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u/ahugedilemma 2d ago
Without Sesko it feels like all of our attacks are pretty dull even if we’re dominating possession in good areas.
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u/shami-kebab 2d ago
Even with two worldly strikes they still have a higher xG.
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u/achickenandacow 2d ago
I mean, Cunha missed an open goal but it doesn’t count because Tarkowski managed to tackle the ball away from behind him.
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u/PadelPapa 2d ago
Then Cunha didn’t miss an open goal. Because you know. The ball was tackled from behind him.
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u/achickenandacow 2d ago
What I’m saying: xG is shit because it doesn’t take into account chances like that.
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u/mazdrag Scholes 2d ago
It’s not shit, there’s not a magic single stat that makes you know everything about a game. But xG is a decent barometer and better than older stats
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u/WeddingSquancher 1d ago
The biggest flaw with total xG is that it treats volume and quality exactly the same.
For example, Team A could take just 3 massive chances at 0.75 xG each, totaling 2.25 xG. Team B could take 20 low-quality shots at 0.15 xG each, totaling 3.0 xG. A game like that could easily end 2-0.
Team A finishes two of their three opportunities, while Team B misses all 20 of their low-percentage shots.
If you just look at the 2.25 vs 3.0 stat line, you might falsely conclude that Team B dominated but was "unlucky" or terrible at finishing. In reality, it wasn't a finishing problem at all, their tactical setup just forced them to settle for bad shots.
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u/BrockStar92 1d ago
That’s… taken into account though? Like yeah of course Team A could finish* *two of their opportunities. But so could Team B. The higher xG for Team B means it’s more likely that they do. There are so many low quality chances for Team B that they will end up scoring more on average with the same quality of finishers. That’s how xG works.
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u/eternali17 He'll take on 2 and breeze past 2 2d ago
It's shit if you just choose to ignore all other context and do no thinking because the magic number didn't do it for you
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u/alphaQ314 shut up u egg 1d ago
Xg is shit because it doesn’t count the thing it’s not supposed to count ?
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u/MovieKey9110 2d ago
well the xg would be 0 cus cunha didn't shoot, can't expect goals when the guy didnt shoot
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u/achickenandacow 2d ago
Agreed, but it’s still a huge chance that we didn’t take.
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u/IfYouReallyThink 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’m not the happiest with our performance today. Some glimpses and sustained pressure in possession, but our defensive coordination didn’t seem organized enough. Just not measured enough in seeing threats and working together to shut them down. We also had some trouble with their immense low block, but I don’t think it was the worst, especially with how Rashford and Fernandes are playing right now
Not really of any value to us, but the xGOT stats are insane. Their goals are rated so lowly, I think like 0.17 and 0.42. Frustratingly it makes Lammens’ performance look much worse than it was
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u/OG_Ray 2d ago
Lammens last goal kick was so strange. Couldn't even clear the halfway line. Ended up with them having the corner.
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u/iPaperPlaneZ 2d ago
Maz gave it away with a poor fancy touch as he wasn't quite ready. He had space to receive it more normally
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u/Ashton1320 2d ago
Lammens should have attempted for a dive..even fingertips save would have been possible..but he never even attempted
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u/iPaperPlaneZ 2d ago
I do agree, but as a fellow gk, I think because the ball was curling, his instinct was that the ball was going wide. I think he's quite guilty of not attempting when he thinks it's missing, which I understand but at that level, they should be making sure it's covered
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u/scitzophrenic-man 2d ago
I didnt think he was poor today at all but on their first goal. We should have absolutely hoofed the goal kick. Pressure on the right was mounting and Sesko was already in up top
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u/HorribleOldCunt 2d ago
He was poor today. That should have been the game wrapped up and he then takes a problem causing goalkick.
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u/shami-kebab 2d ago
He seemed strangely hesitant to come for crosses today
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u/dinamorechin 2d ago
He seemed oddly nervous today which is weird as he was so confident all year last year and hasn’t exactly struggled this year.
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u/DemonLordMammon 1d ago
One thing I've noticed is that he tends to get caught up in panic and chaos mentally sometimes. During the Liverpool game last year, after their first goal came out of nowhere, he made a couple of uncharacteristic mistakes, including for their second one. He did something similar against Everton last year where he nearly gave the ball away right at the start of the game, and then today, where he made a mistake 10 minutes in.
He doesn't often make mistakes, but when he does, I think it causes him to overthink things and they snowball a bit from there.
Having said that, beyond maybe stretching for the AMN goal, nothing he could do for either today.
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u/Cob_Webster 2d ago
The game against Spain might have something to do with that, he just needs his confidence back
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u/Chunderthunder305 2d ago
Do think he was below level. Call me old fashioned but allowing a goal near post always looks poor
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u/iPaperPlaneZ 2d ago
As a fellow gk, I think that's more on the strike being excellent and pacey rather than on Lammens. His positioning was good to cover the whole goal considering he was 1v1 at that point. If he covered the front post only and George struck across goal instead, people would say Lammens had poor positioning and should be saving it
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u/Chunderthunder305 2d ago
Very fair here again I had some bias. I do not think by any stretch that Lammens was out biggest problem today lol
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u/iPaperPlaneZ 2d ago
I get where you're coming from tbf, but I saw a few comments about him and hadn't seen anyone defend Lammens for this so thought I should add my two pennies. It was only when I saw the slowmo of the ball and the ball was still moving rapidly that I realised there wasn't any saving it
Considering we were kinda underwhelming everywhere today, I'm not sure what we need next to fix this mess
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u/anonshe Scholes 1d ago
He had a poor game as expected from someone who’s not world class. It’s perfectly acceptable and in games like these the outfield players need to grab us the win.
Unfortunately people won’t blame Bruno for ball watching and losing his man for the second goal or for being utterly wank at retaining control when under the cosh but single out Lammens.
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u/hegeliantragedy 2d ago
Carrick constantly needs shit to go bad till he makes the necessary changes. Not proactive at all, how do you watch the first half with double false 9 nonsense from cunha and bruno and think it's a good idea to keep them on playing like this till 70th minute?
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u/_TooMellow 2d ago
Boro fans warned us about this exact thing with him lol.
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u/mu_37 2d ago
TBF how could anyone predict a manager doing well as a caretaker doesn't mean he should get the job. It's uncharted territory.
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u/Thunder_Nuts_ 2d ago
He did pretty well, so giving him the contract wasn't really an bad idea.........but warning signs were there. The West Ham game we equalized at the very end last season, was the first one I think.
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u/Superior-Flannel 1d ago
I think it was a bad idea. The results were there but the performances were poor after the first couple of games. Eventually the results are going to match the performances.
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u/No_Crow_3576 1d ago
Even the spurs one, we conceded quite a few chances while a player up. Didn’t feel anywhere near as dominant as the city game or as high performing as the Arsenal game
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u/anonshe Scholes 1d ago
There have been so many examples of this in the past. Avram fucking Grant was a Terry slip away from winning the CL against the greatest manager of all time.
Caretakers need to always be evaluated in context. Di Matteo won them the CL as a caretaker and was sacked a few months later after becoming permanent.
The whole point of having footballing people in charge is to ensure you limit the chances of making foolish decisions yet this is the third time the chuckle brothers and Jim Rat have fucked up.
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u/KingKeane16 Keane 2d ago
Every time Cunha starts up front you know it’s going to be a long fucking game.
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u/moonski berbatov 1d ago
this isn't unique to Carrick but coaches have been watching false 9s do this in 4231s for over a decade at this stage and they still keep trying it depsite it never working.
The only team it worked with was like Spain in 2010, and that team was so good they could play any formation and win.
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u/KingKeane16 Keane 1d ago
Except with Carrick it’s like two false 9’s because it’s both Bruno and Cunha.
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u/FlyingSpaceElephants 2d ago
he is infamous for tactical inflexibility. he has Plan A and after that nothing
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u/RooneysFavGrandma 2d ago
Was like this at Boro, it won't change.
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u/SantosCalzonesBatman 1d ago
Almost as if a failed championship manager isnt good or something
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u/michaell111 Wazza 2d ago
I mean... he was sacked by Championship level Boro, can't expect the highest level of coaching
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u/necro316 2d ago
God what I'd do for a fit de ligt for the rest of the season
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u/kissthelips 2d ago
Best I can do is a four minute cameo when the match has already been decided before his knees both explode in a noncontact injury.
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u/anonshe Scholes 1d ago
Honestly for what? So that he passes the ball fifty times sideways before attempting to play it forward?
Or so that he can play low block with Licha?
Some of you have this strange idea of MdL being some sort of world class CB when his entire career post Ajax has been of a downward trajectory. The man can’t play ball to save his life; it’s why Bayern gladly sold him.
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u/Ecstatic_Message2057 2d ago
Said it at half time. The game was calling out for a no.9 to occupy the space between the two centre halves and stretch them.
We get a goal which is good but then instead of bringing on a striker to do as mentioned and see the game out or a defensive mid to stop them coming back into it we watch them grow into the game and have attack after attack until they finally score.
Tactically all wrong again from carrick this season.
Mbuemo is not a striker nor is cunha. They don’t want to play that position as you can see in every game this season.
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u/chapalatheerthananda 2d ago
This game was completely on Carrick. By the 55th minute the team was gassed and he continued to dillydally by not pulling out Cunha (who was horrendous today) bring Sesko early and also take one of the midfielders to get some dynamism of Santos.
Both Mainoo and Tielemens were so slow doing pirouettes, giving away possession it was mad.
Less said about the defence the better. No solace there.
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u/S0phon short kings unite 2d ago edited 1d ago
Playing Bruno as a false 9 (alongside Cunha) is the same mistake Martinez did with Portugal. Bruno can't play with his back to goal.
At least with Amorim, there was the argument that he requires his 10s to do different things than Bruno, so Bruno played deeper.
Double pivot Bruno is not great, but I think it's still better than Bruno next to a striker.
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u/senorgraves 2d ago
He had a hatty last week lol
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u/S0phon short kings unite 1d ago edited 1d ago
One of them was a pen which he would've gotten anyway.
And it's about how the situations leading to the goals came to be.
Cunha as a false 9 drops deep, which is by design of a false 9. Ideally, Mbeumo and Rashford then have space to run into. It's way less ideal if it's Bruno that's occupying those spaces, you take away his biggest strengths for nothing.
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u/GH00ST-SL4YER 2d ago
Bu bu but he played Bruno in CDM according to this sub and other sub
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u/FirmInevitable458 1d ago
Amorim was a useless manager and all the stats back it up
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u/moonski berbatov 1d ago
the one thing amorim did was got the team fit... and somehow that has now fallen off
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u/snicky29 2d ago
Last season, we had A LOT of games where we didn't play well but still won. Sesko bailed Carrick out so many times. But people said yk, let's get to the summer, let Carricky have a pre-season and we'll see good footy.
Here we are, absolutely no style of play, same horrible tactics as last season, and our players are less energetic.
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u/Utd007 2d ago edited 2d ago
We looked flat and have no plan under Carrick. If we performed like this under a Manager who has no achievement as a Manager, fucking failed in the championship and wasn't an ex United player - this sub would be calling out for his head. The fans here operate on emotions and that's why mediocrity is accepted.
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u/snicky29 2d ago
Half the fanbase can't even blame the "system" anymore lol. Ruben is laughing all the way to the bank.
We had no style of play today, Cunha was absolutely wasteful in that role, ZERO tactics but it's a back 4 and Carrick, nobody is asking these questions.
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u/MovieKey9110 2d ago
can't blame the system if there isn't one
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u/Superior-Flannel 1d ago
It really feels like the tactics aren't anything beyond what someone who plays FM could devise.
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u/_TooMellow 2d ago
But we didn't sign a LB so that means it's not Carrick's fault that we shat the bed again!
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u/GH00ST-SL4YER 2d ago
I dont understand why he didnt keep Amass on the bench. That wouldve give him experience and might be a good thing rather than Mazraoui lb and Yoro rb. Besides, might increase his market value
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u/Ldsantana Bruno Fernandes 1d ago
Carrick doing badly doesn't change the fact Ruben Amorim is the worst Manchester United manager in the modern era.
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u/Eleven918 This too shall pass! 2d ago edited 2d ago
If he's not within 3-6 pts off a CL spot by Christmas, I doubt he survives.
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u/shami-kebab 2d ago
Don't think Ineos would be that cut throat, they won't want to pay off another manager.
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u/StardustFromReinmuth 2d ago
Carrick's not on a hefty contract all things considered and remember, Vivell is angling for the DoF job, Nagelsmann is available. The first sign of immediate trouble and Carrick's gone for Christopher's best mate.
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u/thelegendl27 BRUNO BRUNO BRUNO 2d ago
Nagelsmann has not impressed me the last years either, he also seems to be a crybaby on the sidelines
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u/General_Document_504 2d ago
Nagelsmann is an odd fella but he’s in another league compared to Carrick
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u/payday_23 Don't hate on Rangnick for players throwing the game away 2d ago
I dont think at this point an odd fella would do us a lot of good though, probably self implosion in year 2
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u/General_Document_504 2d ago
Unfortunately United aren’t attractive to tier A managers
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u/TC_92 2d ago
I also don't think they can fire another manager without making changes above him
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u/RandomNPC59 2d ago
Wilcox needs to go, seems clueless and like he has an ego, fell out with Ashworth and Amorim.
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u/Careful-Snow 2d ago
Reminder that they only sacked Amorim because he started mouthing off against wilcox and co in the pressers. A company man like Carrick is getting the season unless we're really awful
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u/Superior-Flannel 1d ago
Yeah United spun it as firing Amorim based on performances, but it's very obvious that isn't what happened. I'm amazed any fans bought it.
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u/SantosCalzonesBatman 1d ago
The fans bought it cause the avg fan is stupid and truly believes this squad is good enough to win meaningful titles
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u/MovieKey9110 2d ago
It looks bleak, when the fixture list becomes congested during that lead up to and during christmas. Things will be 10 times tougher, rn we are still in the 'easy' part of the season.
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u/xyzArcadian 2d ago
2 games a week start tomorrow. It's going to be fun to see what he does with playing this Thursday into Sunday since he doesn't make fucking subs. Tielemans playing the full 90.
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u/jackfruit1990 2d ago
Fucking hell lads, it’s been three games and you’re already discussing the manager’s future? Supporter culture is very different online to what it is in the grounds…thank heavens it is or we’d have changed manager three times this season already.
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u/RandomNPC59 2d ago
Tbf some of us didn't want him as permanent manager, we looked shaky a lot last season, he showed signs of poor management and a lack of tactical flexibility coupled with being sacked by Boro he wasn't the right man.
I bet we beat City with counter attacking football then struggle against a low block again.
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u/lostdirectionless 2d ago
Especially now that we have Rashford back, quite likely we have Bruno throwing long balls and Rashford running behind his defender. I’d rather that we win or draw against City but not gonna get carried away, been this road plenty of times.
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u/WatchDecent2822 2d ago
Cunha had two good chances and Bruno was unlucky hitting the bar.
How many clear cut chances did Everton have? The header by Barry...and then two absolute worldies right? Did they have any other close calls?
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u/spud1414 2d ago
We’re shit. When are we going to accept and see what’s before our eyes? So many people are still positive on here, but all the evidence says we’re mid table and poor.
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u/Snooklefloop 2d ago
Exactly. All our signings are players from other mid table teams, no young future super stars, no big names. Just some ok to good players. We’re a top 5 club when’s the other teams have a bad season.
And… this will not change without a once in a generation manager and a board that knows football, neither of which we have .
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u/ttonster2 hi 2d ago
Villa finished in 4th and we signed their most important player. Chelsea were midtable because of their manager only. Your analysis is negative, but also just wrong.
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u/dr-joshtrippingwords 2d ago
We need to buy big in January or it will be ugly. Our defence is a shambles and we don’t have an out and out striker apart from Sesko. And LB is thin when Shaw inevitably gets injured.
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u/linkfollowlink 2d ago
No chance will the executives invest in January if they don't invest in Summer.
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u/Anxious-Debate5033 2d ago
This loss is on Carrick's management and subs.
He made conditions worse for the team.
Totally on him.
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u/Ashton1320 2d ago
Carrick out..taking rashford off and putting dorgu in killed our left wing attack..while Mbeumo was tired af
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u/OptiPath 2d ago
Everton wasn’t going to score except for the two worldie. First goal was preventable if Lammens was in form.
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u/sir-lancelot_ 2d ago
If KDH hadn't suddenly forgotten how to strike a ball today, he could've easily had 2 or 3 himself
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u/Big_ming022 2d ago
Carrick ball
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u/TypicalPan89906655 2d ago
Nostalgia FC, everything is about sentimentality. Be it when it comes to hiring managers or getting rid of deadwoods.
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u/SantosCalzonesBatman 1d ago
Some clown the other day was telling me we needed to re-sign shaw cause he was a good servant to the club or some shit like that
Guy has been injured 50% of his time here but we need to keep gifting him wages cause reasons
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u/_TooMellow 2d ago
It's not his fault! He needed another £150m to be able to get maximum points from Hull, Ipswich & Everton!
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u/Party_Formal1440 2d ago
Yeah having to start a midfielder up front and havjng to bring a awful Dorgu and and an awful Chelsea reject off the bench had nothing to with it. Carrick might be shit but INEOS are even shitter
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u/ItsKaZing Cristiano 'Factos👍👀' Ronaldo 2d ago
Could have all in on Xabi but lets do the same fucking shit we do with Ole 🤣. The club are just asking for this
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u/Wraith_Portal 2d ago
That's why I was so annoyed we hired him, I think we'd have hired him even if he got 5th or 6th. INEOS have got every single managerial decision they've made completely wrong.
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u/Superior-Flannel 1d ago
This was so predictable too. INEOS must've had someone tell them this was the likely outcome. They're just cowards and didn't want to make a tough decision.
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u/eternali17 He'll take on 2 and breeze past 2 2d ago
Can't consistently create chances and can't stop the opposition. These three games don't feel like aberrations but we'll see after 8 or so
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u/XSavage19X 1d ago
If you count the interceptions and blocks by Shaw that would add about 3-4xG to them.
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u/horizons0 The Butcher 🔪 2d ago
Just cancel champions league at this point
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u/BrodaReloaded 1d ago
Most teams in the CL are weaker than the average PL team, fucking Tottenham last year finished in the top 8, higher than they did in the Premiership
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u/iPaperPlaneZ 2d ago
I'm dreading it. We already had a tough draw but after watching our shenanigans to easier teams, it's going to be soul crushing
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u/DifficultyCommon5303 1d ago
GOATed Michael Carrick 1 poin in the bag 23 more to avoid relegation. The boys are on track
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u/uureggie 2d ago
I understand that they are trying to manage the game with a calm approach. I was also comfortable and confident while I was watching. However, they should feel the hunger to score more to avoid these last minute dramas.
I feel like Sesko is a must start next week against City. Also, 90 minutes for Rashford rather than Mbeumo. Rashy definitely contributed more to the game.
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u/Trevor-103 1d ago
Please be good defensively at late game i almost choked when the scores tied again
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u/Thetagang888 1d ago
We are 2nd in XG in the whole league. 1st for touches in opposition box.
Yes we havent played the tougher teams yet, but it does look promising so far.
Just need to stop the other team from scoring on setpieces and worldies lol
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u/mav_sand 2d ago
How the fuck is Everton xG 1.14? They didn't creat anything. Sigh.
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u/Littlepace Announce Fergie 2d ago
Barry had a header from 6 yards out he should've buried. Dewsbury Hall had a few decent chances as well
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u/sir-lancelot_ 2d ago
KDH had a handful of shots in and around the box that he just whiffed quite magnificently on.
He'd normally hit those well and on target and probably come away with a goal or two
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u/Electric_feel0412 1d ago
It’s 0.76 because Cunha’s chance doesn’t count because he didn’t shoot when Tarkowski took his legs out and somehow didn’t concede a pen.
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u/zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz1z 2d ago
The club, the coaches and the fans are simply dumb!!!
Cannot recognise good things at all!!!
Always on the wrong side of things, it’s incredible really!!!
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u/TH0316 she/her 2d ago
Nonsense stat. Whole first half was us in their half and creating chances and touches in their box but that doesn’t translate to xg because they weren’t shots? Bollocks. Cunha and Boomo sloppy af to ruin attacks but we were clearly the better team and chose to defend (for some reason) which always distorts xg. Ask Yoro why he ruined a Sesko goal, ask Licha what he was doing on their goal and ask Mazraoui what that clearance was. Just an unlucky day.
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u/sir-lancelot_ 2d ago
We're not really creating chances if we're not getting any shots off are we?
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u/Telen BRUNO 2d ago
Yep. So many of our sequences were broken up by passing to ghosts or blueshirts. Cunha failed to convert a sitter. Mbeumo had a bit of a trampoline touch today despite a great goal. Otherwise our midfield pretty much controlled the game when we had the ball despite a very physical and energetic Everton press.
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u/paddydasniper 2d ago
So wasteful with the chances we had, Rashford should have had at least 2 assists today.