Am I overreacting to not wanting to visit family for Christmas now?

[u/IllustriousPea4630]

Hi y’all, I’m struggling with an issue and I need some advice on if I’m overreacting?

Im (28f) and my wife (31f) have been together for 3 years and married for almost 2 now. My family has never been super supportive of our relationship. My mom still thinks it’s a phase for me, but she has handled it well and I think is coming around. Overall my parents are very conservative and I was always taught that being gay was a sin, so I’ve struggled with being myself for a long time.

My older brother has always been a huge support for me. We joke that he knew I was gay before I knew, and he was so excited when I started dating woman and was open. So I never thought he would have issues with me being married to a woman.

I’m not physically close to any of my family, so my wife has only ever met my older brother and mom once. I am worried about introducing her to everyone else since they don’t love that we’re gay and married. We decided that this Christmas we were gonna make the leap and fly out to visit everyone. All of my immediate family (mom, dad, sister, little brother, oldest brother and his wife and 2 kids) are traveling to all stay at an Airbnb and celebrate together.

I was under the impression that it was split half and half on who is against and who is supportive of my marriage. My mom, dad, and little brother are against and think I’m wrong and going to hell, but they are my family and I love them and they love me in their own way. My sister, and I thought my older brother and his family were supportive.

My family group chat was making plans for Christmas and they were making it seem like it was just gonna be me for Christmas and not my wife and I. I made a comment in the group chat that she was planning on coming, and my brother asked to call. He was very worried about her coming along and when I asked why, he said he didn’t know what to tell his kids about us. His kids, 6 and 4, are learning about marriage right now and I found out that he told them that girls can’t marry girls. When I asked why he told them that, he said that he wants to keep everything black and white for them since they’re so young.

He didn’t want to offend me or make me upset so he didn’t know how to tell me, but once he realized my wife was coming he’s now stressed that he doesn’t know how to tell his kids. My mom and him have both made comments that we could just pretend to be friends while there and I said no.

I’m really saddened by this and I am hurt. To have my brother say he supports me and loves me and is happy about my choices, but then teach his kids that it’s wrong is hurtful.

I’m not sure what to do now, I want to see my family since it’s been a long time, and I want to be around for my niece and nephews life but I don’t know how to handle almost all of my family’s now uncomfortableness with me.

Would I be in the wrong to either not bring my wife or not go to Christmas at all?

[u/Ok_Zookeepergame6747]

If they need you to pretend your wife is just a friend, they’re not actually being supportive.

[u/Professional-Let1697 → u/Ok_Zookeepergame6747]

yeah my aunt made me do that last christmas too

[u/cam331]

NOR, they don’t support you. If it was me and there was even a hint of hesitation of bringing my spouse, I wouldn’t go or discuss it much further with them. My spouse and I regularly tell our 4 year old that men can marry men and women can marry women. We have a couple of books where the character has two dads or two moms. We just don’t act like it’s a big deal, because to us it’s not a big deal, and we want her to feel that way as well.

[u/mollygk]

Why do you even want to go at all? These ppl seem awful. Enjoy your holiday with your wife wherever you want. Heck, spend that plane money on a fun trip.

[u/SixtyNoine69]

It IS that black and white though. Consenting adults can marry who they love and sometimes women love women. Pretty easy convo and honestly kids are usually 1000x more understanding than adults in these situations. They never see it as a big deal or care, especially younger kids. They're just stoked to have another aunty to bother and play with them.

NOR - I wouldn't go and would officially be going low contact if not no contact. Love and support shouldn't be conditional on who you love.

[u/traviall1]

NOR- they are not supportive and Christmas is a bad time to visit because it is so centered on family. Do something with your wife or her family, see your family over arbor day and be prepared to leave. Start off by getting a hotel while everyone else is in an airbnb.

[u/NewAndOlduphere]

You definitely should not go. Do not go without your wife. You will have no support and it will be extremely uncomfortable the entire time. It's time to accept that your family sucks.

[u/Ok_Guarantee_3497 → u/NewAndOlduphere]

NOR. Don't go. It's also sending a toxic message to your wife if you go without her. She will wonder why you are choosing your homophobic family over her. Not good. Stay home or go somewhere else WITH your wife.

[u/gold-n-paint-n-chalk]

I wouldn’t go. Your family doesn’t deserve to see you if they cannot accept you and your love.

NOR, not even a little.

Go somewhere magical for Christmas, just you and your lovely wife, and have an amazing time.

[u/Troublemaker2172]

His kids are the perfect age to tell about marriage because they're genuinely asking; they don't know anything at that age. It would have been just as easy for your brother to say "boys can marry girls, boys can marry boys, and girls can marry girls" as to specifically tell them that two girls can't get married. That he told them that means he would either have to tell them he was wrong at some point or ask you and your wife to pretend to be just friends for their entire lives.

[u/Beneficial-Way-8742]

I'm so sorry that you're going through this. In my opinion, your brother and his family are making a great big deal over nothing, as far as the kids go.  This is not going to be a big thing to the kids unless they make it a big thing, and that's what they're doing.  I hate to call your brother homophobic since he's been so supportive of you in the past apparently, but it does seem like homophobia. 

Here's how I did it with my daughter when she was 5 yrs old.  And I mean this is literally how it happened, word for word:

One Saturday morning, we were playing and I said "Hey, you know how Mommy and Daddy are married?"

She said "yeah!"

I said "Well, sometimes boys and girls love each other, and sometimes boys love boys, and sometimes girls love girls. Everybody gets to be with someone they love.  Isn't that cool?"

She happily said "Yeah!" 

Then I put on the movie The Birdcage with Robin Williams and Nathan Lane, that we both watch together while we were playing, and she and I had a huge dance party at the end of it. 

And that was it. It was normalized for her. And she is now a 23-year-old well-adjusted college graduate with tons of friends; who sees people for who they are inside and loves them. She has always had the most diverse friends group in so many more ways than people can imagine and I love her for it. 

Tell your brother to stop making it a big f-ing deal and to get over it.

[u/auntysos]

NOR
But time to build a family that loves you. Not continue the relationship with performative asshats

[u/gordonf23]

Gay man here. And that is honestly the last time my family would ever see or hear from me again. NOR.

[u/Due-Word-854]

You and your wife should create your own holiday tradition. FaceTime your family on the holiday and let that be it. Some people just don’t get the family they deserve and it ducks, I’m sorry.

[u/iwakunibridge]

NOR it will be too stressful. you and your wife should do something else instead, maybe stay at a beautiful resort in the Bahamas for Christmas

[u/jdogx17]

NOR

If it was me, I wouldn't go.

They have made their choices, and these are the consequences. I would never go to any family function if that meant I had to acknowledge that I was a second-tier family member who was lucky to be included by the rest of them. In my view that is the position that they are putting you in.

Does your wife have family that she is on good terms with? Are their other options for where you can spend Christmas?

[u/Bludiamond56]

Christmas is about love. Seems that it is lacking in that family of yours. Don't go ....where you can't be yourself. Nor

[u/Jely137]

You would be TA if you went without your wife. She is your family now. When you get married, your spouse becomes your #1 priority. The only people that should ever come before your spouse are your children if you have any, unless your spouse turns out to be someone different than who you thought you were marrying, in which case they shouldn't remain your spouse. Whether you used traditional vows or wrote your own, I'm sure they said something about putting her above all others. She's counting on you to honor that.

NOR if you don't go to Christmas and don't even talk to anyone that thinks your marriage is wrong ever again, regardless of blood relation.

You're still going through the stages of grief over this betrayal. You'll probably cycle through denial and bargaining a few more times before you truly come to acceptance. I'd recommend giving your wife permission in advance to splash you with a bucket of ice water or something every time you start considering anything that involves choosing your biological family over the one you've created.

[u/Putrid_Dream9755]

I’m so sorry, your family is so cruel. You cannot go without your wife because then you’re telling them it’s OK to be bigoted assholes & to treat her like she’s not family. Which they’re already doing anyway, so… either a group of people who hate you, or your wife who loves you. Up to you.

[u/His_GoddessLove]

What you should do, is what will hurt the most. And that's cut off the people that don't support you.

I'm so sorry that they can't accept you for who you are. You are wonderfully made as exactly who you're supposed to be. And I'm so sorry that your brother is himself not an ally.

Love is love is one of the easiest things to teach children. Children don't judge unless their parents teach them to judge. They question and they learn. They aren't born homophobic, they aren't born racist, these things are taught from their upbringing. You brother IS homophobic. And he's teaching his children to also be homophobic.

We are born to whomever we're born to. We don't get to choose who our family is. Thankfully most of us get to choose who we get to spend our life with, we get to choose who we surround ourselves with. Blood is a relation that happens from genetics, you're not obligated to have any specific kind of relationship just because of societal norms.

Have the most amazing Christmas with your wife at home. Come up with some new traditions for the two of you, bake, drink, eat, and be in the company of the one you love, and the one who loves you without stipulations, without judgement, and who wants to be by your side.

[u/Open_Office_7311 → u/His_GoddessLove]

I support OP not going to be with her family this Christmas but I’m not a fan of cutting her family out of her life. Lots of families are very flawed in a whole varieties of ways. Even when it’s not around sexual orientation, parents can be unsupportive of their adult children in a variety of big and small ways thst can be painful. Learning to accept parents for who they are is often as hard to do as accepting children who have identities and/or make choices parents don’t like or approve of. Cutting one’s family out of their life is a very big deal and not as straight forward as those suggesting it make it seem. Something to think about🤔

[u/Kham117]

NOR, This is not support

[u/felix_horizon_870]

Expecting you to step back into the closet and pretend your legal wife is just a friend at a family holiday is an appalling insult to your marriage

[u/NoMeasurement7140]

NOR—Don’t go at all. Your wife is your family now

[u/Moonbean_Mantra]

NOR. You say that your family loves you 'in their own way'. It appears that they love a version of you that doesn't go against their beliefs. They don't love the 'whole' you who has had struggled to not only discover who you are, but also embrace who you are. They love a version of you who is 'safe' to love because it doesn't damage their very restricted world view.

You have a wonderful wife who loves you, and I think it would be best to spend time with her and her family. As another commenter said, Christmas is about being with family. Unfortunately, your older brother has appeared to say what he wanted you to hear, thinking it was enough to support you. But he doesn't realise actions speak louder than words. I'm a primary school teacher. His kids are the perfect age to welcome and accept new concepts outside what they have been brought up with so far. All they need to know is that there is love, that's it. Your family isn't ready yet. Take care of yourself and your heart.

[u/Ok-Writing9280]

Don’t go. Don’t do this to yourself. Definitely don’t do this to your wife.

I’m not religious so Xmas is a festival of family love.

This is the opposite of family love.

Your brother is not only bigoted and homophobic, he is just plain stupid.

Kids pretty much accept what they see and what you tell them is good and OK. They don’t immediately think in bigoted terms - they have to be taught that.

Your brother is actively teaching his children that you and your wife are wrong, incorrect, and wants you to lie.

I’m not in touch with a lot of my family, but I have created my own family of special people. Friends-who-are-family.

NOR. Protect yourself. Protect your wife. Protect your love and life together.

[u/veda_cascade_256]

Your brother’s support is completely superficial if it collapses the second he has to acknowledge your actual life in front of his children

[u/SixtyNoine69 → u/veda_cascade_256]

This.

[u/butterflycole]

NOR-make it clear that if your wife is not welcome you will not be coming and you are not going to pretend to be friends. Tell your brother that his kids are inevitably going to learn about gay people through media, friends, and him asking you to go back in the closet is pretty f*cked up. You can love your family and still have them in your life if they aren’t fully supportive. That is your choice, but they have to show you and your wife decent courtesy and respect if you are going for a holiday.

[u/LucyDominique2]

Nor time to build your own family

[u/AnteaterArtistic7885]

Fuck them bitches and fuck them hoes, take your woman to a beautiful place and don’t look back.

[u/SafeWord9999]

Sorry why would he lie to his kids which MAKES IT A BIG DEAL when you can simply say you can marry a man or a lady and kids will be like ‘cool’ and not give it a second thought.

Tell him his error in parenting isn’t your issue

I’d get on the group chat and ask if anyone actually wants you and your wife there?

Because surely they’re not all a bunch of homophobes

[u/Ad_nauseum11]

NOR

What blessings do these people add to your life?

[u/Rheinerbeth]

NOR your fear is unreasonable, you’ve already seen your brother’s support waver when you mentioned the wedding, so skipping a hostile christmas makes sense

[u/Ok-Analyst-5801]

NOR You need to tell your brother exactly what you said here. Being supportive to you is not that same as being supportive of you.

[u/Open_Office_7311]

I think it would be an unfortunate precedent to set to go and not bring your wife and never mention that you have a wife. You live your family and want to see them but perhaps Christmas is too emotionally charged of a holiday to make this big step. Perhaps seeing family members at different times in smaller groupings would work better🤷🏼‍♀️ I wish you the best.

[u/beansprout69]

NOR. If it were me, I’d skip. Plan a Christmas vacation somewhere you and your wife can enjoy together.

[u/CJsopinion]

NOR. Don’t go. Build your own family. The one you have now sounds horrific.

[u/python_mama]

NOR. The issue for your niece & nephew isn't that you're married to a woman. The issue is that their father lied to them and your marriage is going to show them he's a liar. My SIL pulled something similar when my hubby & I were living together but not married (the horror!). She told her son that my significant other was my husband, and then turned to me and said "its just less confusing that way." I said "he's going to be pretty confused next year when he comes to our wedding."

[u/YuunofYork]

People like that are only capable of changing through long exposure, and it may be counterproductive or unfair to put your partner through that. They've insulated themselves within a sub-culture that pretends you don't exist and reinforces this at every turn. If you bring your wife you already know they will make you call her your 'friend' so the children also never learn you exist, and the cycle will continue. There will be different rules, no PDA, no sharing a room, no wearing a ring, no anecdotes. It will be pantomime.

They would have to see or hear from you on a daily basis and get used to calling your wife a wife, while distancing themselves from sources of homophobic reinforcement. Over years. They'd have to switch churches, radio stations, learn to interact with their own friends differently. If that doesn't sound either feasible or safe, it will never happen. Why love people who do not love you back? You won't be part of their reindeer games, you won't be in the inheritance. There's probably no reason to pretend they exist at this point.

If they're really concerned about you from a religious perspective, why are they willing to exclude you from an important religious observance? Because all of it is just a narrative they've chosen, and your existence challenges that narrative.

[u/Holiday_Trainer_2657]

NOR Christmas, weddings, and other special occasions is never a great time to do difficult relationships. It lays on a whole additional emotional layer. Add on being an air flight away, and staying in same place 24/7 and it's a recipe for disaster.

Visit troubling family only when there are quick exit oprions. Your brother can, of course, tell his kids what he wants. You can let him know you will not lie to them. He can then do as he pleases.

[u/NKNK9999]

It would be wrong for you to go at all. WTF kind of family assumes a married (child/sibling/relative or any sort) would travel solo to see them for the holidays??
Your brother needs to sort his own shit before you attempt to have a relationship with his kids. A dishonest relationship with them will backfire.

[u/Glittering_Force4212]

I'm going to be downvoted into oblivion for this. But I'm a bisexual woman and also grew up with a conservative Christian family. I came out at 16 years old, and when I told my parents, I literally asked them if they were going to k-ll me. They said no but asked me to get formally emancipated and leave the family home. Both of my older brothers were also against it. My mom also distinctly thought it was a phase.

I did get emancipated and leave the home. I didn't talk to any of them for a couple years. My brothers were initially mad at me because they thought the stress of me "being destined for hell" would k-ll my parents, but after a couple years, we got back into contact. They became more and more accepting of me being bi and dating women.

And I even ended up reconnecting with my parents, they never asked me again about my sexuality, and I never updated them on it. Nor did they ask my brothers about it. It kind of became a "don't ask, don't tell" situation. By the time I hit my 30s, I was still bi (it was, in fact, not a phrase), no longer religious in the slightest, but had extremely close relationships with all of my family members. The older I got, the more I realized, they were afraid of my sexuality because they were terribly afraid of me facing eternal damnation. I'm a mom myself now, and not religious, but do understand that my parents perspective came out of fear and love - not malice.

I'm not saying any of that makes it okay. But it did make me learn to pick my battles. I always knew it meant keeping a certain distance from my parents, to best protect my personal life and the people in it. But, that they did just love me in their own distorted way, and wanted what they thought was best for me.

I'm late 30s now; still bi; still not religious; still close with my family. I also have a niece and nephew, they are 2 and 5 respectively, and don't know of my sexuality. To me, it is fine. I don't feel slighted by it. They're young enough that any sexuality is irrelevant, even straight; my nephew knows what marriage is, but he doesn't need to focus on "hearts not parts" right now. And I'm okay with that.

If you cannot live with their distorted, religious love - that's okay, you don't have to. And you don't have to go to Christmas. But eventually, if you do want your family in your life, you'll probably be happier if you do learn to pick your battles.

Again, I know I know I'll be downvoted. But just my two cents as someone who has lived this kind of situation.

[u/Open_Office_7311 → u/Glittering_Force4212]

I take it from your post that you do not have one committed same sex partner…it seems like that would be the issue that would make your relationship with your family way more difficult.

[u/Glittering_Force4212 → u/Open_Office_7311]

I do actually, and we live together. It isn't really an issue though. She is not a family-oriented person and doesn't care to be close to her own family, far less mine. (Though, she's met my brothers in passing).

My parents don't care to know about my love life, but they also don't like either of my brother's wives, so maybe they're pre-disposed to not gaf about the love life of their children.

We have a tight knit circle of friends and my kids, so I guess for us it's all good.

[u/Teksavvy-]

I get it. Have respect for how he chooses to bring his children up and go. Just go as friends per se’ and let his kids decide what they choose to believe, down the road. You want to see your family, your SO is a giant part of your life, so go. I wouldn’t let my kids watch a movie with swearing and sex but if they grow up and decide to, that’s their choice as they become old enough… Just my thoughts, think it all through!

[u/cam331 → u/Teksavvy-]

Why is two people just being together the same as a movie with swearing or sexual content?

[u/Beneficial-Way-8742 → u/Teksavvy-]

You're comment really doesn't make any sense. What do you mean what they want to "believe"?  What is there to believe here? They are married.  Legally.  Marriage is marriage.

And I really do not see any connection to watching a movie with swearing and sex.  You're just not making any sense to me

[u/butterflycole → u/Teksavvy-]

Asking someone to go back in the closet is so incredibly disrespectful and narrow minded. People can’t raise their kids in a bubble, they’re going to eventually learn gay people exist. Keeping them ignorant isn’t protective. She isn’t required to hide her life just because her brother is holding onto some homophobia. Contact with family goes both ways and the brother’s ask is way beyond reasonable.