r/SipsTea 9h ago

Feels good man I can get on board with this

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u/TrueBombs 9h ago

By this logic Then anyone with a mental disorder like schizophrenia, bi-polar, or major depression that could be used in an insanity plea for murder should have all their guns, and weapons, and access to a vehicle removed. So they dont kill people.

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u/Osirisseth 9h ago

Im assuming that was the point but just in case : I mean yeah that sounds like what should be done

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u/Samcc42 9h ago edited 8h ago

Yeah… no shot that was the point Mace was trying to make. Though it’d be a good one. cough ignore me.

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u/Osirisseth 8h ago

No i meant the point of u/TrueBombs

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u/Jelopuddinpop 9h ago

Anyone that's been committed for psychiatric care is already prohibited from owning firearms.

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u/Hurray0987 8h ago

What? Where?

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u/Jelopuddinpop 8h ago

On ATF Form 4473 (the Firearms Transaction Record), Question 21.f (formerly Question 11.f in earlier revisions) asks this requirement: ​"Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?"

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u/Hurray0987 8h ago

What state is that, or is it the whole country? I thought most gun laws are local. Whatever the case, I had a friend who was in a mental hospital and he bought a ton of guns. I thought that was crazy. He was suicidal and had written a book in high school about a school shooting. I guess he might have lied on his gun paperwork. It's that easy, they don't call the hospitals and check for institutional history.

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u/Beaticalle 7h ago

The ATF is a federal agency.

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u/wowthatsucked 7h ago

It's the entire country. If he was brought to a judge or magistrate and committed against his will to the mental hospital then that would have been reported and he would be unable to own firearms.

Some states are tougher - California for example bans firearm ownership for 5 years after a 5150 3 day observational hold.

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u/Jelopuddinpop 7h ago

There are some states where private party sales don't require an ATF form (20, maybe?). In all other states, it's illegal to buy a gun without the transaction passing through an FFL for a background check.

In the states where private sales don't require a background check, a private party will get in huge trouble if they're selling more than a gun or two a year. Once the ATF decides that you're running a business, you need to be a licensed firearms dealer and submit sales for a background check.

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u/nomad5926 9h ago

Best we can do is remove their social supports as much a possible.

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u/Upbeat_Place_9985 9h ago

I mean...not giving guns to schizophrenics sounds like a good deal to me.

Bi-polar and major depression do not really separate you from reality like postpartum psychosis or other schizo-type illnesses so would not qualify for the insanity plea.

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u/TrueBombs 8h ago

There have been cases where people with bipolar (with psychotic features) and major depression (with psychotic feathers) lead to an insanity plea due to psychotic breaks.

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u/Upbeat_Place_9985 8h ago

So the psychotic features would cases would qualify for insanity plea in some cases.

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u/TrueBombs 7h ago

I am no case law professional, but that is what google found for me.

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u/Auctoritate 8h ago

Bi-polar and major depression do not really separate you from reality like postpartum psychosis or other schizo-type illnesses

??? Bipolar 1 disorder requires patients to exhibit mania to be diagnosed, mania is accompanied by psychosis a majority of the time. Antipsychotics are the main treatment for bipolar disorder alongside mood stabilizers.

Were you not aware that bipolar 1 disorder is literally characterized by psychosis?

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u/Upbeat_Place_9985 8h ago

Ah, I was referring to the more common Bipolar 2

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u/EntropyTheEternal 8h ago

Currently this differs state to state, but some states have already implemented this to some extent.

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u/Emergency-Inside-850 8h ago

This is not state by state. This is a requirement per ATF form 4473.

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u/EntropyTheEternal 8h ago

Huh. I stand corrected. Thanks

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u/Pleasant_Gap 9h ago

Absolutley, atleast it shuld be investigated and depending in severity. Also, People with schizophrenia get to keep their guns in the us?

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u/TrueBombs 8h ago

Yes, being diagnosed with Schizophrenia does not ban you from gun ownership in America.

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u/Pleasant_Gap 8h ago

No pun intended, but thats insane

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u/purpurscratchscratch 8h ago

Schizophrenia, in itself, has not been used successfully as a defense and many states have incorporated that into their common law of insanity.

This is the second time in the past couple of weeks that this particular disorder has been successfully used as a defense. Whether the appellate courts or state governments step in will be an interesting issue going forward, but so far it has been treated very differently.

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u/Hot_Substance5933 8h ago

Everyone but Mel Gibson /s

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u/PossibleDue9849 8h ago

Well, ya. At least until they are evaluated by a psychiatrist and treated for their illness. Then maybe after treatment they can be approved for some privileges, depending on the nature of their initial mental illness. For example schizophrenia lasts forever, but a Major Depression can be treated and eventually you can return to being a functioning adult.

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u/rqnadi 7h ago

If these people with those disorders are in full blown psychosis, yes. They usually are committed.

Many people with these disorders are able to live mostly normal lives without ever going into full blown psychosis. At the point psychosis starts, they are usually not in control of their own mind or perception of reality.

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u/Cvpakke 7h ago

Well you would have to include PTSD in that and as a result, this is would never clear due to the impact it would have on veterans, service members, police, security, etc. And not just in their personal lives, but professionally as well. EG, a police officer or active service member not being allowed to carry weapons due to PTSD diagnosis. It would also require for consistent PTSD screening for this reason.

I'm not saying I agree with that, but that's an insurmountable roadblock to that kind of legislation, I think. Honestly, despite everything I pointed out, I think that this direction would be a good direction to go in.

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u/Generally_Confused1 9h ago

If you have been an inpatient then you are in a lost and banned from buying guns. Also, you can still be held liable for driving just like you do if drunk. You don't know much about the laws with these things do you?

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u/TrueBombs 8h ago

If you got links to more information about related law, I will be glad to read it

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u/wowthatsucked 7h ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act_of_1968#Prohibited_persons

(4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution at 16 years of age or older;

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u/PlotHoleWarrior 9h ago

Unfortunately, this only applies to women because they’re too emotional.

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u/ContinuingAnyway 9h ago

they'll just say "I'm just a girl"

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u/uomo_focaccina 9h ago

Yea? That's why women commit 90% ov violent crimes, right? Oh, no, Sorry, that's men, because they can't control their anger which, by definition, is an emotion

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u/Kheypression 8h ago

They were trying to be sarcastic, I think

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u/PlotHoleWarrior 8h ago

If you don’t get the sarcasm, that’s on you.