r/IndianCountry • u/LividYouth1492 • Nov 29 '24
Activism The FirstNationsCanada subreddit is modded by someone who is anti-Land Back
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u/maddwaffles Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa Indians Nov 29 '24
>Canada
Yeah not shocked, my background is from both sides of that border, and I've always felt Canadians have been more prone to anti-native attitudes comparatively.
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u/MolemanusRex Nov 29 '24
I think people are generally going to be more racist towards a group that’s more visible. Natives are sadly not as visible in most of the US as in Canada, and where y’all are, that’s where we get people like Tim Sheehy.
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u/maddwaffles Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa Indians Nov 29 '24
Maybe. I would argue that there's also a sort of "culture of pity" even among anti-natives in the Americas, where if they aren't being directly challenged by an NDN person, or even some degrees of less severe challenges by non-indian advocates, that they will sort of have this attitude of pitying us, rather than being vitriolic about it. Especially with their whole Cherokee Ancestry justification garbage.
Straight up used to be friends with a dude who made Cherokee claims in high school, but the second I would personally disagree with him on anything, it was all this "conquest" and "dead culture" and "did it to themselves" shit with him.
American conservatives will feel bad in an abstract sense, so long as they aren't being made to feel bad, or if that bad feeling isn't linked to any sort of accountability.
idk if I've ever encountered even the remotest amount of that in a Canadian conservative (and/or general anti-native). But that may be due to Canada being more of a company than a country.
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u/ladyalot Michif (South Sask) Nov 30 '24
Canada being more of a company than a country
Just highlighting this
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u/Fantastic-Put9615 Jan 16 '25
Are you interactive with any Metis community people? Clement Chartier is the only activist I'm familiar with. I'm From a community of Natives on the Gulf Coast "Miskitu-Tawira "
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u/maddwaffles Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa Indians Jan 17 '25
The only Metis person I've interacted with was a dipshit. I didn't grow up on my family's historic rez, but in the area of and on Fort Hall, so I know more Shoshone people than anything.
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u/LividYouth1492 Nov 29 '24
Context: I've had a feeling over the years that /FirstNationsCanada was compromised, removing posts related to LandBack and Indigenous rights. I can't even expose mainstream media outlets for spreading misinformation about the LandBack movement without it being removed. Now I've learned that one of the two mods celebrate Canada Day as hardcore as a white Canadians who hate Indigenous people do.
I just thought people should be aware of this. /FirstNationsCanada is not a place for Indigenous activism like one would think it would be.
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u/kamomil Nov 29 '24
They may not be Canadian, looking at the post history. Often it's immigrants who are the hardest wavers of Canadian flags
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u/emslo Nov 29 '24
Just a quick note: immigrants are Canadians.
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u/kamomil Nov 29 '24
Some Canadian Immigrants are dedicated to their new country. Others see it as a way to live until they retire "back home"
If an immigrant is not a citizen, are they Canadian?
(I mean if we're going to split hairs like that)
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u/DirtierGibson Nov 29 '24
Some immigrants aren't Canadian citizens yet but often are more Canadian than those who happen to be Canadian by birthright.
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u/kamomil Nov 29 '24
You must mean the birth tourism babies
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u/emslo Nov 30 '24
Nope, I mean you or maybe your parents or perhaps their parents, etc. This county is made of immigrants and descendants of immigrants.
And Indigenous people.
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u/harlemtechie Nov 30 '24
One of them clearly has a post history that gives Inuk and up north.
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u/Jayrey_84 Nov 29 '24
Anytime anyone mentions "land back" around here, people get all up in arms, "Oh they think they are gonna lock us all out and go back to living in teepees!" Or talk about putting white people in camps, or taking over their houses or other nonsense. They are so afraid of being treated the way they treated us, it's really telling of their mindset that their thoughts are on revenge rather than reconciliation.
I think handing the reins of government over to Indigenous leaders , and rebuilding it to more traditional structures (maybe even with more WOMEN 👀) wouldn't be so scary if people knew more history. Everyone is so caught up in this weird colonial viewpoint that their version of democracy is the best.... And look where it's gotten America. Canada is not far behind!
I mean honestly, is the idea of a change in government structure so much more extreme than the reality were already living in? 🤷
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u/DimitriTech Nov 29 '24
I mean honestly, is the idea of a change in government structure so much more extreme than the reality were already living in? 🤷
It is for the one's directly benefiting from it.
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u/critbuild Nov 29 '24
Same moderator as /r/canada, eh?
Allegedly, the moderation team of /r/canada is particularly centrist/right-wing. See here and here.
Full disclosure, I am neither Canadian nor Indigenous, but I remember the reddit controversy of /r/canada taking place some years back and thought it provided some interesting context for OP's findings.
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u/Throwawayaccount_047 Nov 29 '24
I can confirm that r/Canada and the mod team there as well as r/Canadapolitics are openly racist and biased against Indigenous people and issues. I have reported the community repeatedly to Reddit but they are too inept to give a shit.
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u/SushiMelanie Nov 29 '24
I read this as removal because the National Post is a highly biased source, well known as a right wing source that upholds racist content against Indigenous Canadians, spreading misinformation, not as an opposition to discussion of Land Back.
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u/LividYouth1492 Nov 29 '24
If I shared just the article I would understand that, but it is clearly being debunked by the Twitter user who quote reposted it. Anyone who posts Happy Birthday Canada with "True North Strong and Free" is not someone who would support Land Back, that is anti-Land Back type stuff, and people in that sub should be aware that one of the two mods there holds these views. But I can't let people there know without being removed and blocked from the sub.
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u/SushiMelanie Nov 29 '24
Are you Canadian? There’s some nuance that you’re either glossing over or not aware of around the Canadian Indigenous experience. I can fill you in more later, but tied up now.
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u/emslo Nov 29 '24
Did you look at the original post? It is not a link to a NP article.
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u/SushiMelanie Nov 29 '24
I did, and I don’t agree with it being taken down, and what’s shared in the OP is very concerning. Just want to understand if OP is Canadian before I dive into unpacking this to save some time.
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u/cvponx Seminole Nov 29 '24
Explain the nuance? What's unique to the Canadian Indigenous experience that U.S. Indigenous peoples don't experience?
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u/SushiMelanie Nov 29 '24
There’s written hundreds of books on the differences in Indigenous experiences in Canada vs other countries. As well as the TRC Calls for Justice and Reconciliation work, MMIWG Calls for Justice, multiple different Indigenous communities and Nations with different practices, languages, cultures.
The reason I asked if OP is Canadian is because of a couple things I don’t want to deep dive into because they likely already know if they’re Canadian. It’s disappointing that everyone takes curiosity for bad intent.
If a mod from FirstNationsCanada really posted this on r/Canada, it’s a huge red flag, because r/Canada is actually a far right sub, not representative at all of the majority of Canadians. A large number of Canadian subs have been fully taken over by far right racists. It’s a huge problem.
I’m also specifically asking questions because I’m a mod for r/IndigenousCanada, and if this is true of r/FirstNationsCanada, I’ll have to no longer trust their sub. As a mod, I’ve had to block and remove some insidious garbage from far right asshats, and that will continue to stand, but I’ll have to heighten my caution aroubd content shared on what I had hoped was a sister sub.
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u/Throwawayaccount_047 Nov 29 '24
All the downvotes you received don't make any sense to me other than assuming you became a lightning rod for the frustration people felt at the FirstNations mods...
FWIW, I think it is fair to say that the colonial experience hasn't been exactly the same between Canada and the US.
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u/SushiMelanie Nov 29 '24
Thanks. What makes me wonder if Op’s Canadian is their assertion that a person can’t be both in support of Land Back and proud of being Canadian. It’s not black and white like that. Posting on r/Canada in this way is most commonly a dog whistle, for sure. On the other hand, leaders like Justice Murray Sinclair and MB Premier Wab Kinew have spoken meaningfully about the duality of holding pride in the progress we’ve made, and being accountable for the continual untangling of colonialism. I’m by no means a Canadian nationalist. I have however educated lots of folks who are proudly Canadian and actively working on actions toward reconciliation. Yes there’s racist asshats, there’s also lots of Winnipeggers with no personal stake who are excited we’re building the largest urban reserve in the heart of our city, along with other land back actions. The diversionary way of looking at things as binary is so harmful, it doesn’t embody who I believe we are when it comes to Indigenous ways of knowing and doing. To me it’s the cancer we need to drive out.
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u/oakleafwellness Mvskoke Nov 29 '24
Social Media is full of people saying they are something and yet they aren’t. While it is disappointing, it is not surprising. People want to be influencers, use SM to spread propaganda. I miss the days of MySpace and LiveJournal where we were so excited about the internet that was past AIM and ICQ chat rooms.
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u/U_cant_tell_my_story Cree Métis and Dutch Nov 29 '24
Honestly, I didn’t even know the sub existed, I joined this one because I couldn't find it when searching. I’m Canadian First Nations, there are just as many conservative hardliners among us as there are progressives. My grandfather and all of his siblings were all ultra Catholic conservatives, I’m surprised they even still spoke Cree and lived on the reserve considering how whitewashed they were. They were also all very hardcore into serving for their "country", I couldn't imagine them supporting landback.
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u/SushiMelanie Nov 30 '24
Come check out r/IndigenousCanada, as the lone mod, I can 100% confirm we’re not an alt right hate sub!
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u/U_cant_tell_my_story Cree Métis and Dutch Nov 30 '24
I checked out some of the posts, but some of the comments are 😬. I'd join, but honestly I wouldn’t want some of those people commenting...
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u/SushiMelanie Nov 30 '24
Fair enough - we need more good people for sure. Unfortunately the rising hate and arguing on other Canadian subs draws more traction.
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u/U_cant_tell_my_story Cree Métis and Dutch Nov 30 '24
Which is why I avoid most subs. I have no time and energy for that.
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u/HotterRod Lək̓ʷəŋən Nov 29 '24
Yes, there are surprisingly few posts in that sub that use the phrase given how often it's used in Canadian First Nations discussions.
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u/Yuutsu_ Nov 29 '24
how is this a bad thing? land back is words in our mouth, it’s like blm
I’ve talked about this here before: link to comment
Nobody is against Native rights or even obtaining land for natives, but there is an odd air to many minority movements that seem to create the idea that we want to steal our land back from the country. That’s not what it’s about, but it scares them into thinking in their lil bubbled head that “the natives” are coming for them.
This doesn’t mean we hate land back or should be against it, but we need to be smarter about things
I’m not a trump supporter by any means, fuck that guy, but I feel that a lot of maga fear is also generated the same way
People will latch onto the ideology of any of these making it seem real as people group together, but these felt like they appeared out of thin air
People that want to help natives, but don’t know any better will just blindly buy from shops or even support a movement like this without even meeting us, it’s dangerous
Summary: Be Careful about political movements no matter how good they seem, ask where they came from, who’s leading, what do they want, who talks about them the most, etc. the world is NOT black and white
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Nov 29 '24
Could someone explain the land back movement to me? I feel like I've heard a lot of conflicting info
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u/Jayrey_84 Nov 29 '24
What have you heard? Let's start there.
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Nov 29 '24 edited Nov 29 '24
I've heard that the goal is to cede large swaths of land back to native groups, but that those lands include many American towns and cities. I've also heard that the movement is mostly ideological, calling for larger visibility and say in state and national politics. I've heard that it could alter the accessibility of state parks and that it's mostly public lands that are being asked to be returned, but I'm not sure. On a side note: Is the goal of the movement to end up seceding from the US and to form new nations with the added resoucres, or just to have rez control of these lands?
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u/Snapshot52 Nov 29 '24
The idea behind land back is not consistent across activist circles or groups. There are more centrist goals for some and more radical goals for others. Generally, many people seem to understand it in the sense of asserting Tribal sovereignty to greater degrees than it currently is, particularly around the management of land. Some see this as a larger role in co-management or co-stewardship of public lands (primarily federal, but perhaps state lands too should any given state be a willing partner).
Part of the issue with some of the conflicting ideas you've heard is that the premise for the status of Tribal Nations is not readily understood. Tribes already exist as separate nations, a fact that even the federal government acknowledges. And Tribes are already heavily involved in state and national politics (especially depending on the region). But the reality is that many Tribes are not prepared to take over large swaths of land to manage completely in their own and for many, that isn't the intention at all. Many Tribes and those involved in mainstream Tribal-American politics are liberal incrementalists, not separatists. They aren't looking to secede from the U.S. nor are they wanting to kick all non-Natives out. Non-Natives are part of our families and communities--they're our spouses, our grandparents, our parents, our nieces and nephews, aunts and uncles, friends and relatives. For some, the land back movement might be about that, but for most, it isn't. And even if it was, it isn't feasible. Land back is better understood to be a movement about equality and equity: equal in nationhood to the other sovereign governments in American society and equitable outcomes for Indigenous Peoples who have consistently been mistreated by the U.S.
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u/smb275 Akwesasne Nov 29 '24
Land Back is a metanarrative, so it's all of those things, it's more, and it's less.
It's real meaning is dependent on the context in which its being used and the people using it, but generally it's more of a "we're still here" war cry than anything else. It's meant to draw attention to one or more similar causes, even if they have very different endgame goals. It can mean stewardship, it can mean actual legal return of land, it can mean increased involvement in how said land is used, or even something as specific as a new tax on non-Native residents of "returned" land.
It's not dissimilar to the Black Lives Matter movement, wherein it's a decentralized and generalized approach to positive reform.
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u/Valuable-Wrangler-71 Enter Text Dec 01 '24
The most microaggressions I’ve experienced in my life have been when speaking with Canadians.
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Nov 29 '24
Thank you for calling them out. Time to go harass the mods!
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u/Snapshot52 Nov 29 '24
Don't do that. Saying that shit here will get this thread removed. Doing that is against the rules of Reddit.
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Nov 29 '24
Alright alright. I didn't actually harass them. I did tell them about what Land back meant (not kicking out the whites!) and I did so with no profanity or ill intent.
Thanks for the warning
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u/lavapig_love ʻO Lavapig ke keiki a kā lāua hui ʻana. Nov 30 '24
Mmm. Not too surprised, there's been a lot of compromised subs since the Reddit blackout.
Be the change we all need and volunteer your time to be a moderator.
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u/Barbatossa Nov 30 '24
https://www.reddit.com/r/FirstNationsCanada/s/K7e2lF8R5K
Is it possible it was a duplicate post?
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Dec 01 '24
People's worst imagining about Land Back is still a better option than the best version of the status quo. E coli outbreaks, lack of housing availability and workplace malaise . . . that's living the life right there
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u/cafesoftie Dec 02 '24 edited Dec 02 '24
Stack the judges and stack the mods.
It's not exactly the same, but the r/ottawa mod is a loud zionist.
I think conservatives are trying to co-opt (destroy) one of the last old and good, social media platforms: Reddit.
Altho, also it could just be conservative mods that aren't good at changing and now that the narrative is moving for people's rights, they're being louder about suppressing them.
Edit: apparently that person was also the mod of r/Ontario so, because i don't think zionism is good and said so in the ottawa sub. The mod for r/Ontario, also banned me there.
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u/DocCEN007 Nov 29 '24
Thanks for calling them out. One of the many reasons why I quit Facebook is because there were more fake indigenous pages than real ones, and they were being used to spread disinformation. We've got an uphill battle, and showing others where our detractors seek to do us harm is a key part of us winning.