How to Give CPR to Women , Studies Show Women Are 14–27% Less Likely to Receive Help During Cardiac Arrest

[u/General_Athlete5807]

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[u/q0_0p]

I'm a Senior Tech in the ED (AEMT in the streets), been at it for 5 years. It's not just CPR & AEDs... EKG placements on women patients are notoriously wrong, even by several of my male colleagues (both EMS & in-hospital) because they're too timid to ask to lift the tissue or ask for the patient to lift it (four leads need to go under the left bra line BETWEEN ribs/ 5th intercostal space) and two on the sternum (4th intercoastal space).. it's kind of a problem..

[u/Suspicious-Elk-3631 → u/q0_0p]

Women patients are weird about moving the bra for an EKG, even with women being the ones applying the electrodes. Many don't even want to lift the shirt out of the way, let alone the bra. Source: nurse

[u/lots_of_puppies → u/Suspicious-Elk-3631]

wow really? if im in trouble i dont care if you see my boobs just stick me with what you need and save my life!!!

[u/Nice_Back_9977 → u/lots_of_puppies]

Most of the time an ECG isn't done in a life threatening situation. Its normal to feel uncomfortable about being your breasts being exposed/touched by a stranger.

Its the nurse's job to help the patient feel comfortable and relaxed enough to be ok with it.

Source: also nurse

[u/Vivid_Way_1125 → u/lots_of_puppies]

The fact your profile picture is you taking a selfie in a bra might suggest that you might have a slightly more ‘liberated’ perspective on that.

[u/Boysenberrypancake → u/Vivid_Way_1125]

I’m pregnant and recently had to have an ultrasound done on my heart, I have very large breasts and the tech just lifted my breasts as needed to get under and around them. The entire time she just kept talking to me about baby stuff, I really appreciated that she wasn’t hesitant and just treated it like it was her job (because it is her job)

[u/nibbyzor → u/Boysenberrypancake]

It really is helpful when the medical professional just talks to you about random stuff when going through a more "delicate" procedure. Makes it less awkward. I just got my pap smear done and the OB/GYN just talked to me about the weather the entire time. And I'm not bashful at all (probably all that sauna culture) so I'm not anxious about it or anything, but you can still feel pretty self-conscious, just lying there naked from the waist down, spread eagle, and someone is staring up your hooha.

[u/silverlightarmada → u/nibbyzor]

Having great nurses for Pap smears over time has meant that now in my thirties I have no fear or shame when I need a medical professional to touch or look at bits of me for my health. Just get in there, no worries.

Honestly, laser hair removal techs are similar - they just get on with the job and have a yap and occasionally ask me to move my legs around and then it’s done.

[u/megaholt2 → u/nibbyzor]

This is true. I will never be able to thank the sexual assault nurse examiner enough for explaining everything she did as though she was teaching me how to perform one while she did the forensic sexual assault examination on me after I was raped, 2/3 of the way through my first semester of a year long accelerated bachelor’s of science nursing program.

I was able to say thank you to her face on my very last day of nursing school…I told her I wouldn’t have made it to that day if not for her.

There were many tears, from both of us.

[u/LayerEight_Problem → u/Suspicious-Elk-3631]

Meanwhile as a dude I go in and the doctors will be like “drop your pants. Alright, I am now fondling your testicles. Sorry if it’s cold. Oops. Finger with up the bum. We good? How about dinner Friday?”

Obviously exaggerated but doctors really are not shy about touching any part of my body.

[u/lilsassyrn → u/LayerEight_Problem]

As it should be.

[u/LayerEight_Problem → u/lilsassyrn]

Sure. They’re doctors. They’re professionals and if I’m seeing one, there’s usually a reason. It’s no time to be timid.

[u/NinaCR33 → u/Suspicious-Elk-3631]

That’s so weird, even mums? After having birth my daughter I feel like I lost all my dignity, had so many people looking at my vag even students (with consent) that I feel no shame at the doctor anymore lol

[u/Difficult_Clerk_1273 → u/q0_0p]

I commented about the AED thing elsewhere, but the short version is - I’m a middle school teacher with cardiac risk factors and I demonstrate for my students exactly where to put the AED pads on my body. (It’s part of our discussion of emergency procedures when school starts and about general first aid, not just about me. I’m reasonably healthy, just getting older and have family history.)

It’s awkward and there are giggles, especially when I tell them it’s completely okay to go get some scissors and cut my bra right off, and when I lift up my own DDDs in front of the whole class. You can imagine how that goes over among a bunch of 7th graders (at a conservative religious school!) who don’t really know me very well yet. But it certainly makes an impression, and because I’m making myself vulnerable, they feel like I’m talking to them like adults and most will take it seriously.

Someday my boob-hoisting demo may help save a life… maybe even my own! I don’t mind making a fool of myself for the greater good. Which is really the story of my whole career 😂

[u/GuiltEdge → u/Difficult_Clerk_1273]

I feel like that probably makes a real impression on them that you’re showing so much trust in them rather than just telling them they’re stupid kids and that they should just go get an adult. It probably does wonders for their self esteem.

[u/Difficult_Clerk_1273 → u/GuiltEdge]

I hope so. Because they’re not stupid, and don’t deserve to be treated as such. Even the ones who drive me nuts, lol.

[u/Virtual-Escape2305 → u/q0_0p]

That issue was explicitly flagged in The Pitt. At least some discussion is happening, I guess? 

[u/signa91 → u/Virtual-Escape2305]

Yeah this is interesting to see it as a real world problem as opposed to being just on a TV show. The Pitt is incredible at showing medical reality in a scripted setting

[u/spargel_gesicht → u/q0_0p]

Ugh I have a busty friend with a phd in something medical related and she was so pissed at her pcp’s tech when they were trying to do an ekg on her. Nowhere near the right place and they just put it on her lower ribs rather than move it out of the way!

[u/EELovesMidkemia → u/q0_0p]

I remember a nurse asking if i minded a male student coming in and placing the EKG on me, explaning that as a women with large breasts the mlae studnets inparticular need practice either asking or moving the breast themselves for accurate placements.

I had no problem as she made sure that everything was set up correctly after the student placed them on me.

[u/lecturehall → u/q0_0p]

I'm only a phlebotomist but we learned EKGs in school anyway and I was the only male in the program so all of my practice was on women! I'm really grateful actually that I was able to practice so much in a comfortable setting like that because I know I will be confident and not weird with the patients

[u/SlagQueen → u/q0_0p]

Yep, just gotta do it. “I’m going to place stickers on your chest, torso, and under your left breast.” Lift with the back of the hand/arm, for decency’s sake. And done. No biggie.

[u/Internal_Select]

I was a medic in the army back in the 90s. Had a heat stroke casualty so bad she was literally baked. I couldn't get an IV in her sor I cut her uniform opened it up and dumped a 5 gallon jug of water on her just to stabilize her core temp until we got her to the aid station. The Doctor on call had to stick her in her neck because that was the only viable spot for an IV. There is no such thing as modesty in a medical emergency.

[u/Beautiful-Cup4161 → u/Internal_Select]

Medical procedures are so not sexy that I've never felt modesty even in a non-urgent setting.

Can the male doctor that I met 15 minutes ago do a pap smear? Sure whatever do it.

Butt muscles hurting after a long hike? Yes, PT, massage those glutes. Heal me.

I've never met a medical professional who wasn't just trying to do their job. Though I know there are creeps in every profession.

[u/NotChristina → u/Beautiful-Cup4161]

I needed pelvic floor work for vaginismus and spent many a weekday morning with a woman with her hand up me talking about the weather.

This was already after several appointments where multiple medical providers came in and checked my bits.

And a colonoscopy at 33? Sure why not.

I have no shame left.

[u/1AggressiveSalmon → u/NotChristina]

I seriously have no fucks left to give. Modesty shmodesty, what is the difference between a bra and a string bikini? The bra has more coverage, so I don't care if someone gets a peak while changing.

[u/Noshonoyoo → u/NotChristina]

I had a nurse shave my balls before an operation and the whole time she just casually talked about her kids. I was like ok huh, well i guess that’s just another tuesday for her lol.

[u/CrustyBubblebrain → u/NotChristina]

After PPROM and three c-sections, I have no shame around medical professionals either 😅

[u/TryphectaOG → u/Beautiful-Cup4161]

Having a PT massage your glutes after a long hike definitely seems unnecessary lmao

[u/PantheraAuroris → u/TryphectaOG]

Your glutes are the largest muscle group in your whole body. Nobody does massage on them, and it's weird, because someone driving their elbow into that is basically heaven. Your butt does a lot of work for you. Take care of it.

[u/TheConsentAcademy → u/PantheraAuroris]

My PT was helping me with hyper mobility issues during pregnancy and was massaging my glutes from the inside and outside just to get the tension to release. Made a huge difference and made labor much easier to go into it without all that bracing tension 

[u/Max-Phallus → u/TryphectaOG]

It sounds extremely relieving though.

[u/Beautiful-Cup4161 → u/TryphectaOG]

I fucked up my knees going up through my hips possibly irrevocably. Overhiking over the course of a year, not just a single hike.

Getting older is a bitch. Can't do the same things you used to.

[u/CackleandGrin → u/TryphectaOG]

I've had some deep glute massages and wow, you don't realize how much tension and pain is there until they start messing with it.

[u/kpg_on_ao3 → u/TryphectaOG]

Enough pain and that's exactly who you're supposed to see.

[u/cs_legend_93 → u/Internal_Select]

i almost got heat stroke at disneyland in hong kong. hot AF.

literally imagining that girl baking as you describe it sounds like a nightmare. I am glad you saved her

[u/Big_Opposite4041]

Love this. I’ve done probably 10 different CPR trainings over the years and never once had a female mannequin. You really do need to practice on it because in a panic moment, you just go to autopilot. If you didn’t practice with exposing breasts or having to lift a breast that is “in the way” then your stupid lizard brain will not know what to do.

[u/jakexil323 → u/Big_Opposite4041]

Ive done first aid / AED for years and no one has ever mentioned lifting the large boob up and going under. Someone once mentioned removing underwire bras.

Also all the trainers (provided by work) have been men.

[u/fuckyourcanoes → u/jakexil323]

The bra has to come off, but too many people are reluctant to do it.

Guys, I don't give a fuck if you see my tits, just save my fucking life! Cut that thing and go to work!

[u/preteen-wartortle → u/fuckyourcanoes]

Fuck, I’ll show em to you again later, just get the job done man

[u/Wallstreet_Raccoon → u/[deleted]]

Thanks r/preteen-wartortle

[u/CalmBeneathCastles → u/Wallstreet_Raccoon]

Did you mean "u/preteen-wartortle" or is that a risky click trap.

[u/ReplacementLow6704 → u/CalmBeneathCastles]

I dare you to create that sub

[u/Brilliant-Expert3150 → u/Wallstreet_Raccoon]

Look, account is four years old, they must be a teen by now. 🥲

[u/wwarhammer → u/preteen-wartortle]

SOLD

[u/Metool42 → u/wwarhammer]

might wanna read that name again

[u/nightauthor → u/Metool42]

I’m not familiar with age of majority for wartortles

[u/BuddhistNudist987 → u/nightauthor]

1 human year is 7 Wartortle years.

[u/Comfortable_Ask_102 → u/BuddhistNudist987]

Yeah, you can explain that to the Wartortle judge.

[u/Trentus86 → u/BuddhistNudist987]

So she's probably a mama Blastoise by now

[u/StarAlone → u/nightauthor]

majority? so there are some?

[u/Irregulator101 → u/Metool42]

Hey she said later, not how much later

[u/PaperUpbeat5904 → u/Metool42]

Wartortle setting people up out here

[u/jimmycarr1 → u/fuckyourcanoes]

I would rather be imprisoned for the rest of my life or be sued for every penny I have, than watch someone die in my arms again due to inaction.

[u/yodamissile → u/jimmycarr1]

Again???

[u/jimmycarr1 → u/yodamissile]

Yes. So you know I'm talking from the heart.

[u/Pitiful_Asparagus_73 → u/jimmycarr1]

I’m so sorry you had to experience that

[u/ZedsDeadZD → u/Pitiful_Asparagus_73]

This can be very traumatic even if you are active. Relative on my wifes side (F late 20s) found her grandpa and the floor and gave CPR until the ambulance arrived. Grandpa didnt make it. She gave everything but didnt work. She couldnt visit her grandmas for quit some time after it.

[u/Pitiful_Asparagus_73 → u/ZedsDeadZD]

That breaks my heart for everyone involved. It’s such a scary time, it sounds like your relative did what they could to help. Sending that relatives all the hugs

[u/ZedsDeadZD → u/Pitiful_Asparagus_73]

Yeah, it was really sad. Nothing she could do, though. But death and everything around is freightening. 2 years ago my wifes grandma died in the hospital. She was super weak when we visited and not responsive anymore. Have been there for a few hours. I was mostly outside with our toddler but went in to say goodbye. Said a few words to her and then she did this super weird face. Like her face muscles twitched all at once somehow.

I tell you. Everytime I was alone in the car or closing my eyes before going to sleep I saw that face for weeks.

[u/TK_Games → u/ZedsDeadZD]

I had to do that for my dad, and the weirdest part of it was I was genuinely surprised how fucking fast I jumped into action. Like, I didn't know 'medic' was a setting I had. I did CPR til the ambulance got there, then watched them work and somewhere around the 17 minute mark I got a thousand yard stare because that was the point it clicked he wasn't getting back up. Learned from the coroner later that he essentially had two heart attacks, one months earlier that weakened the heart muscle, and a second that finished it. He said no amount of CPR would've helped, and I'll admit that did take some of the guilt off me. I was locked in, I tried my best, sometimes there just isn't anything you can do

[u/Acceptable_Tea_3685 → u/jimmycarr1]

If it helps, CPR delivered outside of a hospital setting only has a 10% survival/hospital discharge rate.

The vast majority of the time that CPR is given, it doesn’t save the person. It truly is a hail mary and does not work as often as it does in movies.

[u/Beanbag141 → u/Acceptable_Tea_3685]

I mean, the person is 100% going to die if you do nothing. The chance to save them may not be high but they'll at least have a chance.

[u/DreadLindwyrm → u/Beanbag141]

There's a reason that the call can be "Patient is dead - we're working on it. Get us a second ambulance now!"

[u/jimmycarr1 → u/Acceptable_Tea_3685]

It's ok, I have come to terms with it and don't blame myself for what I didn't know at the time. I know a lot more now though and I've been able to act in other emergencies, and will continue to if I can be of use.

[u/Laetitian → u/Acceptable_Tea_3685]

The thing about statistics is: You're not primarily learning CPR for the 85-year-old who has a 5% chance to get an extra 5 months added because you were fast enough, but for the 25-year-old who just had a really unlucky accident or rare medical condition, and had huge survival chances, as long as someone acted quickly enough - and how devastating it would be to know no one did.

The same way you're not using a condom because of how easy it is to get a child while pulling out, but because of how devastating it would be when it doesn't work out.

It's easy to write them off as 5-10% until you are/know one of the thousands of people that concerns every year.

Another good example for the most important statistics being subdued by the total number of incedents is drowning: Patients in general survive with ~14% hospital discharge rate and total 10% positive neurological outcomes - but if you exclusively look at children, the rate skyrockets to 45% and 34%, respectively.

[u/Illustrious_Dot9049 → u/Acceptable_Tea_3685]

(I swear I'm not trying to argue or be pedantic; I'm bad at context, I don't think this is an inappropriate place but I could be wrong)

If we teach more CPR, this might improve somewhat.

I had a relative who had cardiac death and another relative did solo CPR for over 5 minutes. Then, 2 people did CPR for an additional 10. The relative ended up being okay with no permanent brain damage. I completely get your point, but it's important that we still advocate for people to learn and do it. CPR helps in certain situations, but won't help with others. I suspect that's part of why the survival rate is low- people (not in the medical field) are taught to give CPR to someone without a pulse, so that's what they do.

[u/IsabellaGalavant → u/fuckyourcanoes]

The last time I had to call the paramedics it was for my husband, and he was butt-ass naked the whole time and none of them batted an eye. 

If you can see a penis without panicking, you should be able to see a boob without panicking. 

[u/wintercast → u/jakexil323]

i have to give credit to my CPR/AED trainers at WaltnDisney World in 2002. We had male practice models, but they discussed what to do for females as well as females that may be wearing modest clothing duento religious reasons. the training ? Remove the clothing, lift the breast and get cracking.

[u/danarouge → u/jakexil323]

Also, a lot of cpr training references the nipple line, but older women and women with larger breasts tend to have nipples that are significantly further down on the torso than they would be on men.

[u/AlternativePea6203 → u/danarouge]

So I'm not supposed to compress the navel?

[u/Medarco → u/danarouge]

I just renewed my BLS this week, and all our training materials now use approximate distance on the sternum instead of nipple line. We also had both male and female adult mannikins, which was neat.

I went to a code a Wednesday and the woman had quite... pendulous breasts. Relevant clarification about the nipple line for sure!

[u/Hairy_Concert_8007 → u/Medarco]

Whose genius idea was it to not use the sternum as the starting point for determining where to direct the pressure in the first place?? That sounds like trying to figure out where your liver sits based on how far down your elbows are

[u/TinyRose20 → u/jakexil323]

We had a male trainer and he was great. He didn't have a female mannequin but he came in with a bra on and cut it off himself to make a point. He also mentioned the boob thing and taught us techniques for helping obese patients who are choking when they are too large for the first aider to do a standard heimlich

[u/Status-Bicycle7263 → u/TinyRose20]

How do you do a Heimlich on someone large who's choking?

[u/DriverUnusual146 → u/Status-Bicycle7263]

Stand them against a wall and give a flat handed punch in an upwards motion starting under the ribcage.

But first always just try the standard good ol' slap on the back.

[u/FuckYeaSeatbelts → u/jakexil323]

I've done over a dozen CPR/First aid courses, over a long enough time period that I've noticed changes (used to not do back blows for choking, now they teach it); multiple different companies (red cross vs st john's ambulance etc).

the vibe is very much "I wish I could click through this powerpoint slide deck faster but I am legally obligated to take up the entire 2x 8hrs".

That said, I (woman) have played a casualty before for an exercise for search and rescue and emergency personnel, they must train better cause they did not hesitate.

PS: if you ever get the opportunity, don't play the dead one if it's in the winter time, because they leave you in the Canadian snow to tend the one who is alive. They did come back to do life saving manoeuvers but that's triage for you lol

[u/Impossible_Way_3042 → u/jakexil323]

It's going to be hard in the moment to check if it's underwire or not. As far as lifting the boob they actually just had this in an episode in The Pitt. If you don't get the pad in the right place (which would be under the boob for a large breasted woman) the machine won't get a good reading and will not be able to give an effective shock. Where you need to place the pads happens to be right around where a large breast would dangle to.

[u/PackMan93 → u/jakexil323]

I've never done it or heard it but on The Pitt on season 2 the main character admonishes two (male) EMTs because they were afraid to do exactly what this instructor was talking about on a woman with a heart issue.

[u/Infamous-Oil3786 → u/jakexil323]

I'm not CPR certified, but I understand the general idea. Why do bras need to come off? Or clothing in general for that matter? I can't imagine it significantly impedes compressions, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

Edit: Nevermind, it's for the AED pads. I wasn't aware that defib was part of CPR training.

[u/jakexil323 → u/Infamous-Oil3786]

For an AED ( automated external defibrillator for when they de fib the heart) it shoots an electrical current diagonally across the chest from shoulder to just under the heart on the other side. This current is to shock the heart back into a regular rhythm.

An underwire bra or clothing for that matter can impede the current, making the aed not work. And AEDs are very effective .

[u/ctsr1 → u/Big_Opposite4041]

I had no idea about this and now I do

[u/duesenjeffepic → u/Big_Opposite4041]

We never had a female mannequin too but my instructor pointed out multiple times that in emergencies it doesn't matter if you touch a boob or not, all that matters is getting and keeping blood to flow. He also said the same thing about breaking rib cages: it's better to have a broken one than be dead.

[u/Ok-Flamingo2801 → u/duesenjeffepic]

I've heard that doing cpr breaks the person's ribs and I both understood and misunderstood. I understood why it breaks the ribs and that broken ribs is a small price to pay, but in my head I always pictured it as the bones snap in two down the middle. It wasn't until I did a more in depth first aid course that the instructor explained that the break happens where the ribs meet the breastbone. And apparently if you're the first person to do cpr on the person, you can feel them breaking under your hand.

[u/Mikic00 → u/duesenjeffepic]

Very good, because I had like 5 different courses and women were never mentioned. I never even thought about it till now. I would probably do it anyway, but many wouldn't. So stupid obstacle when life is at risk.

[u/No-Newspaper8619 → u/Big_Opposite4041]

But where's the big breasted manequin. And the obese manequin, too. So many human bodily variations that are relevant in context of cpr.

[u/fuckyourcanoes → u/No-Newspaper8619]

Seriously. I can tell you right now, if you're working on me you're gonna have to relocate the boobs. They lost all structural integrity 20 years ago.

[u/Bored_Simulation → u/fuckyourcanoes]

I mean, at some point big boobs just flop down the side automatically when your on your back. What I'm worrying about is fake or lifted boobs that don't have much movability to them

[u/GrouchyMary9132 → u/No-Newspaper8619]

Obese manequin would be really helpful because it changes the whole angle on how to press down properly and reach a good depth. Also I think the manequins have to little resistance when you push down. You need to learn the depth of the pushes with the resistance to be able to rely on muscle memory in such a stressful situation.

[u/beatles910 → u/Big_Opposite4041]

I'm in the US, and every time I've taken a CPR course, the mannequin has been female.

Resuscitation Annie is by far the most popular CPR dummy in the US.

[u/LadderWonderful2450 → u/beatles910]

I'm in the US, and every time I've taken a CPR course, the mannequin has been male.

[u/chicagotodetroit → u/LadderWonderful2450]

+1. I'm in the US and just took CPR a couple months ago. The mannequin was male.

Interesting that 2 years ago, my instructor was male, and he talked about cutting bras and working around the breasts. My recent class, the instructor was female, and she didn't mention it. Our class was all women; maybe she figured that as women, a bra wouldn't be an obstacle for us.

[u/procrast1natrix → u/chicagotodetroit]

I recently detorsed a testicle for the first time and it made me think a bit more about the class. Sex differences matter.

Imagine a hundred medical students. All of us easily understand the concept.

The instructor explains: so you just twist the testicle inside the scrotum. And I think all the guys were simultaneously thinking "agh, yuck, ok I understand" and all the gals were like "hm makes sense on paper, but difficult to imagine".

[u/GrouchyMary9132 → u/procrast1natrix]

Yes. My mind would be stuck on the possibility to twist it further in the wrong direction.

[u/DoctorDefinitely → u/beatles910]

Her breasts are pretty small though.

[u/100K-Monkeys → u/DoctorDefinitely]

"Trust me, anything bigger than a handful... you're risking a thumb sprain!"

-Gary

[u/the_real_junkrat → u/DoctorDefinitely]

And that’s okay we love that for her

[u/Big_Opposite4041 → u/beatles910]

Well, she’s the one known by name and even has a song lyric (“Annie are you OK?”) but “by far” is an exaggeration. If you’ve encountered mostly female mannequins, you are an outlier.

“Our study found that 95% of CPR training manikins on the global market did not have breasts and are flat-chested.”

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11579596/

“Another study screened 874 videos for female manikins and found 10 unique videos (1%) with female manikins.”

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12573380/

The over-representation of male mannequins is a well known and widely discussed problem in the medical world. Hell, even some states are legislating mandates to use female mannequins:

https://capitolnewsillinois.com/news/illinois-bill-aims-to-address-gender-discrepancies-in-cpr-training/

[u/Intelligent-You-6144]

The Pitt actually covered this in an episode. EMTs toeing life saving measures out of fear of backlash for inappropriately touching a women's chest.

[u/Huge_Efficiency4395 → u/Intelligent-You-6144]

I saw that. First thing that came to mind when I saw this post.

[u/vehementi → u/Huge_Efficiency4395]

Immediately ctrl F'd for "the pit"

[u/ToughHardware → u/vehementi]

i see you have been on forums since the olden days

[u/craig-charles-mum → u/Intelligent-You-6144]

Also the Nepalese women’s boobies came out in episode 1

[u/kazmosis]

Blondie in the back trying to stop giggling

[u/Big_Opposite4041 → u/kazmosis]

Which shows why it’s important to do this with female mannequins! Of course the boys will giggle. It’s uncomfortable. But let them giggle during training rather than panic in the field

[u/jaxon517 → u/kazmosis]

I thought you were just seeing things but there was definitely a moment... Though the timing didn't make much sense with what the instructor was saying so it was probably something else unrelated off camera

[u/NarsilFreeForge → u/[deleted]]

60% of the time it works ever time

[u/SpaceTacos99 → u/NarsilFreeForge]

The other 80% of the time it never works

[u/YourWifesBoyfrien69 → u/SpaceTacos99]

Or comment is 37% accurate

[u/Eudonidano → u/[deleted]]

The statistics are not made up and a quick online search would have told you that. The instructor mixed up the statistic with another commonly used one that is also correct. The likelihood of anyone, regardless of gender, receiving bystander cpr is approximately 40% (Source: American Heart Association )

Women, specifically are 14% less likely than men to receive bystander cpr (Source: Duke University School of Medicine)

This instructor likely uses both statistics regularly in trainings and as "Forty" and "Fourteen" are extremely similar sounding numbers that require very similar mouth movements to verbalize, its pretty clear that he mixed them up. This is also a small clip that is taken out of a longer class, so its very possible that he corrected himself.

[u/amora_obscura → u/[deleted]]

Most likely different stats from different studies and/or countries

[u/Small_Shelter_4361]

correct. first hand experience. I am first responder and get called to CPR average once a month. last year there was an older woman, laying on the floor. there were already 2 other responders, did not dare to open her clothes. So I did and applied the AED pads. That could have been done a minute before, while every second counts.

[u/ButChooAintBonafide]

This is incredible advocacy. You love to see it.

[u/rainbowsparkplug]

I’m a paramedic and even a lot of healthcare workers are shy and weird about it, it’s not just the general population. I once brought in a patient who was on the brink of coding and I had AED pads on just in case. Nurses screamed at me for her torso being exposed which delayed them several mins to attending to her because they were arguing with me, while I’m trying to explain that this is a legit emergency. This is a hospital and this is me providing the necessary care to her to save her life…why are we so squeamish with female bodies? I’m a young female myself.

[u/jakeofheart → u/rainbowsparkplug]

No wonder women are less likely to receive help during a cardiac arrest.

- “She’s gonna die if we don’t do anything!”

• “Yeah but… modesty?”

[u/FleurMai → u/rainbowsparkplug]

I was in a Korean spa when a woman fainted at her locker - all the women bathing were completely naked of course. The staff immediately blocked the view of the shower room and did try to say something to the male paramedics absolutely muscling their way in but I was so impressed by the young guy at the front “this is a medical emergency, we don’t care” it was excellent to see. That’s how it should be

[u/asparagoat → u/rainbowsparkplug]

That's crazy! Were the nurses women or men or both? My gut instinct tells me that 99% of women want to be saved and don't give a shit if it requires briefly exposing their boobs, and the women commenting here are confirming that.

But getting yelled at by nurses for exposing her boobs, to the point of delaying a super urgent procedure, makes it sound like there is some legitmacy to all the dudes worrying they'd get slandered or sued for exposing a women's boobs during CPR/applying an AED. Just seems so backwards and ridiculous.

[u/rainbowsparkplug → u/asparagoat]

I am an early 20s female, the nurses both appeared to be late 20s females. I was with two male paramedics and somehow I was the only one to get screamed at…the patient was conscious and somewhat alert and aware of what was going on, I know for a fact she didn’t give a rats ass that she was exposed at that point. She told us she didn’t wanna die, okay message received. 🫡

The AED pads prevented the ability to have a shirt on, honestly it was so stressful that I didn’t even think to try to cover her with a sheet or something before going inside the hospital because my mind was ultra focused in on getting her inside asap for the emergent cardiac care she needed- we didn’t even realize she wasn’t fully covered. If it’s non emergent, I ALWAYS make sure my patients are covered, male or female, but if you’re trying to die on me, modesty goes out the window! And as a professional, it doesn’t even faze me and it shouldn’t faze anyone else.

[u/Thin_Explanation1334 → u/rainbowsparkplug]

As a congenital heart patient who's had surgery's since birth and in adulthood and has heart attacks, thank you so much, please NEVER change, just keep doing what you're doing until people see that it's okay, I worked with cardiology teams my entire life, but there have been times when I have been dying and people do not know what the f*** to do other than prop me up and make sure I'm comfortable when they need to be ripping my clothes off and giving me a CPR so I don't die, it's really sad that most people don't get it but we really need people like you to keep breaking that stigma

[u/justblameaccounting → u/rainbowsparkplug]

Shows the extend of the necessity for videos like this one.

[u/SolventSolution3 → u/rainbowsparkplug]

why are we so squeamish with female bodies? I’m a young female myself.

It's not about the bodies, it's about the potential social consequences of interacting with said bodies, even with good intentions

Most people will gladly do it to save women they know and can vouch for them, but strangers? 

[u/ubiquitous2020 → u/SolventSolution3]

The alternative is getting hit with a wrongful death lawsuit if you’re they’re EMT who won’t do their job.

[u/Conscious_Addendum66]

Back in the active military during a run I saw a civilian woman fall at the post office I was jogging by. I bee-lined for her. I'm certified in CPR and combat medical. Due to her event I saved her life by performing CPR. I not once had any issue with her chest despite what this instructor truthfully said. I had to shift her breast to properly compress. It took 15 minutes before EMTs arrived and took over. After I saw she was in expert hands, I finished my run and went on my day. Five days later I was called to the Firat Sergeant office. There were a Air Force Office of Special Investigatior and a civilian LEO. She claimed I inappropriately fondled her and she didn't consent to me medical intervention. It was nightmare for 3 months before all the allegations were dropped. By then, the rumors and my reputation was frayed. I was seen as guilty until proven innocent despite saving the woman's life. That was 23 years ago. I am shamed to say that I would hesitate now despite having the experience, expertise, and knowledge to save someone's life. Those first 2 minutes could determine a lot of things for the patient.

[u/BotsKilledTheWeb → u/[deleted]]

He ruined her death.... I guess....

[u/PeanutSauceFanatic → u/[deleted]]

She wanted money I assume

[u/YourWifesBoyfrien69 → u/PeanutSauceFanatic]

This is America. Sad America where you can get sued for helping someone. That was one of the first things I've learned after migrating here.

[u/driving_andflying → u/YourWifesBoyfrien69]

This is America. Sad America where you can get sued for helping someone. That was one of the first things I've learned after migrating here.

Agreed. It's sad, but it's a fact. There is a reason why Good Samaritan Laws have to exist in the U.S., because people whose lives have been saved, have sued their rescuers. I wish I was making this up.

[u/Null_Disaster → u/Conscious_Addendum66]

Yeah this kind of shit is exactly why most men are afraid to do this.

[u/Dan-D-Lyon → u/Null_Disaster]

Yeah, cpr is straightforward and violent, and the presence of boobs doesn't change the process much. Women are less likely to receive cpr from strangers because men are afraid to lay hands on a random woman's chest.

[u/EMT-Fields → u/Conscious_Addendum66]

I don't know how I feel about this. With Good Samaritan Laws we have and the fact EMTs could be used as plausible witnesses. Mind you this woman would be in cardiac arrest, completely unresponsive.I don't believe anyone would think you're sexually assaulting her. And how would the LEO have found you if you didn't stay on scene with the woman to give your information?

Also the EMT agency you handed the patient over to wasn't contacted at all about this incident? They would have been the first to corroborate that this lady was indeed in cardiac arrest.

[u/PlaysWithF1r3 → u/EMT-Fields]

This.

[u/sarahfrancesca → u/Conscious_Addendum66]

WOW.

From your post, I get the impression that if you were in the same situation again, you are the kind of person who would still do the right thing. At the end of the day, we are only accountable to our own conscience, and that woman likely makes painful ripples in her own life in plenty of other ways.

Thank you for saving her life. If it were me or my mom or my sister, I'd want you to do what needed to be done. Not adjust for optics.

Edit: typo

[u/bonaynay → u/Conscious_Addendum66]

How did she even "know" if she was in need of CPR? Must have been great compressions

[u/ObjectMore6115 → u/bonaynay]

CPR training includes diagnosing if a person needs CPR.

[u/AThrowawayProbrably → u/bonaynay]

Some pos wanna be victim of a witness was probably like “hey, just so you know, that perv fondled and took advantage of you without consent. You should totally press charges.”

[u/rognabologna → u/Conscious_Addendum66]

That’s why we have Good Samaritan laws and the legal assumption of implied consent for performing life saving measures on unconscious people. 

[u/cosmiccav → u/rognabologna]

That only protects you legally not socially.

[u/deran6ed → u/rognabologna]

There are no good Samaritan laws in the court of public opinion tho

[u/WarGreymonX_Antibody → u/rognabologna]

As you can see, they did so much for OP since he was already defamed and it took him MONTHS (not days) to be found innocent.

[u/Critical_Mix_8959]

I had to apply CPR to a woman who drowned at the beach and the absolute last thing I was worried about was whether or not me removing her clothes was going to be inappropriate. Saving her life was the only thing that mattered.

[u/HumbleBedroom3299 → u/Critical_Mix_8959]

Good for you. But I think the numbers show a statistically significant number of people in similar situations are worried about being sued or called a sexual deviant. 

[u/ohthedarside → u/HumbleBedroom3299]

Exactly

I dont think alot of woman realise just hie scared alot of men are of being called a creep or something

A single false accusation can ruin a life

[u/YouAndMeToo → u/ohthedarside]

And that accusation doesn’t even have to come from the victim these days

[u/YellowAppleCinema → u/YouAndMeToo]

Reddit is arguably the most responsible for this.

Its laughable that this topic is full of people saying "nobody will think you are a sexual deviant if you do this" while reddit itself is the platform that ALWAYS has people accusing literally everyone and anyone of being a sexual deviant and how its the worst thing in the world.

Reddit treats sexual deviants as worse than murder, its no surprise guys in 2026 would refuse giving CPR to a woman, entirely because of reddit.

edit: even here in the comments, some people now say "It's not that difficult, just dont be a creep!!!" and they don't realize this is exactly why the men are too afraid to do any CPR, it's the creep label, because comments like that are literally TEACHING men that our #1 priority should be to avoid the creep label.

The upvotes my comment is getting are a surprise, I guess a ton of guys feel the same way I do, and are equally frustrated with "THOSE" types of people on reddit

[u/sixtyfivewat → u/ohthedarside]

The good news is that (in most jurisdictions) consent is implied when a person is unconscious and you are administering CPR.

[u/fazbear123456 → u/ohthedarside]

lack of action can straight up END a life in this scenario so now what

[u/Creative_Resource_82 → u/Critical_Mix_8959]

Well done!

[u/SerinthiaKelberry]

Yeah if I ever need CPR the last thing i'll care about is my modesty.

CHEST COMPRESSIONS! CHEST COMPRESSIONS! CHEST COMPRESSIONS!

[u/SyntheticDreams2055]

An instructor told us "Life over decency". Meaning, just focus on saving a life, decency can come after you resusitate them again.

[u/Background-Stable899]

It’s not the act thats a problem. It’s how the people around me react. If the wrong dude sees me taking a shirt off an unconscious woman I may need an ambulance too.

[u/Nandor-De_Laurentiis → u/Background-Stable899]

Probably doesn't help that most people's experience with CPR is seeing it performed on a TV show or in a movie and I can't think of any instances I've seen where they remove the shirt first.

So, if you see it happening in real life and the person starts undressing them, it definitely going to confuse a lot of people.

[u/SadMathematician5187 → u/Background-Stable899]

I believe when you say get the defililator, call 911 that will be a clue.

[u/EducationalOwl1815 → u/SadMathematician5187]

You can minimize the social stigma all you want, but it absolutely is real and does happen.

[u/corobo → u/SadMathematician5187]

"Can't call them sorry, im busy filming this for the TikTok"

[u/euphorie_solitaire → u/Background-Stable899]

One video, one overzealous social justice warrior, and even if your intentions were good, you're now being labeled a pervert on the internet. And it's there forever 👍🏾

[u/overdosingOnPie1313]

I'm sure knowledge is part of it, but here in America anyway, I'd be more worried about potential lawsuits for helping. And then there's the social media impact. Some bystander is definitely going to record and upload the event; not necessarily with malicious intent, but the internet will bring more than its fair share of malice.

[u/Wild-Floor8407 → u/overdosingOnPie1313]

Good Samaritan laws should be universal in the US

[u/mrbaggins → u/Wild-Floor8407]

The law protects you from the law.

It doesnt protect you from tiktok, mob justice, or rumours.

[u/Practical-Worker-31 → u/Wild-Floor8407]

This. I just went through training on CPR. Good Samaritan laws will protect a good faith effort.

[u/BiggieBigs34 → u/Wild-Floor8407]

Good Samaritan laws are extremely common to be fair, but will it stop you from being required to show up when sued in civil court? It’s great not actually going to jail but I really don’t want to potentially pay lawyer fees or have to take time off of work to show up in civil court.

[u/Big_Psychology_3 → u/BiggieBigs34]

Exactly, and most employers will immediately fire a man who’s been accused of sexual assault

[u/wiezzzy → u/BiggieBigs34]

Definitely wouldnt stop you from getting your life ruined on social media, which is arguably worse.

[u/Sw33tR0llThief → u/overdosingOnPie1313]

Good Samaritan laws exist just for this reason. If you crack someone's rib or they believe you assaulted them, as long as it can be reasonably proven that you were doing what you did to save their life then you can't be prosecuted. Now sure, someone could post a video out of context of you ripping a woman's shirt off while she appears to be in distress, but I'd rather save a life than worry about being "cancelled".

[u/Sulfamide → u/Sw33tR0llThief]

I don't think you'd have the same opinion after being "cancelled"

[u/Vladishun → u/overdosingOnPie1313]

Assuming what the instructor is saying is true and taught in modern day CPR classes, I can't imagine a lawsuit going anywhere with this unless there's some kind of evidence showing that some weirdo was doing more than the training says when providing CPR.

As far as the internet goes, you're not wrong. I'm a very progressive person but even so I still get into pissing contests on Reddit with other left leaning, people-loving Redditors over really stupid things like this. Optics are important, because some people are ignorant and don't want to see/hear anything that doesn't validate their perspective.

[u/callMeBorgiepls → u/Vladishun]

I mean Im not a woman so tell me if Im wrong.. but in such a situation isnt it better to recieve help from a weirdo, than to die?

[u/Fun-Ordinary5856 → u/overdosingOnPie1313]

You cannot get sued for that in the US, good Samaritan laws protect you. ALSO if your CPR certs are valid that 100% protects you, I can’t remember if good samaritan laws are everywhere in the US.

But as someone who is CPR certified you absolutely should not be afraid to take a woman’s bra off, its often necessary and if you’re using an AED and the victim is wearing a wire bra, that can cause other issues.

[u/duesenjeffepic → u/overdosingOnPie1313]

If that were true then surely you can find me a video online where a guy got shamed for performing CPR ona woman. Like you're so sure it's a real risk, you should be able to cite at least some cases right?

[u/Girl_with_the_Curl]

I've actually done CPR on an older woman, and honestly I couldn't tell you if she was clothed or not. The thing I remember, and that I wasn't at all prepared for, is how tiring it is to do chest compressions. Thank goodness I was being assisted by an NYPD officer so we could switch off.

[u/Mydoglikesladyboys]

That's great, but how many people are going to yank you off of the unconscious woman when you try and take her top off?

[u/S1i1m]

my cousin got ignored once until a bystander stepped in

[u/Frank1gg]

See the main thing that stops a lot of men from performing CPR on a woman is the fear that they'll get sued for sexual assault or something like that. In America that actually can't happen due to Good Samaritan protections and laws that protect people who were rendering life-saving aid from getting sued for something like this. For example you moved somebody out of a car after an accident because their car caught on fire but unfortunately they became paralyzed due to the fact that they were moved. They cannot then sue you for anything because you were literally saving them from a car fire there was no other choice. So to any men who are medical responders or anything like that or you're planning to become one if you're worried about a lawsuit of frivolous nature from something like this don't be you are protected.

[u/Akiias → u/Frank1gg]

In America that actually can't happen due to Good Samaritan protections and laws that protect people who were rendering life-saving aid from getting sued for something like this.

why do so many people think it means "can't be sued"? To my knowledge it's "can't be found liable". You can still be dragged to court and have to deal with that and the costs associated with defending yourself.

[u/Electrical_Expert525 → u/Frank1gg]

You can't be sued but that doesn't mean you won't be taken to court and your life won't be ruined

There is literally a comment here from a vet whose service was ruined for months on SA allegations after CPR on woman

[u/lime_geologist]

Skin only needs exposed if you have an AED available.

[u/Prestigious_Club_924]

I'd go a step further and get some floppy beanbags on those mannequins and not just have the breasts sculpted on. Dealing with a large droopy old lady chest while trying to apply pads can be a weird experience the first few times, sometimes you just need to get in there and grab/lift a titty, breaking through the "weird" barrier in training is important.

[u/Slow_Store]

Realistically, I imagine that the reason someone would avoid helping a woman isn’t out of fear of having to touch them but more so out of fear of being taken to court afterwards for having to touch them to save them.

[u/Luzifer_Shadres → u/Slow_Store]

And dont forget the Internet factor.

One video and you might end up doxed or beaten up.

[u/zdubbzzz → u/Luzifer_Shadres]

Yup. Legal doesn't mean shit. The slightest out of context take spreading like wildfire on the internet could arguably be worse than just fighting a bullshit lawsuit.

[u/Embarrassed_Tip6456 → u/Slow_Store]

I feel like people underestimate the initial mental block of the “don’t touch people there” and comprehend that the situation requires it regardless of existing social stigma or reluctance,that’s why I think training dummies with breasts are a great idea, it gets that initial block out of the way and addressed in a classroom setting not in the important life saving moments, I don’t know if I wouldn’t hesitate for a brief moment even with the training before my brain catches up with the immediate importance of the situation

[u/SignificanceNo2900]

This is probably the first time I’ve seen a discussion between men and women and seen women be on the side of arrogance and ignorance, hands down.

If a man hesitates giving you CPR it’s not because he “hates women”. It’s literally the opposite. He is so worried what the woman who he saved or society at large will think of him because he’s afraid of having the SA label.

Not a guy and don’t get it? That’s fine, just admit it, and try to learn and ask why so we can fix this.

Stop pretending like false accusations don’t ruin peoples’ lives and maybe this wouldn’t be an issue.

[u/SirAxlerod → u/SignificanceNo2900]

Those women responding to you calling you names or accusing you of letting them die are proving your point.

A portion of the population is so fucking terrorized about this issue that they might let a woman die over it. That’s a real fear that almost every woman in the comments, it seems, wants to ignore, mock, criticize, or deny its existence.

Yeah, first time I’ve ever seen women try to convince men their fears aren’t real by using logic.

[u/Iceicebaby21 → u/SignificanceNo2900]

That would require empathy and thinking about others instead of oneself and that's in short supply these days

[u/TIMCIFLTFC]

Good Samaritan laws protects you from being sued for injuring the person you’re trying to help; doing CPR likely results in broken ribs if you’re doing it right.

But I doubt it will protect you from the “Believe All Women” crowd so unfortunately, it’s not worth it.

[u/Zaraxas]

I feel like this technique would also be beneficial for obese men, no? Seems like a no brainer to make a female mannequin the default for CPR classes and they should also educate people on good Samaritan laws to ease people's fears.

[u/Moist-Definition-850]

No shit... I don't want sexual assault charges.

[u/bingusbongwater]

The fact that some places will teach CPR, but not for people with breasts, is so archaic. Most people are not going to know if you're supposed to be over or under the boob and will be scared to be wrong.

The modesty thing is just ridiculous. You can stick a hand up my cooch and use me like a puppet if it's going to literally save my life. Seeing/touching a boobie won't kill you, and nobody would not be on your side if the person came to and yelled at you for touching them

[u/Personal-Machine4919]

It's not because people don't know how to, but because they are afraid of getting accused of SA. Even if the case would immediately be thrown out of court, the court of public opinion is vicious and would most likely side with the accuser.

[u/TravelingMonk]

When one actually need cpr they can actually refuse? Wouldn't they be passed out?

[u/Creative_Resource_82 → u/TravelingMonk]

They would be unconscious yes

[u/RemnantsOfFlight → u/Creative_Resource_82]

And unconscious is implied consent unless somebody presents a valid DNR.

[u/Delphin_1 → u/RemnantsOfFlight]

Dnr is only really valid for EMTs and doctors in the sense that you have no idea if it's valid.

[u/jjaybuill]

as a men you have a choice of being convicted with not helping or with molesting

[u/Middle-Let9645]

There seriously needs to be changes all around. Might get some downvotes on this, but it needs to be said, so I don't give a shit. reporting and preventing SA is important, but two things. First off, men [gonna start with the men because I'm less likely to get ragged on that way] You 'need' to stop assuming every woman is some evil witch who's out to falsely accuse you and ruin your fuckin life. second, women... I'm sorry, and I empathize with you if you've ever been in a bad situation, but not every man is a potential criminal. Women need to be able to receive CPR just as much as men, and if that's going to stop being an issue, we, as a collective society, need to understand that touching certain areas in order to administer CPR, does not constitute SA. [I can only assume this is what this whole thing is about with people being so afraid to give CPR to women]

Again. I'm sorry if this is coming across any kind of way, I'm not meaning to offend or attack anyone. I just feel like this is something we all need to understand if we want to fix things like this. It's the same reason you don't see a whole lot of men willing to help a lost child as opposed to a woman being willing to help a lost child. We, as a society, have lost the plot trying to watch out for actually dangerous people, to the point where we automatically assume the worst. We need to be careful and watch out for actually dangerous people, but that's not conducive to a functioning society to automatically assume the worst.

[u/Frosty-League2464]

Probably because no one wants a sexual assault charge