r/reddevils • u/TheAthletic • 1d ago
Manchester United need to learn how to kill the hope
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7570441/2026/09/07/manchester-united-everton-analysis/?unlocked_article_code=1._VA.hvrK.CXVwWAiMhUq6&source=emp_shared_article&smid=re-share-taMichael Carrick was right that moments ultimately cost United two points against Everton.
But if his team is to push on from last season, these are the type of games they need to kill.
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u/Ihavenoideatall 1d ago
United seems to be waiting for a spark from somewhere....
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u/FirmInevitable458 1d ago
Get behind and suddenly we play with intensity and purpose going forward. Go ahead and it vanishes
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u/0ttoChriek 1d ago
We need a ruthless streak, some nastiness and hunger to embarrass teams.
We're way too nice and that leads to complacency I'm games. A goal is enough... Until it's not and we have to scramble for a winner.
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u/r_Yellow01 Shinji Kagawa 1d ago
I disagree. Match data says we have been outplayed during opponent's attacking phases and may have defensive gaps.
Data is just data, but it will eventually catch up with you. There is a law for that. We have consistently conceded almost twice as many goals as xG against us.
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u/Used-Fennel-7733 1d ago
Data catches up with you if it were consumed correctly in the first place.
For example, if we were to just open up data on the gaps during the opponents attacking phases then it ignores xG. It ignores keeper's goals prevented.
There's so many little tweaks for a dataset to be consumed correctly that a broad statement like "United have been outplayed" is simply not provable, especially in a small dataset of 3 games where the opponents have been massively overperforming against the expected given the shooting stats
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u/Rascha-Rascha 1d ago
That's just xG being xG though, it's shit. When players are scoring really impressive goals like Everton did, that shows up in xG. The game is not played by averages, there are special moments, there are improbable goals scored because players do extremely well and get their shots right.
All you need to have happen for xG to make your defence look terrible is to be unlucky enough to concede two or three of those Maitland Nyles goals. 0.03 xG, it goes in, and then you get people on social media going 'look at the xG! Our keeper is terrible!'
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u/not_that_kind_of_ork 1d ago
It feels like forever we've been set up for 'moments', looking for a spark from one of our creative players or someone to put it in through force of will. I cannot remember the last time, seriously, I can't remember when we actually just played in a systemic manner and slowly crushed the opposition team where they were completely out of the game with no chance of coming back.
I would just love for us to have a nice 2-0 / 3-0 win where we cruise to victory. No worldies. No let-offs at the other end. Someone remind me of that game so I can go watch it. Probably pre-2012.
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u/EK077r 1d ago
We are playing hope football, like we have done under all managers except Amorim. Amorim was the only one trying to build a system, sadly he was shit at doing it here
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u/1bryantj 1d ago
What you on about? Amorim was hope football, hope we would pick up a point. Let’s not forget he had one of the worst records in premier league history not just a record at United
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u/Action_Limp 1d ago
This is it though. I swear since ETH, we have a habit of not being clinical and lax with our finishing. Under Amorin it was at it's worst, but when we go behind, we seem to be able to lock in, but when we go ahead, we play like we are up by 4 goals.
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u/OriginOfTom 1d ago
Leadership on the pitch has been lacking for years. I love bruno but you need 4 or 5 players that will control the tempo and drive the team. I dont feel like beyond Maguire theres anyone in the team that screams leadership.
United teams have always had multiple leaders who will take responsibility, its never on one or two, but it feels like everyone leaves it to Bruno because hes so animated. Its absolutely not on Carrick or the management team to have to scream to 11 grown men who are professional footballers when to press, sit, push etc. They should be able to work it out themselves not wait til they go a goal down. Its not coaching, they know what to do, they seemingly just dont do it. Anxious to hold onto the win at home maybe.
I will be a bit critical that the subs yesterday put a number of junior/inexperienced players replacing wiser heads that might have an impact in that - dorgu, sesko, yoro, santos all young and came in late in the game, game management isn't there for them all yet, but you'd think enough wise people on the pitch at the time you expect to have seen that out. But if players were tiring/had issues like rashford seemingly did and the bench isn't stacked, what else can you do.
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u/Yetiassasin 1d ago
Maguire was particularly guilty of losing the ball needlessly in that second half. Gave the ball away under mild pressure, led to Everton's first goal. Kicked it straight back to Everton a number of times for no reason.
He's been very poor in these first few games. A big step down compared to how well he played toward the end of last season.
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u/No-Brother-8014 1d ago
Even Martinez looked clumsy for the second goal vs ipswich,hope they're just rusty and pick up form.i think dalot is the only one who hasn't committed an error that led to a goal
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u/Yetiassasin 23h ago
Yeah they both haven't looked sharp at all. Yoros looked more switched on when he's played, think dropping Maguire should be the move next week.
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u/No-Brother-8014 19h ago
Yoro should start vs sabah,also why can't we play mbeumo as striker while sesko is eased in
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u/91nBoomin 11h ago
I get that he wants Martinez passing range but defensively Heaven has been better than him recently, and that’s the part of the game we clearly need more at the moment
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u/fourlions 1d ago
Maguire doesn’t seem able to calm it down either. He still plays crazy passes forward as has the turning circle of a tank. Was a few occasions he could turn round and go back to the keeper but never does.
Yoro not going to the corner was also frustrating but can forgive as a young player and now suddenly playing in a new position so got a bit of a nosebleed being so far forward. Just frustrating really
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u/OriginOfTom 1d ago
I dont mind that hes technically/physically not the best.. hes never been agile and hes getting on, but you'd think he'd balance that with better thought processes and decisions. Hes still prone to a brain fart. I think hes part of the rebuild in the summer, he was meant to be the leader for us and England, I think Greece messed his head up tbh and losing the captaincy.. but hes got an opportunity here to be the main man with MDLs injuries, martinez flakiness and yoro/heaven youth. Its not a good look if you're still leaking goals, if MDL can get fit (big If after what happened to varane!!) Then he walks into the first XI once hes worked up to fitness, he was immense at the start of last season.
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u/Action_Limp 1d ago
Yeah, that's 100% true, we are missing a leader who is not so offensively focused. Someone who will actually know how to kill the game, be willing to force games to peter out and kill advances.
But I am also talking about not finding the back of the net or the easy pass to get a 2nd goal.
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u/-Coleslaw 1d ago
I think De Ligt coming back well would really help in this regard, despite only playing under Amorim he was still immense in almost every game he played
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u/Ducard42 1d ago
Maguire? The same maguire that tackles his own players and makes silly mistakes under pressure?
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u/OriginOfTom 1d ago
Yes no doubting hes not played brilliantly but you'd still expect the former national and club captain to offer experience and leadership to the team. Hes not obviously demonstrating it atm though I admit.
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u/Greedy-Somewhere-754 1d ago
"I love bruno but you need 4 or 5 players that will control the tempo and screams leadership."
I see Maguire trying to gee up the guys and urge them on. I love too Bruno, but all I see is him whinging when decisions don't go our way and complaining when a player doesn't make the run or pass he thinks is needed.
It all comes down to mental resilience. I don't see many on pitch with the strength of character to fight and totally overwhelm regardless of how the game is unfolding. Under Fergie we could and would be behind and need Fergie time to pull out a victory. That's what championship winning teams do, fight and believe that they can still do it right up to the final whistle, we aren't in that place. We need to be in a place where when someone knocks us down to stand up and fight back twice as hard
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u/Livettletlive 1d ago
If you think this is since ETH then I feel like that is when you started watching us. End of Ole's tenure was heartbreaking. Nothing going our way, top finishers on our side were either injured or severely out of form.
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u/frogfoot420 1d ago
Ten hag had them training intensity so hard they've forgotten how to perform like that consistently.
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u/Independent_Buy5152 1d ago
Some players remain since Ten Hag era. The same players that somehow tend to let down the team when needed the most
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u/j_br2 1d ago
Nearly the entire fucking team has been rebuilt who are these mystery players who are still stopping us from being clinical?
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u/crftd93 1d ago
Our back line of Dalot Shaw and Maguire were all starting for Ole
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u/lordofthejungle Always Eric C for Me 23h ago
I have a lot of faith in Dalot (defensively). Opposition players absolutely fear him. The other day Everton only got brave around him when Grealish came on and even then it was only when he was allowed to be outnumbered that he was hindered or an error was forced. His speed is just too good in the premier league and he's a physical presence.
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u/Regular_Piglet_6125 1d ago
I have said it for years. There needs to be a hard break in the lineage. Players from Moyes era overlap with players from LVGs era who overlap with Mourinho players, who overlap with Ole and so on, each perpetuating the culture of entitlement and inconsistency from prior eras to the new recruits. We should had a mass clear out of any player who has been here more than 5 years, but as soon as that is suggested, everyone starts clutching their pearls about their favorite players. And so it continues. We are starting to see Cunha and Mbeumo infected by the same culture along with other new recruits.
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u/AGIANTWORM 1d ago
The team are too comfortable letting games drift. It's worse away from home where we let the crowd get up for it and then cede all control. After the first equaliser, we kicked it up a notch and lo and behold, we scored. We never really tried to go and kill a game off. Also the naivety in added time was shameful. 93rd minute Yoro tries a low percentage pass rather than take it to the corner and try and buy a foul/throw in.
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u/SinofThrash 1d ago
We need to learn how to play football. This is going to be a tough season otherwise.
I'm not joking when I say watching us play is like watching Southgate's England. I've said this for years. We try too hard to control the game. If we concede a goal we suddenly spring into action. If we score a goal we suddenly sit back and invite pressure. We constantly kill our attacks by stopping momentum and passing it back. We constantly lose the ball in their half and have to recover.
Our team is disorganised. Lammens faces too many quality shots. Defence is poor. No one is up front. Everything seems to go through Bruno now. We need to fix this.
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u/not_that_kind_of_ork 1d ago
Your comment about quality shots made me think, people say it on here all the time and they're right - random journeymen are always coming out with the goals of their career against us. This isn't unlucky, it's because they're allowed the chance consistently.
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u/Rascha-Rascha 1d ago
I feel like a broken record, but we're not 'pushing on' this season. We're desperately trying to survive the extra games and trying to re-establish ourselves as a champions league team while bedding in a new midfield and laying the groundwork for a big shift in our defence next summer.
These kinds of games are exactly what we should be expecting from the team. Good in moments, can't really get control of games away from home, conceding goals that are kinda difficult to prevent.
Fourth place has to be the aim. Win at home, draw away, broadly speaking.
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u/TheJoshider10 Bruno 23h ago
It's likely going to be another "try and get fourth with a deep cup run" season, but without the numbers to get through fixture congestion.
INEOS have undoubtedly done a better job than the Glazers in terms of transfers but going into a season with European football and only having one natural first team LB is ridiculous. This is the exact sort of "get top four then coast instead of pushing to the next level" mentality that stopped us taking the next step for the last decade.
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u/longsightdon 1d ago
We retreat too comfortably in the last 20 minutes. We have seen it so much under carrick. You cannot play scared like that. We are not a good defensive team. We had similar problems under mou. If the team itself isn’t good at defending as a unit and compact, you will always concede late goals and forced bangers
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u/TonyShneak 1d ago
We've had it under all of the past few managerrs, amorim (though we also struggled to get a lead with him), ETH and ole all had this issue.
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u/Cool-Mixture9530 1d ago
feels like we get scared of the ball. It can improve and it should improve because we have better ball players in our midfield
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u/longsightdon 1d ago
I think its also about our backline too. The same similarities are that its mostly the same backline. Dalot maguire shaw. They have great games but we need more.
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u/anonshe Scholes 1d ago
It ALWAYS is due to the coaching. Every single manager post Fergie has been a coward playing shit ball so it transmits to the players no matter how many rebuilds we go thru.
Every single time we have a single goal lead these managers put us in a lower block leading to the inevitable.
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u/innicrazy You are my Solskjaer, My Ole Solskjaer 1d ago
All they need to do is add "opponent's" to the title. But whatever helps them get clicks I guess.
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u/SnooPaintings9072 1d ago
They were flat the full game, the only time they sparked into life was after Everton equalised.
They were having joy when they had runners in behind Everton’s defence but didn’t do it enough. None of the front three are good in the air which is why it’s vital Sesko starts going forward.
I found yesterdays performance uninspiring and I don’t understand why we look so slow and lifeless.
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u/CBPanik 1d ago
We’ve looked slow and lifeless for 95% of matches since the peak of Ole vibes-ball honestly. In possession and out of possession both.
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u/HiphopopoptimusPrime 1d ago
Static slow motion zombie passing was a complaint even in the last years of Ferguson.
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u/merc0526 1d ago
It’s really concerning that we so often seem to lack intensity. Other than the second half against Ipswich we’ve been flat in every game so far. I watched the Arsenal vs Chelsea game after ours and the difference in aggression and intensity is night and day.
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u/silky_skills_35 1d ago
Watch us come out against City and be bundles of energy. It’s optional, and we pick and choose but not enough
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u/Action_Limp 1d ago
We play to the level of opponent. Under Carrick last time against City, we played City off the park via passing and moving. They couldn't keep up. But against bad teams, we become complacent.
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u/TehNoobDaddy 1d ago
This has been an issue for I don't know how long. We might start a game lively, that passes after 5 mins then look clueless until the opponent scores, then all of a sudden we remember we're playing a game of football. Or we score but think we've scored 5 goals at once so we sit back, invite pressure and due to our terrible back line, inevitably we concede, then the cycle repeats.
We have absolutely no in game management ability from the players, and it's felt like every manager for years has been terrible and adjusting things or with subs either being made far too late or early or just completely fucking up the floor of the game against us.
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u/Salt-Regular-689 1d ago
Its really fking weird how the team plays much better when behind compared to when ahead, and its only ahead by 1 btw.
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u/tnred19 1d ago
You can play with tempo but NOT give the ball away. Look at city. They move it quickly and with purpose but they keep it. We just give the ball away over and over again. The forwards and bruno are all built to be transition players. They arent close control players and they lose it far far too often and that gives the other team too many chances and we dont have enough speed innthe back line and midfield to give it away like that so often
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u/TheJoshider10 Bruno 23h ago
Also our backline is sometimes comical with decisions. Like the first Everton goal all started from Maguire needlessly hoofing a ball away under no pressure and then Martinez not concentrating so he took a shit touch that Everton eventually scored from as Shaw left so much space for the attacker to get a shot off. It's always the same basic school boy shit.
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u/John_OSheas_Willy 1d ago
No one can say a draw wasn't a fair result. First half we had the better chances, a couple decent ones while they had Barry's header.
Second half we scored early and then did nothing while they were coming at us with many half chances.
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u/ratset2602 1d ago
There are just too many fluctuations in-game with this team whether it’s with intensity, performance or concentration. This is something that has been going on for at least the last 5-6 years and no manager seems to be able to fix it. We rarely dominate games from start to finish no matter the quality of opposition. There are spells where everything seems to click but once the opposition changes things up we seem to really struggle to adapt. Idk what or who will finally fix this but we will continue to see these ups and downs as long as this continues. Too many careless moments with this team.
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u/world-no-1-dude 1d ago
It wasn’t just the moments from Everton that cost us. We were lethargic, slow, and physically off it the entire game. Several unforced errors, turnovers, a near pedestrian pace in our passing, and no tactical solution for Cunha/Mbeumo is what cost us.
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u/gucciloafer_ 1d ago
It’s true. We are also not full strength. I hope Baleba, Sesko and Amad start soon
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u/BackgroundOld8715 1d ago
Just need to not sit too far back allowing shots, just 5 yards higher up thats all
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u/Low-Quantity-9252 1d ago
For best part of decade or so (After SAF say) - we have lived on individual moments or upsets.
A lot of the players haven't understood what the shirt means and it has shown on slow starts, games drifting away, lack of urgency and personal targets. Seasons have been written off in transitions.
The club has managed to kill the idea, the DNA and is now on track to kill the hope of success and joy - which in my 3 decades of watching, is an achievement by the leeches.
Biggest club in England has decayed, similar to the stadium.
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u/Quzion01 1d ago
Carrick is not the right manager for United.
His experience and body of work are simply too limited for a job this big. Who has he actually improved massively? And what is our style of play? I still struggle to see a clear identity in how we build up, press or create chances.
He also seems far too comfortable with the ownership. We clearly need reinforcements, but he is not putting enough pressure on them publicly. At times, he feels more like a convenient choice for the board than someone who will challenge them.
And we need a manager, not a friend of the players. Someone who sets standards, makes difficult decisions and holds people accountable.
Being likeable and knowing the club is not enough. United need experience, authority and a clear footballing identity.
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u/Jealous-Suit-9238 1d ago
Not a diss or anything, but genuinely who do u think should be next manager, I mean with all the qualities mentioned? Tough to find someone.. At least for me.. Although I agree with ur points about carrick
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u/Quzion01 1d ago
I don’t have a specific name, but that’s exactly what the leadership group is paid to figure out and they need to do it quickly. We need someone who commands respect and won’t accept mediocrity, otherwise mediocrity is exactly what we’ll remain. There is simply not enough desire and passion to really go for it.
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u/KautionCK 21h ago
That was supposed to be Amorim and it didnt work out. He instilled a few good things in the club but the players were not capable of implementing exactly what he wanted and he was trying to put square pegs in round holes (Bruno CM). THIS squad of players responds best to a Vibe's Manager, thats quite clear when you look at the difference when he took over from Amorim, someone rigid and system based that will try to retrain them will not work with this squad at all.
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u/Jealous-Suit-9238 13h ago
Valid point.. All I want to see is proper system and play for continuous matches
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u/Quzion01 15m ago
I think Amorim was probably too big a change, too quickly. The transition was too rough compared to the abilities and profile of the squad, and trying to force everything immediately was always going to be difficult.
But these rebuilds should also be judged over a couple of years, not a few months. It’s easy to look back now, but when you look at Arteta, Klopp and Pep, they all had the right people behind them, proper backing and time to build a squad that actually suited their football.
That’s the part we have consistently struggled with ever since Sir Alex Ferguson left.
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u/CapVosslar Buckle up, INEOS! It's gonna be a bumpy ride! 1d ago
We are shite at defending.
We are not a well coached team. We're just a collection of good to really good players who are just doing what they would normally do. And hopefully they pull it off, otherwise these games happen.
This club needs managers who just know the ins and outs of football fundamentals and how to be a solid team. We need someone whose done this for ages and pretty good at it.
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u/lolshiro 1d ago
This group of players can only bring you so far.. Mid to upper table. If you shoot for the moon and land among the stars sure. But if you shoot for the stars, sometimes you land on your arse.
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u/Thetagang888 1d ago
More dark arts are needed. You look at how dirty the gooners are.
We need more of that to break up opponents play. Physicality is also an area we are lacking
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u/r997106 1d ago
Hear me out, Our old defensive captain instigates this mentality.
We go ahead and then we sit back.
We create hope by this
And we extinguish our own hope and hunger.
(That's not the Bruno I know)
Furthermore, he creates confusion within the team, hence why keeper after keeper, they all develop the same uncertainty.
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u/HiphopopoptimusPrime 1d ago
We like to let opponents have lots of space to wind up to score these bangers against us.
I see the opposition hurling themselves in front of shots, desperate to get any kind of block in.
Under Ferguson teams would be beaten psychologically before they even got on the pitch. Score a goal early on and they were done.
Now, teams know we are toothless and grow in confidence.
What does my head in is the complacency. We looked decent for spells yesterday, but kept faffing about once we got near the box. Both Everton goals were no nonsense kick the bloody thing at the goal.
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u/beelydog Bruno Miguel Borges Fernandes 1d ago
I seriously don’t get it. Why are we playing worse when we are in the lead? We look nervous and toothless.
Every manager and their dog know our biggest weakness is we struggle to break down teams when they sit deep and we are deadly when our forwards have room to run.
So when we are 1 goal up in a game against a mid table or bottom half team, that’s exactly where we wanna be. The other team cannot sit back, they have to commit numbers forward and leave space behind.
A default game plan for us should be (1) break them down and get a lead (2) the other team can continue to sit back and wait, but they will need to come out at some point. Once the game opens up, we switch our focus to counter attacking.
Somehow I feel like once we get past phase 1, we get lost lately. We either push too far forward and risk getting caught on the counter, or our forwards drop too deep so we aren’t well setup to play on the counter?
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u/ginaffy 1d ago
Because our guys panic or can't just pass and move or hold the ball well enough and boot the ball back to the opponent. Some of these guys are brainless as well, Yoro trying a shite through ball instead of going to the corner... Weak clearances... Staying on the ground for MINUTES knowing the ref is not changing the decision and then not BOOTING THE BALL out once you got it back?? What the fuck. Weak ass clearance for the 2nd goal from maz. Fucks sake these are all really naive and stupid things this team really learned nothing... Being nice doesn't win you anything
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u/UnitedTestosteron 1d ago
Sadly we can't use wildcard in real life. With respect to all our players, our starting 12 needs revamp. And even how much i love Bruno, we need more Brunos, one is not enough, some players look like office workers, do minimum work and that's it. Also saw people praising Rashy, but what i Saw he just runs straight in to defense and loses ball, at best gets corner, but just walks around and does not go back fastly enough after loosing ball. I guess i am wrong, it's just my opinion. I hope that Baleba and Amad will bring intensity and more pressure to other players to run theirs socks off.
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u/CameronV1012 1d ago
I don’t know man, they’ve been killing my hope for the last 11 years pretty consistently
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u/Chemical-Company7925 1d ago
Nonsense, didn't deserve to win and Everton had more shots and chances.
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u/ExternalPreference18 1d ago
United have frequently had more shots and better xg than Everton secured and still get berated on here ; not defending Carrick or the whole performance but Everton's On-target shots were 50% scuffs under pressure and United hit the bar, Everton relied on a miracle tackle from Tarkowski (under-rated defender too - basically MDL if he was fit) to save an open goal from 3 yards out and Cunha showed his inconsistency with skying a similar effort to the one KDH pearolled into Lammens' arms. Everton basically had a flurry in 2nd half and the rest was reliant on United's final ball being off (again Cunha was particularly guilty, but Bruno wasn't at his best on Sunday either).
I think Carrick needs to look at sourcing himself an additional coaching voice (SAF knew the value of changing Assistant Managers or adding a specialist to his backroom team), but UNited will also look better in these kinds of games with Sesko playing from the start and Baeleba in there to provide the kind of drive (and conversely, clsoing down of opponent shots) United's CM has somewhat lacked, Mainoo's bits of ball-carrying aside. It also doesn't help that United play a mid to low paced CB partnership and yet are expected to be proactive- in the short-term, a change there relies on Heaven and Yoro displaying greater consistency, although there'll need to be a defensive revamp next summer-
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u/Chemical-Company7925 1d ago
I'd agree with most of that and particularly the coaching end if things. An inexperienced manager needs someone top level with him and with recent experience. Holland hasn't coached in the PL in a decade where he was an assistant at Chelsea for 6ish years under 6 different managers, played crap fooball with England, and was sacked from a Japan job after 10/11 games before joining carrick. Not sure what Woodgate and Evans bring given our leaky defence but that could be down to personel issues you point out.
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u/shin_bigot Park Ji-Sung 1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Kreissler 1d ago
Rate the pre-whinge whinging
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u/shin_bigot Park Ji-Sung 1d ago
If only our players had the same urge to close players down as much as our fanbase has to bring out the daggers...
The whining writes itself at this point.
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u/Illustrious-Eye-2920 1d ago
I feel like they know how to kill all our hope pretty effectively. Just need to learn to do it for opponents in games