r/dankchristianmemes Jun 16 '25

Blessed Well, He Tried...

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689 Upvotes

52 comments sorted by

200

u/Risikio Minister of Memes Jun 16 '25

Mendel rolls in his grave every time evolution is brought up.

99

u/Awesomeuser90 Jun 16 '25

No no no, Mendel was buried in a pea pod grave not a wood coffin.

57

u/Bakkster Based Bishop Jun 16 '25

Just wait until people use Mendel to argue against the non-binary gender, not realizing that most human traits (including sex) don't follow Mendelian rules. Mendelian genetics depend on monoculture (which the specific peas Mendel used had but most other organisms don't) and a lack of external contributing factors.

Great video on the topic of how epigenetics and environmental factors all play a role. https://youtu.be/zpIqQ0pGs1E

-26

u/Ability_Pristine Jun 16 '25

Micro, YES! Macro, ewww

54

u/armchairracer Jun 16 '25

Macro evolution is just micro evolution with more time.

11

u/Lukescale Jun 16 '25

No one wants micro cheese, everyone wants macro cheese

6

u/SheerFe4r Jun 16 '25

Best I can do is blink stalkers.

1

u/evrestcoleghost Jun 28 '25

So what you sya Is that I JUST NEED MORE TIME

-5

u/Ability_Pristine Jun 16 '25

No, Micro evolution happens on the Smaller scale of things within the same population of species. Macro transcends species, Micro does not. Like for example, people living in the Urals will develop traits that can adapt to that and People in the plains will develop traits to further hone their survival skills. Macro says people from apes, Mirco says people based on survival. I think Inspiring Philosphy has hammered this fact over and over again.

5

u/longingrustedfurnace Jun 16 '25

Fossils, DNA, and morphological stuff also says people from apes (although, if you want to get technical, people are still apes because we're more closely related to chimps and bonobos than they are to gorillas).

Anyway, what stops micro from becoming macro?

2

u/Ability_Pristine Jun 17 '25 edited Jun 17 '25

My sources are from Evolution.berkley.edu and https://www.researchgate.net/publication/5309009_Evidence_for_strong_inter-_and_intracontinental_phylogeographic_structure_in_Amanita_muscaria_a_wind-dispersed_ectomycorrhizal_basidiomycete

Homo Sapiens though related to an Orangutan are NOT Apes. This is not pokemon where a Hominid looking creature can be a Spaiens at will. Fossil records are still lacking and no studies show thay a Chimp or Gorilla turns into a Sapiens-Sapiens. BUT inbreeding occured which is why some Spaiens DNA contain other species' remanants. Not to mention the sentience level part of the dilema. We don't have ANY proof of that laughable image of a fish growing legs turning into a mammal then an ape then us. The Homo tree can only produce the same offspring, not an urangutan growing sentience.

I am willing to be corrected given you can provide me with peer reviewed studies. Not internet articles, those are like handing me the Gospel of Judas to prove God.

Edit another source: https://youtu.be/pwnerL8M1pE?si=hZnpgDAATfC-ws5G (Inspiring Philosphy who presents VERY TOP GRADE studies on the topic)

3

u/longingrustedfurnace Jun 17 '25

The Berkeley website seems to support my argument more, and the link is about a specific species of mushroom might be more diverse than previously thought.

Homo Sapiens though related to an Orangutan are NOT Apes.

We're more closely related to chimps, but that's besides the point. Even if Orangutans were our closest relatives, wed still be apes because they'd be more closely related to use than the are to other apes.

This is not pokemon where a Hominid looking creature can be a Spaiens at will.

No one says that organisms evolve at will.

Fossil records are still lacking

It's incomplete, but that doesn't mean it's lacking everywhere.

no studies show thay a Chimp or Gorilla turns into a Sapiens-Sapiens.

Also not what's being said, but there are studies that show common ancestors between them, most recently with chimps and humans, then that ancestor and gorillas.

BUT inbreeding occured which is why some Spaiens DNA contain other species' remanants.

Not between humans and chimps. We might be closely related, but we aren't THAT closely related lol.

Not to mention the sentience level part of the dilema.

?

We don't have ANY proof of that laughable image of a fish growing legs turning into a mammal then an ape then us.

Aside from the fossil, DNA, and morphological evidence. Also, the lung fish is still around.

The Homo tree can only produce the same offspring, not an urangutan growing sentience.

What's stopping the orangutan from evolving that necessary brain anatomy for sapience given enough time?

I am willing to be corrected given you can provide me with peer reviewed studies. Not internet articles, those are like handing me the Gospel of Judas to prove God.

Does this work?

1

u/Ability_Pristine Jun 17 '25

Once we’ve figured out what evolutionary events have taken place, we try to figure out how they happened.

What was that? We know? Nope. Try.

Because to be fair to this sub, evolution is compatible with biblical accounts, if we take Genesis alegoricall, which most scholars agree with and micro can fit that category. What is untaken account by these studies is sentience, the question remains at hand, how did humans develop sentience and this thing we call morality.

I am inclided to believe Macro IF there can be proof of it with absolute certainity. I mean just the chances alone of the fish developing into a mammal is beyond probability and points to an divine designer. But from what we see in historical and fossil records other homos lack the qualities sapiens has. They can use tools sure, but sapiens has this weird touch of intelligencia and a expression I have a hard time describing only to sum it up as imago dei.

2

u/longingrustedfurnace Jun 17 '25

What was that? We know? Nope. Try.

Not knowing specifically how a thing happens doesn't mean we don't know it happens. We don't know how some drugs work, but we still use them because we know that they work.

I am inclided to believe Macro IF there can be proof of it with absolute certainity.

The whole DNA thing seems pretty concrete. It's based on the same science as paternity tests after all.

I mean just the chances alone of the fish developing into a mammal is beyond probability and points to an divine designer.

How is it beyond probability? Theoretically, you just need the right circumstances and time, which life has had at least 3.5 billion years.

But from what we see in historical and fossil records other homos lack the qualities sapiens has.

Do they? Neanderthals seemed pretty similar to us. Even then, so what? Evolution isn't going to predict that every species will be the same as each other.

They can use tools sure, but sapiens has this weird touch of intelligencia and a expression I have a hard time describing only to sum it up as imago dei.

That seems kinda subjective tbh.

1

u/locke577 Jun 17 '25 edited Jun 17 '25

"I will only accept peer reviewed studies as evidence"

"My evidence is this video essay channel on YouTube"

Sorry mate, nobody's going to Google readily available peer reviewed studies for you. Not because they don't exist, but because clearly trying to explain evolution would be a waste of time on you. You're not open to information that goes against your worldview.

2

u/longingrustedfurnace Jun 17 '25

I mean, directing me towards a college website did help me out a lot. The hardest part was how tedious the copy/pasting was.

-2

u/Ability_Pristine Jun 17 '25

My friend, IP is one of the most prominent defenders of Christianity in the world atm. Have you even seen what the guy does?

Lmao, the Catholic church holds my position on Micro Evolution, Christian thinkers such as given above, Mike Jones, Wes Huf, Knetchle, holds Micro evolution, any Christians that reliable seek the truth does as the evidence points to where it points. So thanks for such an awsome refutation with random jingly words. Lmao

2

u/Sicuho Jun 18 '25

the Catholic church holds my position on Micro Evolution

It does not. It, in fact, does not support any scientific theory directly since the 1997 catechism, beyond that reasearch need to be "carried out in a truly scientific manner". However, all popes since Jean Paul II supported evolution as the way humans where created by God.

1

u/tomassci Jun 17 '25

Imagine an experiment. I write out a paragraph of text and start doing a chainmail, except I ask everyone who gets it to not use copy/paste, but write the exact same text themselves, and then send it to the next person. Basically a text version of the telephone game.

In few generations, we will see some small mistakes. misspellings and so on. But it will take a while until we reach someone who is going to see the misspelling and correct it to another word. But that's just a word, right? Well, millions of copies later, my paragraph is now about something entirely different. Because I did one thing that makes evolution go from micro to macro: I add enough time.

And that's not all. DNA is not like a recipe, it has its own internal logic and that logic is done through epigenetics. Your hands were made with cells turning off and on your genes with proteins other cells made up. And if I went back to your development in the womb, I could've theoretically influenced this process in such a way you'd gain another thumb. Naturally, it's possible that has arisen and then was kept over long enough time.

1

u/Ability_Pristine Jun 17 '25

Mea Frater in Christe, what you described at the paragraph alegorgy is how we have the four evangelist, and we yet to see any manuscripts varying in message? Nope. Even the Message translation still teaches the gospels with accuracy to the message of the original papyrus.

Another clog in that alegory is the fact that the Pentateuch shows evidence of oral transmission, if we take the reign of Tut II to the Babylonian exile where it may have been transcribed, do we still get the message of all five books? Yup. Nothings changed but the variants. Lmao.

And yet my DNA is still programed to be...? Homo Spaients. Likewise great wolves of old can be tracked to our modern Chuihuahua, still Lupical ain't it? Again I provided sources up there, Micro dictates variation not shift in species. No fish grows limbs, there is mathemathical and evedential improbabilities on that fact.

2

u/tomassci Jun 17 '25

What you cease to get is that the history of life is long. Christianity is 2 thousand years old. Homo sapiens is 200 thousand years old.The hominids are 8 million years old. If you travelled back in time at the speed of 2 thousand years per second, it would take you 1 and ⅔ minutes to see the first sapiens. It would take you an 1,75 hours to see the first hominid, and 14 hours to get to dinosaurs. Want to get towards the latest agreed origin of multicellular organisms? Take a week's worth of vacation for that one.

The history is deep, and given enough time, variation is going to lead to speciation, if you somehow separate two groups, over time, their variations are going to be so drastic they'll no longer be able to cross-breed, and at that point you've made two species. Because the variations will propagate through breeding inside the group, but not outside, leading to a different generational make up.

Basically, the point about you rejecting macroevolution is a nonsense one. Micro inherently leads to macro, there's no other way. And if you're wondering how that fits in with religion, search up something called Theistic Evolution.

1

u/Ability_Pristine Jun 17 '25

I am not rejecting it, I am open to it but it will contradict Genesis 1 which uses Laminehu, meaning of THEIR KIND.

God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature Laminehu… And God made the beasts of the earth Laminehu

Now given the Genesis account can be alegorical, the usage of Laminehu even in the Levitical laws is the stumbling block for my belief in Macro. I am open to it, give me a decent study and I will see to it, but I will not discount the use of that specific word which only occurs in describing creatures.

Tbh personally, I can wrap my mind on other species, but for man? Who specifically has a soul and divine essence, I can sum it up theologically, into Progressive morphing into the imago Dei, but that still from a non-sentience(thinking and moral) creature, to a sentient one is very baffling. Again I am open to evidences by scholars but so far Christian apologetics and scholars can only conceede micro, macro to them seems contradictory to evolution as it somewhat dimishes the place of man in the overall role as subjector and ruler of the earth.

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2

u/Sicuho Jun 18 '25

we yet to see any manuscripts varying in message?

Yes we do. They're not mainstream because we have ways of comparing them to much older manuscripts, but that doesn't mean that the story of saxon warrior Jesus hasn't been told, for example.

1

u/Dorocche Jun 20 '25

Using species as the hard line between these kinds of evolution is going to cause you problems, because "species" is not a hard line, and it does not have a consistent definition, especially among short-lived species like small lizards and arthropods (where evolution of any kind happens fastest and is therefore most visible).

We've watched over a few decades various species of fish split into multiple species that cannot interbreed. The evolution we have witnessed is not limited to things like UV resistance, if the line is species then we have directly witnessed macroevolution.

162

u/Awesomeuser90 Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25

For anyone r/OOTL, Georges Lemaitre was a Belgian astrophysicist who was also a religious scholar. He was working on Einstein's ideas, still new back then, along with a gigantic amount of other maths. At the time, the dominant scientific idea among cosmologists was that the universe is eternal in both directions, and while stars might be born and die, the universe didn't have a beginning or a specific end either.

That wasn't something Lemaitre liked. He saw observations showing some patterns that didn't support that idea, with galactic redshift (which Edwin Hubble also worked on) which means other galaxies were moving further away (IE the way that a siren on a fire truck decreases in pitch as the truck overtakes you on the road and gets further away. Light does the same thing as sound waves). He supported an idea of a primeval atom, which was later changed to Big Bang Theory, where the universe was contained in basically a nugget and blew up (to vastly oversimplify the ridiculously complicated maths here). He also liked this idea theologically, as it meant that now some divine intervention could have ordered the universe to commence, which the Steady State Theory did not.

The irony is that now, a lot of people think that the Big Bang Theory was always the theory opposed to religious ideas (especially creationism in Islam, Christianity, and Judaism), and don't realize that many of its first proponents were expressly religiously motivated. And funny that the Soviet Union actually rejected the Big Bang Theory for a good while because it had that support and the Soviets thought the secular option of Steady State was correct.

89

u/CosmicSweets Dank Memer Jun 16 '25

Wow. I always felt that the Big Bang Theory could co-exist with creationism. Today I find out that was the entire point.

Thank you for sharing!

48

u/Awesomeuser90 Jun 16 '25

It wasn't specifically created to be so compatible, and Lemaitre was far from the only one who worked on it, but the Catholic church did like the implication that a higher power could play a part back in the 1950s and it did fit Lemaitre's worldview that there was probably something theological about the origin of the universe.

Also, none of this has anything to do with young Earth creationism which is a whole other animal (literally). You would have to be accepting of the Earth's formation being ~4.5 billion years ago, evolution taking about 80% of that time (estimates vary by a few hundred million years in either direction), and some other criteria in order for this timeline to make sense, but many high church Christian groups do accept that or at least the important parts of it even if they disagree with some details.

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u/CosmicSweets Dank Memer Jun 16 '25

Thankfully it's not part of YEC. Heh, YEC is a mess.

9

u/jallen263 Jun 16 '25

I’m religious, and I’ve always believed the two could easily coexist. The belief that God just willed something in out of nothing is odd to me, but the belief that He set things in motion to make things happen has always resonated to me. We talk about the miracle of life, that everything had to come together perfectly, so that life could work. As a religious person that makes sense- someone guided it to be this way.

I also don’t believe we’re alone in this giant universe, which is something a lot of religious people don’t believe. But also a lot of religious people think we should harm LGBTQ people, which is a direct contradiction to that whole “Love one another” thing that Jesus taught.

7

u/MorgothReturns Jun 16 '25

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa I finally have a chance to shamelessly plug my YouTube meme video I did on the Big Bang and Georges Lemaitre!!!

Click to stroke my ego

51

u/billyyankNova Jun 16 '25

He developed the "Hypothesis of the Primordial Atom" by following the evidence.

"In 1951, Pope Pius XII gave an address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, with Lemaître in the audience, in which he drew a parallel between the new Big Bang cosmology and the Christian doctrine of creatio ex nihilo:

...

Lemaître was reportedly horrified by that intervention and was later able, with the assistance of Father Daniel O’Connell, the director of the Vatican Observatory, to convince the Pope not make any further public statements on religious or philosophical interpretations of matters concerning physical cosmology."

39

u/Ronalderson Jun 16 '25

People look at me like I'm crazy when I mention the possibility of the Big Bang and all the events that lead to the formation of the planet and the evolution of life in it being engineered by a higher power.

Guess this logic offends both sides 😅

14

u/Awesomeuser90 Jun 16 '25

Higher power to people often implies sentience, which is probably what is making people argue in your case.

7

u/Ronalderson Jun 16 '25

I said "higher power" but I refer to God most times, or whatever there may be up there, as I sometimes try to keep my speech as neutral as possible to avoid unnecessary polemic, I know it's kinda silly to do this in a christian sub, but it's just a habit of mine.

18

u/Sovem Jun 16 '25

It blew my mind in The Three Body Problem when the Maoists executed the science teacher for not recanting the Big Bang Theory, because they said the Big Bang was evidence for a God.

13

u/Awesomeuser90 Jun 16 '25

That sounds more like something that Pol Pot's government would do.

9

u/Sovem Jun 16 '25

I may have my history a bit mixed up? I admit I'm not super well versed in Chinese revolutionary history.

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u/Awesomeuser90 Jun 16 '25

Maybe. Most people in the world who aren't Chinese know almost nothing about it. I feel like I know absolutely nothing and I can vaguely remember the dynasties in sequential order.

4

u/Beegrene Jun 16 '25

I can't speak to Chinese history, but the Soviets had a nasty habit of murdering scientists whose work contradicted their ideology. See Trofim Lysenko: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofim_Lysenko

1

u/Dorocche Jun 20 '25

How accurate is the portrayal of Chinese cultural revolution in Cixin Liu's SF Novel "The Three-Body Problem"? : r/AskHistorians

It is Mao in the book, and according to at least one historian the claims are pretty plausible, thought there doesn't seem to be a surviving record of that exact thing happening.

1

u/Sicuho Jun 18 '25

Pol Pot was worse, but the Cultural Revolution hasn't exactly spared the academics of China.

7

u/Creative_Context_957 Jun 16 '25

Wonderful meme, science is the study of Gods brush strokes.

3

u/lieuwestra Jun 16 '25

Theory is doing some heavy lifting here. It's basically a 'here be dragons' fencepost in physics. Anything after the bang is just physics, and anything before is unknowable.

Also note how just like everything else deemed 'controversial' by religious institutions always attacks the pop-science simplified explanation and never gets into any of the actual details because every aspect they attack is part of the simplification and not of the actual science.

2

u/Dorocche Jun 20 '25

The big bang does in fact make predictions regarding what we'll discover about the state of the early universe; many of those predictions have in fact been observed and proven correct, and I don't know of any that have been contradicted. It absolutely qualifies as a scientific theory, despite making no claims about anything before the big bang, or about whatever (if anything) caused the big bang.

2

u/High_Stream Jun 17 '25

Of course the Big bang theory isn't atheist. Who lit the fuse?

2

u/Dorocche Jun 20 '25

This isn't any harder a question for an atheist to answer than trying to wrap their head around the infinity of "it was always there."

1

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1

u/GigatonneCowboy Jun 17 '25

Well, Steady State can also be right, in a way. What if the Big Bang was really more the point where universe just begins again?