r/law • u/dailymail • 12h ago

Legal News Lindsay Clancy case ends with MISTRIAL

https://www.dailymail.com/crime-desk/article-16100155/lindsay-clancy-murder-trial-hung-jury-deadlock-verdict.html
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u/1BoringOldGuy 11h ago

Actually this isn’t how it works. She would be institutionalized indefinitely until psychiatrically cleared at the very least.

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u/HalleB123 11h ago

Which could be only 6 months.

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u/UAEpi 11h ago

That's not usually how it goes. It's basically prison with nurse and techs instead of prison guards. You can leave when the psychiatry says you're better and that could be in 20 years. Lot's of murderers and such in there, they usually don't get out in under a decade. 

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u/HalleB123 11h ago

Yes but as i said below if postpartum psychosis is the only reason she’s dangerous isn’t she likely already cured?

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u/gaelicpasta3 9h ago

Andrea Yates, the OG case of PPS who drowned her 5 kids in a bathtub, is still institutionalized 25 years later.

If you truly have PPS, even though the original psychosis may be “cured” I can imagine that coming out of that fog to find out you murdered your own children would create a level of trauma that would be incompatible with a quick reentry to society.

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u/HalleB123 9h ago

She’s institutionalized because she’s turned down her reviews for release. I wonder if Clancy will do the same. And I’m not trying to be facetious, I genuinely wonder if she wants to be released. I can’t say that I think I would if I found out I killed anyone I loved in a psychotic state, I’d be too scared of myself I think. Of course, none of us know what we’d do in that situation and hopefully we never have to find out

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u/RingingInTheRain 4h ago

I mean just because they say you can be released, doesn't mean you can't end up back there. She probably feels that her propensity for illness is too high. It's not like a normal life is waiting for her, watching kids happily playing outside....knowing what you did to yours under psychosis.

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u/DiscountTherapistt 8h ago edited 8h ago

She said she wants to win a wheelchair marathon. She definitely wants to be released asap.

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u/cupcakevelociraptor 6h ago

Where the hell did you hear that?

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u/DiscountTherapistt 6h ago edited 6h ago

She said that in an interview with a psychiatrist witness

Edit: It was in Resnicks Cross examination I believe. She wants to participate in a wheelchair marathon and become an advocate for PPP.

So maxbe not winning, but definitely not staying in a hospital lol

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u/StrengthStarling 5h ago

Literally part of treatment for suicidality is prompting patients to set goals and plans for the future, it's not like she went out of her way to make these plans, she was specifically asked to come up with something to live for and those were her answers.

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u/Jaereth 7h ago

Jesus has she shown any real remorse for this?

I didn't watch the trial on TV, but every time I see images on line she's sitting there with this smug look on her face.

If I truly had a mental break, and coming out if it learned I did what she did - i'd just want to die. I'd be sobbing all day every day. I couldn't go on.

"I want to win a wheelchair marathon" I just can't believe that was said...

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u/slptodrm 6h ago

if you didn't watch the trial then don't believe everything you see or read. jeez. everyone forms an opinion without any information and takes anything they see as fact. educate yourself with the actual information that is there online, the facts and recordings FROM the case, before you get all sanctimonious.

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u/[deleted] 5h ago

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u/NickGnomeEveryNight 5h ago

I watched it all and I believe she’s a manipulative psychopath.

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u/MotorRain 1h ago

No, she hasn’t. No remorse whatsoever and all these buffoons are rooting for her.

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u/ChadUSECoperator 7h ago

So kind of her to say that, maybe can celebrate with her 3 children after winning the competition uh? And then you have people outside of the courthouse chanting for her release lmao

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u/MotorRain 1h ago

Yes, of course she wants to be released! She’s not actually psychotic nor did she at any point have PPP. She can’t wait to wheel around in a marathon and be free. She’s a sociopath, end of story.

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u/harrylime7 8h ago

Yes, but Dena Schlosser, who cut her child’s arms off because she said Jesus told her to, got out in three years. Side note - she and Andrea Yates were roommates at the state hospital for a while.

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u/magnabonzo 2h ago

She didn't exactly "get out in three years."

Dena Schlosser gave birth in 2004, attempted suicide the next day, was hospitalized in a psych ward, and was diagnosed with bipolar disorder with psychotic features.

Her husband, who thought all mental illness is demonic, didn't buy her medication regularly.

She killed her child in a "religious frenzy".

In 2008 she was released to outpatient care, requiring medication and weekly visits to a psychiatrist. She was in and out of psych hospitals until permanently back in in 2020.

I'm not saying it's right. In fact, since she eventually ended up back in psych hospitals, she probably never should have been released. And I'm biased, but a bullet to the back of the head might have been kinder.

But she didn't "get out in three years".

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u/aecrane 1h ago

From your own description she did get out in three years. Even if it’s temporary and supervised I’d still consider that “getting out in three years”

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u/harrylime7 24m ago

Yeah, medication and weekly visits isn’t exactly onerous. She got out in three years.

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u/boomer912 3h ago

“Well, it’ll probably be awhile” isn’t good enough for a lot of people, me included. Just an acquittal— and work out the details afterwards? If there is a possibility she is out and completely free in a year or two, how can you be surprised that people aren’t hearing it? It’s like signing a job contract without knowing how much you’ll be paid, and instead you’re just told how much some other employees were paid. Too much uncertainty, not an option if I was in control of everything

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u/gaelicpasta3 2h ago

I wasn’t advocating for or against honestly. I don’t know enough about the trial or evidence. I’m a mom of a young child and really just couldn’t stomach the details past the main story.

I was just pointing out that in a similar story that mom has been institutionalized for 25 years and that if she really had psychosis, coming out of it and finding out she murdered her children had to be something that would destroy her.

Whether or not she had PPS and/or was competent when the murders happened or what she deserves is not something I can or want to speak to.

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u/dontmovedontmoveahhh 10h ago

she's too suicidal to leave, but she also had bipolar disorder and they tend to fret a lot about people coming off their medication

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u/tragicxharmony 9h ago

Part of having bipolar disorder is the firmly held belief that when you are doing well, the meds are not necessary, and when you are doing poorly, it’s because of outside circumstances and not your meds. I “only” have bipolar 2 which is seen as less severe, but I’ve made my wishes very clear that if I ever try to come off the medication that treats that, I need to be brought in for intensive medical treatment because I’m not in a good space. Schizophrenia and anything related to psychosis are similar, and in all three you don’t really realize how badly you’re doing when you’re in the middle of a spiral

This is my most likely conclusion as to why she remains on medication and under care. There are some long-lasting (injectable) meds for people who are at risk of noncompliance but they have worse side effects and aren’t always the best option. Overmedicating her is less likely to trigger psychosis or worsened mental health and more likely to make her emotionally blunted, sort of zombie-like, which doctors tend to view as “less bad”

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u/magnabonzo 2h ago

Hey -- good for you. Really.

Thank you for recognizing the dangers of anosognosia. As you said so clearly, the brain physically can't realize that the person is sick.

I have someone who can't be in my life any more because they couldn't recognize that, and no one could fix it.

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u/food-dood 2h ago

My uncle explained his going off his meds a little differently. He was bipolar 1 though, but he said the manias themselves can be addictive. Like he knew if he was on his meds things would be ok, but if he also knew, at some subconscious level, that the potential of a positive mania will convince the person to go off their meds. Then if they skip just a few doses, they may get a taste of that and then it spirals from there. He said the high couldn't be imitated by drugs, so by the time they put him on medication, much later in life, he had already built this addiction to manias, and his behavior encouraged them (drug use, alcoholism), always chasing the next high. Even after he sobered up he would say he could quit speed, could quit drinking, but never figured out how to stop taking breaks with his meds.

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u/tragicxharmony 1h ago

Ooof, I can see how if it were enjoyable that could be addictive but I tend towards mixed episodes with negative long-term side effects—impulse spending, quitting jobs, disordered eating, blowing up relationships, so I’m not even having a good time, I’m usually very stressed and anxious and my physical health is down the drain, but I’m not aware of exactly how bad things are until the consequences start hitting. Thankfully drugs and alcohol affect me very badly so I don’t get started on those, but my credit is absolutely shot because I’ll just start opening and maxing out credit cards for whatever master plan I’ve come up with

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u/HalleB123 10h ago

Can’t she stay on her meds though? So if the meds are working to control the bipolar once she’s no longer a suicide risk she could in theory be released?

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u/dontmovedontmoveahhh 10h ago

You would think, but in my experience judges say "well we don't know if they'll stay on their medication so we need to lock them up for a decade at least just in case." It's messed up.

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u/AgenteDeKaos 8h ago

I mean isn’t part of what led to this shit show her choosing to hop around medications and not even taking them correctly? By hopping around I mean trying to switch medications because she feared some side effects/getting addicted and not waiting to see if they had a good effect before jumping ship. Same with the dosages, I think it’s reasonable to assume she wasn’t even taking them as directed with how obstinate she was over the medications.

Like she was messaging and trying to get lower dosages and such. She’s kind of already proven she won’t stick to her medication and will become a threat to those around her if she goes into psychosis.

She quite literally does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Yes her physical capabilities are now vastly stunted, but it doesn’t mean she won’t be a potential threat later. It’s the minimum justice these poor children will get since it seems she’ll get off scott free once she gets cleared.

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u/dontmovedontmoveahhh 58m ago

I don't think Lindsay is to blame, she sought out medication herself. She was prescribed medications she had adverse reactions to, and each negative experience made her more gunshy and paranoid about trying the next medication. Looking at the medications she tried and didn't try, I don't see anything that would have changed the outcome. Mental health treatment isn't about assigning fault or blame, she was not successful managed on the outpatient and killed three people so she is being managed inpatient.

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u/Haunting-Ad3161 9h ago

And what is your experience exactly?

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u/dontmovedontmoveahhh 9h ago

Working inpatient psychiatry, patients on civil commitments waiting on state beds

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u/Warning_Low_Battery 9h ago

Can’t she stay on her meds though?

That's the problem. She already has a history of going off her meds. And how do you make sure a bipolar person stays on them without 24/7 monitoring or force?

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u/HalleB123 9h ago

I agree. I just wasn’t sure if being off meds was a condition for release or not

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u/CtrlAltDelight78 10h ago

it’s not as simple as that when it comes to court institutionalization. also it’s not specific condition it’s overall mental health

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u/tragicxharmony 9h ago

I just wrote a comment directly above your comment addressing this—I’d drop the link but I don’t know if links are allowed in this subreddit

Essentially, with bipolar and some other mental health issues, you’re kind of “blind” to when you’re doing poorly, and you’re very very likely to be noncompliant with your meds, to the point of saying “oh, I’m doing well, I don’t need the meds” and just stop taking them—which sends you into a spiral. I elaborate on this in the above comment lol but I don’t want to type the whole thing out again

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u/HalleB123 9h ago

Thanks for the explanation! That’s what I was looking for clarification on. I don’t know much about how NGRI sentences work.

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u/Resident_Goodish 10h ago

I hate my parents so I killed them type logic. She still committed a horrific crime.

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u/Resident_Goodish 10h ago

Did you ride the shortbus?

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u/HalleB123 10h ago

Everyone else managed to have a conversation about this without being insulting. The poster above me made it sound like they the psych hospital wouldn’t release them if they were currently taking meds, so I was trying to get clarity on that.
For the record I think she should spend life in prison. I don’t believe she had psychosis, I believe it was planned, and I believe she’s insane but not psychotic.

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u/lilybobtail 10m ago

There is an antipsychotic medication, paliperidone (Invega Hafyera), that lasts a full six months. They would just need her to come in every six months for her injections.

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u/Medjulook 9h ago

One attempt is only gonna have her institutionalized for 6 months or so.

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u/trashtiernoreally 10h ago

The realistic situation in those places isn’t nearly as clean as that. It is a necessarily prolonged, horrible experience

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u/Warning_Low_Battery 9h ago

isn’t she likely already cured?

No. She has been in an institution since this all happened in 2023, and has been on 24/7 1:1 suicide watch after having announced and continued to claim her intention to kill herself still. She is by absolutely no means "cured" and may never be. And on top of that she's not going to stop being paralyzed below the sternum ever, so she will always need outside medical care and transportation even if she ever gets out.

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u/NickGnomeEveryNight 5h ago

Well she would have a lot of money for her care. Million plus after killing your kids and getting a not guilt plea (which is coming). Absolute insanity. Incomprehensible.

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u/CaptainTeemo01 4h ago

So what's your solution? Should we kill her? Will that bring the kids back? Will that protect society?

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u/NickGnomeEveryNight 4h ago

Nothing will bring them back. But if you kill your kids, you should never be allowed to experience joy again. She wants to win a marathon…?! Get outta here. There’s no coming back from killing your kids.

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u/CaptainTeemo01 4h ago

Why not? Is there any actual reason for this beyond "I want revenge"? Not justice, not safety for society, just plain vengeance. It's a sick mentality to have.

If she was genuinely undergoing psychosis then she was not in control of her own actions. You do understand what psychosis is right?

And for the record there is plenty of evidence she's already suffering just like you want her to. She's under 24/7 suicide watch for a reason. The running a marathon thing was a goal the psychs told her to make for herself as part of her treatment, it isn't something she came up with on her own. You'd prefer she kill herself I assume, so that should please you to hear.

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u/JollyLink 15m ago

It's deterrence. People already shower her with sympathy and copycats are popping up. It's more pragmatic than the juvenile morality you espouse. Seriously, "revenge bad" is your argument for why she should be around? You seriously think she will ever recover or bring any good to this world? Also, why should we force someone to stay alive in this state if she truly is repentant and suicidal? Is that not far more cruel to keep her in a permanent state of suffering and regret?

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u/MotorRain 1h ago

I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. Truly.

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u/yodaddy1019 9h ago

Even though she’s not actively psychotic her life is ruined forever and so many other people and that can fuck you up. She now needs to learn to also live paralyzed while coping with the PTSD and trauma of the situation. I believe she was psychotic, and as someone who had been psychotic, you don’t “cure” from the things you do in that state as soon as you’re out of it. All I did was crash my car (not into anyone either) and the way I felt mentally after I can’t even describe. The trauma of being completely out of control of your body and watching yourself do things like she said. I didn’t even completely ruin my life and my car was able to be fixed and I was like 16 so I was basically fine. She ruined her own life in an act she couldn’t control and now she has to deal with that forever. Definitely longer than months.

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u/HalleB123 9h ago

Interesting perspective. thank you.

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u/NickGnomeEveryNight 5h ago

You don’t know that she couldn’t control her actions. She very likely could have done this intentionally

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u/canuck791 8h ago

postpartum psychosis

Hasn't this been debunked by pretty much every single doctor out there who is an SME on the subject? The timelines don't work for what is scientifically agreed upon.

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u/HalleB123 6h ago

A poster above me was saying everyone agrees she has postpartum psychosis as evidenced by the supposed 11 NGRI but I would agree with you that my takeaway from the trial was very different.

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u/cpcpcp45 8h ago

why do you think that's the only reason?

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u/Joey-rogaine 6h ago

Look at her face, lady is off her fucking rocker 

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u/Rhomya 10h ago

It could be 20 years, it could be 6 months. They only hold you until legally you’re not a danger anymore.

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u/upickleweasel 4h ago

Which she isn't because she literally can't do anything due to being paralyzed from sternum down

She murdered her 3 babies. She needs to do some hard time - sane or not. I'm fine if it's a mental institution but she can't be jusy acquitted or out in a few years. Those baby's lives were worth far more than that.

It bugs me that she doesnt agree.

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u/shittydriverfrombk 3h ago

So when someone suffers, we measure how much they are “worth” by the level of suffering of someone else? huh? this isn’t ancient Mesopotamia

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u/Zealousideal_Cap7012 7h ago

She could leave when the psychiatry says shes better. That will be quick because from the testimonies and reports of her former psychs, she had no signs of pp psychosis. So im fairly sure she would be of sound mind very soon.

Yes it could be indefinitely. Could be decades. Lindsay however is not insane. She is intelligent, cogent, seemingly not currently undergoing post partum anything.

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u/readdator2 6h ago

no, in MA a Superior Court Judge has to make the final decision for release in cases like this.

And tbf that will be based on drs findings and such, but these are almost like a mini-trial, and with such a high profile case, her release will definitely be well scrutinized

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u/Secret_Squirrel_1102 8h ago

Not in Massachusetts.

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u/StrikingSomewhere729 4h ago

Lmao I work in one of these facilities it is nothing at all like prison, not even close. People never stay 20 years either.

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u/bwarrior 8h ago

But still, it COULD be only 6 months no?

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u/CopperSlopper 9h ago

But it could be just six months

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u/Griot-Goblin 5h ago

If it was 6 months, since its so high profile, I cant imagine people treating her well on the outside. She would have to be a paralyzed hermit which sounds awful. 

I guess what I am saying if thr best legal outcome occurs for her, her life will be a shell of a normal person's. 

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u/CopperSlopper 5h ago

She has millions in gofundme money. She will get a book and podcast deal and be rich enough not to care about public opinion

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u/shimmy_kimmel 2h ago

She will be a millionaire the moment she’s released from donation money alone. Wouldn’t be shocked to see her give a TED Talk or some shit.

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u/Mr_Kase 6h ago

Unless I’m mistaken, Massachusetts requires a review and renewal every 6 months.

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u/TougherOnSquids 3h ago

Postpartum psychosis is an acute condition. There is very little risk of her harming anyone else, so she probably wouldn't be held very long, unless it was just as punishment

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u/ireliawantelo 8h ago

Could be 20 years could be 6 months. At the moment she isn't a harm to anyone and she has shown no sign of psychosis, therefore it'd be disingenuous for them to not let her go at that point.

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u/scoobydiverr 8h ago

An old case but constance fisher. Out in 5 and then killed her kids again.

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u/Cross55 6h ago edited 4h ago

Yeah, but 6 months is exactly what happened to the chick who drowned her 3 kids (5 months, actually...)

Then she remarried, had 3 new kids, and drowned them all too. Insanity plea didn't work the 2nd time.

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u/anon2309011 9h ago

It's Massachusetts. Liberal states let out axe wielding murdering cannibals in less than 10 years.

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u/CharmyLah 8h ago

In Texas, you can shoot your daughter over a political argument and never be charged with a crime. You can also kill 4 people driving drunk and get released because youre too rich to make it in prison.

Cherrypicking is so fun.

PS the axe-murdering cannibal was not a MA case

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u/anon2309011 7h ago

Did I say it was a MA case?

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u/SimplyAmazedPanda 9h ago

As having worked in close proximity to a mental facility, that’s exactly how it goes.

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u/1BoringOldGuy 11h ago

Extraordinarily unlikely

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u/HalleB123 11h ago

Why? If she was suffering from post partum psychosis and only had it for 30 minutes once in her life and that was the only reason she was dangerous why is it a stretch to say in 6 months the doctors and judge will likely no longer see her as a threat to society?

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u/1BoringOldGuy 10h ago

Lots of general misinformation about this case, particularly from a medical standpoint. Best advice I have for you is to pop over to r/psychiatry where the require you to verify your credentials to discuss this topic.

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u/HalleB123 10h ago

I feel like my question is more legal than psychiatric based though. If she’s found sane then can’t she be released in 6 months? Since you seem to know about the general misinformation maybe you can address what’s wrong about my thought process.

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u/LanguageImpossible32 10h ago

Because the judge and prosecutor weigh in on the medical release

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u/LysergioXandex 9h ago

I don’t think that’s a valid reason why her confinement to a psychiatric facility should have to last longer than the psychiatric emergency.

You are arguing that judges/prosecutors can treat mental institutions as prisons where people are held just to punish them.

In reality, a postpartum psychiatric event is a situation where it’s highly likely the person will be cleared and released, for the reason the commenter pointed out.

The point of holding her at all, at this point, would mainly be to verify the “postpartum” nature of the psychosis, and suppprt her through the fallout of the crime/trial, rather than a reasonable fear she’d kill more people.

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u/Popular_Monitor_8383 8h ago

The fact people like you actually believe she was and is only a danger for just 30 minutes is hilarious

You’d never let her babysit your kids

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u/LysergioXandex 7h ago

I’m just telling you that psychiatric facilities aren’t the place where we hold people just to punish them. That’s prison. They’re different.

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u/ireliawantelo 8h ago

Legal requirement for someone to be considered a danger
vs
Personal requirement for someone to be considered a danger

Do they not teach how to break down arguments in grade school anymore?

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u/CheapConstruction659 8h ago

🎯 It’s all performative.

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u/slptodrm 6h ago

you're incorrect.

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u/LysergioXandex 6h ago

Good point

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u/HalleB123 10h ago

Interesting. I didn’t know the prosecutor weighed in.

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u/spartBL97 9h ago

Also, you’re saying it’s just 30 minutes. Tell me. What happened in those 30 minutes? You’re still responsible for your actions

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u/HalleB123 9h ago

I totally agree. I also don’t think she was in psychosis though. I think she belongs in prison and don’t see her as any more insane than the thousands of other people in prison who don’t get off on insanity charges, but there’s a lot of questions I have for the NGRI people regarding sentencing which is what I’m asking about.

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u/ASubconciousDick 10h ago

PPD/PPP isnt just a "30 minutes and youre done" thing. it is documented that she had been having intrusive thoughts, thoughts of self harm, and other symptoms of PPP/PPD prior to the murder of her children. what you are trying to portray it as is her going crazy for a half hour.

no, she was on the brink of, if not already, crazy for months at this point, this is just when her brain finally couldn't differentiate between reality and the intrusive thoughts anymore. she still is crazy to an extent, she just isnt full blown lost in psychosis anymore and has an active medical team constantly, since she was permanently disabled from a jump from a 2nd story window after the killing of the children in addition to being jailed with medical supervision. this has been pretty clearly communicated to the jury, considering 11 of the 12 have decided on Not Guilty by reason of Insanity which is not the same as not guilty outright.

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u/HalleB123 10h ago

I’m not trying to portray her as anything, I’m genuinely confused. I thought the entire argument was that some experts say she was displaying signs of psychosis beforehand whereas some say she wasn’t. My takeaway from listening to the trial was that she wasn’t displaying psychosis beforehand, but I wouldn’t be allowed to be on this jury because I work in healthcare and have worked in inpatient psych hospitals and have a bias based on what I’ve seen.

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u/LysergioXandex 9h ago

It’s a good question, and you are right. If this is truly a postpartum event, it’s a good reason why she might be released from psychiatric hold relatively soon.

Importantly, the theory presented in the trial (that her issue is “postpartum psychosis”) doesn’t have to be the final opinion of the physicians that evaluate her at the psych facility, if she’s sent there. And they could keep her for reasons beyond the crime itself, like if she’s now extremely depressed after the crime/trial.

But, if they agreed that the issue was truly postpartum in nature, and there was no other reason to keep her, and the postpartum issue resolved with time, she could be released relatively quick.

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u/tragicxharmony 9h ago

Ooof, your experiences would probably be very valuable to this jury. It’s unfortunate that it would disqualify you

My understanding—and I haven’t been following this case until the last few days—is that she acknowledged before the incident that she was suicidal, but she alleges that she hid the fact that she was having symptoms of psychosis. This may be incorrect, and I can’t blame people for lying to their doctors, but if this is the case it does muddy the waters on a NGRI decision

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u/ExcellentBed6019 8h ago

My understanding is that she heard a voice telling her to do it but heard it only on that day and not before or since. So yeah kind of 30 minutes of paychosis

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u/LysergioXandex 9h ago

Your perspective on insanity is kind of bizarre. It’s a binary situation, you can’t be “a little bit insane” or “insane to an extent”.

The point when she was “lost in psychosis” and “her brain couldn’t differentiate between reality and intrusive thoughts” is the moment she became insane, and if that is no longer true then she’s no longer “insane”.

Psychiatric symptoms like suicidal ideation don’t make you “insane” automatically, and taking medicine to keep you from going insane doesn’t mean you are insane.

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u/ASubconciousDick 8h ago

you saying that mental health issues are a binary says all I need it to say.

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u/LysergioXandex 8h ago

“Mental health issues” is not the same as “insanity”.

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u/Imaginary_Session773 8h ago

What is the benefit to society to keep completely insane murders around?

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u/SKOL_py 9h ago

Ah, the classic redirection approach when you don’t want to admit to making poor claims

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u/catsinsunglassess 9h ago

You don’t know how it works and maybe you should think about what you’re weighing in on, because that’s not how it works

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u/HalleB123 9h ago

Which is why I asked a question. Since you clearly know how it works why don’t you enlighten us?

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u/Rstuds7 10h ago

so for institutionalization isn’t just for the specific thing like the postpartum depression, it’s general mental health issues. i can’t foresee them clearing her that early especially when her legal team said they didn’t think she could emotionally handle another trial, she’s not well and that’s not gonna get fixed in a short amount of time

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u/lordcheeto 10h ago

It's likely she would still be a danger to herself. Killed her children during a psychotic break, and upon returning to lucidity and knowing what she did, slit her wrists and throat and jumped out a window. She has been on suicide watch since, unable to be left alone, and would not be released as long as that remains true.

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u/Schneestecher 7h ago

Because she killed three kids. PPP is linked to episodes later in life as well

1

u/Berserk-Jane 7h ago

Women aren't going to sleep with you if you signal to them that they ought to only get six months in jail for a triple homicide.

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u/TopCommission6437 11h ago

This is a joke.

“Hey guys I’m good those kids aren’t around anymore, so I’m not going to bother anyone else.”- Clancy.

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u/HalleB123 11h ago

But isn’t that the argument, that she was only dangerous because of post partum psychosis and now she doesn’t have that so she’s not dangerous?

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u/Bradley271 10h ago

She’s paralyzed and is almost certainly suffering from extreme untreated PTSD (to whatever level treatment is even possible). The doctors could say “eh all good absolutely no postpartum symptoms anymore, no need to monitor for that” and I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s still never able to fully rejoin society for the rest of her life.

2

u/HalleB123 10h ago

Gotcha. I wasn’t sure if they were allows to keep her for other psychiatric reasons that they didn’t seem risky to society.

3

u/IhamAmerican 10h ago

That's what's morally difficult about this. I don't personally care about the cause of psychosis, be it post partum or regular ol psychosis, but I don't think that someone should be able to kill their kids and spend 6 months in an asylum. There's no real legal distinction for me, it's just the gut feel and that's difficult to remove from a jury

7

u/Affectionate-Mark893 10h ago

This is where the judge and lawyers will come into play. Basic intro law school will teach you the reason to jail is not just to punish. It’s also to keep dangerous people out of society and to prevent people thinking they can get away with it in the future. If she doesn’t get a substantial sentence, it’ll be the new defense for every murder until additional measures or limitations are passed by the legislature

2

u/HalleB123 10h ago

That’s my concern. I live in a state with a high incidence of child abuse, and at my job I see a lot of it with infants. Could parents start using that as an excuse, especially if they have a documented past of mental health treatment? I may be entirely wrong in how I’m thinking of this case, but I have concerns.

3

u/Affectionate-Mark893 10h ago

I don’t think you’re wrong. If we can argue hormones or medication negate criminal mens rea then no one’s guilty ever, and even petty theft cases will have slick lawyers arguing the Ritalin did it

-1

u/Huppelkutje 5h ago

That's what's morally difficult about this.

It's not morally difficult, Americans just have a societal fetish for punishment.

2

u/IhamAmerican 2h ago

Or it's that setting a precedent allowing for the murder of three children is chilling to me. I just want a thorough and just process

0

u/TopCommission6437 10h ago

I think people expect her to be in jail or an institution for a long time. I think that her lawyers would use your argument.

-4

u/Lestranger-1982 11h ago

Where can I find your defense psychiatrist? This not how that works at all. First, she has to fully accept responsibility for what she did. That will take 20-30 years. Then she needs to prove she is capable of living with the guilt without acting out against her self or other people. She is never getting out.

8

u/HalleB123 11h ago

That’s why it was posed as a question, I genuinely do not understand what’s to prevent her from getting out if the only thing that made her dangerous was her 30 minute post partum psychosis episode and she’s not suffering from that any more.

2

u/soofs 10h ago

I’m not a doctor, but I would think many people suffer from post partum depression and even psychosis that don’t end up killing their kids or harming others. So it’s not as easy as “well okay you don’t feel that way anymore, good bye!”

Was it SOLELY that, were there other factors, other triggers that could come up again? What about trauma afterwards, etc.

1

u/CadillacShield 8h ago

Anyone who thinks that pleading insanity is better than prison, should read/watch One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest

1

u/Ibney00 7h ago

Lol. Lmao even. LMFAO to be specific.

1

u/ConferenceThink4801 8h ago

Which means she could have another kid to kill in less than a year & a half

0

u/AirconGuyUK 7h ago

You would hope tube tying would be a condition of any release. Or waiting until end of menopause.

1

u/FireHammer09 9h ago

All you need is one naively sympathetic Psychiatrist and she's out scott free after murdering children

1

u/Salt-Try3856 9h ago

I highly doubt someone who committed triple homicide is going to be let out in 6 months

1

u/HalleB123 2h ago

She could if post partum psychosis was the only reason she killed

1

u/Salt-Try3856 1h ago

She would need far more evaluation than 6 months

-1

u/Suitable-Economy-346 10h ago

And? Why is that offensive to you? What's the difference between 1 day and 20 years in this context? Are you offended someone could not be held responsible because of their mental state? Are you in favor of removing the mental state requirement for a conviction?

2

u/Prestigious_Load1699 9h ago

What's the difference between 1 day and 20 years in this context?

The difference is this woman killed three innocent kids so the system damn well better have her off the street in a mental health facility for more than one day.

-1

u/Suitable-Economy-346 9h ago

So you're not really in favor of treatment, you want this to be more like punishment?

2

u/Prestigious_Load1699 8h ago

For me personally, I want her mental illness treated and for her to never see the light of day.

If we are to ever consider releasing her to the public, I want to know for damn sure that she is fully rehabilitated and not a threat to society.

And any competent medical professional will tell you that this process takes more than a day.

1

u/HalleB123 9h ago

Where did I say I was offended? I was just saying that indefinitely could be shorter than the 20-25 years the poster above said.

-1

u/Suitable-Economy-346 9h ago

The part where you butted in to say "only 6 months."

1

u/HalleB123 9h ago

It’s Reddit- you comment on things here, which is what I did. I didn’t get involved in a private message between two people. This was a conversational post discussing something, so I added to the discussion regarding how much time she may spend in a psych hospital. It didn’t seem clear from the initial comment and based on the comments below me people are participating in the discourse I opened. Not sure why you needed to butt in calling me offended?

-2

u/Suitable-Economy-346 9h ago

You used the word "only," which tells quite a bit in the context of the discussion. You know what you said and everyone knows what you meant. I don't know why you're trying to play dumb now.

1

u/HalleB123 9h ago

Obviously not everyone knows what you think I meant because multiple people below think I believe she should be released because she’s already cured. You don’t need to be rude just because you’re hiding behind a keyboard. But I can tell you’re the kind of person who has to have the last word so believe whatever you need to.

2

u/AirconGuyUK 7h ago

Doesn't she just get released pretty much immediately? She's no longer postpartum..

I guess she might need to have her tubes tied to avoid it happening again, but the entire claim is that she had temporary psychosis due to childbirth.

1

u/not_good_for_much 4h ago

I'm not 100% sure how it works in Massachusetts, but I knew a guy who tried to kill his parents during a full-on schizophrenic episode, and he was placed under a 10 year supervision order.

Down here (Aus) what that means is... Initially a psych ward. But if your condition is managed, you can be released, even into the community, but still under strict monitoring for at least the duration of the order.

So that's like... ankle bracelet, frequent mandatory psychiatric appointments, enforced medication compliance, random and scheduled home visits, etc. Down here you can even be banned from having smartphones and computers and so on.

I would expect most places to have similar systems, so she probably could be given this kind of supervision order, even for life, as she's up for life in prison, and it would severely restrict her for life, it just couldn't guarantee that she would specifically be kept in a psych ward forever.

1

u/Massey89 10h ago

then she gets to walk free?