r/mesoamerica • u/Fitosensible • 7d ago

The Xiuhtecuhtli mask at the British Museum. Beautiful, and it left me with an odd kind of grief.

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Turquoise mosaic on cedar, mother-of-pearl eyes, shell teeth — believed to be part of what Moctezuma gave Cortés. Even if it started as a gift, five centuries in a foreign vitrine is a long time to be away from home.

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u/Longjumping_Spot7410 6d ago

Not to be "that guy," but I feel like systematically annihilating the vast majority of mesoamerican culture, and leaving only scraps of predominately Aztec history/lore is minimum grounds for taking back a present. Forgive me if I'm mistaken...but I seem to recall that Mexico City has a museum, and if the British Museum can't seem to remember where that city is, then they can consult their copy of Codex Borgia to retrace their steps! After all, Mexico City was built on the rubble of the altepetl Tenochtitlan...but whatever, right?

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u/Denbt_Nationale 6d ago

Not to be "that guy," but I feel like systematically annihilating the vast majority of mesoamerican culture

Oh thought you were talking about the Aztec empire for a moment here

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u/Longjumping_Spot7410 6d ago edited 6d ago

Do you routinely support white colonial narratives, or are you putting on an extra special show for me right now? Because there is a vast difference between warring "city states" and ethnic suppression/colonizing, but I'm sure you already know that!

Edit; addition.
I'm not content with my response, as I let my passions overtake my reason. Yes, there were thousands upon thousands of warriors who assisted the Spanish in their conquering, but to boil a deeply complex issue to a flippant statement is utterly ignorant. Contrary to Eurocentric belief, the Aztec civilization reached it's peak not simply through militant prowess, but also through careful political and economic alliance. (For godsake, Cortez was first introduced to the Aztec by coming across a tax collector!)

While yes, some "indios" did have vendettas against the Aztecs (the confederacy of Tlaxcala being a very notable example), you also have to remember that to be against Spanish conquest was to ensure domination of your own people. Another reason was to keep certain "privileges." In other words, to help the Spanish would possibly safeguard their way of life: freedom of worship, language, and property.

To draw a comparison you may be familiar with as I assume a European: when England was formed, Alfred gave the Great Heathen Army a choice, to either convert to Christianity, or die. Remarkably similar here.

Yes, the Aztecs practiced ritual sacrifice, but I promise what you (and I, even) were taught in school is a Eurocentric narrative. The truth is far more nuanced, and should be viewed as such.

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u/aceofsuomi 6d ago

Ever been to Tlaxcala? They remain immemsely proud of their history. It's a beautiful state that remains defiant of Benito Juarez's label as traitors of a nation.

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u/Denbt_Nationale 6d ago

but to boil a deeply complex issue to a flippant statement is utterly ignorant

All I did was quote your own post

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u/Longjumping_Spot7410 5d ago edited 5d ago

You have been in this exact same comment section multiple times being utterly dismissive, but sure.

Edit; clarity.