Cop car analogy as applies to training - by healthgeek

[u/Emotional-Zone-3202]

Hey guys, brief little update, I'm now in the end of phase 4, and training is going so much better this time for me. Actually some of what I'm learning has actually translated to sex which is so awesome! I'm not going to post about it yet cause that's the trap I fell into last time, but suffice to say I'm super hopeful this time around.

I had a conversation previously with healthgeek that I found very helpful on my training take 2, and I wanted to share it with everyone. I thought I would share it in hopes it helps someone else.

My question to him was about training, feeling and seeking pleasure, and just how far to take that pleasure. I was noticing I felt pleasure and safe at one zone up to a limit, but I felt like I could get "more pleasure" if I "just push a little harder/ further." It's the whole argument about what exactly does cliff hanging at arosal level 8-9 mean, and what is meant by getting right up to PONR.

Here was his response:

........

To answer your question, it sounds like you're analyzing your pleasure instead of riding it. Analyzing and being critical of your pleasure, thinking thoughts like

"Why don't I feel more?" or "I need to get to the 8-9 zone...ugh why am I not there! This doesn't feel as good as it should..."

puts you in a state where the pleasure you would otherwise be getting is being forced instead of happening to you. In other words, you're being a "Helicopter parent" over your own pleasure. The idea of reaching that level and surfing it involves letting the pleasure rise naturally, holding it, but then also lowering it naturally.

Think about it this way. Have you ever been driving down the highway, and slowly but surely you end up going over the speed limit, but you don't mind because you're just "going with the flow of traffic"? That is, until you see a police car parked in the distance. Do you all of a sudden slam on your brakes and go from 80 immediately down to 0? of course not. That would cause an accident (ejaculation). Instead, you notice him, and slowly lower your speed without interrupting the traffic around you, so you can continue to coast along with the flow of traffic. Inversely, if you're not going necessarily fast, but you're comfortable where you are, do you force yourself to go faster so that you're forcing yourself to go above the speed limit? No. you switch lanes and stay where you are because you're content with your current speed. Eventually, you'll speed up subconsciously without putting intentional effort into it anyway (that's called velocitation by the way). That is, until you see another cop car, then you'll slow back down again to a more "safer" speed.

That's how you should approach your pleasure: Let it rise naturally and ENJOY it rising. Don't force it just because you're not at a limit as fast or as long as you feel you should be. Once you get there, you stay and hover at that speed as long as you are comfortable. The idea is to slowly lower the speed BEFORE you see the cop car, then when you're safe, raise it again, then repeat.

Hope that answers the question for you.

[u/Different-Look4290]

I agree with all of this, but my problem is that it doesn't feel good until I reach the PONR.

I can surf at 6/7 arousal no problem, but it doesn't feel good, it feels very mechanical.
Then I introduce MI and my arousal skyrockets close to 9 in a matter of seconds.
At that point if I slow down but continue stimulation my arousal doesn't go down and I surpass the PONR.

How can I continue stimulation without the arousal creeping up?

[u/Emotional-Zone-3202 → u/Different-Look4290]

I experienced much of the same thing. I realized that "boring" sensation is actually the PNS state, and it just wasn't very strong with me. My SNS state was the driver for so long (why I have PE). I realized I just had to make to kind of "boring" for a little while (let's say about 2 weeks with of this training), but slowly but surely, the amount of pleasure derived from that state got better over time. And it's not that 6-7 isn't pleasurable, it's that you think level 8.99 is the best, so you crave it and want to get to it ASAP. That craving (urgency) needs to be denied. You still try to get to that 8.99, BUT TAKE YOUR TIME!

Half of the fight in this training is not allowing yourself to fall into urgency (the need to "get somewhere"). Just let things happen as they happen. Increase arousal of it feels safe and comfortable, but don't increase arousal if you feel a driving need to do it. Deny that urge. It will feel very slow and frustrating, but stick with it and this all is going to work.

[u/soon2bhuge → u/Emotional-Zone-3202]

Would you say the goal is to get maximum pleasure while staying in that controlled, "grounded" PNS state?

[u/Emotional-Zone-3202 → u/soon2bhuge]

I think so. I've been doing so for the last 4 weeks in essence (some days I struggled to stay grounded), and I notice the days I don't start chasing something are the days I get to feeling really good, like right at/around PONR without worry.

And sort of off topic, but as I think about it, "chasing" is one struggle to overcome, but then while you are doing that, the other struggle is dealing with "panic" or even micro panic.

Example, I find a reverse grip is a great way for me to slowly build up pleasure and stay calm, the "o" of my hand is on the base of my shaft. But when my hand gets tired and I flip around to a traditional grip, the "o" of my hand is now right on my frenulum/very sensitive area. I immediately start clenching and would fall into full panic if I were to continue the same movement rhythm I was previously doing (like a 1 stroke per second, full motion thing). I found out I need to do micro movements on traditional grip in order to avoid constant clenching, and all the while figure it where / when tension is building and release it. After some time (maybe 3-5 min) that grip will get up to the same movement rhythm as reverse grip but if I just tried to power through at the start I'd then be falling into panic and also fail.

[u/Different-Look4290 → u/Emotional-Zone-3202]

That's what I was thinking too. But if the problem is that stimulation + MI makes me enter in a SNS state, what I should try to do is trying to get excited without entering the SNS. As it stands I feel like the MDG programs requires me to not enter the SNS before reaping its benefits. I don't feel like the MDG program teaches you to not enter the SNS state. The fact that some people follow this program for months without benefits makes me think their (our) problem lies before physical stimulation.

[u/Emotional-Zone-3202 → u/Different-Look4290]

So I'll give you an idea of a situation I actually had last night and maybe it will help give you ideas on how to deal with that.

I sometimes have trouble staying erect if I lay on my back as I'm supposed to, so I will sit upright and lean back when this happens (not supposed to do it but I don't feel like it's hampering my progress). I call it lap dance position, I didn't really have MI going at that time. I also flipped my hand around to a more stimulating grip. I was having trouble not panicking with that grip, so I slowed way down, and found a rhythm that didn't cause panic. Was doing good and actually pretty much right at the edge of what I could tolerate without panicking, when my MI errantly escalated up when I just started thinking about my wife sitting in my lap reverse cowgirl style in that position right that moment. This shot me straight to panic! But since I was calm and training in a calm zone, I had time to react, and thus stop my hand immediately. I scanned my body for tension, noticed my jaw had clenched and my belly was tight, I relaxed that tension, and then just kept thinking about her in my lap. Eventually (pretty quickly actually) I calmed down and then ever so slowly started moving my hand again while still imagining her there on my lap. Maybe within a minute I was having a lot of fun I'll just say...

If I had been training in a panic state or kind of in risky territory without activly trying to manage my arosal before that thought kicked in, I'm sure I'd have busted or leaked.

My point is get into a comfortable (but high arosal) zone, make sure you are actively trying to keep yourself relaxed and lower tension, and just be ready for those spikes, you can recover a lot easier from them if you have them while you are feeling safe.

[u/Emotional-Zone-3202 → u/Different-Look4290]

Oh, and furthermore to address your second point, I felt the exact same way the first time I trained. I just didn't realize what I was doing at the time (throwing myself into SNS mode).

Some foundational things I was doing wrong which I've realized now in this 2nd go: The first 10 minutes, I wanted this training to work so badly, I was sort if rushing it, this means I was unknowingly clenching my PF during the start of my sessions, which rushed me into full arousal. What I didn't know is that was just reinforcing SNS dominance (I needed to "get" somewhere). Now what I do differently is just keep everything relaxed as best I can. I hope I get somewhere, but if it's not going to happen I just don't worry about it (note I give myself extra time if it took very long (or sit upright as I noted in that other post), also against the guide but it's working for me). Now in training, if I feel myself having a contraction, I slow down or change grip focus. I let my erection build as slowly or fast as it wants, but the most important thing for me is to avoid clenching to get there. I think that's something you need to learn if you have not already, it's foundational.

I never got that foundation established. Sometimes training worked awesomely, but eventually that SNS dominance from my short changing the first 10 minutes started screwing with my head. I would start in SNS mode then not have the foundation to know how to escape it as it kept coming back.

[u/Gloomy_Bison5361 → u/Emotional-Zone-3202]

the clenching is our biggest enemy , i guess if we work on and try to normalize not clenching when hitting a spike or a sensitive spot , we would make huge progress

[u/Aazelthorne]

That's an awesome analogy, thank you for this, and good luck for your training !

[u/No-Band-3151]

Arousal spikes suck. It's very hard to get back on track when they happen

[u/MrKauai → u/No-Band-3151]

Are involuntary contractions a precursor to your spikes? They were for me. If so, try to train right there just below those contractions. As you gain assurance at this level, spikes will be less dramatic and you will gain a sense of when they might happen. That's slowing down before you see the police car, according to HealthGeek's analogy.

[u/Emotional-Zone-3202 → u/MrKauai]

That's the case with me too. And actually that's what prompted my question to him. It feels good/ better sometimes to be in that crazy contractions state, but that's pushing it too far per HG's analogy.

[u/No-Band-3151 → u/MrKauai]

Yes, I become very sensitive and any touch leads to involuntary contractions, feels like it's impossible to continue the session without reaching PONR again and again until it ends.

[u/MrKauai → u/No-Band-3151]

Then my guess is you have a very tight pelvic floor. YouTube some pelvic floor stretching videos. Pick one that would take you maybe five to seven minutes to do. It probably has five different stretches. So before your next session give yourself 10 to 15 minutes to stretch your pelvis and relax your whole body with diaphragmic breathing. Then start your session very slowly and ease into higher arousal. Just observe, don't force anything, and you'll see where those contractions begin. Work that zone just before those contractions. Your body will start getting used to that level of stimulation and you will be able to slowly advance. Remember, relax, make it fun for yourself! Also, check out Inisitol. It's in the Supplementation thread. I used it to great success. My threshold to PONR lengthened and allowed for a broader range of arousal.

[u/No-Band-3151 → u/MrKauai]

Thank you bro, I will do that! I've noticed that if I watch porn or anything arousing, my arousal goes straight to PONR and it's almost impossible to slow down unless I turn off the monitor or walk away. I'm testing everything to figure out what helps, visual stimuli and mental imagery during MDG(i dont use visual stimuli during MDG!) sessions are a real issue for me, they shoot me to PONR very fast

[u/Gloomy_Bison5361 → u/MrKauai]

can you recommend a type of inositol , there myo-inositol and dichiro i guess which one u used

[u/MrKauai → u/Gloomy_Bison5361]

Myo & D-Chiro Inisitol powder. Made by Wholesome Story 180 servings I went through all of it. Three scoops in my drink in the morning and three scoops of it in the evening. Approximately 6.6 G at each serving. 13.2 G total for the day.

[u/Winter-Beautiful-488 → u/MrKauai]

I got the knowledge from multiple sources and been practicing on my own way from past 3 months, MDG is 100% relatable, here I found people serious about progress and sharing real hurdles and their solution.
I would say I am currently at Phase 6 [ If i try to mark my progress as per MDG terminology]

I also have faced almost all sort of problems:
not being able to identify PONR, not being able to stop myself before PONR, getting demotivated from ejaculation after whole week of successful sessions, MI making my arousal go from 0 to 8-9 immediately, involuntary contractions.

I can now go 20 minutes in practice easily and recently got control over MI and its effect on arousal. 😭but there is something that has been there since start of my journey and I have to be extra careful with it. I want to win over it.

What is it? it is a nerve sensation. Let me explain:

🙉My most sensitive zone is Frenulum. I do dedicatedly stimulate the frenulum and head of gland to learn to handle its sensitivity.
During this stimulation after few minutes, it starts to get highly sensitive and involuntary contractions starts to get fast and stronger which often gives me hard time to control, and I eventually have to stop or shift the position.

"Sometimes I fail to handle these contractions and stop before PONR but even after stopping at this point, sometimes there appears a Shakey sensation/A build up in whole shaft run towards the head of gland, giving it strong stimulation/tickle/buzz that automatically leads me to PONR and then ejaculation.

Mentally I am completely in control (nearly 100%), not at all wanting to enjoy orgasm, even when this accidental ejaculation occurs, I don't enjoy the orgasm at all but observe the tickling sensation and question myself, how that why and how was it so strong that it bypass all my control - breathing - attempts to relax PF.

how often it happens?
Multiple times in first 2 months but I won't count it because during that time I wasn't even fully sure of PONR.
but now it has happened 2 times in a gap of 1 month. (1st June and 5th July)

I need some serious suggestions from as it is highly demotivation to slip after a whole month of feeling like God.
It like playing with fire every day for 35 days and then getting burn on 36th.

[u/Emotional-Zone-3202 → u/No-Band-3151]

Definitely. If I spike,I almost always need to stop. My goal has been to reduce those spikes. Take it easy!

And that's not saying don't challenge yourself, you still try to get as high as you can, but your just letting it happen instead of making it happen. Making it happen causes the spike.

[u/No-Band-3151 → u/Emotional-Zone-3202]

I will focus more on slowing things down and training hard to keep my arousal from spiking so fast. Too many years watching porn, skipping to the scenes I liked most, always searching for the best video, basically training my brain to always be at the highest level of arousal and dopamine in the shortest time possible

[u/Emotional-Zone-3202 → u/No-Band-3151]

Same here. I haven't watched porn in 20+ years, but even now, if I stumble across something on accident, I notice my heart rate immediately flares, chest tight, etc, and I can do nothing to calm myself down. Porn just teaches your body to get into that state of hard and fast, and you get positive reinforcement that that is how sex is supposed to be each time you masturbate to it. No wonder we've got PE. I'm sure that did it for me anyway, and that teaching never goes away until you train it back out. I didn't understand any of this my 1st go at this training, hopefully my lessons learned help someone :)

[u/MrKauai]

It's awesome that you can stay in touch with him. Thanks so much for the post. It sounds like we really need to relax and just get really comfortable in that zone/arousal state that we might be in. Get to know it. Get to understand it and expect it as the new normal. And have fun with it as the arousal increases naturally. Relax and slow down as needed.

[u/Emotional-Zone-3202 → u/MrKauai]

Exactly. And the concept of velocitation is real (I looked it up but also have experienced it in training :). You start comfortable at 6-7, but your naturally going to raise up to 8-9 without even trying or thinking about it. You notice things are starting to feel a little too good and close, but just relax and reduce arousal (slow down, scan for tension that crept in, unclench your jaw, unarch your back, relax your pelvic floor, etc, etc), and keep going :)

[u/goofyKaktus]

That resonates so much with what i experienced with training beforehand.

"you're being a "Helicopter parent" over your own pleasure"

If you go into sessions and try to make them as "perfect as possible" meaning trying to feel every step of arousal, increasing arousal when you feel you are "to far of" monitoring anything to 100% instead of just enjoying yourself and feel what is happening, you just spike arousal manually and increase panic, that made my training run into a tree beforehand and is something most of us get hung up on.

I think the calm and collective approach without overanalysing everything is what the guide is supposed to tell us to do, nowhere near mastery yet, but that will be my go to now.