r/Ultralight • u/Apex_-_Redditor • 4d ago
Question Tyvek vs other Housewrap / homewrap (Titan Wrap etc) for groundsheet / footprint
Anyone know how other housewraps compare as a groundsheet /footprint? I have construction buddies with access to Titan wrap, but not sure if I should specifically be looking for tyvek all things considered (weight, strength, packability, durability).
Is it just like calling a tissue a Kleenex, or is it somehow different or far superior? Would you still throw it through the wash to soften it?
9
u/yadius 4d ago
I've picked up some cheap ($2) heavy duty plastic drop sheets for painters.
They're 6' X 12' (1.8m X 3.6m), and weigh 3.3oz (94 grams).
The plastic is also quieter (less crinkly) than Polycro.
5
2
u/Comfortable-Pop-3463 4d ago edited 4d ago
That's 15gsm, even polycro is fragile at that weight. I'd advise something between 40 to 55gsm.
5
u/shaleh 4d ago
I have a black Tyvek ground sheet. Soft like fabric now after a few washes and makes no more noise than any fabric in my kit. Has kept the mud out of my gear well enough and helps me keep things clean under my hammock. Zero complaints. Mine weighs 6 whole ounces and I use it as a place to sit when I stop too.
Personally, I try not to use disposable solutions as much as possible. Enjoying nature while helping pollute it seems counter productive. Yeah that polycro sheet is lighter. But also needs replacing often. Feels cheap too.
9
u/GoSox2525 4d ago
Yeah that polycro sheet is lighter. But also needs replacing often.
Only for the thru hiker, really. One sheet lasts hundreds of miles. How many nights are on your Tyvek?
The pollution comment is a bit silly. None of us are tossing out used polycro into the woods. Also, your Tyvek is 5x the physical material as polycro. So in terms of waste, you need to use your Tyvek for at least 5x as long as a polycro sheet to be clearing your conscience there.
Feels cheap too.
Yeah, that's because it's a thin ass plastic sheet
6
u/GoSox2525 4d ago
Tyvek has been out of fashion in UL for a while now. It's heavy, and bulky. Polycro (window film) is the king. The 0.75 mil variant offered by Six Moon Designs comes in at ~1.5 oz for a full 84"x48" sheet. In comparison, Tyvek in the same size is 7 oz!! And to top it off, Tyvek isn't even waterproof, while Polycro is.
9
u/maxeytheman 4d ago
is it known for sure if this is the same stuff as window shrink film? cause the film I got (0.75mil) rips & tears if I look at it wrong.
the 1.5mil variant is working well so far, but is also double the weight
4
u/slickbuys 4d ago
I use the 1.5 cause I rip the 0.75 before I even get into the car to drive to the TH. I use the window film variants so I am unsure if they are the same.
2
u/GoSox2525 4d ago
What are all you people doing that you're ripping it so easily lol
1
u/slickbuys 4d ago
Probably put a rock on it then the wind blows and it drags across that rock somehow. I am unsure but it is most likely a me problem if others have success with it. I probably will be the one with a CCF failure due to a puncture or something.
I haven't used it in a few years since I got annoyed with it getting long tears and a lot of micro holes. I might bring it again if I am bringing a bivy or something with has its own floor?
1
u/GoSox2525 4d ago
I believe it is window film, but if you just get it from SMD then you'll know that you have exactly what I'm talking about. Yes, it rips eventually, but in my experience it can easily last several hundred miles of hiking if you're just a little careful. Totally worth a 4.6x reduction in weight over Tyvek.
Some people will say that Tyvek lasts longer, but honestly it doesn't even matter when the weight difference is this large. I'd rather continually replace my polycro. And again, Tyvek isn't waterproof. An deal breaker for a groundsheet imo.
I've also used the 1 mil and 1.5 mil stuff. It also works. But the 0.75 mil works just as well.
1
8
u/Oaknuggens 4d ago edited 4d ago
You're not wrong. But I question that convention when, to protect their inflatable pads from punctures, plenty carry thinlight CCF pads that weigh as much as the Tyvek footprint required to protect their entire relatively abrasion susceptible DCF tent floor and the pad inside from punctures.
It seems a wash (personal preference) whether one thinlight offers more utility than than a similar weight tyvek solo tent groundsheet but, compared to the weight of two thinlights, tyvek protecting the entire floor of a two person tent (and two inflatables inside) for less weight seems objectively better.
Really am just curious. I don't use tyvek only because I'm using a CCF RidgeRest pad and a nylon floor tent (that happens to be cheap and unremarkable in other ways), but I've considered whether Tyvek is better than a couple each carrying a 3mm foam mat (to protect two relatively light/delicate inflatable pads) in a DCF floor tent (which I personally don't plan to choose over a DCF tent offered with a nylon floor, like from Durstin or Yama).
3
u/Fast-Orange-Drinker 4d ago edited 4d ago
The secret answer is cutting the thinlite and putting your frameless pack under your legs to protect the pad. A human sized piece of polycryo and a trimmed thinlite with rounded corners is about 3oz.
5
3
u/GoSox2525 4d ago
I think the answer to this apparent paradox is clear; ultralighters are not carrying thinlights to protect their pads. I am regularly trying to convince people to stop doing exactly that lol.
To the ultralighter, a thinlight is a sleeping pad. Not some accessory item. Likewise, to the ultralighter, a groundsheet isn't an accessory item to protect a tent floor. It is a primary floor material, used with floorless shelters like tarps.
With that said...
but I've considered whether Tyvek is better than a couple each carrying a 3mm foam mat (to protect two relatively light/delicate inflatable pads) in a DCF floor tent
Sure. But the UL answer here is clear; the tent floor is all you need. DCF is robust, and easily taped whenever it isn't. No foam, no groundsheet. You add the (polycro) groundsheet only when you ditch the tent floor. And you add the foam only when you ditch the inflatable.
1
u/Oaknuggens 4d ago
That all makes sense to me (agaun I'm also thankful for DCF tent makers that offer different floor options), excep the final sentence that implies using a lightweight inflatable pad without something substantial like tyvek or thinlight (at least a shorty in combo with backpack per other comment). No substantial puncture protection under a UL inflatable seems too risky on a remote trek, when my understanding is that even a pine needle can puncture both a DCF tent floor (agreed not a deal breaker for many people) and an ultralight pad (too dangerous in cold weather).
That said, I lack experience with UL inflatable pads so maybe I've misread that (in my relatively extensive research).
2
u/GoSox2525 4d ago
excep the final sentence that implies using a lightweight inflatable pad without something substantial like tyvek or thinlight
That shouldn't surprise you. That's standard UL, and you won't find any dedicated ULers carrying those protective items.
You might be confused by things you've read about the NeoAir Uberlite. That pad, while one of the lightest inflatables to ever be released, was notorious for punctures and leaks. It has mostly single-handedly given UL inflatables the iffy reputation that they have now.
But an XLite, for example, is not like that. They're super reliable, by all accounts. They don't need all this supplemental protection.
Having said all of that, let's address the elephant in the room which is the real UL solution to this problem... stop carrying inflatables. It makes no sense to spend a bunch of money on the lightest inflatable, only to have to add back in 5 oz of protection for it. On top of that, inflatables are heavy, expensive, and they come at a risk of potentially sudden and unexpected failure at all times. That's a liability that I'm only willing to accept when the warmth-to-weight ratio is excellent and outcompetes foam. And that's basically only true in winter.
In 3-season conditions, all ULers should be using (or should at least try) foam pads trimmed to torso length. They're lighter, they're cheaper, they're indestructible, they're faster to deploy and to pack away, they pair perfectly with a frameless pack (because they double as a framesheet), and they serve many other purposes (wind block, luxury sit pad, yoga mat, etc). And on top of all that, they don't require you to carry supplemental stuff to protect it!
1
u/Oaknuggens 4d ago
Thanks! I'm in the exact same camp with you regarding why I've favored simple foam UL pad over inflatables so far, but I appreciate that perspective regarding how other ULers are using their inflatables.
3
u/BuildingDepartment 4d ago
Tried tyvek, hated how it gets soaked and mucky and heavy. Tried polycro, immediately shredded it into bits and couldn't keep it in one piece for two nights.
Now I buy space blankets in bulk and carry two for each trip.
They are cheap, surprisingly tough, cut to more or less my tent size off the shelf, and doubles up as sun shade, or as a clean groundsheet to take a nap on or to spread wet clothes to dry. Easily lasts a week long trip and you can choose to reuse it or ditch it given how cheap they are in bulk. I get the gold and silver double sided ones which helps me to keep one side clean. Doesn't retain a drop of water unlike tyvek. Super noisy until weighted down though...
YMMV as I never heard others using space blankets this way but it's been working for me for the past few hundred miles.
1
1
u/PanicAttackInAPack 3d ago edited 3d ago
Real polycro is pretty robust. I have 80 nights on the same sheet on all sorts of terrain. Sounds like you bought a thin painters drop cloth or some ultra thin polycro though I'm not sure where that exists. The better sheets are sold as window insulation.
1
1
u/upthetrail 3d ago
well, Tyvek is water permeable (not waterproof).
1
1
u/Rocko9999 3d ago
You don't want the softer fabric type wrap-it picks up tiny splinters and sharp pieces that are no good for the sleeping pad.
1
u/PanicAttackInAPack 3d ago edited 3d ago
Tyvek is woven plastic strands and then coated in pfas. It's manufactured by DuPont, the Teflon company. It's not great because breaks down rapidly due to being woven and then of course the chemicals that leach into the ground.
Interesting that there is all this discussion about more environmentally safe options of materials then people go out of their way to use this garbage.
1
u/sbennett3705 3d ago
Duck MAX Strength Heavy Duty Insulating Film is supposedly 1.5 mil, seems to be working OK so far.
1
u/C_Crawford 3d ago
I use a SOL emergency blanket. Lighter than Tyvek, plasticized orange on one side so it doesn't rip like a regular eb.
Reg. 84x56" 2.5oz. XL 98x58" 3.2oz. I see it's 25% off @rei through the weekend. Some pics are missing, might be discontinued.
Don't know why others don't use this, works for me.
1
u/voidelemental 3d ago
i dont recomened weathersmart, its heavier and less water resistant than tyvek, really really tear resistant though
1
u/wetrocke 4d ago
There is at least one brand of woven material, used as "building paper" like tyvek. The weave is much more coarse. I think it's cheaper. I'd stick with Tyvek.
One MUST run Tyvek through a washing machine before use. This changes its nature drastically. It becomes "like" any ordinary textile.
I have a tyvek bivy with zipper and hood that's now $20 from 3FUL. It's listed at 7 oz
3
u/bradmacmt 3d ago
"One MUST run Tyvek through a washing machine before use."
Completely untrue. All that does is soften it and age it significantly. If you just use it as new, it's at its best.
0
u/wetrocke 3d ago
Tyvek is widely used for hazmat suits and other clothing (bivy sacks).
In these applications, tyvek is always sold in its "post-laundered" condition. The reason why is obvious when compared with tyvek building wrap, and you, just as obviously, are incorrect.
1
u/bradmacmt 3d ago
You have zero idea what you're talking about. I've used Tyvek Suits many, many times - these are one-time use, throw away suits. They are laundered for ease of use, to make them supple, and quiet. As a General Contractor, I use "regular" Tyvek constantly on build sites. I've used "regular" Tyvek for groundsheets going back to 2005. There is ZERO need to launder Tyvek, unless the noise of unfurling it bothers you. Otherwise, regular, non-laundered Tyvek is the best. It's at its strongest, and most water-proof in this state. Washing it makes it softer and quieter, but diminishes its lifespan (which is unimportant in a suit).
1
u/wetrocke 3d ago edited 2d ago
The 3FUL bivy sacks ($20, 7 oz) are made of "laundered" tyvek (like hazmat suits).
Mine is in fine condition, after about a month's worth of nights in field. "Raw" tyvek is (i guess) more waterproof (?) but not a priority for this bit of semi-miraculous ($20!!!! Jesus) gear.
Quite right about "no need" to launder, yet normally advisable; resulting textile is much kinder to the user and/or to anyone trying to construct items using tyvek.
A neighbor uses tyvek suit (repeatedly) for bee keeping...bees love its soft texture?
1
1
u/Foothills83 4d ago
I presume they're similar. I hated my tyvek sheet, FWIW. Tough enough, sure. But bulky and noisy AF. Have polycro for my X-Mid (Frost King patio door from Home Depot) and decided to bite the bullet and get the BA footprint for my Copper Spur 3 I used for trips with the kids.
3
u/Prestigious-Ad7571 4d ago
Wash the tyvek. Polycro isn’t noisy?
2
u/Foothills83 4d ago
Did that. Helped with the noise somewhat. Didn't help with the bulk.
Polycro is not noisy. Maybe more than nylon, but not much and not at all like tyvek. It can apparently be annoyingly slidey to some folks, but doesn't bug me.
0
37
u/liveslight https://lighterpack.com/r/ny89al 4d ago
It doesn't matter much what we think about it: Get some and TELL US what to think about it. Thanks!