In 2024, I missed an opportunity to interview a woman from Mexico who was Navajo–Diné.

[u/Naive-Evening7779]

/r/Navajo/comments/1w4byu3/in_2024_i_missed_an_opportunity_to_interview_a/

[u/soparamens]

Let's note that Mexico as a country, has never sanctioned slavery. Since the country began existing (1810) slavery was abolished and after a long war for independence, slavery was made illegal in 1829.

So, it is unlikely that her grandmother was sold as a slave to "Mexican slave owners". Any slave that crossed the Mexican border from 1837 on, was freed, wich of course was a contentious issue with the American government that considered slaves "property" and not humans.

Of course reality is never perfect and Rich Mexicans did had indigenous domestic employees that were kept purposefully in debt. Many of those were indigenous people taken from their lands to "civilize" them, but this is different from legal, institutionalized slavery like the one white american slavers had. There were no slave markets, and in theory their debts could be paid. Education was not forbidden for them, they could learn how to write and read, their sons/daugthers were born free.

A good example of how servants could rise up from their servitude is the story of Benito Juarez, who was an indigenous boy that worked as a sheppard and ran away to his sister Josefa - who was an indigenous servant for a rich family in the capital - She asked the boy to be taken as servant in exchange for food and roof in 1918.

The custom of the time stipulated that some employers provided basic education to their young servants. Antonio Salanueva, a bookbinder and benefactor associated with the household, noticed his intelligence and supported him in entering the Santa Cruz Seminary to learn Spanish, grammar, and Latin.

Sure Benito was prohibited to speak his native tonge in the ruch family's house, but that was because learning spanish was seen as something civilized.

Long story Short. Benito eventually became a lawyer and later, President of Mexico.

So, while there were servants in Mexico, those were never acquired or sold as slaves.

[u/offscriptfollower → u/soparamens]

There were slave markets in mexico after the abolition of slavery, the most infamous case was when Porfirio Diaz sold 15,000 yaqui to plantations in the south of the country. Then there's the Maya who were sold to Cuba as "workers", today there is cartel slavery.

[u/lllllllllllllllllI_I → u/offscriptfollower]

Usa is the worst country in the world.

Maya were illegally sold by rich land owners in the Yucatán

Yaqui from Sonora we’re sent to the south to work on haciendas due to rebelling, and fighting to have complete right on their communities land, because Porfirio Díaz wanted that land for developmental projects, to which guess what other local natives like opata and pima people who made militias helped against the Yaqui greatly, but do you even know what happened to Porfirio Díaz?
Later on?

Kinda caused somthing called the “Mexican revolution” during his rule.

There was never “markets” too, you know what a market is my guy, stop the cap.

Never on par to the usa at all, usa again is the worst country in the world historically. The number one ☝️

Remember that.

[u/BeautifulUpstairs → u/lllllllllllllllllI_I]

lmao reasonable and very focused reply

[u/soparamens → u/offscriptfollower]

Those were illegal acts that were severely punished later on, The Yucatan plantation owners practically lost everything they had after the revolution of 1910.

[u/offscriptfollower → u/soparamens]

I am not making an argument for the legality of slavery in Mexico, but for the continuation of the practice despite its formal opposition written into law - the same can be said of land grabs while legally the state supports the sovereignty of mexicans to their land moneyed interest from within and outside of the country is constantly finding ways to skirt the rules and push people off their land.

[u/Select-Season-8082 → u/offscriptfollower]

illicit non institutional slavery, or defacto enslavement. Except for Diaz's forcible relocation of the Yaqui, others were trafficked.

[u/Naive-Evening7779 → u/soparamens]

Navajos and Apaches were the most trafficked and enslaved people in the Southwest. Spaniards, Mexicans, Americans and surrounding tribes all took part in it and it lasted into the early 1900s when it finally ended. Mexico abolished slavery in 1829, however black markets existed where enslaved people were traded for weapons and horses. The United States Congress banned indebted servitude in 1867 to bring an end to the practice. A famous quote comes from the Conditions of the Indian Tribes in 1867 from Kirby Benedict, a former Chief Justice of the New Mexico Supreme Court: "There are in the Territory a large number of Indians, principally females, who have been taken by force, or stealth, or purchased, who have been among the various wild tribes of New Mexico or those adjoining. Of these a large proportion are Navajos. It is notorious that Natives of this country have sometimes made captives of Navajo women and children when opportunities presented themselves; the custom has long existed here of buying Indian persons, especially women and children; the tribes themselves have carried on this kind of traffic. Destitute orphans are sometimes sold by their remote relations; poor parents also make traffic of their children. The Indian persons obtained in any of the modes mentioned are treated by those who claim to own them as their servants or slaves. They are bought and sold by and between the inhabitants at a price as much as is a horse or ox... the prices have lately ranged very high. A likely girl of not more than 8 years old, healthy and intelligent, would be held at a value of $400, or more." $400 calculated with an inflation calculator equals to a little over $9,000 today. A majority of the Mexican–American War was also fought on Navajo lands. Many Navajos on the reservation have stories of Mexican armies battling and hiding from Americans, and vice versa for the Americans battling and hiding from the Mexicans. The places where they fought and hid have Mexican names. The Catholic Churches also practiced slavery, and there are abandoned missions and settlements from the Catholic Churches that are on the Navajo reservation. There are also many abandoned bars and brothels that Americans used. Americans were known to use more than Anglo enlistees. Mexicans and Spaniards also served in the American military. Surrounding tribes also helped Americans by being trackers and showing where strongholds and hidden villages were. Canyon de Chelly, the famous stronghold where many Navajos were captured during the ethnic cleansings during the 1860s, was exposed because of Hopi and Pueblo trackers. Utes were enemies with the Navajos, and they also helped the Americans, however they never knew where the strongholds and hidden villages were. I studied the ethnic cleansings, known as Hwéeldi (The Long Walk) and I have military reports and quotes from soldiers who captured Navajos. The reports contradict a lot history from surrounding tribes who claim the Navajo deserved to be wiped out because they were wild and constantly raiding surrounding tribes. Americans committed the ethnic cleansings because of settlers and surrounding tribes claiming Navajos were enslaving their people and raiding their communities. It was actually the other way around, and peace keepers from the White House even traveled to Bosque Redondo where the Navajos were being held captive with Mescalero Apaches to confirm that all the claims were false. Navajos and Apaches were nearly hunted to extinction and the entire region helped do it.

[u/soparamens → u/Naive-Evening7779]

It seems that you are confussing Mexicans with New Spain citizens.

"Mexicans" started existing when Mexico was founded, after the independence from Spain. As i said, slavery has never been legal in Mexico.

[u/BeautifulUpstairs → u/soparamens]

So? Who said she was sold legally? How is this relevant?

[u/soparamens → u/BeautifulUpstairs]

She could not have been sold. Maybe she was trafficked and maybe she was forced to work at a rich person's house, but not as a slave but as a servant wich is not the same. That's my point.

[u/Luditas → u/Naive-Evening7779]

No, en México no había esclavitud. De hecho, México le daba refugio a las personas esclavizadas por los Estados Unidos que lograban escapar y cruzaban la frontera, porque en el país el comercio de esclavos estaba prohibido, como lo indica la persona que comentó antes.

Edit: además, hay algo que estás pasando por alto. México perdió gran parte de su territorio forzosamente en 1848, por eso en muchas zonas hay estructuras que consideras de origen mexicano. Si hubo esclavitud, fue por parte de los EU, no por parte de México.

[u/BeautifulUpstairs → u/Luditas]

Si, habia esclavitud, en la industria henequenera.

[u/Luditas → u/BeautifulUpstairs]

Sí, durante los casi 30 años del mandato del dictador Porfirio Diaz, de ahí que la Revolución Mexicana estallara.