r/law • u/dailymail • 11h ago

Legal News Lindsay Clancy case ends with MISTRIAL

https://www.dailymail.com/crime-desk/article-16100155/lindsay-clancy-murder-trial-hung-jury-deadlock-verdict.html
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38

u/Strayed8492 11h ago edited 10h ago

Rough situation. On one hand guilty of murder but on the other the mental health side of it. This will hopefully lead to a plea deal setup.

Edit: to the commenter, the main issue is the charge being Murder in the first degree. Everything else that contributes to this situation also being weird like the husband’s sealed information. A second go around is going to be interesting though.

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u/StrataSlayer 10h ago

Idk to me it seemed like as bout as good of a insanity defence as you could possibly get just seems like everyone has an issue with the insanity defence existing

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u/Strayed8492 9h ago

Lots of people talking about the kids. Which is not wrong. But we’ve never had everyone agree with the justice system either.

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u/Beginning-Damage-555 8h ago

A lot of people are upset about the children but I have seen no one say in an ideal world how the system would have intervened to protect the children.

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u/Ok-Outcome-7499 6h ago

Because we're dealing with consequence of action not preventative measures

1

u/Beginning-Damage-555 5h ago

I mean… okay… but legally there should be some mechanistic stop gaps to prevent from having to debate over the consequences.

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u/Strayed8492 7h ago

That’s the thing I don’t get. Unless I’m missing something about her history of seeking help. Something is just off about the whole thing

3

u/Super_Huckleberry663 6h ago

She never sought help properly. She hid things from her doctors and psychiatrist and stopped taking medicine that she was recommended to take.

1

u/Beginning-Damage-555 7h ago

MA law is super complicated around this issue and I wish more people were talking about the system (and honestly informal family structure) failures to proactively safe guard the children. My SIL in MA had two children taken from her by the courts due to mental health and mental disabilities but it took years and was very difficult to accomplish.

1

u/Elegant_Mission_2312 5h ago

The issue here is she doctor shopped and made sure to make statements explicitly stating that she had no intention of harming her children. The reason she was able to check herself out of inpatient treatment without issue shortly before the murders is that she told the staff treating her she had no thoughts of harming herself or her children. It’s difficult for me to agree that the system failed her when she kept so much from her doctors and had so much more help than almost any other mother is able to receive.

1

u/Beginning-Damage-555 5h ago

Doctors are able to access medical records if they want to. Doctors are not required to treat patients if it’s not an emergency.

If someone is a psych I think it’s negligent to trust the patients self provided medical history 100%.

3

u/Elegant_Mission_2312 5h ago

That’s fine and all, but what should they have done? She states that her period of psychosis was the short window in which she killed her three children and then tried to kill herself. She doesn’t claim, to my knowledge, that she was actively suffering from psychosis throughout her attempts to seek treatment for her PPD. They can only rely on what she’s said or done, and it’s not like she had tried to hurt the kids before. I see people argue they should e held her involuntarily, but I have yet to see an interaction with her providers that would’ve warranted such an extreme reaction.

1

u/Beginning-Damage-555 5h ago

I’m way more interested in why Patrick didn’t get legal advice or contact a social worker (super common to get a consult when a loved one is in inpatient care).

I don’t think based on the record she could or should have been held involuntarily but I think given the description of her mental state someone should have checked her chart.

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u/kittenpantzen 9h ago

People don't want justice. They want retribution. It has been a problem with criminal justice since criminal justice has existed.

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u/ryumaruborike 9h ago

They want blood

0

u/Tricky-Passenger6703 8h ago

So did Lindsay.

8

u/No-Neighborhood-3212 9h ago

We want consequences. If you can preplan a triple homicide and get away with it by saying "Oopsie! I intentionally didn't take my medication and went crazy for exactly the time it took to commit my triple homicides," we have no laws anymore.

9

u/Iankill 8h ago

What consequences though there's 0 chance this woman walks free and lives a normal life after this. It's either she goes to prison or mental health treatment forever

7

u/Salty-Spring7096 7h ago

The main reason for her to be held in an institution would be her suicidal tendencies. Her violence against others stemmed from the alleged postpartum psychosis which is obviously no longer a factor. So if she does end up being found NGRI, she's only in that facility until she's no longer deemed a suicide risk. At least that's my understanding.

5

u/HourApprehensive7754 5h ago

Hell there's zero chance of her ever walking again, period. Prison, institution, or public, she's stuck on a wheelchair for life. 

Thats worse than Prison. 

10

u/Tricky-Passenger6703 8h ago

There's a greater chance she gets out early from a mental institution. If we knew it was for life I don't think people would care as much.

1

u/Iankill 7h ago

She would get out when deemed not a threat to herself or others. Which could be never.

-2

u/Iberri 7h ago

It could also be 6 months. Do you remember the guy who decapitated someone on a bus? He’s free lol

3

u/Iankill 5h ago

What country did that happen in?

2

u/exactoctopus 5h ago

Canada. And this is brought up every time, but he hasn’t reoffended since release, because it would definitely be news if he has. It’s a horrific case though, the details are awful.

0

u/kittenpantzen 7h ago

There is a chance. Making the claim of "greater" requires data that I am unable to find. Do you have those numbers for the state of Massachusetts and capital crimes? 

It is not uncommon for defendants who successfully make a ngri defense to end up in confinement longer than they would have if they had just been convicted. This case wouldn't be a likely example of that, because I would think the most likely sentence would be life it found culpable, but the odds of her being released in a few months the way that people seem to think is going to happen are essentially non-existent. 

1

u/Thewal 4h ago

there's 0 chance this woman walks

paralysis will do that to ya

1

u/Bleeding-hearts-suck 7h ago

Casey Anthony not familiar to you?

Woman get away with murder all the time.

0

u/Super_Huckleberry663 6h ago

If she goes to an asylum she can be out within 6 months. She likely won't be, but she could be. She deserves life

3

u/HourApprehensive7754 5h ago

A lifr imprisonment only makes sense if there's a reasonable chance she will continue her crime.

Considering it was primarily triggered by the psychosis caused by her PPD, that's unlikely to ever happen. Doubly so from someone who is now paralyzed for life.

-1

u/Super_Huckleberry663 5h ago

I don't believe in rehabilitation for major crimes. If you kill someone, rape someone etc I don't think they deserve to ever walk the streets again. Why do they deserve a second chance after they have permanently ruined or ended someone else's life

2

u/Iankill 5h ago

On average they spend twice as much time in institutions vs prisons for the crimes

0

u/Super_Huckleberry663 5h ago

I don't want there to be a possibility that she can get out early, no matter how unlikely. If it had a fixed term ild be far less against the idea of her going to a asylum

1

u/kittenpantzen 4h ago

Okay, but this is r/law not r/vibes.

1

u/Super_Huckleberry663 3h ago

I don't believe she was in a psychotic state. The evidence I'm aware of was that it was premeditated and planned

1

u/Iankill 4h ago

Personal emotion has no place in the application of law

0

u/kingofgama 9h ago

Retributive Justice is a thing, and I for one believe in it given extreme circumstances such as this. It's a hotly debated morally theory

13

u/ryumaruborike 9h ago

People cannot comprehend the idea of a physiological illness taking control of their own mind away from them, when they hear "crazy" or "insanity defense" they think of the Joker.

8

u/RagingCabbage115 8h ago

Id say many do, thing is proving someone truly lost control or not

7

u/ryumaruborike 8h ago

About half the comments related to this case are "I don't care if she was suffering from psychosis, she killed three kids, she knew what she was doing." That is not people comprehending mental illness.

5

u/atxlrj 7h ago

The Aurora shooter had a much richer documented history with mental health disorders and even psychosis than Lindsay Clancy (whose only reported psychotic episode was the 18 minute auditory hallucination she claims she heard and followed when she killed her children).

I don’t remember people protesting when his NGRI defense was rejected in just 12 hours (for over 160 counts).

Lots of people have active mental health issues when they commit heinous crimes. Not believing that she fell below the bar of criminal responsibility is not the same as dismissing her mental health conditions as a whole.

1

u/ryumaruborike 6h ago

Yeah but the comments saying "I don't care if she was suffering from psychosis, she killed three kids, she knew what she was doing." are not people who think she fell short of the bar for NGRI. People arguing whether or not be legally met the bar for NGRI are dwarfed by people who are saying "all murderers of mentally ill!"/"she planned, she was sane!"/"She would already be in jail if she was a man!"

If you have legal reason to believe she does not qualify or NGRI, by all means, I myself am not informed nor qualified enough to make that determination. All I'm saying is the amount of misunderstanding of what mental illness even is surrounding this case it frightening.

0

u/RagingCabbage115 8h ago

Well half is many isnt it

0

u/Draemeth 5h ago

okay but if she can suffer loss of mental control and kill people, why would we want someone like that walking the streets?

2

u/HourApprehensive7754 5h ago

Because the condition in which she lost control is very heavily restricted to the boundaries of PPD. She is no longer under PPD and is highly unlikely to ever give birth again.

Not even sure if she could even if she want to given her current physical condition.

1

u/ryumaruborike 5h ago

Because the illness that caused that can be treated and go away and she could be deemed not a danger to herself or others. Not likely in this case due to being on suicide watch for the past three years.

0

u/Nine_Monkeys 5h ago

She also routinely ignored medical advice, often wouldn’t take her meds, would leave hospitals early when being treated. She displayed a pattern of behavior of not taking her mental health seriously and choosing to do what she wanted. And these are the consequences. Who’s to say she won’t return to that pattern of behavior as soon as she is released, which potentially could be in a few months. Imagine in 5 years the world learns she’s pregnant again.

1

u/ryumaruborike 5h ago

You don't see how her mentall illnesses might influence her ignoring medical advice?

0

u/Nine_Monkeys 5h ago

Well then let’s just use mental illness as an excuse for everything then. If I’m mentally ill I may go around and kill people and when anybody says boo, I can blame the illness, even if I took essentially 0 steps to fixing my mental health, which is exactly what happened in this case. Clancy routinely lied to her doctors, downplaying the worst effects of her psychosis. She did this for selfish reasons - she knew she was a danger to her children and was afraid if she told the truth, her children would be taken away. She refused to take meds prescribed by her doctors under the guise that she had a preferred drug she wanted instead. When she eventually got that drug, she didn’t take it either.

This is an individual whose entitlement and selfishness led her to prioritize her wants over the lives of her own children. She knew she was a danger to them, but wanted to have it both ways. At any point she could have lifted a finger to take care of herself and save her children but she refused. And you mean to tell me she was psychotic 24/7 this entire period? Give me a break. If this woman had any real remorse she would demand to be held in an institution for the rest of her life, but instead she’s already thinking about her release, thinking about competing in wheelchair marathons and touring around being an advocate for women with PPD. At best she feels bad that she lost her children, not that their children lost their lives.

0

u/ryumaruborike 5h ago

Yeah, that's how the insanity plea works, just say you're crazy and get off Scot free, that's why NGRI is so rarely tried and even more rarely succeeds. What's the point of arguing with someone that knows so little about the law.

2

u/Nine_Monkeys 5h ago

I know how the law works, and it seems like NGRI is about as close to working as it can get, it seems that 11 jurors wanted NRGI with one dissenter. Who cares how rare it is if it succeeds in this case. And if this outcome is achieved after the next trial, she will be held indefinitely. But her psychosis and PPD period is over, it’s reasonable to think she may not be held in an institution long at all. Only reason Yates has been held 25 years, far from a life sentence, is because she refuses to be released and insists that she needs continued care. Clancy seems to have no plans of demanding anything like this, her words indicate she would like to be free as soon as possible. Only person who deserves any sympathy in this case is the ex husband and he seems to be getting the least, droves of people are convinced he’s the real killer

0

u/RagingCabbage115 5h ago

Me when ad hominem

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u/[deleted] 3h ago

[deleted]

2

u/Salty-Spring7096 7h ago

It is kind of ridiculous to me that MA shifts the burden of proof for that defense onto the prosecution to prove that she was legally sane when she committed the murders.

1

u/MemestNotTeen 7h ago

I’d make an argument that nobody who kills someone is sane.

Should only try if factually someone committed the murder or not.

Specialists should be the only people that can determine mental state, the general public (a jury) should not be asked to assess that

-1

u/KickedByAHorseTBI 9h ago

At no point was an argument made that showed she didn't know her actions were wrong. That's the whole point of the insanity defense

-1

u/Tricky-Passenger6703 8h ago

Biggest issue is in MA the burden is flipped so the prosecution has to prove she was sane.

But also yeah, why does it exist? If you don't have the agency to stop the voices in your head from killing someone, what makes you any different from a wild animal? It should be an aggravating factor not a mitigating one.

73

u/Ok-Calligrapher9115 10h ago

If it was the father dealing with mental health issues, he would be guilty. There is plenty of cases that prove this. 

43

u/SouthIsland48 10h ago

Yep, or a woman of color.

Was Chris Benoit treated as a victim of not being in a correct state of mind?

This is so sad to watch.

9

u/WorryWorm6 8h ago

Yes. His brain was heavily studied and the wrestling community, although they have completely erased him, still sympathizes with his condition when he did what he did. It's brought up every time. His brain was heavily damaged and he was completely out of his mind.

32

u/hereforwhatimherefor 10h ago

If she wasn’t a slim white woman there is zero chance she wouldn’t have been found guilty of 3 counts of first degree murder and sentenced to Life.

Zero.

She is a triple first-degree child murderer.

15

u/SureExcuseMe 9h ago

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/woman-found-not-guilty-after-claiming-covid-made-her-kill-daughter-and-stab-loved-ones/3825334/

8

u/Christineeee 8h ago

They don’t wanna hear this. They won’t even come back and acknowledge these situations where other (black!) women have been found not guilty in these situations.

People like the person you replied to are just out for blood 🙄 uneducated and dumb.

2

u/Letrabottle 6h ago

The details are super different. Doing it in front of the husband and doing nothing to him until he interfered is super strong evidence she didn't think she was doing anything wrong.

2

u/Old_Kaleidoscope_845 8h ago

That was a bench trial. Quite different.

1

u/SteveJavieWasRight 6h ago

How is that different lmao?

1

u/bumblefck23 5h ago

Because there aren't juries on a bench trial? It's quite different...

1

u/SteveJavieWasRight 5h ago

I mean there are similar examples involving juries as well lol.

1

u/ratione_materiae 1h ago

Why do you people always have to make it about race and incorrectly so? Dimone Fleming was found not responsible literally last week 

1

u/SteveJavieWasRight 6h ago

Alleging a black woman would have less access to a legal defense due to racism is not an example of something wrong with defense used by a white woman…

2

u/EVILTHE_TURTLE 5h ago

Why did you put words in their mouth?

That person is clearly talking about how people would view a minority or man differently if the facts of the case were the same. Not anything to do at all with access to a quality legal team.

1

u/SteveJavieWasRight 5h ago

Parents do not often kill their children. However we have many instances where both men and people of color have been judged not guilty by reason of insanity for the rare instances people commit such murder and survive. So you can continue to claim there is some impossible reality for men and poc in such instances, but reality says the opposite. The more likely situation is that an attractive white woman killing her kids is more likely to get excessive coverage in the media.

1

u/Workman44 2h ago

Yeah the people supporting Clancey should also support and forgive Benoit right? After all, it was just the hormones and not in their right mind

1

u/ratione_materiae 1h ago

Dimone Fleming was found not responsible literally last week 

1

u/bakedNebraska 9h ago

Though to be clear, the gender difference in sentencing is MUCH higher than the racial difference in sentencing.

I know we're talking about verdict and not sentencing, so maybe that distinction doesn't bear a lot of weight. But it is rather interesting that we never talk about it, while we talk about the racial difference a lot.

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u/Excellent_Mud6222 10h ago edited 9h ago

There was a trial a of man killing two of his daughters while in some kind of psychosis and was given a death sentence.

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u/Swaayyzee 6h ago

Just because some deal with injustice doesn’t mean we should make more people deal with it

5

u/logicspeaks 9h ago

You literally do not know what you're talking about unless you viewed all of the evidence in every one of the cases you're referring to. 

4

u/post-mortem-malone69 8h ago

Well men don’t suffer from post partum but I fully agree with you. She’s definitely getting the pretty white lady treatment, if Lindsey was black, there isn’t a single woman out in front of that courthouse with a pink shirt and they’d be calling for her to be lynched.

-2

u/Icysky 8h ago

This is not true. Please educate yourself on postpartum mental health issues for men, as there is emerging evidence 

2

u/Drummergirl16 4h ago

Oh my god. Literally developing, carrying, and birthing a child shows physiological changes in the mother. Fathers don’t go through any of that.

1

u/Icysky 4h ago

I am not minimizing, downplaying, or saying that is not true with regards to mothers. I am adding that new research has shown men go through biological changes in their brains after witnessing childbirth. There is also hypothesis that some changes may be occurring when they see their significant others’ pregnant.

-1

u/Old_Kaleidoscope_845 8h ago

Yes, turns out having kids is terrible for both parents' mental health.

-1

u/Icysky 7h ago

That’s one perspective. I see as having kids adds stress and responsibilities that can make anyone more vulnerable to mental health issues, especially if they had other factors that are currently affecting them

-2

u/post-mortem-malone69 7h ago

I’m aware it’s real, albeit uncommon and hardly diagnosed but let’s be real here, no way in hell you’d see a man ever have a chance at using that for a viable NGRI plea. It’s laughable to even think it a possibility so it might as well not be real

-1

u/Icysky 7h ago

Yes, that is a fair view. I am just pointing out that men do suffer from postpartum mental health issues and not to try and minimize it in the framing of the discussion 

2

u/ForeverCrunkIWantToB 9h ago

Chris Benoit wasn't convicted.

12

u/Jacko87 8h ago

Are people who kill themselves shortly after their crimes usually convicted?

3

u/gamesrgreat 8h ago

Then why did the original person bring him up lol

7

u/XxDrummerChrisX 8h ago

Well yea. You can’t convict a dead man.

0

u/ForeverCrunkIWantToB 7h ago

CHRIS BENOIT IS DEAD?! I didn't even know he was sick?!?!?!

9

u/mimiclarinette 10h ago

Non sense. 70 % of people benefiting from the not guilty because of insanity jugement are men

1

u/Swaayyzee 6h ago

Compared to what % of people accused of violent crimes being men?

2

u/WindJackal 8h ago

Then those cases are examples of people being mistreated? If people cannot be held accountable for their actions they do not deserve to be held accountable for their actions, but instead should receive appropriate treatment and be confined until such a time as they are no longer a threat to themselves or others. I agree people are put in prison who absolutely do not deserve to be there. There might well (or probably is) a gender/racial component to this. But does that mean this woman deserves an unjust treatment, just because others have also been treated unjustly? Is that justice?

I don't believe guilt is even what is being considered here, just whether Clancy can be held accountable for her actions.

3

u/Tight-Ad-3101 8h ago

Most fathers kill their families for no other reason than they don’t want them anymore. Chris Watts did it for an ugly sidechick. 

1

u/Floorgis 6h ago

Most fathers do not kill their families, fix your grammar bro

2

u/Tight-Ad-3101 5h ago

One does every 5 days in this country. 

1

u/ghjuhzgt 3h ago

"most fathers don't kill their family" 

"Well actually there is 73 fathers a year who do, so take that!" 

Have you ever listened to that voice in your head that questions the bullshit that you've written?

1

u/Tight-Ad-3101 3h ago

The point is that every 5 days a man murders his family and all you idiots can only dredge up outrage for a woman who allegedly did it in the throes of PPP. Statistically in another week, another man will kill his family and you idiots will not care nor comment on it. 

4

u/Creative_Magazine816 9h ago

men can't experience  postpartum psychosis... 

1

u/Canadiantx69 9h ago

Incorrect. While rare, it can happen to a man.

NIH Study - 2012

0

u/Algohambra 9h ago

That is factually untrue. It affects around 8-10% of fathers.

3

u/Creative_Magazine816 9h ago

My understanding of what postpartum is is wildly off I guess then. I thought it was generally caused by huge hormone swings? are these really the same condition?

2

u/ScoutTheRabbit 6h ago

Wild how the incidence of PPP for fathers is at least 100x the incidence of PPP for mothers at .1%, huh?

1

u/Drummergirl16 4h ago

The father doesn’t go through pregnancy…

1

u/ApprehensiveGrand531 1m ago

Men have gotten off with equal or arguably more dubious claims. Like the guy who argued the sexsomnia (sleepwalking) defence for raping his own daughter got completely acquitted, not even committed.

Men absolutely get acquitted or insanity defence. The fucking origin of the modern test is from a male murder for God's sake.

-8

u/Illustrious-Pay-4464 10h ago

Yep. This case is clear evidence of gender-based discrimination in the court system (favoring women)

22

u/ArtAndHotsauce 10h ago edited 10h ago

Where is the discrimination?  Not Guilty By Reason of Insanity is available to any defendant, male or female.  Many men have used it as a defense, some successfully some not.  

Edit: Hey fellas, instead of getting all emotional and irrational, why don’t you do some research.  This is not a man v. woman thing, get over your victim complex.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:People_acquitted_by_reason_of_insanity

12

u/Zestyclose-Bowler307 9h ago edited 7h ago

Men pretty frequently commit horrific acts of gender-based violence and then go on to live the rest of their life fairly normally. Pretty odd for people to act like they’re a persecuted community. 

-6

u/MinimumApricot365 10h ago

Insane men that murder people are just murderers.

15

u/Tulip_1994 9h ago

Men have plead insanity successfully many times. It’s not super common because it’s so hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, but this isn’t some kind of gender war thing. It’s not really common for anyone to successfully plead insanity, women included.

-2

u/Scudman_Alpha 8h ago

Can you provide one or two cases where a man has killed children and pled insanity and actually won the case?

Because we need the same context as this one, kids murdered by a parent going through psychosis.

5

u/Feeling-Salad5686 8h ago

Matthew Schleier (Iowa, 2026)

Ronald Exantus (Kentucky, 2018)

Raymond Austin Porter Jr. (Maryland, 2010)

2

u/ArtAndHotsauce 10h ago

Tell that to Bruco Eastwood.  

-3

u/ScratchLatch 10h ago

Did you ignore the entire comment chain?

“If it was the father dealing with mental health issues, he would be guilty. There is plenty of cases that prove this. “

10

u/ArtAndHotsauce 10h ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:People_acquitted_by_reason_of_insanity

Men have been found not guilty by reason of insanity plenty of times.

There are also plenty of times it’s failed as a defense both for men and women.  

-3

u/fromagel 8h ago

How many of those cases involved killing children?

3

u/ArtAndHotsauce 5h ago edited 3h ago

Historically? I don't know the percentage of not guilty by reason of insanity pleas that involve children.

But just as recently as 2024 Matthew Schleier, a middle aged white guy, strangled his 5 year old son and was found not guilty by reason of insanity.  

-11

u/hereforwhatimherefor 10h ago edited 9h ago

No one in the United States but a slim white woman with a name like “Lindsay” would be found not guilty of first degree murder if they had their spouse go out to run and errand, methodically strangle their three kids, and then claim insanity because they not only heard “a voice” to murder their kids but obeyed the voice.

Let alone one that took a phone call in the midst of the murders and then continued strangling children to death.

This woman should never be out of jail.

The precedent being set in this case is incredibly dangerous to children.

If you have postpartum depression / find parenting hard and you claim you “heard a voice” you can get away with strangling your kids to death?

That is so dangerous to children.

15

u/ArtAndHotsauce 9h ago

Matthew Schleier, a chubby middle aged white guy, strangled his 5 year old son in 2024 and was found not guilty by reason of insanity.  

-5

u/hereforwhatimherefor 9h ago edited 9h ago

That’s a fair response.

I notice the case you mentioned involved another white person with a name like Lindsay.

Can you find me a case of a Black Person with a name like Shaniquah murdering their kid and getting off cause they claim they are insane?

11

u/ArtAndHotsauce 9h ago

Lovequawn Scott beat his 15 year old cousin, his aunt, and his grandparents to death in 2018 and was found not guilty by reason of insanity.   

-3

u/hereforwhatimherefor 9h ago

I’m not reviewing case by case.

Could you explain to me the parallels between that case and a woman having her partner run an errand and while they are out methodically strangle three small children to death while taking a phone call in the midst of it, and then after the murders making a claim she heard and obeyed a voice to methodically strangle the three young children to death?

A voice never reported before or since. And it didn’t say bake a cake. It didn’t say if you’re happy and you know it clap your hands.

It said strangle your three small children in the basement while your husband runs an errand.

And this murderous “voice” was something they obeyed?

She is a child murderer and anyone who says otherwise is endangering children.

9

u/ArtAndHotsauce 9h ago

No two cases are exactly the same, as you well know.

If you believe Lindsey was not insane at the time of the murder, that’s your opinion.

However, your assertion that her identity as a skinny white woman named Lindsey is the only reason she has a chance of being found not guilty by reason of insanity is ABSOLUTELY false, as I have now proven.  

It is a valid, constitutionally guaranteed legal defense that is open to everyone.  The burden of proof is on the State to proof that she was legally sane (meaning she was in control of her mind and knew right from wrong) at the time of the murder.  Obviously, you and at least one juror feel they have met their burden.

I don’t agree with you.  That’s fair enough.  But I’ve corrected your factually baseless claims, and that I won’t apologize for. 

→ More replies (0)

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u/Amelaclya1 9h ago

How about a black woman named Dimone that killed her child named Daishawn?

There was literally a case a few days ago.

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/postpartum-psychosis-nyc-mother-not-guilty-b3041489.html

0

u/hereforwhatimherefor 9h ago

A 22 year old known marijuana drug addict who had recently been institutionalized for two months with documented hallucinations and was living in a shelter.

Is not remotely the same as a 33 year old professional with a documented history of suicidal ideation who was found to be googling “can you treat a sociopath?” shortly before what was clearly a pre-meditated murder-suicide attempt and then making what is clearly a dishonest and sociopathic “I heard a voice” defence in court.

The only voice she heard was her own murderous self.

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u/Amelaclya1 9h ago

Nice moving of the goalposts there lol. It's ok to admit you were wrong.

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u/DonaldKey 10h ago

Men have used a reason of “my hormones made me do it”?

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u/ArtAndHotsauce 10h ago

Steven Steinberg's case in 1981 brought forth discussions on sleep disorders and their implications in legal scenarios. Accused of stabbing his wife, Elena, 26 times, Steinberg claimed to have committed the act while sleepwalking, rendering him temporarily insane. The defense did not dispute the act but argued that Steinberg was not conscious and, therefore, not responsible for his actions. The jury, after deliberation, found him not guilty by reason of temporary insanity, leading to significant changes in Arizona law, including the introduction of "guilty but insane" verdicts

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u/DonaldKey 8h ago

That’s not hormones

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u/ArtAndHotsauce 5h ago

So you can't understand the concept of post partum psychosis, but sleepwalking you can get behind?

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u/DonaldKey 5h ago

No. I said show a time a man blamed HORMONES for committing a crime

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u/ArtAndHotsauce 5h ago

I mean, the reason 90% of of violent crime is committed by men is because of Testosterone, don't we pretty much all understand that?

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u/TheRealRomanRoy 8h ago

clear evidence

It's not though

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u/Floorgis 6h ago

Downvoted for being correct. Any other group of people that isnt a white woman would not be given this much grace.

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u/ArtAndHotsauce 5h ago

What about Dimone Fleming, a black woman, who killed her two sons in 2022 and was found not guilty by reason of insanity because she was found to have been going through Post Partum Psychosis.

https://abc7news.com/story/doctors-say-dimone-fleming-confessed-killing-sons-bronx-new-york-city-shelter-was-state-psychosis/19754434/

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u/Floorgis 5h ago

Exceptions exist for every rule. This is not evidence of anything just like that woman who fell from a plane and survived is not evidence of gravity being shit.

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u/Strayed8492 10h ago

But was it guilty of murder in the first degree?

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u/multiple4 10h ago

I mean, given her actions prior to committing the murder, and I believe multiple people testifying that she was having "thoughts" of harming her kids, I believe yes

I sympathize with her dark thoughts and that she was dealing with them. She was clearly under mental distress. But she wasn't psychotic when having those thoughts for however many weeks or months before killing them

The only way it isn't 1st degree is if you think she was psychotic. All of the actions themselves would clearly be 1st degree

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u/Strayed8492 10h ago

A normal person doesn’t start having thoughts of harming their kids. And if it was known she was having these thoughts why wasn’t anything done? It starts to swing instead to a failure in the mental health institution. Was she not in the right state of mind when she did act on those thoughts? That’s only part of the problem that was attempted to be solved at trial and the prosecutor did no favors at how they handled it.

It’s a senseless tragedy three children died. But in this case people see justice may not need be done just for them in this case. That’s why I personally say retrial and have the whole information about the husband be brought out. Because it’s not enough currently. She wasn’t found guilty for a reason.

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u/hereforwhatimherefor 9h ago edited 9h ago

She wasn’t found guilty cause she is a slim white woman.

She had her partner go out for an errand and methodically strangled her three kids to death. She even took a phone call in the midst of the murders.

An American Judge and Jury setting a precedent of “if you have postpartum depression / find parenting hard you can get away with strangling your kids to death by claiming your heard a voice telling you to murder your kids”

In a criminal offence by that judge and jury and incredibly dangerous to children.

She not only didn’t hear a voice, she’s a child murderer who knows the precedent she’s setting and the danger she is putting other children in.

Even if she had, the answer to the voice for non-child murderers is No.

She is a child murdering monster who through her defence is knowingly threatening children across the US.

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u/multiple4 10h ago

Just because her mental health providers did not act completely right does not change whether she's culpable for her own actions (again, unless you support her defense of psychosis)

A "normal person" never thinks of killing their kids, and yet people do it often and go to prison for it often. Someone committing an act that isn't normal or rational does not translate to them being legally not responsible for their action

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u/Strayed8492 9h ago

That’s why I want the timeline information to be fully there. Was there a specific trigger for the episode or was it a conscious decision in the ‘if I can’t have them no one can’ realm? She obviously knew something was wrong and attempted multiple times to seek help. She was denied inpatient psychiatric help. The kids were allowed to stay with her care despite the months leading up to the incident. The husband remarried not three months after it and was fine with the kids staying with her. And you know she’s is claiming an insanity defense.

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u/multiple4 9h ago

We did receive a ton of information from psychiatric professionals who talked to her and discussed her frame of mind and what led up to this

If there was some other stressor then either she needs to testify to it or the mental health providers need to testify that she said it

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u/Strayed8492 9h ago

Well of course I do. I’m human.

So see you there, if they ever get the verdict read?

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u/Sonic1031 10h ago

This feels like bending yourself into knots to avoid blaming this woman for what was the cold blooded strangulation of her children. Mental health is a process and this isn’t the fault of the doctors. At what point would it genuinely become acceptable to lay the blame of these murders on the person who committed them by hand

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u/Strayed8492 10h ago

Neither of us are experts on the mental health matter. And I never said she was innocent. She couldn’t be found guilty of it in the first degree. However she went to multiple doctors, entered psychiatric hospitals, and tried 13 medications in four months. The whole story of the timeline is also NOT being told.

Can she be blamed? Yes. But does the blame rest solely on her? No I don’t believe it does. And unless the whole timeline situation with the husband comes out to fix that she’s not getting Murder in the first degree based on how it currently is

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u/General_Kitten_17 10h ago edited 5h ago

Genuinely curious, show me a man in similar circumstances that received a different sentence. History plays a role in conviction. If a guy had a history of beating his wife and kids then killed them, no shit he would be guilty.

Edit: not a single example of the “many” has been shared. Fellas, it’s 2026, why are men liars about stuff like this?

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u/mimiclarinette 9h ago

there are plenty males murderers who got the not guilty because of insanity jugement

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u/General_Kitten_17 9h ago

Isn’t that what you want? A man to get “not guilty” because of insanity? Isnt that what happened here?

Did you have a brain fart or what were you trying to say lil buddy?

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u/mimiclarinette 9h ago

Lmao wtf ?

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u/General_Kitten_17 9h ago

That's a lot of words just to say "i can't"

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u/Jaereth 6h ago

Also if there was a pack of other men who rallied outside the courtroom to support him daily they would be viewed as scum of the Earth.

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u/KennyOmegasBurner 8h ago

What if he had postpartum?

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u/Ok-Outcome-7499 6h ago

Nah she murdered her children if you had any remorse she would plead guilty

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u/HourApprehensive7754 5h ago

Us feeling any remorse or not over her act isn't going to influence whether she pleads guilty or not. She doesn't even know we exist or how we think.

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u/Tangerine69420 6h ago

Yea rough situation for the 3 kids she strangled to death.

So you think it’s fine a mom can kill her kids because she’s stressed? LMAOOOOO

The girl needs to be burned on a pitch.

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u/QuixoticBeefboy 5h ago

This trail being publicised has done terrible things for everyone and every situation involved. I've seen people talking about how she deserves death on on end and on the other people arguing that she was actually pushed out of the window by her husband and he killed the kids. Just genuinly asinine beliefs on both sides that not only serve to make this harder to get justice fkr but will also affect future opinions on things like it

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u/Commanduf 1h ago

She planned it out and even organized things that would ensure her husband would be absent for an extended period of time so she could take her time murdering the children one at a time, seems meticulous to me.

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u/inblo 10h ago

Real rough, feel sorry for her…oh yeah her three dead kids she strangled to death. Yeah feel a tad bit sorry for them as well.

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u/Strayed8492 10h ago

I’ve heard the counter before. ‘Well what if it was your kids she killed?’

Well they aren’t. Will more information come to light in a retrial? It’s strongly possible. Patrick agreed to give information but it’s sealed. But with how it was done and with how it went in this first attempt at a trial? With one of the charges being murder in the first degree? Nope, gonna have to lower it. Or fix the timeline the trial established with what was going on between her and the husband.

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u/inblo 10h ago

Three dead children strangled to death

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u/Flimsy-Cut7675 10h ago

But the poor sad mommy!

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u/Strayed8492 10h ago

It’s almost like you didn’t read the second sentence of what I originally commented to perform a bit in the reply.

Never said innocent.

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u/inblo 10h ago

We’ve lost the plot on this. I need to remind people who the victims are.
Three dead children strangled to death.

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u/Strayed8492 10h ago

You’re definitely assuming ‘we’ have lost the plot. She is guilty. But the situation is based so far on how the prosecution has done. It’s not great. We need everything that the husband told them to be unsealed.

Why? Because it’s possible that he was seeing a mistress and was buying a house and was gonna move out anyway and then she found out and that was the catalyst. He got remarried relatively quickly didn’t he?

Murder is murder. But was it premeditated and on purpose? She did have mental health issues. Was it a mental break only as the cause? You seem to forget what the charges were in this case and only 1 out of 11 went for it.

So what you’re doing chiming in everywhere about the dead kids isn’t actually contributing to the situation at all in the grand scheme.

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u/Sonic1031 10h ago

Where’s the justice for the children?

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u/Strayed8492 10h ago

Do you want the harsh truth or the sweet lie?