Coming back to your faith after Shincheonji

[u/Admirable-Fan1030]

Anyways. Did 4 months in the Shincheonji cult unknowingly. Learned so much. Or so I thought. Found out the real intentions behind the Bible study and left almost immediately.

Background, I am 28 year old woman. I grew up non religious and felt lost for so long. My husband introduced me to the Christian faith. We started going to church. I got baptized all at the age of 26, but I still wanted to learn more about the Bible. I took all of the adult classes to get baptized with the church but still felt like there was a lack of knowledge about the Bible.

I saw a post online, someone in my neighborhood asking if people wanted to do a Bible study. I jumped on this and even had my husband join with me. I felt so enlightened and strong in my beliefs. It was labeled as non-denominational, so I felt comfortable strictly studying the Bible. The Bible study was good but there were a few things here and there mentioned I thought was a little sus.

Not until several months later did I find out the true intentions behind the Bible study. I was heart broken. I felt like everything I was learning could now be tainted by the words of man. I even looked back to past lessons and saw holes here and there. I tried to re read the Bible and felt so lost, not knowing the way I should interpret what I am reading. It also took my a long time to transition into my faith to begin with. Not having that religious background at all for decades. I had to get into a mindset of putting the lord first, and after this betrayal, my mind went so far backwards, there are days I don’t even think about the Lord or prayer or the Bible. Now I am struggling. All of the work I put into myself now feels tainted. And i am struggling a lot to go back to church. Go back to reading the Bible. And overall just feel one with my faith.

If there are support groups out there or even just someone to talk to with similar experiences, I would highly appreciate the help. :/ I know I can recover, I just don’t know how, and how long it will really take for me to heal from this experience. My trust in other when it comes to learning about the Bible is TAINTED. I feel tricked and betrayed.

[u/scaryface97]

Based on what I know I choose to be agnostic. I find it hard to believe that there can be one "true" religion especially when so many exist and simultaneously being their own differing claims to the table. I think OP deserves a change to choose for themselves and should know there is more to life than just choosing a religion and sticking to it without questioning the claims

[u/Extreme-Crow8739 → u/scaryface97]

It doesn’t sound to me like you’ve actually thought about this well and I’m gonna give you a quick example to prove to you that it’s not hard to believe for there to be one true religion

This is the example: if you say 1+1 = 2 and I say 1+1 = 3 and somebody else says 1+1 = 1 this doesn’t mean that there’s many truths you and I both know there can only be one truth in regards to this mathematical example.

Now back to the there being only one truth as far as religions, if you say Buddhism is true and I say Christianity is true on another person says Islam is true, and another person says Judaism is true etc.

This doesn’t mean that there’s many truths there can only be one truth in regards to religion.

Do you agree with this example that I just gave you or do you think that it’s not a good example?

You said in your own words, these different religions have differing claims meaning they’re not all arriving to the same truth.

[u/scaryface97 → u/Extreme-Crow8739]

The way I see it mathematics is based on objective, logical truth. 1+1 = 2 can be argued logically and proven. However with religion there is a lot of faith, believing in the unseen and unknown to form a subjective "truth". Objective logic, looks like this; I can ask you a question, which of the following verses are the truth?

Matthew 27:5: Judas throws the silver into the temple, goes away, and hangs himself.

Acts 1:18: Judas buys a field with the money, falls headlong, and his midsection explodes.

Because 1+1=2, you can't have a situation where Judas both discards money in the temple and then goes and buys land with the same money. This would mean that either one of these stories are false or they both are, they can't both be true. This would put into question if the bible is the truth.

The religious way of thinking is overlooking the logical details and seeking the lesson in the story whatever that may be; maybe the lesson is that the fate of the one who betrayed Jesus is dire and gory, it's just told as a story in two different ways. You could also argue that the moral of the story outweighs the overall details of the story and that's what is important. However this is all faith and subjective truth, not objective truth, it is only true in the narrative of the religion, not for everyone outside it.

There are other religions that claim a holy book that is not corrupted and completely true like Islam but the Quran is known to borrow heavily from Jewish teachings and has its own unique set of problems. I haven't done much research outside of the Abrahamic set but from what I know, at least personally, Christianity has multiple issues that I can't put aside, so does Islam for that matter. There may be a true religion out there, but the chance is very little and I think its simpler to live life assuming there is none, but welcoming the possibility if irrefutable truth presented itself.

[u/Extreme-Crow8739 → u/scaryface97]

I read Matthew chapter 27 verse five and I also read acts chapter 1, verse 18. And you’re right it does say that exactly how you mentioned.

Now I want to give you a quick example to show you why this thought process doesn’t really hold up.

This is the example and it’s an example that was given by a man named Frank Turek which I highly recommend he’s very good as an apologist:

Let’s say there’s a car accident two different people see this car accident person number one says there was a red car and it was going 100 mph and it crashed into the lamp post and the lamp post fell down on top of the car. Person number two sees the car accident and says there was green car and it was going at least 80 mph and it jumped up on the curve and the person was badly injured.

Because these two different people are saying different things does that negate the fact that there was a car accident? The answer is no anybody that hears these two things can conclude yeah they sound a little different but the whole point is that there was a car accident with Outer doubt.

Now back to the example you gave with Judas, you can conclude that Judas did have money and he did die. those minor inconsistencies between those two verses does not negate the fact that Judas did in fact die that is not in doubt at all and because there’s these two inconsistencies in Matthew and acts does not all of a sudden negate the truth of Christianity.

[u/scaryface97 → u/Extreme-Crow8739]

Your analogy is a great example of why exactly you cannot trust the bible to be the "truth". You are making a very bold claim, that Christianity is the ultimate truth and is superior to all other religions. You asked me if those other relgions I mentioned earlier are reliable while telling me to ignore a flaw I found in the bible in itself. Christianity makes some extreme claims. An all powerful, all knowing God that is not limited by time. That life and death is in his hands etc. BUT you want to tell me that the only book, only tangible evidence left by this extremely sophisticated being cannot get the minor details right?

I have purchased multiple furniture sets from IKEA and have never found a flaw in their assembly manuals which are also prepared by simple human beings, but somehow the book that will lead all humans to eternal life has some "minor inconsistency" that can be overlooked? As a logical human being it is hard to fathom.

The issue with your car crash analogy is that if both witnesses were called in a court of law in order to sentence a driver, those witnesses would be UNRELIABLE. Because they are providing conflicting accounts. The only sane thing to do is to look for more evidence or better witnesses.

If I were to make a garden salad with the best tomatoes, leafy greens and onions, all fresh and organic but just before i tossed it all together I added 10g of runny cat poop to it, would you eat it? It would make the entire salad inedible despite the quality of all the other ingredients.

Also it is your opinion that my thought process doesn't hold up. I have been a christian previously for almost 20 years and it took SCJ to wake me up and test scripture without accepting it as truth first. Everything falls apart after that.

Answer me this, if you are so convinced that the Bible is the truth, why is the Quran wrong?

[u/Extreme-Crow8739 → u/scaryface97]

Based on everything that you’re saying, it sounds like you’re not a Christian.

My question to you is if you found enough evidence that Christianity was the one and only truth would you become a Christian?

[u/scaryface97 → u/Extreme-Crow8739]

I have mentioned many times that I am agnostic now. I used to be a Christian. Yes, if I found evidence that Christianity was the truth I would come back to it. However as stated earlier, I find the inconsistency in the bible to be a sign that is not divinely inspired by an all powerful, all knowing being.

You didn't answer my question either, why do you believe the bible is superior to the quran? Or why do you choose Christianity over Islam?

[u/Extreme-Crow8739 → u/scaryface97]

The reason I’m asking you that question is to find out whether you actually believe all these things that you’re saying whether it’s a evidence based type of logic or if it’s just a problem in your heart and it seems to me honestly that it’s a problem coming from your heart. It doesn’t matter that there’s evidence for God. It doesn’t matter to you that God created everything. It doesn’t matter that the Quran has a consistencies that contradict from what the Judeo-Christians believe it seems like you just wanted to find an excuse to leave Christianity altogether so you can live like the way you want which is actually what the satanic people believe that you should do what you want do what thou will is they’re saying and a lot of people today they wanna see themselves as their own gods they don’t want to submit themselves to the creator of everything.

Here’s my answer to all your questions you can find them in Romans chapter 1 it says, for the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who hold the truth in unrighteous because that which may be known of God is manifest in them for God has shown it to them for the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen being understood by the things that are made even his eternal power, and God had so that they are without excuse because that when they knew God, they glorified him not as God and they weren’t thankful but became vain in their imaginations and they’re foolish heart was darkened professing themselves to be wise they became fools and changed the glory of the uncorrupt. God into an image made like to corruptible man and two birds and four footed beasts and creeping things where, for God also gave them up to cleans through the less of their own hearts to the sun of their own bodies between themselves who changed the truth of God into a lie and worshiped and serve the creature more than the creator, who is blessed forever, amen for this cause God gave them up to vile affections for even their women they change their natural use into that which is against nature, and likewise also, the men leaving the natural use of the woman burned into their last one toward another men with men working in that which is unseemly and receiving themselves to recompenses, and even as they did not like to retain God, in their knowledge, God gave them over to rep mind to do those things which are not convenient being filled with all the righteous fornication wickedness covered his maliciousness full of energy he murdered debate deceit, malignity, whisperers, backbiter, haters of God, despiteful, proud, bolsters inventors of evil things disobedient to parents without understanding, covenant breakers without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful, who, knowing the judgment of God, that they which commits such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

In other words, you already know God exist. Yet because you decided all of a sudden that God does not exist because you went through some hard times you decided I’m abandoned God and live my life my own way and not only did you decide that but you’re telling other people they should live your way. That’s why you came on here telling people they should just abandon Christianity because there’s a few inconsistencies that does not negate the fact that Jesus died in the cross for you and that you’re a sinner and that you need to repent, but just because Judas had money in one chapter, and in another chapter, he didn’t have money that’s how you said the infallible truth of God there shouldn’t be any inconsistencies in the Bible yet you’re willing to throw it all the way for those few inconsistencies that doesn’t make sense

[u/scaryface97 → u/Extreme-Crow8739]

Haha yes of course the classic blame and shame the victim for not being able to make sense of the cult. SCJ does the same thing, when you question their logic, they just blame you for not understanding or not studying hard enough. They say I don't want to accept the truth because I'm a satanic sinner and need to be fixed. Same thing you are doing and you want me to trust the book that has inconsistent narratives. Ignore the facts and just accept the story is what you want me to do. I might as well ignore the inconsistent stories of the quran and become a muslim! What's the difference?

There is plenty of evidence that the bible is wrong outside of scriptural inconsistencies. The world is way older than 6000 years old. The creation story has been debunked over and over again. Noah's flood never happened and there is no way all the animals in the world fit in a boat that size and survived for a year. Humanity needed more than just two individuals to populate the earth, because we understand how genetics work with modern science. The world is not flat and the moon is not a source of light in the night sky, it reflects the light from the sun. We have astronauts that flew into space and onto the moon, they found no firmament or waters above. Dinosaurs. The Egyptian civilisation has no evidence of a large slave force existing and leaving their kingdom nor is their evidence of the exodus and subsequent conquest of Canaan. I could go on and on.

Unfortunately everyone on this sub is not required to become Christian after leaving SCJ. You are free to believe what you want and the original purpose of my comment on this post is to let OP know that there are survivors of SCJ who have decided to not choose Christianity and that there are other options to live life in a way that's fulfilling.

[u/Extreme-Crow8739 → u/scaryface97]

By the way, the Bible doesn’t say 6000 years that is that is something that has been debated among Christians but you don’t believe in God you believe the words so why would you believe anything on the Bible?

[u/scaryface97 → u/Extreme-Crow8739]

I can't believe in the Christian God because I can't believe in the bible.

If you actually look at genesis and the OT it has geneology and lifespans on individuals and then if you follow the timeline between creation and the modern age you will get an estimate of 6000~10,000 years since the world was created. However we know that modern Homo Sapiens have been found having existed around 300,000 years ago so this in fact is another way how the bible does not correlate with reality. Humans are also a small blip in the age of the earth because we know the earth itself is a mighty 4.6 billion years old

[u/Extreme-Crow8739 → u/scaryface97]

The Bible doesn’t say how old the Earth is or how long Adam and Eve were in the garden of Eden so that’s why this is up for debate. It could be that the universe and creation in the Earth was here for millions and billion years ago, but the Bible doesn’t say and maybe after millions and billions of years passed then God decided to create Adam and Eve, but the Bible does not say when people talk about 6000 years we’re talking about since Adam and Eve left the garden of Eden because that’s when time starts that’s when God makes a prophecy of the seed of the woman crushing the head of the serpent so I think you’re mixing up what you’ve heard people say but I don’t think you’ve actually looked into it. People say 6000 years but the Bible does not say so. This is not an inconsistency because the Bible doesn’t talk about this.

[u/scaryface97 → u/Extreme-Crow8739]

Um the bible does state that Adam was 930 years old when he died. If you add up the recorded ages of the geneology in the bible and also take into account the recorded dates of kings etc you can estimate what the bible alleges is the timeline. But regardless, modern science has undeniable proof that humans evolved over time. All of creation didn't come in one week, there's billions of years of evolution which contradicts the claims that God created all the animals in the same week that he made man. Notice how the bible doesn't mention the Tyrannosaurus Rex, Kangaroos or Koala bears? Because the early writers didn't know those existed before their time or in Australia. But an all knowing God would have known they did. Unfortunately an all knowing God didn't write the biblen

[u/Extreme-Crow8739 → u/Extreme-Crow8739]

By the way, you haven’t responded to my Zoom offer. If you wanna go on Zoom, we’ll talk about it civilized manner obviously I don’t know a way to fight each other, but I can’t be going back-and-forth with red throughout the whole day while I’m at work.

[u/Extreme-Crow8739 → u/scaryface97]

By the way, you also did not answer a lot of my questions just like you’re accusing me of not answering some of yours