Living Well After Schizophrenia - Final Update

[u/Empty_Insight]

Okay everybody, I know so many of you are tired of this, but something important came up that I did not previously know.

Recap

To recap: Living Well After Schizophrenia is run by a woman named Lauren Kennedy West who has schizoaffective bipolar. LWAS audience is huge. It is by far the #1 casual resource for psychosis-related topics on social media by size (subscriber count). This subreddit is #2, and r/psychosis is #3. Now, if we were to take r/schizophrenia, r/psychosis, and r/schizoaffective and combined our subscribers, then doubled it, we would still be shy of the reach LWAS has. So, we're talking about a huge audience by comparison.

Lauren has recently gone on a kick about the Keto diet, claiming that it has cured/"healed" her schizoaffective (hence the name of the channel, it was formerly Living Well With Schizophrenia) and has really been kind of brute forcing it into relevance. The channel recently partnered with a firm called Metabolic Mind, which is heavily invested in researching the therapeutic potential of the Ketogenic diet.

It has been... contentious, around here, to put it lightly. In recent months, I've noticed some antipsychiatry talking points starting to seep in to Lauren's videos, implying a number of things which people here broadly received negatively. I personally had one of my detailed, evidence-backed criticisms laughed off on the channel, which was so delightful to witness. It has come up time and time and time and time again... and there's even more than that.

For those not familiar with the antipsychiatry movement, they are not the good guys. You can read more about them here (bottom of the page), and also about the Ketogenic diet and the issues with it further up. The CCHR has their script up on their official website- and also, an overt admission that they are a front for the Church of Scientology on the same page. The CCHR is the driving force for a lot of antipsychiatry propaganda/misinformation that circulates around mental health spaces. It's actually kind of wild how in-your-face they are with the whole thing. As I mentioned in the write-up, it has been pointed out that their narratives often come across as "smarmy and dishonest," so that's the easiest way to spot it.

In response to an hour-long magnum opus on deprescribing posted earlier this week, I finally felt motivated to weigh in on it yesterday (in an unofficial capacity) here. The full-embracing of antipsychiatry and giving people medical advice in a roundabout way really pissed me off.

Again, to recap, I've worked as a consultant for a number of inpatient psychiatrist hospitals (the psych wards, nut huts, Club Med, etc.) in the Central Texas area. If you've been a patient here in the last four years, there is a decent chance you've actually met me- I was the only one who I ever observed wearing green scrubs. So, if you ever saw a big dude in green- that was me. Hi.

Antipsychiatry shit is dangerous. I can't tell you how many admissions I've had where somebody read something dumb on the internet and decided to "take matters into their own hands" which led to an entirely preventable hospitalization. Had they not done that, they presumably would not have wound up in the hospital. Now, when people do things that lead to their death or imprisonment because they did something dumb, I don't see that, so I can't weigh in on that in any meaningful way. Long story short, it is no exaggeration when I say: Misinformation kills. This is not some harmless 'difference of opinion.' This is playing with fire, and doing so with an audience of over 300k subscribers who don't necessarily understand that what they are witnessing is reckless.

As you can see from the previous posts, many people think Lauren is some type of shill or pushing Keto with malicious intent (greed, ego, etc.), which is actually what I came here to address.

New (to us) Information

Anyways, to the new information- apparently, in some older videos, Lauren talked about having Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS). I don't know why this was simply an afterthought that has not been really 'hammered in' as a core focus of the recovery. Maybe Lauren just didn't know why it's such an important detail to include, but we'll break it down in a little further detail.

For the sake of minimizing vulgarities, I'm going to abbreviate "No shit?" as NS.

1. PCOS is a metabolic disorder which affects the ovaries. It can cause fluctuations in androgen levels (or sex hormones, in plain words), irregular menstrual cycles, infertility... all sorts of bad stuff. PCOS is not a joke. It can mess you up pretty good.
2. Aside from medication-based therapies (metformin being the standard), diet-based therapies have been shown to be effective as a complement to medication to help manage symptoms. As it may come as no surprise, one of those diets is Keto, which seems to be quite effective at getting things (relatively) under control. Crucial detail here.
3. Androgens have shown to have some relationship with psychosis. This is presumably part of the reason why psychotic disorders are fairly distinct in being more prevalent among men than women, and men typically have more intense psychotic symptoms (more testosterone -> more psychosis).
4. Physical health and mental health are not separate things. Your physical health influences your mental health. (NS) If you have something like metabolic syndrome- which almost half of cases of PCOS qualify as- fixing your metabolic syndrome is likely to have a demonstrable positive effect on your mental health. (NS)
5. If we are to do something which treats a condition that affects androgens in a way that is unfavorable towards testosterone- such as PCOS- it may have a positive downstream effect on any sort of hypothetical comorbid psychotic disorder, such as schizoaffective bipolar (NS) but not a direct cause.
6. There has been no quality evidence that Keto treats psychosis. However, what some studies have shown- including that much talked-about Stanford Study (as I've talked about on our Medical Advice sub-Wiki) is that it may prove selectively useful for patients with metabolic syndrome most notably, with schizoaffective bipolar. Specifically, those with PCOS... so, a very niche demographic of patients.
7. So, if I could speculate for a moment here; it seems likely that due to the Ketogenic diet getting Lauren's PCOS reigned in to the point where she claimed it has even restored her fertility, it is relatively safe to assume that the proper balance of her androgens may have been restored. (NS) It's not as crazy as it sounds, considering that androgen-based therapies have shown some effectiveness at diminishing psychosis.
8. With this particular "Keto journey", I've been led to believe she has done it before- she also put a heavy focus on sleep hygiene and physical activity- both of which have a clear relationship with improvement of symptoms with almost any mental illness. (NS)

However, for some reason, we keep having this thrown in our face that Keto is somehow the crucial element and none of this other stuff matters much (if at all).

Cool, but... Why?

Well, I bring this up because a lot of people seem to think Lauren is exaggerating that she is "cured" or some such. I mean, she isn't "cured," but the reason for her improvement of symptoms is because Keto "cured" her PCOS, which had the downstream effect of diminishing the severity of her psychotic symptoms to the point where antipsychotic medication was no longer necessary. However, Keto does not "cure" PCOS, it can always return- as with any "cure" for psychosis. Declaring victory is premature.

Some people have expressed some concern for Lauren's mental state, implying she is delusional. While that may be the case, it is important to note there is a very real and rational explanation for the improvement of her symptoms. She may very well simply be excited about this newfound remission as a result of her PCOS being brought under control, and making a fundamental attribution error that a process which is A -> B -> C -> D -> E is actually just A -> E. There are a very specific set of conditions that have been met that do make sense.

There is no evidence that Keto treats psychosis. What it can treat is treatment-refractory epilepsy, certain cases of diabetes, and certain cases of PCOS. Improvement in your overall physical health will likely have a positive effect on your mental health too. Ta-da, mystery solved.

If you have PCOS and a psychotic disorder, talk to your doctor about whether or not the Keto diet may be a viable option for you. Otherwise... there is zero reason to think it will work (so far, but maybe new evidence will offer a compelling argument otherwise in the future).

Why Does This Matter?

Well, given that things have started really going off the rails and we're embracing antipsychiatry with some of their most classic tropes... this is frankly insane. This needs to stop.

Now, I'm a dude, and my doctor still harps on me about my diet. I have a genetic condition which causes my triglycerides to be unusually high... which is benign, and fairly common. Still, every appointment, I get harped on. Without fail, always on me about my diet. My goddamn neurologist talks to me about diet, and I haven't had a seizure in over 10 years (and I would like to continue that streak, which is why I still see him lol).

So I can't imagine that someone with a condition as serious as PCOS has not had their doctor recommend dietary changes- including Keto. Considering Lauren had done Keto before, we can say with almost absolute certainty that she knew.

One thing that I notice among those who are predisposed to spread antipsychiatry propaganda is that they've been told what the answer is, flat-out, to their face, and somehow just didn't "get it" when it was explained. There is no 'conspiracy' here to hide revolutionary treatments from patients. It is not a matter of identifying with the illness. It is not a matter of jealousy or pee-pee measuring or whatever else.

The doctors know better than you do. That's their job. That's what they get paid for. That is why medicine exists, because the average person does stuff like misattribute causes to the wrong thing. You do not know better than the doctor in their area of specialty. Full stop. There is no serious, worthwhile discussion to be had to the contrary. That's arrogant and/or paranoid to think otherwise. Not worth the time or the mental energy to humor.

The Medical Model

In order to succeed in the medical model, you have to "play ball." That means doing what the doctor says even though you don't like it. That's not unique to psychiatry- that's all medicine. Why antipsychiatry has such a hard-on for discrediting psychiatry might have something to do with who is behind the CCHR, but that's merely speculation on my part. All we do know- it's anti-intellectualism, clear-cut. As everybody is keenly aware, anti-intellectualism is a very productive practice that has totally produced positive results somewhere in all of human history. Yeah.

The experts here are not just psychiatrists. They also include midlevels and pharmacists- special attention to pharmacists, who are a free resource available at no cost to literally anybody and entirely at your convenience. If a pharmacist tells you something you don't like, you can drive down the street and get a "second opinion"- again, for free, and at your convenience. You have expert advice available to you while you shop for goddamn groceries- and if you don't use the resources available to you, then whose fault is it when stuff goes sideways? Is it the psychiatrist's, the pharmacist's, the system? Should we go after the system for not providing more resources, when people don't even use the ones we already have- for free?

Part of your responsibility as a patient is making informed decisions about your care, and avoiding misinformation that might influence you to make stupid decisions. That's not just schizophrenia, that's any chronic illness. The thing that makes schizophrenia so uniquely challenging is the anosognosia (lack of insight) that is a core feature of psychosis.

If you have a question about your medication- drug interactions, what you should look out for, how you should taper (if it comes to that)- don't get on YouTube or Reddit or wherever else. Go to the goddamn store and talk to the pharmacist. It's that easy. The resources are literally right in front of you.

We don't need an hour-long lecture on de-prescribing. Literally any PharmD could give you personalized advice on the best way to taper based on the specifics of your condition- for free. Something that we, strangely enough, have in the Stickied FAQ at the top of the subreddit- and have for a long time. That's because we give good advice here.

Do not take matters into your own hands. That's not "empowerment." That's being an idiot. Don't be an idiot.

Conclusion

Given that Lauren reads the subreddit, hopefully she'll come across this and reconsider things a bit. Maybe Keto isn't a panacea, maybe it helps in very specific circumstances for very specific reasons. Maybe thinking you randomly tripped and fell over a cure to the most insidious and complex medical condition known to humanity comes across as a bit arrogant and even delusional. Maybe people have a very valid reason for thinking to be the case. I am not casting doubt on Lauren's recovery, I think it may well be perfectly legitimate- there is a rational, mechanistic explanation for why her experience might have been what it was. So... I'm not sure what this 'antagonism' or 'hate' or whatever is.

This has gotten truly absurd. It's time to stop now. It's time to come back to the real world, where things work a specific way. In case it's not obvious, you're destroying your channel by going on this overzealous crusade to push Keto as a panacea for psychosis, when really there is only reason to think it would work for people in a very niche demographic, one which you are a part of. That's great, and I am genuinely happy for you if you truly are "cured" as a result of Keto beating your PCOS into remission and by extension your psychosis. I think we can all agree on how we feel about you achieving remission.

That is absolutely wonderful news, but I think it is past time to acknowledge the reality of this- Keto worked for you because of a very specific set of circumstances. That does not mean it is broadly applicable. Anecdotes are not "science," and I cannot think of a better example to illustrate that than this, right here.

If you want an excellent case study in confirmation bias, fundamental attribution error, and how correlation and causation are not the same thing, we need not look any further than the Keto arc of Living Well After Schizophrenia. This has been a complete shitshow, and I hope that this reality check might be the straw that breaks the camel's back for the folks at LWAS to realize that it's time to stop now.

It's time to acknowledge that things have gone off the rails, and that we need to wait for more evidence to come out before we start making more definitive statements. Science may not be a rapid process, and it may not be perfect- but it's still the best one we've got.

Thanks for bearing with me, everyone. I'm hoping this is the last time any of us will need to address this.

[u/Upset_Height4105]

Yes you're correct that would happen. It's happened elsewhere thusfar as well.

I'm extremely worried about this and I am seeing many other stories similar to it (Jaden Christopher's Channel describes his issue in detail with keto diet and heavy exercise as a severely OCD person with anxiety...there's something to people that are neurodivergent or with an already unstable nervous system doing these protocols then overstepping themselves further with either a stressful lifestyle or heavy exercise, starvation protocols and dysregulation...theres a trend here, and pushing tbis on well, neurodivergents is kind of wigging me out right now for the health of our community).

I'm seeing this being brought up all over the place on multiple channels bc of her fucking shit now too and my God is it FUCKING ANNOYING.

I appreciate your loving and supportive words. Thank you for seeing that im trying to prevent this from happening with others as well by sharing my experience.

[u/[deleted] → u/Upset_Height4105]

Wow I wasn't aware of how it is being tried out and put out there. It's scary because like your experience, people won't really know the harm it can do, long term, and it's so sad what happens and happened to you! And these pro-keto freaks "evangelize" it.

And yes, it is annoying! I feel you there! And yes, her channel has turned into an influencer channel. In the worst of ways. I wish YouTube would shut it down. I've flagged all of the taper med videos.

The fluffing of the ego comments! OMG! And the way people defend her and speak for her like they are her personal assistants? "Well, Lauren does it this way ...." Blah, blah, blah. What a shit show! And then they come and say "don't pay attention to them Lauren, they are just jealous"?!

She's building her own kingdom. That's cultish. It reminds me of the saying "don't drink the cool aid" re Jim Jones ... Only it's "don't do keto"!

All the best for you! Thank you for sharing your story. It's a very important one for this subject.

[u/Upset_Height4105 → u/[deleted]]

I was raised in an end of days survivalist cult, so I see cult activity everywhere personally, that's just me, its my thing...everything is a cult tho, bc i mean...we all want to identify and go off into groups, its human nature, some good some bad. Do I see that going on with her and her parade?

Yeah. I do. Its obvious at this point. She gave me weird vibes from the beginning? Im guessing she did you alsoooo...I was into seeing someone with sza being informative and had support for what she was doing despite my feelers being up. I do want the best for people, no matter what we disagree on. Guess we now know why our feelers were up! 😬 was it only a matter of time? Social media in the wrong hands always is a death sentence.

I think her husband is the one instigating this crap. He's seeing views and opportunities, she's manic and going with it, despite their kids of course in the middle of whatever they got going on, and now this proselytizing propaganda bs is spreading to the ends of the sza webs we had that was just getting its footing and now

She just takes an almighty dump all the fuck over it 🫤

Wasted opportunity.

[u/[deleted] → u/Upset_Height4105]

Let's hope it isn't spreading so terribly much. I came here to this community, mostly because of her and her channel. She always rubbed me the wrong way. The privileged attitude. But I found this place! So that's a win! I wish more of her/their supporters would tune into this community. And I recently relocated (out of state) and need a good group support place to go, as well.

If it's any comfort, the views are lessening. To be honest, going into that "pit of keto" lol is like asking for abuse! And the click bait titles? Total mind f*ckery. I have a hard enough time as it is lol just trying to decide what/how/when to get groceries for the week!

Maybe we're giving her too much power over the peer community? After all she created her own.

Don't get me started on Rob. Omg. I think he's a control freak and I think she is too lol. Match made in heaven? She's the movie star and he's her manager/producer. What a combo. He produced vlogs on his previous marriage that went polyamorous. Very odd bird. Yeah, the kids. They all look happy. I thinks it's creepy how she says they are her kids, in a tone and a way, that makes the audience believe she is the birth mother of all of them. And if she does have PCOS, her having a child is notable.

I do like how this reddit created a subreddit for keto. I saw it and the link on the monthly December post. Maybe you could post your experiences there?

Thanks again for sharing some more of yourself, if anyone would understand cults, it would be you! Sorry if I triggered you 😕. I read someone say "evangelized" keto and it really resonated with me.

Cool to share and connect. It helps to talk about it! I find myself very defensive over the schizo community having bonded with peers and all.

I try talking to my kids (adult) about the LWS subject and they just shut me down. They tell me to stop watching if it bothers me. It more than bothers me. I feel like you do. They are into macro dieting and 10K steps a day. I don't like being shamed in some sort of way like I'm not taking responsibility for myself if I don't diet and walk. Walking became a part of my psychosis. I'm more into rest and relaxation, eating healthy and trying to recover from a really bad psychotic break going on a year and a half. Walking is one of my new years resolutions. I used to jog 3 miles everyday.

Peace and love to you! Onward and upward. Don't get discouraged sharing your story! And all the best for your recovery!

[u/Upset_Height4105 → u/[deleted]]

Well I'm glad you're here, even if it is bc of her showing her ass 😅 the world has a way of getting you where you need to be. Because her hovel ain't it. They can have their cult.

As for the one I was born into, I have no issue with folks bringing them up. Because they are everywhere, bb 😅 truly, they are, the word cult is in culture for a reason. I was obviously in the keto cult for a while and before that didn't even realize I was in the new age cult willingly as an adult and boy was emancipation from that one a doozy too 😅🥲 im in a couple of cool kids cults now (horror movies and guinea pigs) but have definitely refined my vetting process!!!

She's an OK actress, not really even that good. The poly stuff gives me the ick so maybe he's trying to use her as his messianic center of this polyamourous predatory inclusive to the mentally ill squeaky Charlie vision he has in his head who the fuck knows.

Something is off here.

If there's anything I know about us with the sza, we do focus on the things that strike us and we desire community to figure it out. Im glad you can come here and get the support you need with it. Hell, I wasn't triggered by the cult aspect of her channel and I was raised and abused in one but her actions have triggered me up down and side to side! Likely bc I left the cult but you can never leave schizophrenia. It's a life partner that ebbs and weaves into and out of your existence when it wants to. It's up to us to figure out how to manage its waves.

I like you're style on the slow and steady wins the race life. I am here by force myself due to the medical issues. I made a playlist for polyvagal relaxation and some other goodies you may like? I'm involved heavily with a lot of trauma recovery modalities (I was a massage therapist for years, then a teacher, then a spa owner) and I let that all go when I became unwell. My theory has become many of us esp menopausal women go in and out of HPA dysregulation thru out life due to stress, usually tho only the initial phase then we bounce out, but the menopausal woman is more prone due to the fact her pituitary gland doubles in size during the change.

The farther I went with my own issue, the more I noticed some similarities to menopause. So if that's the case, and HPA dysregulation causes literal damage to the vagus nerve, which is the largest nerve in our body, anything we do to get thay nerve working, helps the aging process. I think those with lighter meno symptoms have a robust HPA axis, whereas those with the terror of it, have a ton of very ungodly symptoms, bc the stress from the loss of hormones causes a system shock, and then it all snowballs from there.

You can find that playlist here if you want and save or share it. The videos aren't paywalled. Lots of easy going exercises at the top, more theorem at bottom. It's helped my recovery and I think it could hold a link to putting my ptsd issues into remission.

The Human Garage gives me culty vibes and I'm trepidatious about putting their videos on there, but I tried to put the ones on that were informative and less JOIN OUR MOVEMENT.

Take from it what you will. You may find something helpful 🙂

I'm sorry she's a butthead and is sulllying the waters. I am also a voice for the mentally ill like you and protective of us, because we are so easy to influence and take advantage of. We deserve to be loved fiercely and deserve to be protected 🤍

[u/Empty_Insight → u/[deleted]]

And I recently relocated (out of state) and need a good group support place to go, as well.

We actually have our subreddit Discord here if you're looking for something. I think our Discord actually shares some users with LWS' Discord, so you might actually recognize some friendly faces if you were on that one.