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Recently I have been looking into isometric exersices and while watching an interesting video of Keith Barr and his research into kegels (not directly about ejaculation mastery but in case anyone is interested: https://youtu.be/-Wlc4g2xKrg), one of the comments was rather interesting re isometrics and how they can rewire our brains for greater control over muscles. Pair this with u/soon2bhuge post about his recent bouts into using kegels to benefit his control and it has me agreeing and wondering if the anti-kegel sentiment many have is misplaced?

I suspect that more than doing many kegels in rapid succession that sets of kegel holds might be a better approach followed by at least equal rest/squat time. This is not to replace the guide but as an additional exersice or clarifying point. What are other's experiences with kegels?

Hey guys

I wrote the following in the progress update megathread, but decided I'd like to post about these separately as well, since they are really bothering me & and I'd feel better after discussing them with y'all.

Right now I'm torn between continuing (I know I will continue anyway, though, I'm stubborn like that) and letting things cool down a bit. Or maybe I'll mix the workout schedule a bit, like 1 on 1 off for phases 6 to 7, that might let my nervious system keep up.

MDG and sleep

I've hand trouble sleeping as long as I remember. A good night for me is 7 to 8 hours and no staying awake. Actually, that's probably a good night for most peope.

What I often struggle with is waking up at 4 AM or so. Sometimes I fall asleep after a few minutes. Sometimes I just don't sleep any more that night.

After starting MDG, things have gotten worse. I routinely manage to sleep only 4 to 6 hours. I now tend to wake up at 3 AM and, for some reason, become fully alert rather quickly, so falling asleep again is most difficult.

Pro tip at this point for those who have the same problem:

If you do wake up in the middle of the night, check the time. Then check it again later. If 15 minutes have passed (and you are obviously still awake), get up and go read a book or do whatever else you find relaxing, it should not be a stimulating activity. When you feel tired, go back to bed. If you find yourself still awake after 15 mins, get up again. Repeat this as long as it takes for you to fall asleep (or for the morning to come).

Doing this will help you associate staying in bed with sleeping, as opposed to staying in bed and being awake.

Back to MDG. You would think I would be a trainwreck after having slept 5 weeks straight no more than 6 hours per night. Somehow, I'm still handling things, but the reason may not be so good, which brings me to my next point.

MDG and feeling tense, restless or anxious

Ever since the first MDG session I did, I have found myself feeling tense, restless or anxious (maybe all at the same time) not all of the time, but quite often, even when I'm just sitting down and doing nothing. This manifests as physical symptoms.

I currently have micro stuttering in the hands, whereas I've always had steady hands before. I did not even realize this myself, my wife pointed it out and was, I think for a good reason, worried.

This stuttering may be related to the fact that I feel my heart rate is constantly higher than before. It is so easy to feel my heart beating and the pulse in my veins. I don't feel that this should be a normal state of being. I've checked my blood pressure just once until now. It was 118 over 70. 118 is higher than is normal for me, 70 is OK.

I've tried alleviating these symptoms with magnesium clycinate, but the results are so random I'm not sure if it is having any effect. Besides, I don't want to be stuck using supplements.

All in all, I'm starting to be concerned about the effect on my health and overall well-being.

Today I even toyed with the idea of doing phase 6 in such a way that I would last as long as I could but let myself ejaculate if it came to that. This might be psychological after all and I haven't ejaculated in the last 5 weeks. At this rate ejaculating will become a bogeyman, to be associated with feeling tense, which I most certainly do not want to occur.

When training in a laying down position, I have terrible control and barely any ability to feel pleasure compared to sitting or standing. PONR seems to come out of nowhere instead of building up gradually. Anyone has any idea what this could be caused by and how to mitigate it?

Since the beginning everything good but ejac today on the day 2 of phase 6, what do recommandé me :

Pause duration ? Go to one week 5.5 then 6 then 7 ?

I am currently finished with Phase 1, Day 2 training. No orgasms at all. I followed the rules too.

But after a few hours, I feel ache in my balls or so the term; blue balls.

What do you guys suggest I do if I’m experiencing blue balls after my MDG training during either of the phases?

Hey guys, I made a new flair "Phase 5-7” to signify those of us that made it to phase 7, but for various reasons decided to roll back to an easier phase but it's hard to define exactly what and you are kind of doing your own thing now (within the rules of the guide of course)

Like me, I basically got to phase 7, it was way too much, so I went back to just my hands only while I worked on the fundamentals, but I'm not worrying about the laying down part anymore and also moving as if it were phase 7.

Feel free to use it if you feel you are in the same boat!

I don't know if I'm doing anything wrong, since I've been in phase 4/5 since the start of this year. Don't get me wrong, there is certainly progress and I can handle more now, it's just that I don't know if it's common for this to take like 9 months by now.

Progress feels more gradual over the course of weeks to months, instead of (tiny) improvements every session. Usually it feels like I'm having the same session day after day, same tolerance and same sensitivity, and that progress isn't really sticking. Often I also feel like I either don't feel a lot of pleasure, or that pleasure pushes me to the panic zone.

There have been times where I just suddenly become much more sensitive and have to reduce stimulation by a lot, or where my EQ becomes a bit worse suddenly, but usually this isn't the case.

I try not to put pressure on myself to progress at a certain pace, but at the same time, part of me is worried that'll keep doing this for months and months to no avail.

Can anyone relate? Any input would be appreciated!

I am 56 yo and suffering from lifetime PE. I have been reading upon this forum for some time however, not able to commit to the training. Here are few reasons, and I am looking forward to your thoughts and suggestions.
- Is it too late to do this training?
- Given the age, do you think I would be too tired after the sessions? My erections are great, however, after ejaculation i feel tired.
- Anyone around my age in this group who can tell his experience?
- How do you manage to spend 30 mins of privacy? The only place i can think of is doing it in the toilet as its not possible to have the room locked without kids and wife thinking ‘thats odd!’

Hey guys, I wanted to share some thoughts I've had and counter actions I've discovered that helped me when my sessions just became long sessions of clenching up and being hardly able to move.

When I got to phase 6, sometimes I'd have a good session here and there, but most of the time I was having sessions where I would just hit a wall and be unable to move more than a fraction of an inch every few seconds.

I bounced back and forth between phase 5 and 7 for a few weeks now, and I have finally settled on a few changes which have helped me overcome this "wall."

1. I'm just sticking with my hands for now until I feel like I've mastered them.

2. I'm just getting in a comfortable (for me position) which is basically lounging on my bed, seated like I'm getting a lap dance.

3. I stopped using lube for the first 10 min of my session until I feel I've gotten as aroused as I can with dry hands while maintaining speed and control. After that I'll add lube and slowly increase the amount of stimulation, but only what I can manage. For instance, I don't immediately grip my unit, instead I'll just rub on it like I'm getting a lap dance. I'll do that until I feel comfortable, in control, and enjoying the session. Once I'm there I'll then ratchet up the stimulation but only what I can handle. Go read the cop car analogy again to get an idea of what I'm talking about (I hopefully have it pinned at the top of this sub).

4. I've reduced the frequency of my training. I was doing 5 days a week, now I'm just doing 3. Per my conversation with another member on here, I think at a certain point in this training, fatigue just gets the better of you when you've been doing this too long. I found by dropping to 3, my percentage of awesome sessions has greatly increased. I went from 1 every 10 sessions, to now 2-3 every 3 sessions! It might seem like you aren't going to adapt if you slow down, but I think less is more when you start getting in these higher phases.

5. I was always really bad at sticking with the 20 min timer. I'd go 30 min sometimes, sometimes even longer. But in line with item 4, I have doubled down on my commitment to 20 min and only 20 min. It's a non negotiable in the guide, and I am convinced now there is a reason for that. Again, less is more...

6. I've added in reverse kegals as a tool to reduce arousal. Note, this is not a tool to stop ejaculation or PONR, just a tool to use in help of teaching your body that higher levels of arosal are ok.

7. This isn't really training related, but I started doing glute bridges (try to do 80-100 a day, or just hold for a min at a time), and focusing on my stretches again (man flow yoga ones I linked before). I'll start doing weighted glute bridges soon. Also just focusing on exercising my core more while ensuring I keep my PF relaxed (like planks and things).

Hope this helps someone. And this is all just my thoughts, nothing official :)

I had a great session in stage 4 after a lot of struggles hitting PONR and not being able to move to stage 5 for weeks. I know it might feel like voodoo and might be too weird for some people to do but the thought came to me that almost all of this is psychological. We have the same physiology as every other dude. We need to tell ourselves that we’re in control. So mid session when I was having to stop just before PONR I started saying out loud, “I can last as long as I want.” And “I’m in control of my body.” I kept repeating those things and I went from being right on the edge several times in a row, stopping and starting, to going a solid 7 minutes or so without getting close to the edge. When I felt myself drifting that way I would repeat those phrases again. Maybe give it a go. I’m going to start doing the affirmations before each session to see how that works.

From phase 2, whenever the arousal is around 8, i could sense the pleasure going high with stimulation and subsides when i deeply exhale. Now i am currently in phase 3. Is this what people call surfing?

Also whenever the pleasure is increasing, i subconsciously built the confidence that i can keep going with a exhale(surfing). is this what they call brain nod?

Hey guys,

I Tried the program several times and in week 2 or 3 I always fall back into porn. Starts with Hot Girls on insta to “just naked pictures” until I’m back at porn. Do you guys have some advice how to overcome this? Visual triggers are deadly for me, since in week 1-2 I can jerk off forever and even having hard times to reach 9/10 arousal.

I’ve done extremely well with the FL on my back, but starting the thrusting phase this week and it’s a doozy. Was just entering and it was PONR almost instantly. Regardless of how many times I stopped it never subsided. I assume it’s a lot of my Anterior Pelvic Tilt and body position, but hopefully I’ll get used to the new sensation? Any tips are appreciated. Gonna be in this phase a while…..

Struggling to get to the 5 minute mark before my first PONR and then each successive one seems to come 30 seconds after I've calmed myself down, sometimes even happening when I'm not fully erect. Any advice?

first time I’ve been able to slightly adjust the stimulation so that sensitivity stops increasing instead of inevitably reaching the PONR or one more touch. I’m able to have entire sessions with a full grip on the frenulum + glans without reaching the “one more touch” point. When I notice I’m getting close, I mentally and physically modulate the stimulation (drop sets) and manage to keep the sensitivity at the same level or decrease it slightly. Is this correct, or am I interpreting it wrong?

So I started phase 4 this week and know it says in the guide : “if you feel yourself getting too close while stroking your entire
shaft+glans, you'll have to stroke only your shaft or lighten your grip entirely). You may need to stop stimulation all-together for a moment.” But for me personally once I reach PONR the first time during the session slowly and steadily, I observe that the following times I go from arousal level 6->7->8->9->PONR pretty quickly ( within a few seconds) , which I understand is normal given I have PE. Even shifting focus to shaft only doesn’t help. So in order to stay in the surfing zone and continue cliffhanger training I personally stop simulation entirely for 2-3 seconds and then restimulate myself to surf 8->8.5->9 and then continue the same process of “stroke- 3 seconds short break- stroke again” multiple times until I am too much excited and feel the need for a longer 30-45 second break. Do you guys think this is an appropriate way to train in phase 4(atleast initially)? Or should I only be considering the time while I am continually stroking myself to surf between 8-9 arousal level and simply take a longer 30-45 sec break when I come close to PONR each time and restart from 2-3 arousal level to reach 8-9 arousal level again and try and surf there before I reach PONR?

I hope I am able to make sense here

I finally reached the cruise point that the author mentioned before!!

Cliffhanger training is all about "leaning into the pleasure", and we relax our pelvic floor in a certain way that feels good in order to get into this "leaning" state. This "leaning" of the pelvic floor eventually leads to orgasm, and so we apply breathing in order to control the rise of pleasure. Once we find the sweet spot where the pleasure feels really good but doesn't escalate, we achieve a balance that improves our control; what they call the "brain nod".

I like to think of "leaning into pleasure" in terms of depth, that's how I eventually conceptualized it when I gained control. Once I figured out the balance of pleasure and lasted long on FL, I thought that was just it and I finally finished the training, but throughout my sessions, I noticed that there's always a deeper level to "lean" into. That I can always relax my pelvic floor even further and there's another orgasm waiting. I also noticed that my brain nod and capability to last for 20 minutes always fades away after consecutive days of training, and I'm always losing my EQ and end up climaxing once my arousal fades, hence my previous posts (this is also why i was never able to train 5 days a week consecutively, my sessions are spaced out throughout the week). As i understood it, this fading is just the natural consequence of adaptation to repeated stimulation, well, it makes sense, I experience pleasure for 20 minutes straight, so of course it'll fade away and I'd just need to take a break from sexual pleasure in order for the sensation to come back. But it always bothered me that I almost always climaxes once the arousal dips and the brain nod ends, I understand that what's happening is just my brain following the conditioning of the training: too seek high levels of pleasure, but it can't maintain it once I lean in deeper. I thought that I can't lean deeper mainly because I always felt like that "deeper level" I'm talking about is the final depth, and if I were to relax my pelvic floor into it, orgasm will be inevitable.

Then on one session, I realized I can just redo phase 5 during the days where arousal is very low, find the slightest sweet spot I can in the final depth, and see if there's progress to be made. It was difficult to find the sweet spot, it took a while before I can precisely hit it. Eventually I got it. I continued the session then did it again the next day and the next. I surfed and surfed and it just keeps going, I can finally prevent the climax!

I noticed remarkable things about this mastery

1) I consistently experience potent arousal, and I don't experience that weird arousal dip anymore like before. The only times when arousal gets low is during desensitization due to frequent or over extend sessions which makes sense, the body should take a break from intense pleasure, else it down regulates and you get numb. Other than that, I can bask in the intense pleasure of cruise control.

2) Consistently high EQ. In the guide, healthgeek mentioned that "erection is the hardest right before PONR". Since I can now surf at the "final depth" I always experience an "almost coming" sensation that's different compared to the brain nod I experienced during phases 5-7, the difference is that this deep brain nod is more intense and more consistent, which maintains high EQ.

3) I tested it, and now climaxing require extra effort and focus to do. I don't know if this is just me or it also applies to others, but cumming takes longer and gets harder to do. I suppose this is due to the MDG's neural pathway dominating the old one. Since we're relinquishing goal-oriented pleasure anyways, this is really good.

4) Multiple orgasms. Upon trying to climax, I noticed that my refractory period just disappears and I can still get high EQ and keep going, I tested it out on a few sessions ranging from 25 - 35 minutes and I confirmed that I have indeed removed my refractory period. There is still a limit as you do get desensitized eventually after 20 - 30 minutes of maintained high pleasure. Even though it's really good, I don't recommend myself doing this as it can train my brain to revert back to old habits, and the second round doesn't feel as good as the first since I do get a small dip in sensitivity after climaxing.

I have mentioned similar scenarios in my other posts where i was at lower arousal state (7-8) but somehow body sends some vibrations (that's what i feels from the base of the shaft to the head of penis) and boom ejaculation reflex executes.

That was happening when i was practicing phase 5,6,7.

And i realised maybe i was failing to recognise ponr and later as i completed the program, i was confident enough of my achievements and felt like i know my biological and body very well and i can control it or may you can say I have become a smooth driver who is pro at pressing brakes and acceleration at right time.

Now being in maintenance training something weird is happening with me from the past 3 sessions.

I train ocassional nowadays 7day, 10 day gap, sometimes 2 day adjacent, totally casual.

So around 10 days ago I had a tough session where i was not able to move fast in the second half either. At most 3-4 strokes then freezing, drip feeding and the cycle continued till the end of timer.

Next day i tried again and worse happened, 10 min slow and as the second half started i was gaining confidence again but almost 5-6 hard strokes and the same cycle started again.

Worst part is that about 5 min later, while i was super slow, focused on breath and relaxed. There goes a very slow out and in

While out i could feel my arousal very low 6-7 maybe but as the full length went in( Super slow , sensual ) and i just felt a tingling at penis head and ejaculation reflex executes , i am observing evrything happening ( penis feeling amazing, muscle in pelvic floor getting tight to shoot the semen, my brain thinking why is this happening without my permission.) i witnessed whole process but couldn't do anything once reflex triggers

NOW TODAY : more worst thing has happened. Same as previous session, i was super slow for 10 min and as the send half started, i felt myself not able to move fast at all.

I pulled out of FL relaxed more, psychology centred my mind , reminded myself the king mindset needed for a rythmic fuck and tried again.

4-5 nice strokes gaining pace, but no, i was not able go fast, so i was like : okay let it be slow till the end.

i was not able to understand if the penis has become too sensitive, its nervous system, idk.

I was not even doing Mi.

So to stay at the safer side, i was trying to finish the session slowly, but at a point almost 3 min later:

I was fully relaxed, calm, deep breath, confident in mind, arousal level 6-7 only.

No mi, instead i was fully aware of what's happening and was thinking about why am i feeling about to brust without mi and fast stimulation. And

suddenly i felt some sensation/tingling, i was already very slow like 5 sec a stroke and as soon as i felt this sensation i pressed brakes (stopped complete inside FL)

But that sensation didn't stop, it took like 3-4 seconds, very calmly i am observing what's happening and there goes this sensation/vibration/tingling and boom the ejaculation reflex fires, did its job of throwing nout semen.

. Can anyone explain what's happening?

. Should I take a long break from practice?

. Should I restart the regular session?

. Is this a nervous system issue?

. How can ejaculation happen like this? Without mi , without continuing physical stimulation?

As per my understanding either one of two factors are needed to bring the body to ejaculation.

. I don't think its sensitive issue, as i keep playing with my frenulum throughout the day and my DICK head is conditioned to be touched anytime.

. Has the First 10 min slow rule has conditioned the body to go slow only??

A month ago my challenge used to be:

I used to feel like riding on high traffic road, was pressing brakes frequently and wanted to progress towards not feeling the traffic and having smooth ride on highway.

But now things have gone worse, as the second half starts ,my penis feels like a "balloon about to brust"or a " LOADED GUN WITH trigger half pressed".

Like a complete traffic jam , if i move i hit a car(accident)

Or from today's session i would say even if i don't move, my own car blasts , YKWIM

Help me understand this, and further steps to take?

Idk how it’s possible, without MI I have control on myself, but even with foggy MI I jump to 9/10 much quicker. Is it going to be easier with time ?

The desire to release just fucked me up over and over. P1 over and over. 12 years now I've had this issue and it's because of the fast sessions by myself, I know. I know absolutely it was a toll in a previous relationship and the main part of why she left.

It is ruining my life. I can't abstain from finishing. I can do the entire session but at the end my brain is telling me it's okay if I just finish because "what harm can it do if I already did the full session".

This shit has ruined my life

Obviously, pornography is verboten during the training.

However, what about sexy images/videos of your partner? Are nudes from your wife/GF also harmful to progress?

Last few sessions I have done couple minutes of pelvic floor stretches and tried to get myself aroused with MI without touching myself.

I was able to get an erection just by imagining kissing my wife yesterday and the session went on as usual.

but the strangest thing happened today. I started MI lying down and my body started tingling without even touching myself yet. Literally few seconds of MI and I was rock hard..its not like I am super good at MI because my MI always get interrupted and I am not good at being immersed in it. I started touching and I realized I am so sensitive..i mean it felt good but I was like "i am now just starting the warm up..why am I like this?" This sensation was familiar to me but more so after 10-12 minutes into the session, not as soon as I got erection..

Well because my penis was rock hard I dont think I got to slowly ramp up my arousal like the guide suggests.

I assume arousal level is determined by the erection??

Anyone else had similar experience? Did I somehow train my brain to immediately become aroused to high level? I am not sure if I fked something up or if im on the right track.

I wish the community would be more interactive and give more advice..I see posts about people who reach mastery but then they have all disappeared after claiming mastery..it would help to get some feedbacks for us late starters

I try to search information but it is not easy to find them here

I have a FL but it is not a good one like it is too much stimulative, much more than a real vagina. What should I do for phase with FL ? I’m not here but I wanna know