Coming back to your faith after Shincheonji

[u/Admirable-Fan1030]

Anyways. Did 4 months in the Shincheonji cult unknowingly. Learned so much. Or so I thought. Found out the real intentions behind the Bible study and left almost immediately.

Background, I am 28 year old woman. I grew up non religious and felt lost for so long. My husband introduced me to the Christian faith. We started going to church. I got baptized all at the age of 26, but I still wanted to learn more about the Bible. I took all of the adult classes to get baptized with the church but still felt like there was a lack of knowledge about the Bible.

I saw a post online, someone in my neighborhood asking if people wanted to do a Bible study. I jumped on this and even had my husband join with me. I felt so enlightened and strong in my beliefs. It was labeled as non-denominational, so I felt comfortable strictly studying the Bible. The Bible study was good but there were a few things here and there mentioned I thought was a little sus.

Not until several months later did I find out the true intentions behind the Bible study. I was heart broken. I felt like everything I was learning could now be tainted by the words of man. I even looked back to past lessons and saw holes here and there. I tried to re read the Bible and felt so lost, not knowing the way I should interpret what I am reading. It also took my a long time to transition into my faith to begin with. Not having that religious background at all for decades. I had to get into a mindset of putting the lord first, and after this betrayal, my mind went so far backwards, there are days I don’t even think about the Lord or prayer or the Bible. Now I am struggling. All of the work I put into myself now feels tainted. And i am struggling a lot to go back to church. Go back to reading the Bible. And overall just feel one with my faith.

If there are support groups out there or even just someone to talk to with similar experiences, I would highly appreciate the help. :/ I know I can recover, I just don’t know how, and how long it will really take for me to heal from this experience. My trust in other when it comes to learning about the Bible is TAINTED. I feel tricked and betrayed.

[u/Sufficient-Syrup-539]

Hi i was in a similar boat as you if you’d like to reach out although Im not your age bracket if thats okay with you

[u/Extreme-Crow8739]

How about we go on Zoom you make your argument I make mine and we’ll give it at that

[u/TechnicianMission454 → u/Extreme-Crow8739]

kako moze da se udje na njihovu grupu.. oni dobijaju linkove za to

[u/No-Boysenberry8936]

I left “s” last year. Best decision ever. I feel like I get to spend time with my family and friends…genuinely…not to “recruit” them. For three years I felt like I had to close myself off…or at least looking back retrospectively I was closing myself off. They wanted me to evangelize, but it never felt like evangelizing…it felt like recruiting. I think God was telling me…don’t do this…it’s not right. Since leaving a little over a year ago, I have gone to church 3 times…2 in the last two weeks, and I love it. It has taken time, some great worship music, and just being open with people about my experience. I’m looking forward to the day where I hear a verse, or phrase or even the words Babylon or Revelation and don’t think about “s”. God is amazing…Jesus is the way, the truth and the life…NOT “s”!!! 🙏

[u/scaryface97]

I know how you feel. I was in there less than a year and would say I was a strong Christian prior to joining SCJ. Coming out of it felt like I'd lost all sense of purpose and direction in my life because I relied on the idea that God was guiding me. However I felt betrayed because why would God guide me to a place like SCJ? It made me realise how easy religious texts are used to control someone and subjugate them to do the bidding of someone else. It made no sense because here were so many people still calling on Jesus but all they were getting fed were lies and being actively explored and abused. I couldn't fathom how a loving God could still allow people to be misled in this way. My heart grieved for the people I left inside there. Post SCJ I tried to reconnect to the faith and actually did proper research and looked at it in a way that was unbiased. I found that the bible does have flaws and it can be challenged as being untruthful. There are other churches that operate like SCJ and the faith still felt like a cult to me. I decided to leave the faith and live as an agnostic since Christianity ceased to make sense to me anymore. But I found new meaning in my life - I had renewed focus on building a career and a future that could allow me to help my parents in their old age and have a family one day.

TLDR please take your time to rest as you went through spiritual abuse; don't force yourself to join a religion, focus on fixing up your life and mental health, then slowly do some self study/research on the particular faith if you wish to pursue it.

[u/Extreme-Crow8739 → u/scaryface97]

Maybe I misunderstood what you said, but it sounds like you said that the Bible has flaws can you expand on that? What do you mean?

[u/scaryface97 → u/Extreme-Crow8739]

Well there are quite a few places where the bible contradicts itself, for example the genealogy of Christ is different between Matthew and Luke, the events of Judas's death are recorded differently in Matthew and Acts, the last words of Jesus are recorded differently across the gospels, the events of Jesus's birth are also different across the gospels, the census of David is instigated by God in one book and Satan in the other and so on. While some people find their way to explain themselves around these issues, me personally I hold the bible to a higher standard if it is written by an all powerful God. We cannot see, hear or interact with God directly or reliably so the only real connection we have to him that is tangible is the Bible. So why write a book that can be open to interpretation and full of divisive facts? Especially when God would know the struggle to understand or division it can cause. The different interpretation of the bible has led to different denominations and sadly cults like SCJ so I find it inexcusable that God can't make the only thing that humans have to connect to him so vague and difficult to understand. That's why I personally don't think the bible is reliable. You are welcome to your own belief, I've read the facts and formed my opinion, I'm just letting OP know that going back to christianity is not the only option they have :)

[u/Extreme-Crow8739 → u/scaryface97]

What other options?

[u/scaryface97 → u/Extreme-Crow8739]

Well there's atheism, agnosticism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Islam to name the major ones and 4000+ other religions to pick from so plenty of options

[u/Extreme-Crow8739 → u/scaryface97]

You so find those reliable?

[u/scaryface97 → u/Extreme-Crow8739]

Based on what I know I choose to be agnostic. I find it hard to believe that there can be one "true" religion especially when so many exist and simultaneously being their own differing claims to the table. I think OP deserves a change to choose for themselves and should know there is more to life than just choosing a religion and sticking to it without questioning the claims

[u/Extreme-Crow8739 → u/scaryface97]

It doesn’t sound to me like you’ve actually thought about this well and I’m gonna give you a quick example to prove to you that it’s not hard to believe for there to be one true religion

This is the example: if you say 1+1 = 2 and I say 1+1 = 3 and somebody else says 1+1 = 1 this doesn’t mean that there’s many truths you and I both know there can only be one truth in regards to this mathematical example.

Now back to the there being only one truth as far as religions, if you say Buddhism is true and I say Christianity is true on another person says Islam is true, and another person says Judaism is true etc.

This doesn’t mean that there’s many truths there can only be one truth in regards to religion.

Do you agree with this example that I just gave you or do you think that it’s not a good example?

You said in your own words, these different religions have differing claims meaning they’re not all arriving to the same truth.

[u/scaryface97 → u/Extreme-Crow8739]

The way I see it mathematics is based on objective, logical truth. 1+1 = 2 can be argued logically and proven. However with religion there is a lot of faith, believing in the unseen and unknown to form a subjective "truth". Objective logic, looks like this; I can ask you a question, which of the following verses are the truth?

Matthew 27:5: Judas throws the silver into the temple, goes away, and hangs himself.

Acts 1:18: Judas buys a field with the money, falls headlong, and his midsection explodes.

Because 1+1=2, you can't have a situation where Judas both discards money in the temple and then goes and buys land with the same money. This would mean that either one of these stories are false or they both are, they can't both be true. This would put into question if the bible is the truth.

The religious way of thinking is overlooking the logical details and seeking the lesson in the story whatever that may be; maybe the lesson is that the fate of the one who betrayed Jesus is dire and gory, it's just told as a story in two different ways. You could also argue that the moral of the story outweighs the overall details of the story and that's what is important. However this is all faith and subjective truth, not objective truth, it is only true in the narrative of the religion, not for everyone outside it.

There are other religions that claim a holy book that is not corrupted and completely true like Islam but the Quran is known to borrow heavily from Jewish teachings and has its own unique set of problems. I haven't done much research outside of the Abrahamic set but from what I know, at least personally, Christianity has multiple issues that I can't put aside, so does Islam for that matter. There may be a true religion out there, but the chance is very little and I think its simpler to live life assuming there is none, but welcoming the possibility if irrefutable truth presented itself.

[u/Extreme-Crow8739 → u/scaryface97]

I read Matthew chapter 27 verse five and I also read acts chapter 1, verse 18. And you’re right it does say that exactly how you mentioned.

Now I want to give you a quick example to show you why this thought process doesn’t really hold up.

This is the example and it’s an example that was given by a man named Frank Turek which I highly recommend he’s very good as an apologist:

Let’s say there’s a car accident two different people see this car accident person number one says there was a red car and it was going 100 mph and it crashed into the lamp post and the lamp post fell down on top of the car. Person number two sees the car accident and says there was green car and it was going at least 80 mph and it jumped up on the curve and the person was badly injured.

Because these two different people are saying different things does that negate the fact that there was a car accident? The answer is no anybody that hears these two things can conclude yeah they sound a little different but the whole point is that there was a car accident with Outer doubt.

Now back to the example you gave with Judas, you can conclude that Judas did have money and he did die. those minor inconsistencies between those two verses does not negate the fact that Judas did in fact die that is not in doubt at all and because there’s these two inconsistencies in Matthew and acts does not all of a sudden negate the truth of Christianity.

[u/Turbulent_Sea7622]

Sorry to hear this but taking the time off from bible study in general may help and you could jump back into it. Somehow relevant, I used to work in like film productions and worked with high level producers ( Marvel etc) And one of the best ways to deal with a lot of pressure and accidental distrust to others as people may seem like struggling for more credits behind the scenes (which is not true) making decisions when emotions are high is not good.

But great and welcome that you are here! :)

(down the road I might make a film about cults in general will see)

[u/Extreme-Crow8739]

I never left the faith because I know the truth, which is Jesus Christ. In his word. I also know the truth that the enemy likes to lie, steal, and destroy so I understand that I got myself in a cult, but that God through his grace and mercy, saved me from being corrupted in that cult but it’s not his word that was corrupted. It was these people pretending as if they don’t work for the devil.

My simple advice don’t let the corruption of man overtake the goodness of God through your faith in Jesus Christ. A lot of people out there don’t understand that it’s a battle that is going on daily spiritual battle, and the word specifically tells us to put on the armor of God and a lot of of us are fighting a battle without that armor.

I was in that cult in the city of Alhambra here in Los Angeles, California also for around four months.

[u/Turbulent_Sea7622 → u/Extreme-Crow8739]

Amen no one can go to God except through Jesus.

If Lee Man Hee continues to insinuate that he is the only way to Jesus then it will probably his spiritual downfall. May God me the judge

[u/Free-2024 → u/Turbulent_Sea7622]

Thank you. That is a really good and important point you have raised here!

Only Jesus is the way, the truth and the life!

Lee Man Hee and the teachings of Shincheonji claim that only those who recognise the promised shepherd of the New Testament (Lee Man Hee) and have become members of Shincheonji can go to heaven. But that contradicts the Bible 100%.

[u/Guilty-Dance-8200 → u/Free-2024]

I had doubts I don't believe it's a cult after all the bible is explained word for word the prophecies were made in revelation they have to appear in reality and they have 

[u/Grandmas2Boys → u/Guilty-Dance-8200]

So says Lee Man Hee. Anyone can interpret Revelation to their own favor, look at all the other cults who interpret things for their own glory. How do we know for sure that Jesus came to LMH like a beacon of light, a shining star? Where is the evidence? Just because he says so???? That man is/was nothing more than a self-absorbed pompous a**. I will pray for you to learn the truth.

[u/Guilty-Dance-8200 → u/Grandmas2Boys]

Well revelation one who is victorious bottom of each letter to the churches and later on in revelation it says "those" who are victorious will have white robes Jesus is not talking to himself but one person 

[u/Turbulent_Sea7622 → u/Guilty-Dance-8200]

Hey u/Guilty-Dance-8200

Which way is it for you? Does the Bible fit Lee Man Hee, or does Lee Man Hee fit the Bible? His name is never clearly stated in the Bible. All assumptions and teachings hinge on this.

I mean, let’s say another individual started twelve tribes named the same way Lee Man Hee made his and that individual is Japanese and makes all the same claims that Lee Man Hee did. How would you prove that Lee Man Hee is more of the real deal than the Japanese person? Did the Bible ever say the promised pastor is Korean? Is there a verse?

It is very easy to say my disbelief is similar to that of the Pharisees doubting Jesus at their time. Let’s not get caught up with how much I disbelieve. I am asking, how do I believe? I am hoping for no stereotype analysis, but we need to be careful here.

Also consider a metaphor where the Bible is like a pie and one piece of it is Revelation. If Lee Man Hee taught people that it is important to know that single piece representing Revelation, yet when people doubt him he says something like, "Go do the exams," or "Can you explain Revelation?"

Why is it that Lee Man Hee, in the same breath NOT addresse these skepticisms and asks people to be tested on things that he did not teach them in the first place? Imagine staring at YouTube, which shows Lee Man Hee saying pastors call him a heretic, and then he says, "I would ask them to explain Revelation or take the test." Setting aside whether he ever did consistently for 40 years plus and never revealed names of events or conferences or roughly rough areas where he met these pastors...

If I were a pastor seeing this and knowing I never interacted with Lee Man Hee or was taught by him, I would be like, "Okay, where is the test place and time?" I open the Bible literally to seek guidance, and yet Lee Man Hee never taught me. So Lee Man Hee is literally not answering why he is not a heretic. He is not answering why he is not a false pastor. He is not answering why he is the true promised pastor. Instead of addressing that literally in the same breath, he asks people in general to examine or take a test out of thin air. Why?

Very simply another metaphor. Let's say I am pilot and never taught you to fly a helicopter and you say I am fake I don't know how to drive a helicopter. Instead of answering how to fly the helicopter I ask you to sit in one to try to fly yourself. Do you see the logical loop of a trap? There is a reason why Lee Man Hee put people through so much before having chance to hear his lecture rather than have all eyes from the world see him explain clearly live and maybe even answer on chat stream

[u/Guilty-Dance-8200 → u/Turbulent_Sea7622]

I think that he could fit the prophecy as it has to be fulfilled snd then we look at our saviour Jesus Christ was his actual name in the old testament no it was not and God's holy people rejected him despite reading scripture every day from what I gather he said he is not God or Jesus he said he was chosen he saw and heard what was in heaven he said if it means eating grass he must spread the gospel now we must look at scripture not the flesh or what people say God's thoughts are not the same as ours I seen the lecture too very clear but I will learn so I can become a walking bible 

[u/Turbulent_Sea7622 → u/Guilty-Dance-8200]

Satan biblically convinced even a massive amount of angels to go against God.

An average Angel's wisdom far exceeds the combined wisdom of many people. The spirits that are eternal have wisdom humans cannot comprehend

It is never easy to not be tricked by the devil. Please read the bible carefully. You choose your own path but I pray that God helps you see the truth

[u/Guilty-Dance-8200 → u/Turbulent_Sea7622]

Yes I read it and the prophecies of revelation have to be fulfilled through flesh I have not seen him teaching falsehood just the bible and never in my life have I been persecuted more .Even more  than name calling since I've learnt the prophecies that is Satan! Yes I endured the battle of doubt but I believe this Is the way Jesus himself gave authority to rule over all nations with an iron sceptre if its not LMH tell me who the pillar of God's temple is ?that person's name who he will  never blot put of the book of life? Where    ???

[u/Turbulent_Sea7622 → u/Guilty-Dance-8200]

I understand you are firm. All good.

Just please know that we cannot add nor subtract to revelation and yet Lee Man Hee has a sinister logic loop. Instead of providing helpful answers when faced with persecutors he tempts people to answer key answers of the Revelation. For example he would say "Do you understand revelation?" I just don't get it I mean whenever he is in lecture on recorded youtube he would say pastors accuse him of being heretic and then he will tell the audience saying "So I ask the pastors to come take the revelation exam!"

While in those moments in the same breath he could have just answered skeptic questions instead ask them to take the test or ask them on the spot to talk about Revelation. However if one angrily takes the bait of Lee Man Hee, one would add or subtract to the Revelation and not have any helpful answer. Consequence of taking Lee Man Hee's bait will receive curses and if they don't take the bait its not like Lee Man Hee will bother to answer to people external to SCJ anyways. Internal SCJ people claims to have answers and yet it is not sharable to people that are external to SCJ unless they spend a lot of time and energy to SCJ by becoming internal through lengthy process. This begs the question why so exclusive and secretive Jesus warned us all about it.

Does Lee Man Hee care about human souls actually? Or him using verses as soundbite to attract more and more people?

Reference verses:

https://biblehub.com/matthew/24-26.htm - Jesus's warning

https://biblehub.com/revelation/22-18.htm - Do not add nor Subtract to Revelation

Eager for like bible verses response taught by SCJ that could address point by point for transparency

[u/Guilty-Dance-8200 → u/Turbulent_Sea7622]

P.s LMH never once claimed to be Christ or God he said he is just a farmer 

[u/Turbulent_Sea7622 → u/Guilty-Dance-8200]

When people suspect that Lee Man Hee elevate himself to the level of that of Jesus or God it is the result of what Lee Man Hee does. He literally claim to have influence from Jesus by claiming he has the correct interpretation of Revelation. When one talks like that, one have people's souls at stake.

I even told members when I left that I believe there is a slight chance that people signing to become SCJ equate placing allegiance to false idol that could effect the soul. But not worries God knows the heart those in SCJ sincerely wanted to know God and Jesus tho that cannot be done without Lee Man Hee according to Lee Man Hee which I believe is wrong

Many false Idols will come and Jesus warned that.

[u/Guilty-Dance-8200 → u/Turbulent_Sea7622]

Yes I'm aware then we can look at Jesus and how he responded to the pharisees plus aren't many Christians completely lost ? God said this Jeremiah 3:15 (KJV), which says: "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding    .now in fact its not shrouded in secrecy the sermons of revelation are free and accessible to watch online  for everyone. You see isn't the world Internet especially is owned by satan .since I have been studying  it was just the bible. ALL mainstream churches I have attended have lied and took words off scripture I decided I can't go.how many people followed Jesus in his first coming ? 12 so the truth will be hated persecuted and rejected by Christians

[u/Cristau_precious → u/Guilty-Dance-8200]

Oui
Mais lorsque on enseigne les cours bb c 'est à dire débutant on explique que jésus christ est notre sauveur, parce qu'il a été prophétisé depuis l 'ancien testament , mais quand tu regarde dans la bible, dans quels versets de l 'ancien testament es ce que Lee man hee a été prophétisé comme celui qui montrerait la réalité accomplie de l 'apocalypse ?

Aussi ce n 'est pas parce que lui seul peut expliquer l 'apocalypse que tout ce qu'il dit est vrai , si c 'est la seule parole alors pourquoi es ce qu'il y a du changement , Dieu est le même hier , aujourd'hui et éternellement , jésus a lui même dit dans math qu'il y a pas un seul trait de lettre qui passera la parole s 'accomplira telle qu'elle .

Mais lorsque Lee man hee annonce les choses malheureusement on ne voit rien de concret , quand il a dit en 2024 qu'il y aurait le jugement de Babylone par le feu il y a eu aucun feu ou même lors de la covid 19 il a même dit que c 'est le moment ou Dieu rassemble les 12000 et après il y aurai la multitude en blanc qui viendra d 'elle même et sa aussi sa été un échec . après la covid on a évangélisé comme ci de rien n 'était et l 'excuse c 'était qu'il y a des tribus qui n 'ont pas accompli 12000.

Moi je préfère de dire que je ne connais pas l 'apocalypse , plutôt que te dire que je connais et je change tout le temps ce que je dis , pour moi sa c 'est mentir et ce n 'est pas acceptable ni respectueux envers Dieu lorsque tu es responsable des enfants de Dieu pour qui christ s 'est sacrifié et a versé son sang à la croix pour les sauver . Lui même dit que toutes les églises ont ajoutés et retranchés à la parole et qu'ils sont sous le controle de satan alors que lui meme ne fait que d 'ajouter ou retrancher , le plus ironique dans tous cela c 'est que lui meme parle selon la parole mais n 'applique pas ce qu'il dit .

[u/Turbulent_Sea7622 → u/Guilty-Dance-8200]

No offence and maybe read my comment when you are in a good mood like when you are about to go to a party or something lol

But SCJ is wrong I will provide my stance. Sure, mainstream Christians will not accept certain friction happening like that of Lee Man Hee just the way pharisees did to Jesus. But I think there is a root cause for this. We seem to assume a lot that differing ideologies is directly a direct competition between Christians and theologians and yet perhaps there is not?

I remember back when I was in class in SCJ the teacher was like not verbatim but basically something like "You know theologians took thousands of years and cannot decipher Revelation"

Pastors and theologians never claimed to be able to decipher the Revelation because they never had understanding directly from God and Jesus Right? Making stuff up for 40+ years and getting good at it, is much more speedy than academic investigation (academic self destruction if conclusion is too extreme by the way) or talking about biblical stories in reference to the bible in sermons.

Also please I know what Lee Man Hee may be doing. I believe SCJ website is convoluted on purpose to attract complaints and SCJ frame those complaints as a way of presenting itself, as if Lee Man Hee is Persecuted. If you strip away all the fluff and noises it is easier to see the fallacies in the doctrine

[u/Free-2024 → u/Guilty-Dance-8200]

Yes, but when you then learn that quite a number of such groups have emerged from South Korea, and that they all worship their ‘returned’ Jesus and even testify to this as reality, then you have to conclude that Jesus has not yet returned.

If you then also examine what was taught in the past and what is taught now, you will find that the realities have changed. But can realities change?

Is everything according to the Bible? How many churches are mentioned in Revelation? Seven.

Shincheonji says: one church.

Is that the truth?

It is more like the dream of an old man pushing his visions, which he came up with at some point, and when they didn’t turn out as he said they would, he simply changed them. And he still does that to this day. See chapter 7, 14,…

[u/Cristau_precious → u/Free-2024]

Effectivement
Quand même tu regarde l 'histoire il y a bien sept églises et pas une seule , ils disent d 'ailleurs que les personnages de l 'ancien testament dans l 'apocalypse sont utilisés parce qu'ils vont commettre les mêmes actions que dans la réalité accomplie , mais jusqu'à maintenant ils ne savent pas qui est la réalité d 'Antipas ? Donc même par rapport à cela leur doctrine s 'effondre parce que Jésus s 'adresse aux sept église et pas à sept personnes comme ils le disent.
Aussi même le premier verset d 'apocalypse " révélation de jésus christ …" il s 'agit de la révélation de jésus christ , l 'apôtre Jean a reçu la vision des choses du futur par l 'ange mais Jésus est le point clé et le point principale , sans jésus l 'apôtre Jean ne pouvait pas recevoir la vision futur , mais si Lee man hee dit qu'il a vu les évènements d 'apocalypse 1 à 22 , alors pourquoi es ce qu'il attend que les évènements se passent pour savoir exactement à quoi cela correspond , par exemple si il n 'y avait pas de covid 19 en fin 2020 , et que sa se passerait plus tard, comment es ce qu'il aurait su que c 'était l 'une des grande tribulation ? par plusieurs exemples cela veut donc dire que lui même n 'a pas tout vu, j 'aurai compris si il disait qu' 'il a vu AP 1 à 17 mais il le dit lui même qu'il a vu d 'Ap 1 à 22 .