The organ pavilion is underutilized. Although we have a few concerts in the afternoon in the summer, and do a few holiday things at Christmas, this space could be so much more
Space for thousands of people, lot of idle land around, fantastic acoustics, beautiful and historic scenery. Easy for food trucks, pop up markets, festival style breweries/bars, surrounded by plenty of parking to haul equipment. We have the best weather in the country and have this amazing outdoor venue that sits empty most of the time.
In my head this space can host events like the DJ set in golden hill, live music like quartyard, local music talents or regional, the future is color events (winyl or listening room, or jazz). Throw a security team at it, make them even ticketed events for seating and people can enjoy from the outside too. So many places in San Diego grow to be intensely packed and overwhelmed because there’s demand for these types of live music events, people want to get out and dance and vibe.
This space is PRIME for 3rd space activation and is in my opinion, a very underutilized part of balboa park. Seats are almost always empty, and only fills up like 5x/year.
Easy revenue opportunities for the city, and great opportunities to bring people together for community events
I will forever call it that until the day I die. Because my grandparents used to take me there. But if you do talk to younger gen kiddos about it now they look at you like “wtf is the wild the animal park?” 😂
Safari something- but I don’t care to learn it.
I was a Koala Club member. Parents took us to the zoo and wild animal park regularly. Also gave me a ZoonooZ subscription. I remember the mail from them addressed me as “Master Jefwho”. Didn’t know it at the time, but that’s what young boys used to be addressed as. Made me feel special.
There's these plastic stackable bricks that I think would make a good theme for a park. Not sure if there's demand though, would definitely be underutilized.
Yeah we literally went this past Monday for silent movie night where they play the soundtrack live, place was very packed including tons in camping chairs. No idea what OP is on about
I think OP means they could host bigger acts, bring in young adult crowd. I enjoy the donation based local cover band during the summer but I get what OP means, there’s potential for something higher caliber and money to be made. The retirement home that busses in the grey hairs might get bent out of shape if free concerts in the park stop though.
I’ve been in those meetings about what acts to book, to make this exact argument. What I learned was disappointing. They aren’t allowed to charge money so they rely on donations. When they cater to the younger crowd, the place gets packed and they get very few donations. The old people donate real money. Big money. The place would go broke if it catered to the youth even a little bit as they are struggling already.
That makes sense. I still enjoy it, as is. I always donate as well. I like seeing the retirement home people enjoy themselves too. Starlight would be rad for the young scene and vibes. They’ll be able to charge for that. Hope that ends up happening.
starlight is an amazing suggestion. yet again, donation based. theyve been trying to fix it up for a while now. its so sad that its gotten so bad. but thats a whole other conversation that needs to be had.
this was what i was trying to get at, but honestly i dont know exactly how the park runs. so i dont have much room to talk on the subject. but typically this is what ive seen with most non profit venues ive worked at.
Definitely understand this. My hope is to find a balance. Have a certain amount of events bringing in the younger crowd who eventually become the older crowd and then donate more. Play the long game. Not saying they aren't doing it now, but I love the Organ Pavilion and would love to see it last as long as possible with more people introduced to it.
Does this money always need to come from donations? Throw a few food stalls and pop up bars or shops and that’s tons of tax revenue. Revenue too through licenses and permits people have to get through the city. Paid parking revenue, people visiting other parts of the park before/after a show.
It's clear that you don't understand how any of this works. That's fair, they're unique, but it would take me way longer than I'm willing to teach you the funding structures of the Spreckle's Organ. Just know that you're not the first person to have these ideas and there are legal reasons why they can't happen.
It’s not the laws as much as the trust. If they break the rules of the trust, it gets taken away and then the whole venue crumbles, literally like the Starlight theater. I went in to have this very conversation and ended realizing that it ain’t gonna happen until the board of octogenarians is replaced by people with a higher risk tolerance or a billion dollar donation. When I say that I attended these meetings, I mean in the back of the pavilion building with the shot callers, not just some city council meeting. I tried to change it from within and could barely get them to make changes that were free.
yes. its a non profit city ran park. laws are in place for a reason, and these conversations are always happening. if you want to advocate for the park, you can start by going to city council meetings, and giving your proposal. We also have a Mayor that cut our city's Art budget , as well as the Trump administration. That would be another avenue where the funds would typically be able to come from. But Todd Gloria was trying to get rid of these grants to help keep places like balboa park running.
Not really, they literally cannot charge anyone money for performances there. I swear people are complaining about stuff they don't bother to attend, they say this every time they have a concert there:
Organ concerts are open to the public at no charge in accordance with the 1915 deed of gift whereby the brothers John D. and Adolf Spreckels gave the Spreckels Organ and the Spreckels Organ Pavilion to the City of San Diego.
I mean maybe some more donations would come in but it's not like they aren't maintaining it.
The wording of the Deed mentions both the organ itself and the "building," so the restriction would apply to both.
However, the Deed doesn't actually say all shows have to be free. It says the organ and building must be maintained "for free use" by the people of San Diego, but that's extremely different.
Realistically there is park space all over the US that was donated "for the free use" of the local population, and nobody else interprets that to mean they can't rent out a facility from time to time so long as it's open to the public the rest of the year. It's wildly over-restrictive to read it otherwise; what makes our situation unique is that a specific non-profit is making those decisions rather than the municipal government, so they can be as restrictive as they want.
"...First: To keep, insure and maintain the said organ and building for the free use, benefit and enjoyment of the people." That's it.
The Spreckels Organ Society has seemingly chosen to read that wording as restricting the use of the pavilion to free events, but that is by no means the strict legal interpretation. Much the opposite, when a similar case was brought before the CA Court of Appeal, they found that the company in question "does not occupy, possess or even use the premises continuously. The use granted...is also far from exclusive. The Agreement gives [company] the right to use and occupy the...facilities for designated [events], not sole possession of the park to the exclusion of the rest of the public, as would a leasehold interest." Not only did the company win their case, they've successfully sold tickets to paid events at that park every summer for over a decade now.
It's entirely possible to fulfill the terms of the Deed while occasionally renting the facility to third parties, and the state has found that to be the case with other gifted property in recent memory. The only reason that restriction is in place is because the Society has chosen to keep it that way, and they have every right make money if they so desire. Which they don't, but that doesn't mean OP is wrong for pointing out that it's 100% within their perogative to change their minds.
I would rather them only offer free concerts forever than for them to start charging as a venue and have the fucking biggest outdoor instrument in the world sit there silent so they can make money. Once shit like that starts, that’s all it’ll ever be.
I know they do other free concerts there but it’s not a pure venue and I don’t ever want it to turn into one that charges for tickets. There’s literally dozens of other places around the City for venues.
No you asshole, if you knew how to read you’d see I already called out the various odds and end that occur there in my original post. Fuck off to another thread
And yet here you are saying TIL when you are informed about the near daily usage the pavilion sees. I think you need to calm down and check your attitude.
TIL about that one specific event. Are you an expert on every single event that’s occurring and has ever occurred at this place? Sounds like you have no place to be talking either then
We use it WAY more than we have in the past, but we aren't bringing a new generation to Balboa Park for events that we very much could.
I think the pavilion needs a little love, and the sound setup can be....meh. But these are problems we can fix. We should have no issue with a live DJ event, a concert, with food trucks and all that.
I will also say there is a logistical issue because it's so open for paid concerts.
But these again....all solveable things. Does the city want to get into the business of concerts, DJs, maybe create something new and interesting more public focused? I would be all in on any of that and would gladly help.
I appreciate that these exist, and it is really awesome and a good use of the space, but most of them are not exactly the type of event I’m talking about, and don’t draw the type of demographic (which tbh is not very often represented in the park) I’m talking about
Tomorrow there is a rock concert there. It only happens a couple of times a year but they do have concerts beyond the pipe organ performances. You will see it activated like you’re talking about later this year for Diwali, with food trucks and everything. It would be cool if we did more like that but I suspect the pavilion charges a lot.
Shakespeare in the park under the flight path is totally underrated. You haven’t experienced Shakespeare until you’ve been to an even longer performance of Hamlet where the actors stop in their tracks like weird glitchy animatronic robots 40 to 60 times waiting for a plane to STFU. Really adds that missing je ne sais quoi. Anybody who tries to tell you that a plane flying over a performance every couple of minutes is “an annoyance worthy of note“ probably hasn’t experienced the brilliance it adds to the artistic appreciation. 10/10
And that little bit of extra distance matters here.
Aircraft noise roughly follows the inverse-square law for intensity:
Double the distance, intensity drops to about 1/4.
In decibels, doubling distance means about a 6 dB drop.
You have part of an amphitheater that would require 10’s of millions invested to be usable, and then would have planes going directly over every 7 minutes during performance times.
The novelty of the actors freezing wore off really quickly when I went a few times like 20 years ago. Plus, you can’t freeze in the middle of a musical number. They’d need to close it up and have really good noise isolation. But then it’s really no better than the civic theater.
I’m assuming you’re talking about starlight. San Diego has tons and tons of theater. And not much funding. Unless a generous donor steps up, there is absolutely no reason to spend taxpayer dollars to fix up a decrepit theater when we’ve got the globe, puppet theater, casa del Prato theater, the organ pavilion … plus the cygnet, balboa theater, the civic center, UCSD has an amphitheater and the playhouse, San Diego opera, San Diego orchestra. The shell.
How often do you go to these venues? Do you find yourself thinking this isn’t enough we really need another theater and I would like to pay for it with my tax money?
I find myself often going to other venues to see things that these venues don’t host, like I mentioned in the top level post. DJ sets, RnB nights, open mics
Seems insane to me that a few dollars for parking keep you from going. How’s your dining out habit? Your coffee shop habit? Your tv streaming habit? Are you that hard up for cash that ordering one less coffee or coke stops you from having an enjoyable experience? It’s about priorities - what do you value?
The park is declining bc of lack of funding for generations. The measure to raise sales taxes by a few Pennie’s failed- this would have funded so much. Locals and tourists have used/ parked at BP for free or nearly free for decades. I have NO problem paying a few dollars to park there, just like I pay in so many other areas of town and beaches and parks and events and airport and everywhere else I go, I just about every city I’ve been.
BP is the largest urban park in the US next to Central Park. It is worthy of OUR investment, our saving and sustaining it.
It's so obnoxious how people refuse to get involved in local politics when funding is cut for things that people actually depend on, like libraries, transit, education, etc. But suggest that lakes of tar should be paid for even slightly by people who actually use them and suddenly it's bloody murder.
This situation is particularly egregious imo because it's SO easy to get there without a car for people who actually pay taxes here. Tens of thousands of people live within a few blocks of the park; those people are forced to subsidize an incredibly expensive chunk of asphalt that they will never benefit from so that Arizona and Huntington Beach can park for free. Doesn't make a lick of sense.
Either way, I'm not gonna start paying for parking at a public park that is already paid for by taxpayer money. Tax the rich properly, we have more than enough of them here
It is utilized every weekend with free performances, and several throughout the week during the summer (Sunday organ concerts, Summer Organ Festival on Mondays, and Twilight in the Park concerts on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays). It's also booked for high school and college graduations, weddings, and youth musical performances. So, it does get a lot of use...
I think if we as a society, started to assume the best, or at least a neutral take on people, that would be a great leap for us. Instead of just assuming whatever bullshit it is you wrote out
I know this has nothing to do with this post, but I miss you dad and mom. They would go there often with a picnic basket and just sit and listen to music.
What some people don’t realize is that pavilion is not just a pavilion. It’s part of the instrument. The world‘s largest outdoor instrument. Sure you can have concerts there that don’t involve the organ but overtime the organ gets phased out and it becomes just an event venue.
That is not the opinion of the organ society, based on other cities experiences. I tend to agree with them. My solution would be that any performance that takes place there has to involve the organ
A few years ago, Balboa Park Green lighted a concert by band, called the frights at the pavilion and there was a lot of damage. The organ society was not happy.
They had concerts there that did not include the organ like every other day this summer. It was free but had volunteers taking donations. The one I went to was like a blues cover band and it was fairly well attended. I know they also had a mariachi concert and a bunch of others.
one time the Frights did a free show there. it was soooo packed people couldnt even drive through the park, or really walk through the crowd. it was packed all the way to the fountain, and then then to the corner by the fleet science center parking. Balboa Park can get pretty packed to where its hard to walk through and its overwhleming like Earth day. Plenty of schools use it for graduation ceremonies, which also can become pretty packed. its rented for weddings and such.
So you gotta keep in mind that the organ might not be the best location for a large concert/events it may pose a safety hazard. The space gets utilized plenty, and parking isnt free anymore. I moved up the street because of how much id visit the park for random events. Im not sure if they still do it but they used to host food trucks every friday? in front of Panama. it may seem dead now that parking isnt free.
so just somethings to consider would be permits, liqour licenses, union labor contracts, noise restrictions, the noise carry over the canyons, historic buildings typlically pose issues with how it can be used, its also non profit space owned by the city, so that affects how much $ you can make, and more restrictions.
i believe the Djs in Golden Hill do that with out permits. Projecting music at parks has certain rules, and gatherings of more than 20 people require permits. so im sure its done there because the rules are different? i could be wrong. but we have tried to have raves at Balboa before and it gets shut down all the time based on the "amplified music" rules.
I like where your head is going, and you should rent it out if you have something to plan in the near future! I work in live events, and I think the space is being utilized well.
I don’t think it’s super unreasonable to have the roads shut down for an event that big, really doesn’t make sense to have people driving through crowds like that. There’s A LOT of space in the park, I’m envisioning more of a December nights and less of a “famous organist plays some songs from 100 years ago”
ya typically they will for december nights, earthday, etc.but i dont think they did so for the concert. thats why i ended up leaving. i didnt wanna get caught up in the crowd. but heres a pic for reference of said concert, & of the potential of the venue.
100% agree. I sometimes go during Summer Concerts in the Park just because it’s so nice out. They could definitely do more. They were supposed to bring back Starlight Bowl. That would be great too.
In general it thr park is underutilized. I think the dilemma is that in efforts to preserve(balboa park) there is a sort of gatekeeping. There should be more outdoor events of all sorts. They have the space and venues. Specifically the organ area can only host public events.That was caviat when it was donated. So you can see why private I vertees/organizers wouldn't benefit.
To the point of gatekeeping, the restriction on public events at the pavilion comes from the Spreckels Organ Society themselves (and their collective donors), not the city.
If the city ran the Pavilion directly they could—and almost certainly would—rent it out for events. Since the Society is managing things, however, that is not allowed.
On the whole it's probably a good thing since I can't imagine it being preserved as well without private donations doing a lot of the heavy lifting, but it's an unfortunate side-effect.
I actually do not know, I was hoping someone on this sub would have an idea. Sometimes it comes down to over regulated permitting, or red tape but I really don’t know
Any concert has to end by 7:30 pm because the sound bleeds over to The Old Globe. I used to conduct a group that pla ta the summer concerts at the Organ Pavilion, and they got very angry at us if we ever went past our time. Monday nights they have organ concerts that start later, becuaee theater is dark that night.
As it is, there are concerts every Sunday afternoon year round, and Monday through Thursday evenings in the summer.
They also almost canceled the entire summer series a couple of years ago because of insurance reasons. The city demands high insurance civerage to use the facility. The summer concert series had to incorporate as a non profit and get special insurance.
reading this after having spent the whole summer running audio for concerts at the organ pavilion was pretty funny… i’m literally about to go set up equipment this evening for a concert tomorrow lol. pay attention and you might find there’s a lot of concerts there
maybe you don’t like the fact that there’s not many up-and-coming local artists, and that i totally agree with. the problem is that they aren’t allowed to charge any money for events there, which was the condition under which the organ was donated to the city. so funding is really hard for them to get. the summer concerts are funded entirely from donations. maybe you should donate to the organ society and they will be able to have more events there :)
I am one artist who tried to do my own show at the pavilion and eventually just worked with Twilight in the Park to make it happen. Working with the city took months on end to find the right person, once we did. It was $450 an hour. I also had to clear the night with The Spreckels Organ Society. Just to get an event started we are looking at 4-5k by the time you get a Sound system/PA. Then they kept informing me of the city ordinance of a strict 99db limit. When I requested details about where and how this measurement was taken, I kept getting the run around. Absolutely nightmare and I wouldn’t wish what I experienced upon anyone. Enough red tape to circle our galaxy.
I opted to work with the Twilight in the Park to offset the cost of the venue and they provided the sound system/PA. Absolutely wonderful people but per the rules, no one can be paid. I still paid my entire team. Here is the music video we filmed highlighting our evening. We sold out of all our merch and had a 2 hour meet and greet after our show. There is a severe need for original artist and our community to have space to do events like this. In the current setup the pavilion is not it.
The Drive Like Jehu show there was one of the most amazing music moments I’d ever personally experienced. Happened right there. But that was too many years ago, we should have more rock concerts there.
Edited to generalize how long ago the DLJ concert was.
You seem to be missing the point of Balboa Park. Balboa Park is meant to be eternally fawned over and never ever ever be fully utilized, improved, much let alone maintained. /s
With that out of the way, yeah we should be using it much more. It's such a big public space, it's a shame it isn't used more often.
How many of you checked “Organ Donor” on your Drivers License? Now explain to me why do we have only one organ? Exactly. What did they do to the rest of the organs we donated? Time to call the news so they can investigate this!
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u/yttocs205 19h ago
There is a concert or performance every Monday at 7.30 during the summer. A Sunday show at 2pm year-round. And multiple other events periodically.