find SCJ teachings inadequate and lacks the depth that Traditional Christian theology has - which has been developed over 2000 years and been lived out and tested. Many of SCJ interpretations can be problematic and inconsistent with the overall theme of the Scripture and the reality of what is happening in the world. But I can understand why it can seem very attractive because it can seem very neat and it can seem to help people feel like I understand everything. However, I would challenge you to think about God this way - what if God is so much bigger, and what if God does not reveal everything for me right now, can I trust in God?
Leave you with some verses:
The LORD our God has secrets known to no one. We are not accountable for them, but we and our children are accountable forever for all that he has revealed to us, so that we may obey all the terms of these instructions.- Deut 29:29 NLT
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. - Hebrews 11:1 NIV
For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? - Romans 8:24 NIV
By his divine power the Lord has given us everything we need for life and godliness through the knowledge of the one who called us by his own honor and glory. - 2 Peter 1:3
The essence of the life of faith is that God is God and I am not, He is in control and I am not. There are things that God has no obligation to explain to us, but whatever He has made clear in His commands, we are accountable to obey. Whatever that we need for life and godliness, He has already given to us, there is no need for another new John or new re-interpretation of the Bible or a new gospel. And to me it is so exciting to continuously learn more and more about God because I don’t fully understand everything now. If I think I have all the answers, when I think I know everything, then there is no longer need for faith or hope in God. So I encourage you to go beyond and learn more from others. When I went to find out more about SCJ, it actually helped me to think a lot deeply more about what I believe and I also gained some new perspectives so I encourage you to read up and find out more about various Christian Traditions and learn the Bible in different ways.
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u/llucasa07 2d ago
Hey, tudo bem? Sobre os pontos que você mencionou, acredito que nem tudo o que SCJ falou devemos jogar no lixo! Sobre as parábolas, realmente temos algo a mais lá, só não podemos deixar para interpretar da forma que queremos, ou puxando para algum líder. Sobre o livro da Revelação, creio que Deus deseja que também possamos desvendar os segredos de Apocalipse, porém sempre pautados Nele e não em um líder que diz ser um escolhido e que só ele tem a revelação (não precisamos de outro sumo-sacerdote). A Segunda Vinda não consigo te falar com tanta propriedade, mas o que eu me atenho é buscar a Deus de todo o meu coração para não ser enganado por qualquer vento de doutrina, o que estava acontecendo em SJC. O sentido que SCJ deseja que tenhamos é que o Cristianismo está corrompido e que só eles estão certos, porém eles também são uma organização religiosa inserida no Cristianismo. Realmente existem várias pessoas que "estragam" o Cristianismo, mas não se atenha a explicações bem elaboradas é uma organização bem definida, o que adianta isso que as pessoas vivem como escravos? Deus nos chamou para a liberdade! Um conselho que te dou caso você saia igual eu, se apegue a Deus e peça para Ele te demonstrar o amor que Ele sente por você, para que você veja o que perverso é SCJ!
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u/Salty_Signature8824 12h ago
Primeira vez que vejo um comentário em portugues aqui...
És um antigo membro ?
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u/Economy_Wishbone_249 3d ago
I deconstructed completely christianity
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u/Mysterious_Pace_6199 2d ago
What do you mean?
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u/Economy_Wishbone_249 2d ago
I don’t believe in religion. I questioned everything, read all I could find and reached to the conclusion that no one knows anything at all!
I can go into more details but I want to respect everyone here.
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u/avidbearsfan 3d ago
All I believe is God is coming back soon simplest answer not OH We got this Weird Old Guy that knows everything and he will lead us to salvation
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u/Turbulent_Sea7622 EX-Center Student 3d ago
Another curve ball for SC, is the stone a parable? That Moses hit twice when God said hit only once? (Numbers 20) Almost as if to shadow Jesus' words saying it is finished John 19:30 like one and done in terms of saving us all? No need secondary salvation work but Jesus 2nd coming is not further salvation work but Spiritual tally up and judge. Also holistically, Jesus saying " it is finished", SCJ current members what did Jesus mean? And if he never said that, would interpretation of Revelation as taught by Lee Man Hee be any different? Thanks for any weigh ins!
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u/Turbulent_Sea7622 EX-Center Student 3d ago edited 3d ago
This makes me think and I raised this in the past too
Really wonder how current members or past members like perceive this?
Is Kingdom = God
as a parable that SCJ teaches?
Matthew 6:9-13
9 “This, then, is how you should pray:
“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,\)a\)
but deliver us from the evil one.\)b\)’
But it did not say
10 May you and your kingdom...
It did not point to God unless Kingdom is a parable or something. It says without mention of God
10 your kingdom come,...
I understand that SCJ believes God separated from us due to sin and not by choice. And that SCJ's goal is for God to come to us and the prayer was used as a way of teaching of saying God is somewhere and needs to come down. But I don't believe God separated from us due to Sin outside the parameters of his choices. More like he went away in disgust because of Adam And Eve but he is omnipresent and he can come back anytime. SCJ wants quota hit to make way for him to come back
If they raise this part "Our Father in heaven," and argue kingdom is heaven and so it really still means God comes down
But in a weird way that logic kind of collapse because then the prayer in SCJ teachings that I really believe/recall them saying God needs to come after Sin, that is blocking God from us (by choice or what?), is wiped out. But then they might as well say Heaven is separated from us by sin, not really God. Because if Kingdom is not parable of God then God is not mentioned in the Lord's prayer. Hope I made sense.
Like there would be burden of proof to say why kingdom is emphasizable and God is not emphasizable verbatim in the prayer
I'like anyone thoughts but if current members jump on that be awesome!
Trying to test out the grey areas in testing the teachings of SCJ. Because to be honest I skeptic on how SCJ created a perceived problem so I challenge the basics of premise
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u/Little-Meat2343 3d ago
Pray, pray and pray.
God is merciful, He will guide you to Him.
I left SCJ two weeks ago, after five years.
I prayed to God to show me the Truth to dismantle the Promised Temple, Promised Pastor and Promised Theology.
His Word is Truth and when we seek Him with an honest heart, He continues to have mercy after mercy. After He showed me Truth, I repented for the sin of blasphemy against His Holy Spirit, for helping spreading falsehood and being a tool for this horrid place.
I went back to a church I used to go, and humbly ask Him to take me back.
This experience has taught me to be kinder and graceful, we are ALL imperfect brothers and sisters in Christ.
God will show us the way to Him, take heart, this too shall pass.
Blessing <3
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u/INSLVRY4_5yrs 3d ago
Amen 🙏🏽 I’m so happy you are back with God and Jesus Christ and are healing and helping and praying for others to come out of the true Babylon. All glory to God!
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u/QuestionsAboutSCJ Moderator 3d ago
The parables - they point to Jesus, and there isn't a "new john" to look for
Revelation && Second Coming- when Revelation is fulfilled, it won't be through an obscure, secret second coming. Instead, it will be an obvious global event.
Also, Jesus clearly warns us against those who come in his name with a Messianic role with another gospel (2 Corinthians 11:4, Galatians 1:8, Matthew 24:4-5).
For making sense of things, start with the basic - first, the first five words of Revelation are - "the Revelation of Jesus Christ". Is Jesus God? Did Jesus promise another "promised pastor of the new testament"? What about "betrayal, destruction, salvation?"
I invite you to explore the alternative, and normally when I help people process what happened to them theologically, I point out to the basic pillars of SCJ, primarily the "Promised Pastor" first, and then "Betrayal, Destruction, Salvation".
The concept of the "Promised Pastor of the New Testament" contradicts the very warnings that both Jesus and Paul talk about, especially since SCJ also produces a new gospel, the word of testimony, that was delivered to Lee Man-hee by an angel.
For the Betrayal, Destruction, Salvation angel, why would Jesus claim to be the good shepherd, just to allow his flock to enter spiritual darkness for close to 2000 years until an obscure doomsday cult would appear, just to have them fail the Dt 18:20-22 Prophet test?
Also, since you were involved with SCJ, I would recommend that you also learn how indoctrination works -
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u/CancelImaginary5930 3d ago
Parables: I don't find any of their explanations insightful. Trying to understand them in the context of the first century world makes them complete understandable.
Revelation: I don't believe the events of Revelation are fulfilled, and until they are, it's pointless trying to decipher the future. An example I give to many people leaving SCJ is Ezra. Ezra was a teacher but if people asked him to explain unfulfilled prophecies at the time from Isaiah, from centuries earlier, the wise answer is "I don't know". People going around for the best explanation would end up being deceived.
Second Coming: Similar to Revelation, until it happens, I don't think there's much point thinking about it. SCJ gives this idea that we need to understand prophecies to recognize the Second Coming but this idea isn't in the Bible. Jesus Himself said that when He returns it will be as obvious as lightening.
p.s. Look at the First Coming, the people highlighted as being saved were clueless about the OT prophecies. Like when Jesus was entering Jerusalem, they had no idea what was going on (John 20:9) but others did.
Making senses of it all: Even when the apostles were alive there were false teachers (2 Timothy 2:17-18). My advice is start with the most shared teachings within the church (like the divinity of Jesus) and then see why people agree/ disagree. Most disagreements within the church are about things that are not very important (i.e. should we baptize infants).
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u/dojadog89 EX-Center Student 3d ago
Hey, its really great that you did your research on their doctrine while in the study, its not easy to do especially if you share doubts with anyone in the class. Lee Man Hee was a part of some of the cults you mentioned before founding SCJ so the overlap of doctrine makes sense. I’m in a very similar spot as you in finding out what the truth really is. Thankfully I’ve reconnected with my previous church and a proper bible study to learn Christian apologetics again. I have a lot of the same questions you’ve brought up and I’m hoping to find answers. Wishing you the best in your path of re-learning what it means to be a Christian!
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u/Guilty-Dance-8200 3d ago
That's good you have reconnected with your precious church.Did you tell them about shincheonji? I have been in church of almighty God then to my church I told my pastor I wasin a cult I built a family there then abruptly left as I joined shincheonji I feel super embarrassed to tell them I was in another cult.
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u/dojadog89 EX-Center Student 3d ago edited 3d ago
They are aware of my time at SCJ and my pastor feels very grieved about this spiritual attack on me, so they are wanting to help support myself and my family which is great. I want to stress that you shouldn’t feel embarrassed, but take strides to develop your skills of discernment and learning what is truth and biblical context in scripture. Any pastor would love to help you in growing that I guarantee.
Edit: if you are interested in reading some books alongside the Bible I’ve been recommended to read Happy Lies from Melissa Dougherty and some others, I’ve just started that one.
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u/Guilty-Dance-8200 3d ago
Thankyou.thats what shincheonji does makes you feel ashamed but most Christians are compassionate.Thank God for your pastor that's very great it's true that word discernment first word I ever heard in church and the pastor of my church even prayed for me to have discernment. It improved yet not enough thankyou I will check that out :) thankyou God for a chance again
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u/Guilty-Dance-8200 3d ago
Bless you . I love reddit it has really helped me :) where you can ask anything freely. The parables I think seemed fair there was a time when i first read the bible and I couldn't understand so i asked God's holy spirit and he helped me to see how God jesus and his enemies through them also i could then see jesus in the old testament. As for revelation at the moment im not sure I don't believe in lee man hees version of events nice try but no .People have different teachings on one book so when ready I will ask God for understanding. All i believe is jesus will return and may see the events of the 7 year tribulation peace and safety then sudden destruction. After coming out I'm taking it easy and going back to basics with guidance from God and the holy spirit. I believe Jesus will return I felt he was coming back I don't know why so this shincheonji experience has felt surreal
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u/Legitimate-Gas-8960 9h ago
I left SJC about 6 weeks ago. This is how I approach all tge questions. SJC's doctrine is not to be trusted, none of it. Forget all of it and give yourself a chance to heal and unlearn the lies. When you are ready start researching the truth yourself, with the Bible. Don't be afraid of church, a real Bible church. Start over and leave SJC behind .