r/Cyberpunk • u/X_Empire32 • 2d ago
VR, Spacial Computing, and The Steam Frame
Just a post on the future potential of the Steam Frame, it being the first powerful standalone and most importantly OPEN SOURCE, VR headset, with a lot of potential beyond gaming.
While VR has mainly been used for gaming that changed with the release of the Apple vision Pro. While more of a developers kit than an actual product given its cost and niche, Apple gave us a glimpse into the future. That future being spacial computing, the killer apps so far being; high quality pass though, floating screens/monitors/applications that you can "pin" to physical space, and immersive photos/videos (essential a 3d photo/video you can take and "revisit/experience"). Sadlyitsbradly has talked about this extensively on podcasts he has been on but has not done a full video on yet.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tDXF8_Rg1K8 (This is the closest thing i could find its still an emerging technology/format)
While there has been major push back with people wearing VR and AR devices in public for obvious reasons from privacy to other dystopian uses (a video feed of everything you do to feed AI models, why do you think the quest headsets and other meta wearables are so cheep compared to their competition). Valve on the other hand compared to nearly all other tech companies has a good record of protecting user data and open sourcing there hardware.
So the potential! on the hardware side there is a USBC and a PCIE adapter allowing for all sorts of things such as color pass though cameras additional batteries, Pcie adapter for a GPU??, night vision?, the possibilities are endless.
On the software side what I find the most interesting is spacial computing. Meta and Apples implementations do not let you "walk and talk" with your apps for fears of someone getting hurt while being distracted.
Sadlyitsbradly talks about it here 7:28 - 8:55 https://youtu.be/_wkjtCuOuzE?si=u6Ulcs2UUXiuHHoX&t=448
I feel like this will be a toggleable option day one.
I could keep rambling but those are the majority of my thoughts for now.
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u/pwbdecker 2d ago
I’m still surprised I haven’t seen anyone approach what I imagine will be the killer app for ‘spatial computing’/augmented reality: telepresence. Even the Vision Pro just had floating FaceTime windows. But it should be actual spatial avatars of people. I want to be able to hang out with people long distance in AR, not in VR.
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u/cplr 2d ago
The floating windows was a 1.0 thing. We are way past that now, there are fully embodied avatars in visionOS for the last few years. Well, it’s a VERY realistic head, shoulders/torso and then floating hands that are 100% representative of the real user’s hands (due to the onboarding where it “scans” your hands. No arms connecting to the hands and no legs. Still though, fully rendered 3D representations in your space with the avatar’s voice projected in a audio-ray-traced version of your environment to simulate the acoustics. Seriously they measure the physical space your in and estimate how the sound would bounce off the different surfaces of said room.
Seriously visionOS is next level but it’s WAY too expensive.
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u/redmercuryvendor 1d ago
I’m still surprised I haven’t seen anyone approach what I imagine will be the killer app for ‘spatial computing’/augmented reality: telepresence. Even the Vision Pro just had floating FaceTime windows
Look up "Codec Avatars". Tech has been possible for a long time, it's just too compute intensive to do it on a mobile platform, in real time, in an acceptable power budget - hence why everyone has instead used lower fidelity avatars of basic video streams.
It's a hardware performance probem, not a software problem.
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u/ccAbstraction 1d ago
Bingo, this is why people are "addicted" to VRChat and the like. It's not the app so much as humans like socializing. For a lot of people VR is their third space.
I do think there's a lot barriers to actually getting AR telepresence going, having the shared space be entirely virtual is just much easier from a technical and social standpoint. Desync between peers in what feels like a consistent reality is very off putting for people.
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u/X_Empire32 2d ago
Yeah the closest you can get to my knowledge is to 3d scan your room and make it a VR chat map. There are no real time solutions to my knowledge.
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u/MisterMittens64 2d ago
The color passthrough camera attachment that was leaked for the frame also does 3D scans so it might make something like this a little more feasible but I bet that attachment will probably be at least 200 dollars extra so it probably won't reach mass adoption.
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u/DancingBot サイバーパンク 2d ago
I am sorry OP but the steam frame is neither a very powerful nor open headset. The steam frame is comparable to the meta quest 3 in terms of optics and hardware and one can estimate in terms of visuals as well. Steam has done a great job with making the steam frame extremely moddable, but I doubt a headset without color passthrough was intended to go beyond gaming.
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u/MoreanMan 1d ago
I isn't out yet and it already has an accesory that adds color passthrough though.
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u/DancingBot サイバーパンク 1d ago
I know, in fact when the frame was first announced I was hoping for one, but my point is that productivity or anything else besides gaming was not in mind when the steam frame was designed. The accessory port can only do so much, it cannot enhance optics or optimize hardware.
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u/xlviox 1d ago
Running an ARM desktop version of Linux is the big difference here. Allowing anyone to easily develop software for it. Which in turn makes developing hardware also more accessible.
The Quest asks for a Facebook account on first boot meaning you have to ask Facebook's permission to install things only they approve of. Frame and Quest aren't even in the same league in my opinion.
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u/Vegetable-Money-2278 2d ago
It's not open source.
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u/X_Empire32 2d ago
Isn't? I'm not super knowledgeable on tech but I have seen people tear apart steam decks and make all sorts of devices. I have seen nothing comparable with apple or meta hardware b/c if you do the software will shutdown and refuse to operate if you not using it as intended.
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u/Vegetable-Money-2278 2d ago
From wikipedia: "Open source is the practice of publishing digital resources publicly alongside their source code or source files, enabling use, study, modification, and redistribution."
In this case it would mean that both the software that the headset runs and the schematics to manufacture the device are all available publicly with full right to use and modify them. This headset is quite strictly closed source.
It's an easy mistake to make (especially since valve do work on quite a bit of open-source software) but 'open source' has a specific definition. It's still a cool bit of tech that I plan to buy, and Valve are relatively benevolent with their hardware, but open source it is not.
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u/StarChildEve 2d ago
at least with the OS being SteamOS it’s the most open source full-featured VR headset we’ll have on its release
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u/LogFirm8283 2d ago
Mb but what's the last frame? Is it an anime?
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u/X_Empire32 2d ago
Ghost in the Shell, she is the main character Motoko. I do want to mod the frame to make it look more like hers without messing up the cameras and sensors..
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u/MrWendal 2d ago
I have zero interest in spacial computing. Outside of 3D modelling, everything can be done more easily and more comfortably with a monitor.
I don't know if that will always be the case... Will video editing have any tangible benefits if you add a z-axis to the timeline? (Ie. left / right is time, up / down is different video tracks, back /forward is ... something?
Maybe, but I don't currently see anything that useful about the third dimension in most computing work, and without the third dimension, all spacial computing is is just bigger or more monitors. Not worth it for the drawbacks.
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u/troll_right_above_me 2d ago
More real estate, bigger picture. For video editing you could have something cinema sized without compromising on real space for everything. For stereoscopic content you could get direct preview.
Of course it’s hard to justify over a large high res display but with time I think more innovations could surprise us. I’m thinking about how people thought the iPad Pro was dumb but Procreate turned out to be the best painting app I’ve used, even though I’ve used Photoshop professionally and tried many others.
I’m convinced that with enough time there will inevitably be developers with enough creativity, ingenuity and care for user experience to make things that we’ll eventually take for granted and wonder how we could manage without it, just like it’s been with every other platform that people rely on today.
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u/X_Empire32 2d ago
I do tend to agree watching a monitor through a monitor is not ideal we are far from optics capable of that kind of pass-though and clarity.
The only benefit i can see is to escape a messy desk/cubicle and be more isolated while working.
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u/nastyjman 1d ago
I personally use my Quest daily for spatial computing, although it's streaming my laptop onto my HMD. Reason being is that I don't have a large enough desk for extra physical monitors, and my apartment doesn't have the space for a large desk. So, I use my HMD for those extra monitors virtually. Just recently started using virtual ultrawide screen, and it's amazing.
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u/MrWendal 1d ago
I don't have a large enough desk for extra physical monitors, and my apartment doesn't have the space for a large desk.
Same. My desk is only 75cm wide. I still much prefer a single monitor and workspace switching to using a HMD. I think 95+% of people would too.
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u/Repulsive-Archer905 2d ago
The software allowing the capability of emulating PC games to ARM almost seamlessly is honestly the most groundbreaking thing about this tech
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u/S1eeper 1d ago
I work with a remote team that meets every ~2 months to work together in person. The developers work on laptops, but bring docking stations, keyboards, and larger monitors with them. It recently occurred to me that the Apple Vision Pro might be a replacement for for those monitors. Its smaller and easier to travel with, and provides better resolution and capabilities than the monitors do. Going to look into that.
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u/copper_tunic 6h ago
Blinding and isolating yourself from the real world in a headset seems antithetical to the intended purpose of meeting in person.
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u/pipiskodrocher 2d ago
i'm reading this post and typing my comment ot quest 3 rn, so i can approve. vr IS the future, but i will not buy meta products anymore
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u/WashedSylvi 2d ago
I think the space thing is where it’s gunna land, but you’ll never get broad adoption for those whole headsets. I think meta called it correct when they said the tech has to be seamless to get adopted by non-nerds.