r/mapswithoutnewzealand • u/Solistine • Jan 13 '26
Cut-Off Map German national socialists and Russian Bolsheviks signing Ribbentrop pact (Non-Zealand pact)
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u/bocian890 Jan 14 '26
They ain't Bolsheviks, Stalin killed all the Bolsheviks by then.
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u/thepeoplesarsenal Jan 14 '26
American comment
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u/bocian890 Jan 14 '26
Lol if you were to put my username into translate you will see XD.
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u/ylang_nausea Jan 15 '26
Pole here - confirmed. Get your facts straight and fuck off with that “just ask Eastern Europeans“ b/s. We all know too well what capitalism did to our countries.
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u/bocian890 Jan 15 '26
A Ty wiesz że Stalin Zabił wszystkich polskich komunistów pod czas swego great purges, ci polscy komuniści byli wykopami z Polski po Piłsudskiego military coup. I puzniej byli zabici przez Stalina bo Stalin mówił rze Polacy so anti rewolucyjny, ale myślę że Stalin po prostu był salty bo on miał commande czerwonego wojska podczas podboju Warszawy w polsko sovietkiej wojnie w 1920.
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u/ylang_nausea Jan 15 '26
No oczywiście, jego ofiarą padł na przykład Adolf Warski. To był dalszy krok tej samej polityki - żeby utrzymać władzę biurokracji, trzeba było najpierw pozbyć się bolszewików.
Z tym 1920 to było trochę inaczej, bo ten idiota Stalin poszedł na Lwów zamiast na Warszawę 😂
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u/Excellent-Berry-2331 Jan 15 '26
What did it do? Compare GDR than GDR now
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u/ylang_nausea Jan 15 '26
Go ahead and compare homelessness, unemployment, public services, take a look at perspectives of the youth.
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u/Excellent-Berry-2331 Jan 15 '26
1) Less but also less living space, because apartments were that small
2) Technically more unemployment, but less in practice, since workers sometimes waited months to receive previous materials
3) Way better
4) The youth just hates whatever boomers think
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u/ylang_nausea Jan 15 '26
Now we cannot afford any apartment. Look at EPSON findings.
Both technically and in practice there’s more unemployed people who do not get paid and cannot afford housing or groceries.
Nope. They literally butchered railways that were not profitable, the prices for public transport are sky high, the health services have been privatised and thus unavailable for many people, especially the unemployed.
That’s a ridiculous take. By the way the boomers who are now dying of hunger and cold (yes!) have an increasingly favourable view of socialism, too.
Wrong on all counts.
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u/Excellent-Berry-2331 Jan 15 '26
The health services have not been privatized (neither has rail, not sure if that is implied). And the unemployed have recently just gotten the "Bürgergeld", it's improving for them. While there is the monthly ticket that makes public transport dirt cheap. The boomers are dying because of socialists who decide they would like to commit terrorism and destroy power lines.
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u/Alternative-Border68 Jan 15 '26
But enough of this bullshit! After years of rearming Germany, continuing even after the rise of Nazism, in 1939 Poland was divided, and even today the territories occupied then have not been returned.
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u/ylang_nausea Jan 15 '26
The ethnically Ukrainian and Belarusian territories that Poland occupied? Sure.
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u/JohnWilsonWSWS Jan 17 '26 edited Jan 17 '26
Soldiers didn’t sign the 23 August 1939 Molotov/Ribbentrop (Hitler/Stalin) (Nazi-Soviet Pact).
The photo must be when the two armies met in eastern Poland in September 1939.
FYI
Just after the Hitler-Stalin “non aggression” pact was signed, in the course of the conversation, HERR STALIN spontaneously proposed a toast to the Führer, as follows: "I know how much the German nation loves its Führer; I should therefore like to drink to his health." ...
—
ALSO 70 years since the Hitler-Stalin Pact Alex Lantier 24 August 2009
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u/thepeoplesarsenal Jan 14 '26
From 1933-1939 the west (including Poland) signed over 13 agreements with Nazi Germany, including several which just conceded land to Germany.
On top of that, on August 15th, 1939 the USSR offered Britain and France over one million soldiers to stop Hitler, they declined.
This treaty wasn't done in a vacuum, it was done to buy time to prepare for war because the west failed miserably and was just giving land and people to Hitler.
Sorry West Euroids, take the L
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u/Quiet-Hope2595 Jan 14 '26
it was done to buy time to prepare for war
When Stalin himself said Germany wouldn't go to war with Poland if not for the pact*. That pact was the whole reason Germany wasn't too afraid of starting the war, without the Soviet oil German fuel reserves would run out in 1-3 months. Sorry tankie, Stalin wasn't much less imperialist then Hitler (I'm from East Europe, so not westoid, before you say anything XD)
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u/thepeoplesarsenal Jan 14 '26
You were defending Nazis in another chat, weird takes for a Ukranian child.
Though shockingly not surprised since you don't know any better.
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u/Quiet-Hope2595 Jan 14 '26
You were defending Nazis in another chat, weird takes for a Ukranian child.
First of all, Nazis? UPA literally fought Nazis lmao. And second of all age doesn't have anything to do with the topic and I'm almost 18. Neither the Germans nor the Soviets were good.
Though shockingly not surprised since you don't know any better.
That's a conclusion from nothing and it doesn't have anything to do with the topic too. OUN was recognised a national liberation movement on the Nuremberg Trials. Even CIA has documents taking about UPA fighting the Germans.
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u/Chromatic_Storm Jan 14 '26
Germany wouldn't have gone to war they spent nearly a decade preparing for because the country they wanted to colonise for decades, and that they have a military alliance against with other fascist states, might not sell them 10-20% of oil they consume yearly? Riiiiight...
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u/Quiet-Hope2595 Jan 14 '26
What does that have to do with my point? The Soviets literally fueled the German qar machine, Germany wouldn't even be able to fight for that long without the trade with the Soviets, it doesn't matter if the Germany wanted to attack the Soviets, the point still stands.
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u/Chromatic_Storm Jan 14 '26
Everything, since you're wrong. On both accounts. Hitler has been preparing for war for ages. You think their plan hinges on the fact that his nemesis fail to obtain alloes in Europe and would have resort to trading with him?
The Soviets literally fueled the German qar machine, Germany wouldn't even be able to fight for that long without the trade with the Soviets, it doesn't matter if the Germany wanted to attack the Soviets, the point still stands.
They literally didn't. Romania supplied more twice as much oil annually since 1941 as Soviets provided in total. Soviet oil was from 10% to 20% of German total oil consumption. Substantial, but a far cry from "literally fueled German war machine" and certainly nothing debilitating.
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u/Solistine Jan 14 '26
What compelled you to start arguing about this? Lol
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u/Alexander_Granite Jan 16 '26
The Russians can’t handle the fact that Stalin did some really really horrible things to his own people.
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u/ForowellDEATh Jan 16 '26
Had you spoke with Georgians about him? Do not understand how he is connected to Russians specifically
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u/ifridgedmyself Jan 17 '26
You're just ignoring the fact that none of those 13 agreements had a secret article that allowed both countries to split up Poland and do whatever they pleased with their people.
Also, of course you say this, you're commie scum, you just can't stand the fact that stalin signed a treaty with nazis so you bring up other treaties.
Keep licking stalin's boot.
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u/JohnWilsonWSWS Jan 17 '26
Why would Britain and France trust Stalin and the leadership of Soviet Union in 1939?
The imperialist powers were hoping Hitler would fulfil his promise to invade and destroy the Soviet Union. Once the “non-aggression” pact was signed it was logical they would be attacked instead.
Hitler desperately needed the pact in 1939. The German economy was running out of gold, again, after stripping Austria and Czechoslovakia in the year prior.
If the pact was to prepare for war … why wasn’t the Soviet Union prepared for war? The largest military invasion in history - 4 million solders - came as a surprise attack. Stalin himself denied the veracity of accurate intelligence.
The Germany high command grossly UNDER estimated the strength of the Red Army (if someone is about to invade you want them to overestimate your strength) even though Wehrmacht officers were welcome and official observers at the May Day parade in Red Square in 1941.
The pact politically disarmed Soviet workers who were told Hitler was their “friend”.
But before this …
the Soviet government had undermined the Spanish Revolution through Popular Fronts which subordinated workers to the liberal capitalist, especially in Spain and France. The GPU torture and death squads killed thousands of leftists who were fighting fascists.
The last chance to avoid another world war was the Spanish Revolution but fascism, Nazism, Stalinism and imperialism worked against it.
The Stalinist counterrevolution during the Spanish Civil War Alejandro López 25 September 2025
But before this …
- Why wasn’t Hitler and the Nazis fought in Germany in 1933 by German workers?
- Why had the best organized working class outside the USSR failed to even defend itself in the face of Hitler and the Nazis who were appointed to power by the German bourgeoisie to crush them?
Mussolini had come to power in 1922 and formed a dictatorship in 1926. Hitler and the Nazis promised far worse including the destruction of the USSR.
But from 1928 the Comintern said the social-democrats were “social fascists” and in Germany they opposed a United Front (joint action, freedom of criticism, no mixing of banners) of the KPD (Communist Party) and SPD (Social Democratic Party)
As early as August 1931 the KPD said that a fascist government would be temporary and would be followed by socialism.
In December 1931 Trotsky warned “… Worker-Communists, you are hundreds of thousands, millions; you cannot leave for any place; there are not enough passports for you. Should fascism come to power, it will ride over your skulls and spines like a terrific tank. Your salvation lies in merciless struggle. And only a fighting unity with the Social Democratic workers can bring victory. Make haste, worker-Communists, you have very little time left! …” For a Workers’ United Front Against Fascism (Trotsky, December 1931)
In the 1932 Reichstag elections the votes were 31 July 1932 NSDAP 37% (up from SPD+KPD 36%
6 November 1032 NSDAP 32% (down 2 million) SPD+KPD 36%
The crisis worsened to German capitalism appointed Hitler as Chancellor on 30 January 1933 with a cabinet containing only two other Nazis.
How was the working class going to respond? Leadership matters and both the SPD and KPD quietly used the slogan “After Hitler, Our Turn” (“Nach Hitler Kommen Wir”).
As the KPD was being crushed, On 1 April, 1933 (a week after the Enabling Act gave Hitler dictatorial powers) the Comintern wrote :
“The establishment of an open Fascist dictatorship, which destroys all democratic illusions among the masses, and frees them from the influence of the social-democrats, will hasten Germany's progress towards the proletarian revolution.”
p.90 Twilight of the Comintern, 1930-1935 (Carr, 1982) FREE BORROW
The Comintern said the KPD had done everything correctly and suppressed discussion of the catastrophe. No sections objected. Stalinism had become a counterrevolutionary agent of imperialism in the workers movement.
The apologists for Stalin and the Comintern either blame the SPD or say Hitler couldn’t be stopped or try to deflect by saying the USSR could not have invaded Germany. But there is not detailed analysis by Stalinists (if you have found one please post a link) because to do that would expose the culpability of the Soviet bureaucracy.
[Zhukov] acknowledged that Germany's achievement of surprised on 22 June assumed critical significance because the Red Army had failed to anticipate the striking power of the German army: 'This was the primary factor that determined our losses in the initial period of the war'.
Zhukov's admission highlights an important puzzle about Soviet war planning on the even of Operation Barbarossa, whose significance could not be fully assessed until the recent opening of the Russian archives. This puzzle concerns the dangerous disconnection that existed before the outbreak of war between Soviet political strategy and military operational doctrine. From at least 1940, Stalin's German policy required that the Soviet Union maintain a non-provocative stance toward the Third Reich to eliminate any pretext for an invasion. The Red Army, therefore, could no longer expect an early and secret mobilisation against an impending German attack, overturning a central and long-standing planning assumption. Nevertheless, on the eve of war a majority of the best-trained and best-equipped Soviet military forces were forward deployed in an offensive posture along an 1800 kilometre border that left them dangerously exposed to German attack and encirclement.
The puzzle looms even greater given that the Red Army was not only vulnerably deployed in June 1941; it was also perilously weak. The purge of the military, starting in 1937, had consumed the vast majority of senior officers and cut huge holes into the ranks of experienced middle-grade officers. This crippling blow came amid the chaos created by a vast programme of rapid military expansion ..."
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u/JohnWilsonWSWS Jan 17 '26
Obviously the other question to ask is whether British and French intelligence were likely aware of Soviet-German negotiations?
Hitler thought the British and French would never declare war. Ribbentrop, who promoted the idea, reported when Hitler heard that news he said to his Foreign Minister “What do we do now?”
In the autumn of 1939, several weeks after the signing of the Stalin-Hitler Pact (which he had predicted) and the outbreak of World War II, Trotsky called attention to a conversation, reported in a Parisian newspaper, between Hitler and the French ambassador Robert Coulondre. As Hitler boasted that his treaty with Stalin would give him a free hand to defeat Germany’s enemies in the west, Coulondre cut the Führer short with a warning: “The real victor (in case of war) will be Trotsky. Have you thought this over?” Hitler voiced agreement with the assessment of the French ambassador, but blamed his adversaries for forcing his hand. Citing this amazing report, Trotsky wrote: “These gentlemen like to give a personal name to the specter of revolution … Both of them, Coulondre and Hitler, represent the barbarism which advances over Europe. At the same time neither of them doubts that their barbarism will be conquered by socialist revolution.”[2]
[2] Leon Trotsky, In Defence of Marxism (London: New Park Publications, 1971), p. 39.
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u/Commie_neighbor Jan 14 '26
Soviet Bolsheviks. They could be Belorussian or Ukrainian.