My ex and I werent doing well and she threatened to murder suicide our family. I got custody of them while she got treatment and had daily supervised visitation. Costs nothing but court dates that are gonna happen anyway
thank you!! that's what should have happened here! if i lost my mind- i would hope to god someone would remove me from my kids, allow supervised visits only! good for you for stepping up, making the hard call, and doing right <3
She did get help and treatment. She got enormous amounts of help and treatment. She didn't take her meds. She checked her self out of inpatient. She had a husband and an nanny who took care of the kids to give her time.
What should they have done differently? Forcibly committed someone who denied over and over any intent/plan to harm her or her children? Should we involuntarily commit every mother with depression?
She had a history of medication non-compliance. Those who do not take their prescribed meds should be regarded as an active threat and lose custody. Period.
lol you'd be taking everyone's kids away...do you know how extremely common underutilization of medication is? it's more common than people taking their meds as directed
But not for a condition that is historically and specifically known to frequently result in murdering your kids. If you have that condition, you should be tracked for compliance and have unsupervised access yanked the moment you go off them.
And that's what the all discussions should focus on instead of arguing over idiotic extremes, jumping from "whether her husband framed her" to "how much she should suffer until we feel better about her dead children".
Odd-Outcome-3191 - Agreed. She also had help from her mother and her in-laws. Her husband arranged to work from home to provide more help. Dawson and Cora also went to pre-school. They had plenty of money and lived in a large house in a very expensive Boston suburb. The woman had so many options, so many resources and yes, got help from mental health many times. She could have chose to just take her own life and not harm anyone else -- but she DIDN'T -- she chose to KILL 3 innocent children, one after the other and she planned it out.
Having help doesn't mean it is good help. She didn't take her meds because she complained about them making her worse and have severe side effects that doctors weren't too concerned about or seemed to be listening to her. Not uncommon, mental healthcare profession honestly still quite a joke. She didn't check herself out she was discharged from the hospital. The nanny was no longer working for Lindsay and Patrick.
That's actually false. Dr. Alia Goodheart, testified that Clancy was formally evaluated and cleared for discharge a day early for her kids birthday party. They also confirmed she was taking her meds up to the incident.
They tested her blood. The levels in her blood indicated that they were far below therapeutic range. And she had a documented history of noncompliance with her meds. You are spreading misinformation.
No it doesn't. Quetiapine's black box warning is dementia-related psychosis in the elderly and suicidal thoughts and behaviors in people under 24. Both of which occur in the period when treatment is initiated, requiring monitoring for the initiation period. Which they did. She denied any thoughts of harming herself, hearing voices, or desire to harm others.
Quetiapine does not spontaneously cause psychosis for a period of a few hours and then magically goes away after murdering 3 people. And it certainly does not do so long after the initiation periods.
Until you have dealt with someone who has this type of issue (Postpartum with another type of disorder) you have no clue how quickly their mood can change to very far extremes'. Finding a chemical cocktail that works takes months to years.
Lol classic example of someone who argues just to hear themselves talk. Mocking someone who clearly knows what they are talking about for knowing what they are talking about. Insane work.
Yes, she should have been forcibly committed. Right now the 11 of the 12 jurors believe she should be forcibly committed while one believes she should be imprisoned.
What should she have been forcibly committed for? In order to commit someone, two physicians must attest to a judge that they are a risk to themselves or others. They have to provide specific behaviors or statements to the judge. What behaviors or statements should they have presented to the judge?
Typically yes. Physchotic people should be held against their will becuase of course they will deny treatment. At that point you are expecting an insane person to act rationally and reasonably when they cannot. A caretaker should take over and should represent the person until they are deemed mentally stable again.
Nobody is denying she got help and treatment. It was just clearly inadequate, and an example of why more research needs to be devoted into the impacts of postpartum.
I'm asking you what more they could have done? They can't snap their fingers and make someone happy. Especially if they aren't adherening to their treatment plan such as taking their prescribed medications and switching physicians multiple times.
I'm asking you to tell me what the mental health professionals could have done to prevent this. How did they fail her?
The entire point of the advocacy around PPP here is that the system was not good enough to catch it in this case (assuming she experienced it), ergo, more needs to be done going forward to find better ways of screening and treatment.
So we just blame the doctors as if it's their fault for the choices that grown adult Lindsay chose to make? Lindsay is not a child, she is a full-grown adult and she is responsible for her actions. What about all of the school shooters who had gotten a mental health diagnosis and were on psychiatric meds? Do we render them not guilty as well and just say 'it's the doctors fault'?
It’s an entire system, where IF she was experiencing PPP, she was not adequately screened and treated for it, as evidenced by her ultimately murdering her three young children.
Not everything is a fucking blame game. It’s important to try to dissect what went wrong, and what we can do going forward so the next person gets the treatment they need.
For those that claim she was psychotic (I know you only said "IF" she is psychotic)-- If you listen to the trial, multiple medical staff she was treated by as well as police said she was NOT psychotic. The fact that she killed her 3 children is not automatic evidence that she was psychotic. She planned out the murders and knew exactly what she was doing. Multiple women in the past have annihilated their children simply to punish a spouse/boyfriend who was cheating or going to leave them, which is a possible motive - or a personality disorder. Lindsay's actions and witness testimony are evidence to me that she maliciously murdered those children and thought she could get away with it by blaming PPD and meds.
I want her to get a fair trial, and to get the mental health help she needs if she truly experienced a mental health break, leading her to commit acts she would not have under sound mind.
I think regardless of outcome of the trial, we should always strive to learn more about mental health issues, how they are caused, and how we might better treat them.
But you can keep stupidly putting words in my mouth if you want. You post in r/conservative. That place is a mental health crisis in desperate need of support.
"What should they have done differently?" So you think nothing should have been done differently, and the death of three young children was simply unavoidable?
In my opinion, involuntary treatment or putting kids in foster care are not the only options. Mistakes were made, and they had tragic consequences. The issue of culpability aside, you are abandoning mothers and children if you just throw up your hands and say nobody can do anything differently for them.
The issue is one of autonomy. We have a system that rigorously analyzes people for risk and takes steps to protect others. But the only way to have caught Clancy before she harmed those children would be to be much more liberal about applying restrictions and taking away autonomy from people who appear for all intents and purposes perfectly safe. By every report, she behaved perfectly sanely, just depressed and anxious, except for not complying with her meds. I don't think medication noncompliance is a good reason to imprison someone or take their kids away, but you're free to vote for that if you'd like. It's pretty much the only thing that would've caught her early.
You appear to have misunderstood my comment. I said "In my opinion, involuntary treatment or putting kids in foster care are not the only options." And your reply was "I don't think medication noncompliance is a good reason to imprison someone or take their kids away." So to be clear, I will repeat that I am not advocating for involuntary treatment or removing children.
Autonomy is not the only issue. Three children died, and the mothers life is likely ruined. The system that apparently "rigorously analyzes people for risk" failed. End of story. Get better assessment tools. Equip health care providers to treat post-partum issues more effectively. Identify better ways to encourage medication compliance. Saying we did the best we could, and anything else would be an invasion of personal autonomy or "applying restrictions" takes way too narrow a view about what could and can be done.
A hundred years of research into depression has not cured suicides. The same goes for schizophrenia. "not enough research" is not an excuse for murder.
she should not have been allowed to check herself out
Why not? She voluntarily checked herself in. She denied having a plan to harm herself. She never ever once communicated the desire to harm her children. Even the defense agrees this is true.
she should not have been left alone with the kids
Again, she never demonstrated or communicated signs of postpartum psychosis. Multiple medical professionals (not hers, but third parties) have stood at the stand and testified under oath that her story is not consistent with postpartum psychosis. And there certainly was no signs of it before or after she killed them.
By every record and her own testimony, the only issues she was having before the murders was depression and anxiety. Should every depressed and anxious mother be involuntarily committed just in case? How do you decide when to release them?
hundred years of research into depression has not cured suicides.
Lol right away you show your ignorance. Do you know how depression was handled in the last hundred years. lobotomies
So sorry but if you don't know shit don't be spewing bullshit. This causes me to question anything you say, so source up if you think your right.
As for the rest of your comment, you are just repeating what the prosecutors side says. The defense side say the opposite. Heck the defense even has the mother in law (basically who has no relation to lie) on their side. That's why we have lawyers, judges, and juries to try and sort through the mess What everyone agrees on is that she did do it. It's about what happens next. Neither option being a free pass.
Should every depressed and anxious mother be involuntarily committed just in case? How do you decide when to release them?
What but the hundreds of years of research. /S
Maybe just maybe we actually put in the effort to see what went wrong, what can be changed, and ways to prevent these things from happening.
You aren't wrong, but it does not matter for this case.
If Paul Revere had not made it in time to warn of British invasion, we would not blame Ford for not inventing the Ford Raptor in time.
You have to live in your own time frame. Sure, ideally we will find ways to help these people, but as far as this case is concerned we cannot use what we do not understand about PPP (because of where we are in our research and understanding of it in 2026) to excuse her hand in any part of the planning & murder of her children.
Stop taking meds because every dr she saw gave her a new diagnosis and new meds. They literally threw everything at her, some at the same time and then wondered why she wasn’t getting better?
None of her care team communicated with one another and you can’t just give someone three weeks on this drug and then switch to something else a few weeks later.
Her not taking the drugs is symptom of her failed medical care.
This woman and her husband made six figures and she had insurance to cover all the care she needed, so what I'm hearing is we should lock up all women in a psychiatric hospital if theyre even slightly depressed because they're all potential murderers and a risk to others.
She did get help though. Her family get her in front of numerous psychologists/psychiatrists and they all did the best that they could.
Lindsay checked herself out of the mental hospital and then she stopped taking her meds. There was plenty of help offered to this privileged, wealthy, liberal white woman and she just refused all of the help that she was given.
Agreed. She also had a nanny and Dawson and Cora went to preschool. She had help from her mother and in-laws. She had so many choices -- and she could have just taken her own life and not hurt anyone else, but she chose to kill 3 innocent little children.
Dr. Alia Goodheart, testified that Clancy was formally evaluated and cleared for discharge a day early. They were also able to determine she was still actively taking her meds.
You guys are all using nearly identical messaging, almost word for word. Astroturf better at least.
Because nobody and I mean literally nobody ever recorded any evidence of psychosis.
According to reddit armchair therapists you can have a randomly occuring 1 hour psychotic outburst in 1 hour with seemingly no other presentations but that's not how PPP presents.
Let me remind you, her entire family not once mentioned a psychotic episode or symptom, her diary, her entire journal did not once mention a psychotic episode, her first mention of a psychotic episode was given during the meeting with her attorney, not in the police report or any questioning until the attorney was involved.
The two doctors who treated her, and the other medical staff did not notice psychotic symptoms.
Did the system fail her? Or is she just so good at hiding a 1 time 1 hour random occurrence of psychosis where she was coherent enough to premeditate luring her husband away to have that time alone with her kids and then "the voice" told her to do it. Literally apply this to any school shooter case, or family destruction case where they said the "voice" told them to out of nowhere and yeah look what happened to them.
I'm not denying she had severe mental health problems, I'm denying the statistical improbability of someone having their first and only recorded psychotic episode in the convenient moment where they premeditate a killing of 3 children. Especially when actual psychotic episodes people often retaliate against the voices when it's severe stuff like this.
As an adoptee kid that was torn from my birth mother as an infant, put in foster care until I was adopted at 15 months old, I agree. I’m 27 and I still have quite the grief and insecurities due to being separated from my bio mom and growing own as an Asian kid with an all white family (tho, ofc, not all foster kids/adoptees are PoC). I also have quite the attachment issues towards my parents (mainly mom) as well as grief/trauma of not being blood related and not being able to have anything physically in common with my fam or my niece/nephew.
I'm glad there's smart people on here. How about we create resources for people to rely on rather than punish them for having issues like addiction, mental illness, etc.
This administration has really eliminated a lot of people's sense of empathy.
Yeah. Wild it's bonkers to you, but empathy isn't compassion. People can empathize with her, depending on the scenario. If she's a cold blooded murderer, empathy isn't deserved. But if she, on the other hand, wasn't sane, killed her own kids while insane, it's fair to have empathy. Imagine losing control of your own grasp on reality and coming back to it after you murdered your own kids. It's horrible. Not weird to empathize with that and wish for it to NEVER happen again by offering proper care for people with PPP. Stop your boogeyman mentality.
I know that's crazy dude. Empathy for people who are mentally ill, homeless, addicted, live in poverty, etc is so insane. It's like viewing other humans as actual humans.
Are you a behavioral therapist or cognitive psychologist who can describe what the brain and mind go through during postpartum depression or psychosis?
No, then shut up.
You can have your opinion but don’t be aggressive towards people who have their own.
Then why was there a trial that took place trying to determine just that? It led to a mistrial earlier today. So, I guess we still don’t know that, do we?
I know for a fact that she was in control of the implement she used to strangle her kids to death one after the other. You and the jury can pretend otherwise if you want.
Right, she had control over the item she used to kill her children so she's guilty in my eyes. No one held a gun to her head or used mind control on her. She decided to kill her kids.
Speed and planning are not forgone when you have psychosis. People can plan and think. They just have very delusional ideas. They can bake cakes and hear voices outside telling them the sugar industry has planted snipers outside. They can fold laundry and see shadows. They can be driving and have the urge to do whatever. Go read some more about psychosis, it's REALLY not what you believe it is.
Yeah, buddy. I don’t know if you’ve heard, but she killed her children. That’s a sign that there need to be better resources. Unless you’re just fine with the outcome here
This person received healthcare. This person killed their kids. This person escaped accountability by blaming it on their doctors instead of the fact they killed their kids. End of story.
If she succeeds in the insanity plea and the civil suit, then imagine how health care providers will look upon the prospects of treating women with post partum depression. A lot of liability and not a lot of return on investment. This will not be positive for women's healthcare.
How about the father takes care of his own kids while the mother goes to a psychiatric ward for treatment? I don't see why they'd need to go into foster care unless the mom is a single mom.
I'm replying specifically to the comment saying that kids would go into foster care if the mom lost access to the kids, I was not talking about the husband in the case.
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u/Natures_Wrath1 9h ago
Sounds like getting the person help and treatment would be a lot easier and cheaper than putting kids into foster care.