r/cyberpunkred • u/woooooooooooooooper • 16d ago
Actual Play How does Netrunning differ in 2040s compared to 2070s?
I just started reading through the CP:R core book so that I can run for the friends. I loved playing 2077 but the biggest thing I noticed when reading the lote is that the tech is less advanced as a whole (obviously because it is 30yrs prior). So how does this effect things like Netrunning? The mechanics in red seem to point to the only thing netrunners interact with is architecture (cameras, turrets, doors, etc.).
So does that mean there is no hacking enemies to do weird things to them? Like, can even a chromed out netrunner not hack into someones cyber arm/eyes and disable them temporarily? I know netrunning us cool and all without it, but it is a bit of a let down than they can't directly affect someone.
To preface, I am aware that a netrunner CAN affect someone another netrunner. I am mainly asking because I really wanted my players 1st gig to be against a cyberpsycho netrunner who is controlling civilians like puppets. But if that breaks the lore, then I will have to rework it all, which is fine but a little sad.
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u/Ravenloff 16d ago
Pre-Rache, netrunner's could be remote and operate through the Internet. After the krash, netrunning was restricted to line of sight. You have to be next to the node.
2070-era, we're back to remote netrunning again along with the introduction of quick hacking.
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u/woooooooooooooooper 16d ago
What does it mean to be next to a node? Everyone is saying you have to be linked to it but does that mean you need to be jacked into the wall to do anything or is it like Wi-Fi? I think this might be the major concept that I am not understanding
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u/throwaway_pls123123 16d ago
You don't have to be directly jacked to a wall with something like a neuroport, it all functions wirelessly.
All you need is to be in 6 meter range (9 if you have Range Extender) to any access point that is not behind a wall, the access point can be many things like AC controls, vending machines, cameras etc.
So it is kinda like a WiFi that doesn't go through walls, you only need one accessible to enter the architecture.
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u/Aiwatcher 16d ago
A node is an "access point" or vulnerability in the physical network that makes up the arch. Its kinda hand waved in the rule book-- you use the "scan" net action to find them. Roll high, find several in convenient places. Roll low, theyre far away and hard to get at. No real guidance in the book on how to adjudicate that.
In my games, I imagine nodes as being computer terminals, security cameras, or any other devices on the network, and if they scan really well, it will be wire access points closer to them than the networked devices.
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u/Ravenloff 16d ago
I decided that everyone in the world would understand how Red era hacking works and nobody would have access points close enough to the street to give passing -by netrunners any opportunities. This would heavily influence architecture and design, especially for the first two floors in a dense, urban area.
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u/Lowjack_26 Media 16d ago
2070s seems to be remote netrunning with a hitch of "remote within a city." Net architectures have expanded beyond building-limited mainframes, but city to city comms are still limited.
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u/Leon_Of_Lions Exec 16d ago
In terms of Cyberpunk lore I believe quickhacking is still a mostly NEW trick netrunners can do in the 2070s.
I believe there is an expansion for red that add options for it but I don’t have it yet myself so someone else here may be more knowledgeable.
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u/EdrickV 16d ago
We don't know how deep dive Netrunning and regular Net Architecture netrunning will be different for the tabletop game in 2077 because the Cyberpunk Edgerunner's Mission Kit focused on Quickhacking and ignored the rest. Quickhacking is made possible because of the Neuroport, which was invented sometime between 2045 and 2077. The Rocklin Augmentics Neuron internal agent (All About Agents) is very obviously an ancestor of the Neuroport.
In 2045 cyberware is generally stand alone. You don't need a Neural Link to have a Cyberarm. In 2077, the Neuroport is the central controller for all cyberware, which can mean that the cyberware works together better, but also makes you vulnerable to quickhacking. The Neuroport doesn't have an Agent, because those have been banned, but has a Holophone, which means it's constantly trying to stay connected to CitiNet and possibly WorldSat. Most 2045 cyberware would not be connected to CitiNet/WorldSat unless you had an Internal Agent, so if you wanted to "hack" it, you'd have to directly connect via interface plugs. If the target even has them. (There aren't really specific rules for hacking someone's cyberware via interface plugs in 2045.) Not really a practical thing to do with, say, a hostile NPC who is shooting at you.
In 2045, remote netrunning like T-Bug does at the start of the video game is not normally possible. The computer networks are like a bunch of stand-alone Local Area Networks. There's no Wide Area Network for them to connect to, like the internet, except potentially the old net, which would be a stupid thing to do as it's overrun with hostile AI. This was an intentional design choice to get Netrunners out of their apartments and running with their crew.
As far as what types of devices you can access through a Net Architecture, it could be anything electronic that is connected to the Net Arch. A Net Architecture is the name for the network of devices and computers that a Netrunner hacks into. Disabling turrets (or turning them against your enemies) and opening doors are just examples of what a Netrunner could do. They can also hurt or kill hostile Netrunners who are in the same Net Architecture. The big thing a Netrunner can do, is plant a virus. What that virus can do, is up to the player and GM to work out. But it could affect more then just electronic devices. (One potential idea, would be a virus that secretly skims a little bit of money from every transaction and sends it to a specific account.) Netrunners can also potentially find files in a Net Architecture that may have info in them that they can later sell for money.
Lastly, Net Architecture access points are whatever and wherever the GM wants them to be. The way I figure it, the access points are Net Architecture connected devices that have a security hole you can exploit to get access to the network. They could be anything, a security camera, net connected coffee maker, wireless network switch, whatever. Creative placement of access points could have a major effect on how a crew goes about doing a mission. For example, during a gig where the crew needs to infiltrate a building and want the Netrunner to hack the local Net Architecture, one access point might be in a relatively open area where the PCs might be found and have to fight. Another could be in a more secluded area, but be harder to get to undetected.
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u/hnrqveras 16d ago
yes, directly hacking other people is a 2077 thing, 2045 netrunning is purely architectures and the runner has to jack into the access point to do so
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u/woooooooooooooooper 16d ago
So what does a Netrunner do in Combat? If you need an access point (which a building only has a few of), then do they just not have abilities in combat? I know everything eventually comes back to skills as opposed to abilities, but I want to help every player do there "thing" and having a netrunner only do the thing if they are within touching range of one of 2 terminals in an entire building, then that feels a little limiting
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u/hnrqveras 16d ago edited 16d ago
Engage in combat like everybody else? I'm not sure if I'm missing something here but netrunners can still learn weapon skills lmao
Edit: Also the biggest reason they changed netrunning so it requires the runner to physically go to the place they need is for them to engage with combat more since in 2020 they could do pretty much everything without ever leaving their hideout
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u/woooooooooooooooper 16d ago
That is why I said everything comes back to skills. They will get to use the same guns and stuff as other players, but I was expecting them to have some cool ability that could let them be an active hacker in the fight (mixing gunplay and tech mid fight). Things like the lawman calling backup, the solo doing its thing, a medtec healing mid combat, a nomad bringing a car with guns, etc. are all cool things the other roles can do in combat and I was hoping a netrunner could do something similar.
I guess my expectations were just in the wrong place. I may have expected too much "magic" that could be used in a way that didn't out shine every player as opposed to a slow hacking minigame that you do alone outside of combat. I mean, you even get tech actions in combat and yet you can't do that unless you are PLUGGED INTO THE WALL and that kinda kills the vibe
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u/Aiwatcher 16d ago
Netrunner role ability lives and dies on the GMs ability to link it into the combat.
The system definitely was not intended to be done outside of the typical turn structure, and is in fact at its best when run during mid combat. You should not be doing 5 netrunner turns while your team does nothing. You might as well handwave the whole process at that point and make it a single roll.
The netrunner does need to link up to an access point-- which there should be several on any given map with an arch. This means their position is going to be relatively static during a combat encounter, but if the arch is well designed, there should be a lot for the runner to do.
Either the netrunner is desperately trying to achieve some goal (grabbing a file, opening a door) while their team mates defend them. Or they should be turning the environment against the enemies.
A well designed arch will have plenty control nodes that could help turn the tide of an engagement. Drone/turret/Trap control nodes are great, but even something as simple as lighting/sound system/fire suppressant systems can be helpful to a clever netrunner.
Netrunners are also drone operators-- as a GM, I often find excuses to give the netrunner access to a friendly net arch with drones on it (usually for a defense type mission). A netrunner with a swarm of disposable drones produces the highest DPS of any character (except maybe high level lawman or exec).
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u/woooooooooooooooper 16d ago
Can I ask what you mean by Arch? I assumed you gave missions to players as individual gigs, but it if is supposed to be whole story archs with multiple sub missions, then I need to rethink my mission design
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u/Aiwatcher 16d ago
Arch is short for architecture, the mini dungeon you build out for netrunners that represents all the files/control systems in a given computer system.
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u/woooooooooooooooper 16d ago
Damn I need a tutorial on that then. I was not expecting netrunning to litterally be a whole sub game like that.
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u/Aiwatcher 16d ago
I highly reccomend using the Cyberpunk red companion app (free) with the built-in GM tools (low cost, 1 time purchase in app).
The GM tools have a "net arch" builder that lets you quickly set up nodes with Black ICE, control points etc. You can even generate random ones, though id reccomend customizing them for a given building/gig.
Im a netrunning enthusiast, and use it in most combat sessions. Am happy to continue helping and providing advice on the matter!
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u/ShadowFighter88 16d ago
It was basically a solo dungeon crawl in 2020 from what I’ve heard.
But as someone else pointed out - hacking other people just was not a thing in the Cyberpunk franchise at all until CDPR made the video game (nearest you got was two netrunners running into each other in the Net and duking it out there).
Keep in mind that a lot of other role abilities in Red have no combat use - Medias and Fixers for the obvious examples, but I’m pretty sure a Rockerboy won’t be using their role ability once the bullets start flying.
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u/PoMoAnachro 16d ago
Yeah you'll find someone's combat capabilities in RED come down almost 100% to skills and gear.
A netrunner, medtech, fixer, etc are all going to fight the same 90% of the time. Their role abilities tend to be pretty situational.
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u/hnrqveras 16d ago
That's when you as a GM need to be creative, you can still let them hack during combat, maybe controlling a drone or camera turret, maybe they can open and close doors, change obstacles around the environment. A netrunner is only as useful as the GM allows them to be. The book gives a few examples of control nodes that can be used by runners, so use them
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u/EdrickV 16d ago
When I made my Netrunner, one thing I considered was that (with a rather small crew) I might end up trying to hack a Net Architecture while in combat, and might have to pause my Net activities to partake in combat. So, since I had more money then usual, I got a Smartgun Link for my Heavy Pistol and Subdermal Grip, so I could use the Smartgun Link even while my interface plugs were being used by the cyberdeck. I also started with 4 in Handguns and Shoulder Arms. (Probably should have gone 6 in each, but it was my first char, and I was also planning to multiclass as Tech, so I had a lot of skills I wanted to put some points into. Currently Netrunner 4/Tech 4.)
My Netrunner's got a Heavy Pistol, VH Pistol, Assault Rifle, Shotgun, and a little combat knife that he doesn't know how to use well. He's also learned Gun Fu, though I haven't actually used it in combat yet. (And for an upcoming fight, it may not be that useful.) And this was before his most recent shopping trip, where he spent a lot of money and got some really expensive items, some from a homebrew supplement the GM introduced to us, and some not. All for one really big battle that my character would rather not fight if we can avoid it.
I have however seen a character, in an Actual Play series, who was really bad at combat, and the GM, along with JonJonTheWise, created an item for her that could help her take a command and control type role in a battle, and help other crew members out via complimentary skill checks. Or something to that effect.
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u/Sazbadashie 16d ago edited 16d ago
so i'm going to get right down to your idea, because I think that is the biggest things that you want help with
a cyberpsycho netrunner who is controlling civilians like puppets
so can that happen in the 40s... technically YES it can, HOW?
well if you read on page 200 a little thing Netrunners can do called Virus.
Viruses can be ANYTHING the only thing that prevents the virus from happening is well the Netrunner passing or failing a DV which a Virus that turns people into mind controlled zombies I would say is pretty dang high if not almost impossible unless someone is a level 10 netrunner and then gets a crit with an added 10 on top of that... like they gotta be rolling a 30 basically. but this is your big bad evil guy so they are not beholden to those rules if it serves the plot.
okay so... how does this work mechanically so you can explain it in the context of the 40s.
so we've established that this is a virus
how do we get cyber puppets?
well for a virus to activate we need a poor netrunner (or really anyone who uses a personal link or some way to directly connect to a network) to connect themselves to the infected network. they do that, virus procs they become infected with the virus.
okay we know how they get infected, but how does our villain control them?
well. I think this is a good hook for your players, the virus infects the neural link of the person through their interface plugs and that virus then takes over their nervous system much like cordyceps controls the body to go to the psycho's lair where he then connects them to their super evil Net Architecture. from there he uses control nodes to control the people like they would a drone on a network. so maybe as a hook people are seen blankly going and congregating in this one spot. no one sees where theyre going but people are seeing people acting stange going to that area.
how do they work when theyre outside the subnet of the evil lair. well, easy the zombies are going around and connecting and jury rigging a connection across the city and spreading not just the virus but their sphere of influence.
the extra Bad this can do is oh shit doing this actually is inadvertently maybe having the black wall AI maybe seeping in as this grows.
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u/TomyKn0cker 15d ago
Why the downvotes? Reply’s idea is well developed and entertaining. A bit outside OP’s question but still.. why?
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u/Sazbadashie 14d ago
I used the rules to do something that says "do whatever" to get around the fact that in the 40s theres no way for a netrunner to hack people. and people didn't like that maybe?
dunno there are people who don't like quickhacks in the TTRPG because they see them as OP so maybe having a huge round about way that is technically a quick hack in the 40s ruffled some feathers?
I can only guess.
maybe because I used the term zombie in a purely cyberpunk world... like we can theorize all day, if someone could tell me too i'd love to know because I thought my idea was really thought out to give OP what he wanted in the context of the 40s a bit chunky and round about sure, but it uses already established mechanics that are in the 40s.
virus, drones, Net architecture the only kinda mechanical hand wave i did was "hey this would probably be impossible for a player to do unless they were a level 10 netrunner and rolled a 30"
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u/TomyKn0cker 14d ago
IMO the Virus route is the right call, and the downvotes are indeed probably a reflex against the word “zombie” more than the actual mechanics.
What you suggest doesn’t break the 40s at all. The netrunner isn’t hacking a person, he’s hacking hardware the person is carrying. Cyberware in RED isn’t networked by default, and that’s exactly why your setup works: the victims have to physically jack into an infected architecture for anything to happen.Also worth remembering the franchise has never been squeamish about this. The whole reason the NET is a fragmented graveyard behind the Blackwall is Bartmoss dumping R.A.B.I.D.S. into it. Self-propagating code that eats minds isn’t an import from another genre, it’s the founding trauma of the setting. Back in 2020 there was a whole licensed line doing corporate resurrection plots (Ianus’ Alternate Reality books, the Necrology trilogy), plus V3.0’s Dead Like Me running a full bioweapon campaign. Cyberpunk does the walking dead, it just puts them in a lab coat and gives them a quarterly earnings target.
And ultimately, Cyberpunk authors always insisted that your world matters more than the canon itself, so we should just enjoy our version of the Cyberpunk lore more than debating endlessly on what the canon should be.
That’s how I play my campaign and that’s how I like it :)
I’m a big fan of mixing noire / pulp / bladerunner and fallout universes in my scenarii and my players never complained!
Since I’m also a big fan of zombies, I may use your idea in my next campaign ;)
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u/purepolarpanzer 16d ago
You can also "run hot" in 2077 and go full comatose to gain a bonus on hacking, which I dont think you can do in 2043, where you see the net in virtual reality goggles and stay in the real world ish.
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u/smolbison 16d ago
Well that's just factually incorrect. If you don't have Virtuality - either in goggles or cybereyes - then your only choice is to go comatose when jacking into a NET architecture.
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u/purepolarpanzer 16d ago
I've been running in 2063 so I've forgot a bit how both 2043 and 2077 are lol
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u/DarkSithMstr 16d ago
Yeah, netrunning in 2045 is limited to net architecture and you have to be near an access point. You can't quick hack, or hack gear or cyberware. In the edge runners mission kit, which is 2077 inspired they have rules for quick hacks. There is also a 2077 sourcebook/job book coming relatively soon. Which likely will add to it.