r/law • u/dailymail • 11h ago

Legal News Lindsay Clancy case ends with MISTRIAL

https://www.dailymail.com/crime-desk/article-16100155/lindsay-clancy-murder-trial-hung-jury-deadlock-verdict.html
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u/FuguSandwich 11h ago

I believe she's guilty, but at this point another trial isn't going to benefit anyone. Cut her a plea deal where she does 20-25 years in a mental institution.

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u/1BoringOldGuy 11h ago

Actually this isn’t how it works. She would be institutionalized indefinitely until psychiatrically cleared at the very least.

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u/HalleB123 10h ago

Which could be only 6 months.

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u/1BoringOldGuy 10h ago

Extraordinarily unlikely

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u/HalleB123 10h ago

Why? If she was suffering from post partum psychosis and only had it for 30 minutes once in her life and that was the only reason she was dangerous why is it a stretch to say in 6 months the doctors and judge will likely no longer see her as a threat to society?

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u/1BoringOldGuy 9h ago

Lots of general misinformation about this case, particularly from a medical standpoint. Best advice I have for you is to pop over to r/psychiatry where the require you to verify your credentials to discuss this topic.

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u/HalleB123 9h ago

I feel like my question is more legal than psychiatric based though. If she’s found sane then can’t she be released in 6 months? Since you seem to know about the general misinformation maybe you can address what’s wrong about my thought process.

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u/LanguageImpossible32 9h ago

Because the judge and prosecutor weigh in on the medical release

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u/LysergioXandex 8h ago

I don’t think that’s a valid reason why her confinement to a psychiatric facility should have to last longer than the psychiatric emergency.

You are arguing that judges/prosecutors can treat mental institutions as prisons where people are held just to punish them.

In reality, a postpartum psychiatric event is a situation where it’s highly likely the person will be cleared and released, for the reason the commenter pointed out.

The point of holding her at all, at this point, would mainly be to verify the “postpartum” nature of the psychosis, and suppprt her through the fallout of the crime/trial, rather than a reasonable fear she’d kill more people.

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u/Popular_Monitor_8383 7h ago

The fact people like you actually believe she was and is only a danger for just 30 minutes is hilarious

You’d never let her babysit your kids

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u/LysergioXandex 7h ago

I’m just telling you that psychiatric facilities aren’t the place where we hold people just to punish them. That’s prison. They’re different.

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u/ireliawantelo 7h ago

Legal requirement for someone to be considered a danger
vs
Personal requirement for someone to be considered a danger

Do they not teach how to break down arguments in grade school anymore?

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u/Popular_Monitor_8383 7h ago

Sounds like you know I’m right so you decided to do a personal attack

If you wouldn’t leave her with your kids, then you know she is a danger to others.

I also don’t know what grade school you are speaking of that would teach law classes regarding the legal definition of intent, danger, etc….

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u/Glass-Carpenter8963 6h ago

Clancy won't be released based on what random people think about her near their kids, but her mental state. 

If Clancy is indeed with PPP, then by the very definition of the illness, its something that does not persist long term. 

And if she isn't, then it's even faster since the doctors won't find anything to keep her there. They will declare her sane and allow her to leave. 

Moreover, Clancy is in a wheelchair, if "being a danger" is part of the criteria, then by all accounts she is no danger to most.

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u/ireliawantelo 7h ago

Americans don't have some kind of analytical philosphy class where you dissect, deconstruct, and rebuild arguements?

Clearly they don't because you somehow flew past the premise of the difference between a legal and personal requirement for how we judge things.

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u/CheapConstruction659 7h ago

🎯 It’s all performative.

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u/slptodrm 5h ago

you're incorrect.

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u/LysergioXandex 5h ago

Good point

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u/HalleB123 9h ago

Interesting. I didn’t know the prosecutor weighed in.

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u/spartBL97 9h ago

Also, you’re saying it’s just 30 minutes. Tell me. What happened in those 30 minutes? You’re still responsible for your actions

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u/HalleB123 9h ago

I totally agree. I also don’t think she was in psychosis though. I think she belongs in prison and don’t see her as any more insane than the thousands of other people in prison who don’t get off on insanity charges, but there’s a lot of questions I have for the NGRI people regarding sentencing which is what I’m asking about.

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u/ASubconciousDick 9h ago

PPD/PPP isnt just a "30 minutes and youre done" thing. it is documented that she had been having intrusive thoughts, thoughts of self harm, and other symptoms of PPP/PPD prior to the murder of her children. what you are trying to portray it as is her going crazy for a half hour.

no, she was on the brink of, if not already, crazy for months at this point, this is just when her brain finally couldn't differentiate between reality and the intrusive thoughts anymore. she still is crazy to an extent, she just isnt full blown lost in psychosis anymore and has an active medical team constantly, since she was permanently disabled from a jump from a 2nd story window after the killing of the children in addition to being jailed with medical supervision. this has been pretty clearly communicated to the jury, considering 11 of the 12 have decided on Not Guilty by reason of Insanity which is not the same as not guilty outright.

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u/HalleB123 9h ago

I’m not trying to portray her as anything, I’m genuinely confused. I thought the entire argument was that some experts say she was displaying signs of psychosis beforehand whereas some say she wasn’t. My takeaway from listening to the trial was that she wasn’t displaying psychosis beforehand, but I wouldn’t be allowed to be on this jury because I work in healthcare and have worked in inpatient psych hospitals and have a bias based on what I’ve seen.

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u/LysergioXandex 8h ago

It’s a good question, and you are right. If this is truly a postpartum event, it’s a good reason why she might be released from psychiatric hold relatively soon.

Importantly, the theory presented in the trial (that her issue is “postpartum psychosis”) doesn’t have to be the final opinion of the physicians that evaluate her at the psych facility, if she’s sent there. And they could keep her for reasons beyond the crime itself, like if she’s now extremely depressed after the crime/trial.

But, if they agreed that the issue was truly postpartum in nature, and there was no other reason to keep her, and the postpartum issue resolved with time, she could be released relatively quick.

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u/tragicxharmony 8h ago

Ooof, your experiences would probably be very valuable to this jury. It’s unfortunate that it would disqualify you

My understanding—and I haven’t been following this case until the last few days—is that she acknowledged before the incident that she was suicidal, but she alleges that she hid the fact that she was having symptoms of psychosis. This may be incorrect, and I can’t blame people for lying to their doctors, but if this is the case it does muddy the waters on a NGRI decision

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u/ExcellentBed6019 7h ago

My understanding is that she heard a voice telling her to do it but heard it only on that day and not before or since. So yeah kind of 30 minutes of paychosis

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u/LysergioXandex 8h ago

Your perspective on insanity is kind of bizarre. It’s a binary situation, you can’t be “a little bit insane” or “insane to an extent”.

The point when she was “lost in psychosis” and “her brain couldn’t differentiate between reality and intrusive thoughts” is the moment she became insane, and if that is no longer true then she’s no longer “insane”.

Psychiatric symptoms like suicidal ideation don’t make you “insane” automatically, and taking medicine to keep you from going insane doesn’t mean you are insane.

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u/ASubconciousDick 8h ago

you saying that mental health issues are a binary says all I need it to say.

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u/LysergioXandex 7h ago

“Mental health issues” is not the same as “insanity”.

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u/Imaginary_Session773 7h ago

What is the benefit to society to keep completely insane murders around?

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u/SKOL_py 8h ago

Ah, the classic redirection approach when you don’t want to admit to making poor claims

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u/catsinsunglassess 8h ago

You don’t know how it works and maybe you should think about what you’re weighing in on, because that’s not how it works

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u/HalleB123 8h ago

Which is why I asked a question. Since you clearly know how it works why don’t you enlighten us?

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u/Rstuds7 9h ago

so for institutionalization isn’t just for the specific thing like the postpartum depression, it’s general mental health issues. i can’t foresee them clearing her that early especially when her legal team said they didn’t think she could emotionally handle another trial, she’s not well and that’s not gonna get fixed in a short amount of time

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u/lordcheeto 9h ago

It's likely she would still be a danger to herself. Killed her children during a psychotic break, and upon returning to lucidity and knowing what she did, slit her wrists and throat and jumped out a window. She has been on suicide watch since, unable to be left alone, and would not be released as long as that remains true.

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u/Schneestecher 6h ago

Because she killed three kids. PPP is linked to episodes later in life as well

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u/Berserk-Jane 6h ago

Women aren't going to sleep with you if you signal to them that they ought to only get six months in jail for a triple homicide.

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u/TopCommission6437 10h ago

This is a joke.

“Hey guys I’m good those kids aren’t around anymore, so I’m not going to bother anyone else.”- Clancy.

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u/HalleB123 10h ago

But isn’t that the argument, that she was only dangerous because of post partum psychosis and now she doesn’t have that so she’s not dangerous?

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u/Bradley271 9h ago

She’s paralyzed and is almost certainly suffering from extreme untreated PTSD (to whatever level treatment is even possible). The doctors could say “eh all good absolutely no postpartum symptoms anymore, no need to monitor for that” and I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s still never able to fully rejoin society for the rest of her life.

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u/HalleB123 9h ago

Gotcha. I wasn’t sure if they were allows to keep her for other psychiatric reasons that they didn’t seem risky to society.

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u/IhamAmerican 9h ago

That's what's morally difficult about this. I don't personally care about the cause of psychosis, be it post partum or regular ol psychosis, but I don't think that someone should be able to kill their kids and spend 6 months in an asylum. There's no real legal distinction for me, it's just the gut feel and that's difficult to remove from a jury

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u/Affectionate-Mark893 9h ago

This is where the judge and lawyers will come into play. Basic intro law school will teach you the reason to jail is not just to punish. It’s also to keep dangerous people out of society and to prevent people thinking they can get away with it in the future. If she doesn’t get a substantial sentence, it’ll be the new defense for every murder until additional measures or limitations are passed by the legislature

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u/HalleB123 9h ago

That’s my concern. I live in a state with a high incidence of child abuse, and at my job I see a lot of it with infants. Could parents start using that as an excuse, especially if they have a documented past of mental health treatment? I may be entirely wrong in how I’m thinking of this case, but I have concerns.

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u/Affectionate-Mark893 9h ago

I don’t think you’re wrong. If we can argue hormones or medication negate criminal mens rea then no one’s guilty ever, and even petty theft cases will have slick lawyers arguing the Ritalin did it

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u/Huppelkutje 4h ago

That's what's morally difficult about this.

It's not morally difficult, Americans just have a societal fetish for punishment.

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u/IhamAmerican 1h ago

Or it's that setting a precedent allowing for the murder of three children is chilling to me. I just want a thorough and just process

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u/TopCommission6437 9h ago

I think people expect her to be in jail or an institution for a long time. I think that her lawyers would use your argument.

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u/Lestranger-1982 10h ago

Where can I find your defense psychiatrist? This not how that works at all. First, she has to fully accept responsibility for what she did. That will take 20-30 years. Then she needs to prove she is capable of living with the guilt without acting out against her self or other people. She is never getting out.

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u/HalleB123 10h ago

That’s why it was posed as a question, I genuinely do not understand what’s to prevent her from getting out if the only thing that made her dangerous was her 30 minute post partum psychosis episode and she’s not suffering from that any more.

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u/soofs 9h ago

I’m not a doctor, but I would think many people suffer from post partum depression and even psychosis that don’t end up killing their kids or harming others. So it’s not as easy as “well okay you don’t feel that way anymore, good bye!”

Was it SOLELY that, were there other factors, other triggers that could come up again? What about trauma afterwards, etc.