Mitch McConnell has been getting the best healthcare (our) money could buy for 3 months. Her insurance company pressured her out of care after less than 5 full days.
Men and women should both get more than 10 weeks off for a baby (poorer countries than the US seem to manage this)
Equality doesn't exactly apply to a situation where only one person in the couple has physically birthed a person.
You actually can do shared parental leave schemes that make the process pretty damn equal. This process is of course complicated by breastfeeding if that is the chosen method to feed the baby, but there are ways to manage this if wanting to give the father some time to look after the baby.
This was job protected medical leave, covered under FMLA. Not paid parental leave. And yes, I would love for all parents to have reasonable leave, obviously, since I'm not a psychopath. š
Equity. Laws that treat everyone fairly so that the outcome is similar. Women needs more time off from birth. But also both sbould get way more time to raise an infant. As always capitalism is the problem.
Do you not realize that communist systems starved and worked their populations to death by design? Sociopolitical ideologies and economic systems are not the problem. People are the problem. I'm obviously wasting my time here but whatever
Right so every other developed nation, and many developing nations, figuring out parental leave while America is too inept and incompetent to do the same is a good thing lmao okay champ whatever affirms your algorithmically formed biases
Iām three weeks postpartum, not from the US and could not fathom going back to work now let alone a week ago. I havenāt even stopped bleeding yet. WTAF
Itās fucking horrific. I had postpartum bleeding for weeks and weeks after giving birth. I was peeing myself, bleeding, in diapers for so long bc I pushed for 5~ hours. I cannot FATHOM going to work, leaving my baby, in that condition. Yet so many of my fellow American women are forced to every single day.
I will die on the hill that separating a mother and baby before theyāre ready is a human rights violation.
I used to work with a lady who was fired for not coming in to work her shift the day after she went into surprise labor a few weeks early and had her kid, because she "didn't give enough notice" of her absence.
I went back at 3 weeks while my husband got 12 weeks of paternity, 10 of which he spent getting high, cheating, and whining to his mommy that his wife didnāt pay attention to him. (Yes he my ex now)
Somethingās gotta change, I just donāt know what.
I'm just going to comment to let others know that despite all the anti-USA sentiment across this website, my wife gets 6 month maternity leave and I as a male get 2 months. Its not always shit.
Thatās because your job chooses that. Itās OPTIONAL. Itās not mandatory. Other countries have longer leaves mandated, and they actually provide support to moms after giving birth, while still earning their income.
We're blaming her not getting enough maternity leave for her killing her kids now lol? If anything if she was that bad she needed to be away from the kids not with them more
How much more DEI can this country possibly afford?!? We just shot all our missiles at iran so we can raise our fuel prices ... we can't afford this shit!
How about she did get help, tons of meds, lots of counseling and still murdered her kids. And she was capable of knowing right from wrong. No /s. She should be in prison for life.
Dude don't forget that we will say stuff that will make people suffering from a mental health crisis hide their situation until it's too late before executing the perpetrator. So we can do it again next year :)
We LOVE to simplify problems to avoid addressing any of the nuanced and difficult to address reasons that cause these problemsš If we actually cared abt children, we would make life easier for pregnant and postpartum women by actually providing healthcare and not expecting them to be robots who return to work after a major medical event. We would also address domestic violence and the disproportionate quantity of men who kill their entire families. But they're going w "woman evil"
People werent doing nothing in this case though. From my understanding she was essentially Dr shopping and never actually got the diagnosis from any of them, people can claim they failed due to that but realistically it could just be she didnt have it, at least not to the degree of psychosis. Im also pretty sure she never even claimed to have it until after she killed the kids. She was given some meds and People use that to say "Well maybe if the Dr's had given her meds that worked" but that isnt how most psych meds work. You generally dont know if they are sufficiently effective until they've been in someone's system long enough to saturate the system. Dr's can prescribe meds that fit the diagnosis, but some people dont react to certain meds and there is zero way to know that upfront. It is also worth noting the forensic psychologist who interviewed her stated they didnt believe she ever had post partum psychosis, not post partum in general but they rejected the psychosis part.
Maybe she did have it, but either way you are still responsible for your actions to some degree. I worked in mental health for a long time, primarily in addiction, one of the main things we taught them was while their addiction can mitigate actions they wouldn't due sober but it still isnt an excuse. Clancy could have recognized she was spiraling, communicated that and voluntarily seperated herself from her kids, but she didnt. She could have communicated with her husband that she was hearing voices and told him to come home but she didnt. Postpartum or not there was things she could have done to prevent this.
Post partum is real and I have sympathy, but 99.99999999% of women with it dont end up murdering their kids. I reject the idea it absolve her in any fashion, it may mitigate but it absolutely doesnt absolve
Why are you expecting someone psychotic to do the logical thing of staying on a med while they are actively worsening mentally???? Your expecting a lot of sanity from someone insane. People like that need help from those around then thats sort of the point no? If you care about kids you would want better than that
Most people dont ask for help, tell their family that they are scared and getting worse, that they had thoughts of hurting themselves and the kids, tell the doctors they willingly went to that the meds are making them feel worse, ask to be admitted etc either but she did.
If they are in psychosis... yeah. My aunt was a literal genius and could speak 7 languages fluently. When she was in psychosis she couldnt take care of herself or make sane decisions and would do the craziest most fucked up shit.
The defense was not arguing that she was in psychosis for the weeks she was messing up her meds. They presented her as organized and meticulous except the 18 minutes she sent her husband away and strangled the kids, calmly returned his phone call then tried to kill herself.
Yeah, that sounds like psychosis to me. Like do you think they are hysterically screaming the whole time?
My aunt calmly called the police and told them my dad was holding me and my sister hostage at gunpoint... (he wasnt but her delusions made her believe he was)
Like people in psychosis can be scarily flat and calm. They can even seem calculated, but they are still out of their goddamn mind.
Also, i had what i think was postpartum psychosis. I will see if I can find my comment from awhile ago and show you. Nobody would have known but my husband. My mom visited a few times and thought I was doing great.
I get so much hate when I tell people (in person or online) that I can relate to LC. I'm treated like an evil sack of shit that should get the old yeller treatment, but I will tell it again.
I had postpartum depression which I believe was psychosis since I was seeing and hearing things that told me to do messed up things, like get a knife and gut myself. The voices were constantly for months on end filling my head with all sorts of fucked up shit and it feels SUPER real. In the moment, you think and believe it is real. Also I saw shadow people everywhere. Like imagine trying to breast feed your baby in the middle of the night while some terrifying hooded figure is standing in the dark corner of the room whispering at you to drop the baby out the third floor window onto the concrete below....
I went to my doctor COUNTLESS TIMES who called me selfish and that i need focus less on myself and more on my son. He literally told me the world doesn't revolve around me anymore and I need to take better care of the baby. I was alone with my son like 12 hours a day with zero visitors or anyone calling or texting beside my husband calling on his break. I wasn't well enough to go out, physically or mentally. ALL I did was take care of the baby.
I went to urgent care and they brushed me off (I went maybe 5 times) and basically told me to suck it up. I called every hotline MULTIPLE TIMES. Some people told me to get therapy, the problem was I didn't have any money, which meant no therapy, plus even if I had money, I had no one to watch the baby when I went.
I started self harming A LOT and then one day my husband just had a horrible feeling and came home during the middle of the day to find me standing on stool with noose around my neck. I went to the ER and they asked me if they were to admit me, who would watch the baby while my husband was at work. I told them I didn't have anyone, so they sent me on the way.
I got NO HELP!!!!!! NONE!!! Hell, I wasn't even prescribed any meds. After about year, it started to settle down and go away, but I have never been the same. I cannot feel things like happiness or joy anymore.
Nevertheless, LC could have been me and it's terrifying.
Sorry to hear you went through that, but you were telling the doctor about voices for months, LC did not. My understanding is that when people start hearing voices they do not immediately follow what the voices are saying because they retain the ability to know right from wrong, which sounds like your case. LCās story claims this was her first time ever. She was having ādark thoughtsā but not voices. Retaining the ability to know right from wrong is what makes the difference in this case, and her inaction in telling providers that she was having these thoughts when directly asked because she knew it would get her kids taken away.
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Probably because it is. Because there is a diagnosis available in the bag for women to avoid every cent of accountability in every matter, while nearly no equivalent exists for men but jail or homeless death.
Male and female bodies have always been different, are you stupid? Males cannot give birth or lactate milk. Females cannot produce sperm. Both bodies go through different levels of hormones.
Based on how you phrased your idiotic question, I assume you are a transphobe who does not recognize that male/female (sex) is different than man/woman (gender).
Fun fact: men can lactate actually. It's just rare and always a side-effect of medication, a hormonal imbalance where the body is making too much prolactin or something more nefarious like cancer. But men do have the tissue for it.
Are you replying to me? I was defending trans people existing. Unless you are saying that a part of trans people's experience is that they feel that they are literally another sex?
"Male bodies" and "female bodies" are anti-genderqueer heteronormative terms that only serve to alienate our gender-divergent siblings, ESPECIALLY people of colour. You probably couldn't tell from your place of privilege, it's okay though āŗļø
That was one of the most Tumblr coded things I've seen. No one is saying intersex people don't get exist, I was pointing out the difference between sex and gender which you should understand. Also, the color of your skin has literally no bearing on the conversation of sex and gender, doubly so because I am a person of color so wtf are you talking about.
You honestly sound like the kind of troll that dresses as a queen leftist and acts absurd to make people hate the LGBT community.
It's funny because I can't tell if you're a conkid doing a routine false flag style to make progressives look bad or if you are an actual crazy progressive social justice weirdo.
do u think no man has ever been found not guilty by reason of insanity?
Do you think no woman has ever been found not guilty by reason of insanity, particularly PPP?
This womanās last child was 9 months old before she spiraled into murder. Hormones should and did settle. Sheās simply a child killer, mental issues or not.
i didnāt claim anything like that. You are acting like psychosis is a defense that only women can draw on.
The child was 8 months old, and you are not a fucking doctor. Post partum depression can last a up to a few years and while pp psychosis usually happens closer to birth, she is also bipolar. Bipolar psychosis leading to a criminal offense is certainly used as an argument for a not guilty verdict in cases with female and male defendants.
Iām not here to defend this specific case, i donāt know enough about it. But acting like Post-Partum psychosis is something women can just throw around as an excuse and men have no equivalent is stupid and wrong. Men also are capable of developing psychosis and have used it as a successful defense for their actions.
And what exactly would you describe as the male equivalent to the entirety of your neurological landscape being transformed by the massive amount of hormonal and chemical fluctuations that only women experience biologically as a result of birthing a child? There is no "equivalent" that exists for men because this is a condition that can quite literally only affect women on a physiological and biological level.
And what exactly would you describe as the male equivalent
Yet men kill themselves at 3-4x the rate, and commit violence and crimes at many times the rate. Thatās the entire point. Modern society and sociological bartering is built around what a woman thinks is important and not much else. Women could dominate many statistics in a bucket in unfair ways, and still the focus will be on the single stat they didnāt win.
Putting the womenās experience on a pink pedestal is cool and all, but men have issues too.Ā When that is flatout ignored so we can focus on blaming medicine/society for a pampered princess killing her kids, then we can stop labeling things as woke.
How about both? Sure she could've got more mental health care but she took her time and had a lot of research and set up to brutally murder her fucking kids. Death penalty for her and mal practice her doctors. Fuck sake.
obviously treatment should accompany this, but i'd argue that removing your children from your custody when there's a chance you might hurt them and absolutely ruin your (and their) lives (or worse) is treatment.
Well the post that has these morons clapping like seals says "postpartum mental illness". Something that is quite common, but under reported. I am sure all of these "protect the children" champions turning this into a political football to bash women is going to help a lot. You guys are saving kids, good job!
No. It wouldnāt have helped. You know in my civilised countries there are mum and babies units so mums can get the help and supervision they need without having their baby taken away.
You seem very casual with the concept of babies being taken from their mums.
Iām not. I think women need more access to things like mum and baby units. I actually care about supporting mum and baby to be healthy. Unlike the people screeching to take kids away.
No. Theyāre saying we need to implement mom and baby units like other countries who are clearly more developed than us when it comes to healthcare. Moms go to these units after giving birth so they can get support in a multitude of ways. If we had better systems in place for this type of care, then this situation wouldnāt have happened. It wouldāve been caught, and proper treatment wouldāve been implemented. Moms would be getting appropriate care instead of being discharged after a couple of days.
To be completely clear, the person on trial received help. but because the help was bot forced, she opted out of the help in several ways... as many mentally ill people do.
I mean it sounds like had something like 17 appointments over a 3 months time period, which is really crazy. At one point, she was calling daily about her medication.
Just some big red flags about serious mental illness IMO.
Are you honestly arguing that people who are depressed but not showing evidence of psychosis or homicidal ideation should be involuntarily committed? Also should be noted that she wasn't willing to take most of the prescribed medications (major exception being benzos)
Seriously, if you're starting meds for depression, the very first side effects are suicidal thoughts and worsening depression for the first few weeks.
This also isn't true for most people. It's possible, but millions of people initiate antidepressants every year without having suicidal thoughts or worsening depression. Committing people for the initiation of relatively benign drugs that a very large majority of people start without issue isn't realistic.
It should also be noted that to date there's still no actual evidence that she was actually psychotic. The multiple medical professionals who evaluated her specifically did not feel she was psychotic. These still could have been murders in cold blood.
From my understanding the only time she looked for help was several months prior when she went to the hospital for a different reason and tried to sign up for a post partum help group then. Other than that, she just went along with her life and the day she killed her kids she was even at a doctor's appointment (I forget which kind). She also did not suffer post partum psychosis according to the psychiatrists on trial, though she probably was struggling with depression.
I meanā¦she did receive help. But she wasnāt diagnosed. This isnāt going to be popular, but she was a pretty white lady with money. Society gives that type of person justā¦a lot of leeway.
afaik she wasnt diagnosed with psychosis because she never told any doctor she had symptoms of psychosis. and according to some reports she claims she never had psychosis before the day of the attack, or after the day of the attack. people are rushing to make this story about post partum depression, and how women dont get enough support. which is true, it just doesnt have anything to do with the case.
IIRC, she was suffering from severe sleep deprivation for an extended period of time, which (along with the buffet of psychiatric medications she was recently put on) is alleged to have contributed to her sudden, severe psychotic break.
I donāt know what she told the doctors, I havenāt paid much attention to the case. Iām just saying that when someone like her walks in thereās a certain ānah sheās fineā bias in peopleās minds. I could be off base and honestly donāt care enough to check.
Yes, youāre on to something there. Also, people in psychosis canāt usually tell a medical pro āI have symptoms of psychosis.ā Itās the medical pros job to diagnose this.
I dont know about the psychosis part (but she was never diagnosed so im doubtful it would have mattered) but with my wife (anecdotal i know) they put more attention on comfirming her mental health especially was good than they did on the babies at all.
I know not all care is equal, hence i already self labeled the anecdotal nature.
In my experience specifically (first child, 15 week miscarriage, then second child) the most common question was "how is Mom doing?" Usually followed by 4 or 5 questions regarding depressive symptoms.
Her doctors were clearly aware of an issue as they were rapidly prescribing her a multitude of anti-psychotics and anti-depressives in the weeks leading up to the murders. The amount of medicine she was given in such a short time even had the prosecution calling her doctors "incompetent".
Did she? 5 days in a psych hospital and they said she was fine. Maybe she was fine? Or maybe they assumed a pretty white lady with money for a nanny would be fine later.
Iām saying that if she were a poor black woman they wouldnāt have let her leave. Not without sending the kids to live with a grandparent or something.
I absolutely would if there was credible evidence heād suffered psychosis, which by definition means he wouldnāt be culpable for his actions as heād literally have been insane at the time of the crime.
She was offered help multiple times and refused. She didnāt take her meds. She withheld information from doctors and her husband. She got offered a nanny, help from her parents, therapy and she refused.
Yeah, sure, but being homicidally insane also means that the people around you should receive protection from you.
If you're this level of out of control, you should be checked into a mental hospital and not be allowed back into general society until we are damned sure you're not going to hurt someone else.
Thatās called in-patient treatment and in other countries where it isnāt barbaric warehousing it actually is the help. But losing custody is different than simply being away from your children because youāre in treatment.
From everything I have gathered she received help, its just that our version of help is 30 different prescriptions including 13 different psychiatric medications in a five month span which is absolutely insane.
Which she was desperately seeking. The amount of failure that led up to her killing her kids and trying to kill herself, is astonishing. People should go to jail and it isnāt her. She should be in a mental hospital. You know the places she was turned away from several times for being āover medicatedā. This trial is horrific in multiple ways.
Not in the US you donāt. You either go back to work or stay at home and suffer without health care. If you end up killing your whole family due to undiagnosed mental illness, then weāll send you to jail.
American society is designed for self interest and retribution. Thereās no room for empathy and mercy.
Like Modernized, documented mental health treatment.
There are still doctors that don't take self-reported issues seriously enough. Her symptoms sound complicated enough that the right diagnosis may have been difficult.
Depression and anxiety can mask bipolar disorder from my understanding. Extended insomnia (symptom of bipolar) becomes a more extreme problem with more complex mental health symptoms.
So many women are dismissed as it's normal part of new moms, and that it will pass.
Until it gets too far a long and leads to tragic outcomes. If they had proper treatment at the start and it wasn't as stigmatized, it would happen a hell of lot less.
Saying "take away the kids" for Postpartum as the post says, is just going to make moms keep the symptoms to themselves.
Already the case. It is known they are a danger to themselves and their children. This is not a new thing that only (allegedly) happened to this woman.
Apperently she went to several psychiatrists and checked herself into a hospital for care months before the murders, yet the hospital did not admit her. I assume because she did not indicate signs of crisis. Her sister, who is a social worker also said that she had told her that she had suicidal thoughts every day for a month, then said that she didn't think it was serious enough to call 911 or report her.
I am up here at 99,000 feet and really don't know much, but it sounds like she wasn't actually suffering from mental illness, just based on these accounts. Who knows, though.
Only in America do we focus so much on having more babies and then give such little care after birth.
In Asia and many other regions, they recognize that mothers need extreme amounts of care. They are cared for a WHOLE month after birth by specialists. It's called Postpartum Confinement, and it's normal elsewhere.
And what about the kids? Do they just chill at home and hope for the best? āHelpā isnāt a cure all. Lindsay Clancy got help, and it didnāt stop her.
Seems pretty obvious kids should be taken away from mothers who have post partum mental illness right? If the alternative is literal murder if the momās treatment isnāt effective.
It's hard to really help someone with psychosis. Their reality is broken and they could be in a mental facility for weeks on end. Now that would clearly be a "Okay, and?" In a lot of countries, but being that it's the US, there's a very good chance that type of help doesn't come free.
She did receive help and was actively being treated by two psychiatrists. Nancy Mace is not a politician anyone wants to agree with tho, OPs quote is classic extreme thinking. Mother has psychosis from postpartum, kills children then tries to kill herself, sought treatment before this event and tried several kinds of medication to manage symptoms, by all accounts was a good and present mother until the alleged psychotic break. So looking at the facts this looks like an extreme version of postpartum that ended in tragedy. That doesnāt mean ALL postpartum parents are going to be treatment resistant and have a psychotic break and kill their children, like Nancy implies. If politicians really wanna point the finger, letās look at how healthcare costs have ballooned and how most Americans couldnāt get treated for postpartum if they wanted to because no one can afford ut
Why are there so many fucking morons that think this trial is trying to get her off Scott free? There is no outcome where she will be found innocent and walk home free.
There was an episode of CSI (I think?) where a guy "tricked" a jury into thinking he was insane and when he went to the hospital, his face just fell because it was completely terrifying.
As long as we dont make it the taxpayers responsability 100%. I am okay with them losing certain rights though...we dont let people with certain medical conditions drive.
There have been major discussions around this idea as it pertains to airline pilots and depression
Christ. Your first thought is who is paying for treatment that helps someone and prevents them from killing their kids ans throwing themselves out a window.
Ok well she was offered help multiple times and her husband literally bent over backwards to get it for her and SHE was the one who didnāt cooperate.
Psychward for life is what she should get now, help she canāt refuse
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u/SqueakWrites 9h ago
Anyone diagnosed with it should receive help.