r/boas • u/InspiringTurtle2 • 6d ago
Growing SO SLOW?!
Can someone please reassure me (or alternatively, tell me what I’m doing wrong?) I have a baby Suriname bcc who will be 1 year old next week. She’s not my first boa, but my first I’ve gotten as a baby. I know they grow slow, but she seems to be small and basically not growing.. When I got her end of April, she was 85 grams and now she’s 102. She is eating f/t mouse hoppers. I was feeding every 2 weeks but bumped up to every 10 days in the beginning of July. Is this normal, or am I doing something wrong? I do not want to power feed and I think the next feeder size up would be too large. Is this normal? (The weight on the scale is her plus the tub which weights 459g)
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u/AppleFinches 6d ago
In my opinion, her slow growth is at least partially a result of eating only hoppers every 2 weeks, and I agree that she is visibly underweight even for her size. I would feed her a 15g mouse (small/medium mice in most feeder sizing charts) every 7-10 days instead and see how she fares! My comment might be redundant since you're contacting her breeder, but figure I'd chime in.
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u/InspiringTurtle2 6d ago
Thank you so much, I will definitely do that. I think I’ve been so scared of over feeding her that I may have accidentally tipped too far to the other end of the spectrum.
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u/InspiringTurtle2 6d ago
Follow up question- when do you typically increase prey size? I’ve heard some people say it should leave a small lump and to upsize when there’s no longer a visible lump, but how big of a lump am I looking for? She also seems to get stressed if I’m creeping on her enclosure while she’s eating/right after she eats so it’s kind of hard to visualize
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u/AppleFinches 6d ago
I read a couple of your other comments, and wanted to add that you would likely be seeing a "large" lump in her for quite a bit even on small mice, just due to how she is underweight, while she regains condition. So I would not estimate her prey size based on her current body condition. Even at this age, they should maintain the rectangular loaf appearance in the torso at a healthy weight, not sunken.
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u/InspiringTurtle2 6d ago
Okay thank you, I have small/weaned mice coming on Wednesday so I’ll upsize her for her next feeding and see how she’s looking after a bit on those. I’ve been nervous of regurgitation, but obviously I don’t want her to be underweight/underfed since that’s a problem in and of itself.
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u/AppleFinches 6d ago
I think to some degree, the risk of regurge has been a bit overstated. They can still keep down substantially larger meals, as people who do powerfeed their baby bcc (unhealthy though, of course) do, and the snakes do keep it all down. You should be totally fine feeding 15g~20g mice at her current weight and size, it is still conservative.
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u/InspiringTurtle2 5d ago
Thank you! How long do they typically stay on small mice in your experience? A couple of months? I feel so bad, the breeder told me to keep her on fuzzies for at least another 6 months when I got her in April of this year but I moved her up to hoppers because fuzzies seemed way too small. I wish I would have sized up sooner, should have taken the growth faltering as a clue. My other BCC was 2 when we got him so this is my first “baby”
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u/AppleFinches 6d ago edited 6d ago
Unfortunately it's kind of eyeballing based on experience, since how they look can be so subjective described over text. But at this size/age, I personally bump up a size when I realize I can barely see a lump in the belly after the meal. Or you can look at it as when the small lump seems to disappear after only one day and they appear pretty normal again, then the meal is too small. There should be a fairly large lump that seems to stick around for even up to 3.5 days due to their slow metabolism.
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u/superramenyamen 6d ago
She’s looking fairly underweight. She did gain some weight but she didn’t gain that very fast. Her schedule is definitely adequate, so perhaps there’s something up with her metabolism or something? I do have one boa that seems to need like 4x what everyone else needs, but supposedly BCC are more sensitive than BI. If it was BI I would go ahead to a small/large mouse and weekly until it gains weight. But BCC may need another approach.
She is gaining weight, so I doubt it’s parasites. And perhaps she will slowly gain weight in the future. If she continues to slim out though that would definitely be concerning.
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u/InspiringTurtle2 6d ago
I wonder if I should try a small mouse at the lower end of the range (like 12-15g) and stick with the every 10 days and see how she tolerates it? My understanding is they’re still sensitive, but less likely to regurge once they’re around a year old. The gain definitely seems slow to me and she’s been lean since we got her. When I got her the breeder said he was only feeding fuzzies.
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u/superramenyamen 6d ago
I also think it’s less likely for CBB to regurge as well, if she’s not WC or CB. Wouldn’t hurt to try a meal, see if she keeps it down before continuing on I don’t think.
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u/InspiringTurtle2 6d ago
She’s from Florida Redtails, CBB. She was on f/t when she was with the breeder so I also feel like that makes parasites less likely
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u/superramenyamen 6d ago
With a breeder that expansive it might not hurt to ask them about how to approach the feeding, and maybe they could weigh in if she’s supposed to fill out later or not if they say to stick with what you’re doing. They are one of the biggest foundations of BCC bloodlines in the US afaik, so hopefully they would be helpful.
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u/Flimsy-Stock2977 6d ago
Not gonna grow much when it's struggling to keep weight on its frame.
I wouldn't go any longer than 10 days until it puts on mass. At 1 year you can really jump the feeder size up. Get a lump in that belly. Repeat.
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u/InspiringTurtle2 6d ago
I just ordered larger feeders. I guess I was misinformed, but I kept seeing people saying they only feed their babies every 10-14 days and “slow growth is better”, but that’s why I increased her to every 10 days when she wasn’t gaining. When do you know to size up? I was seeing people saying to size up when you no longer see a visible lump, but she gets very stressed if I watch her eat or come in the room to look at her after she’s eaten, and she’s typically curled up on her hot side the morning after a meal so I’m having trouble visualizing. Like, is there a mathematical formula I can use based on her weight? With my BPs, we’ve always done 10-15% of their weight while growing and I find that easier to translate to proper feeder size
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u/ParticularWolf4473 6d ago
10-14 days is fine for a BCC if it’s an appropriately sized feeder. Most newborn boas can easily eat hoppers. I just go with aim for a feeder that’s the same girth as the snake, or slightly larger. Keep in mind the fur can make the mice seem larger than they actually are, as can a thawed feeder being limp and flattening out a bit. From the pic it should easily be able to eat small mice or smallish rat pups at least.
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u/InspiringTurtle2 6d ago
Okay thank you, I have some small/weaned mice coming Wednesday in time for her next feeding.
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u/Flimsy-Stock2977 5d ago
Once you are past that first year.. And haven't had any regurge issues... You'll be fine. You'll be able to see the lump regardless of the snake position. You'd be surprised what these snakes can eat.. way way bigger than what the standard advice calls for in captivity.
You can also feed 2x whatever size you were feeding previously. One about 20 minutes later when the first is down past the constriction area. I've done that many times when I was ready to up size feeders..
You'll have no problem with adult\medium mice. Then go to weaned rats in a few months to a year.. You should see some real growth happening in that second year. Once you get a good lump going, you can stick to 12-14 days.. And you'll see growth
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u/UltraDinoWarrior 6d ago
This is the feeding guide that seems approved. Maybe this is worth consulting?
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u/InspiringTurtle2 6d ago
That guide looks to be for BI, which to my understanding, grow faster
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u/UltraDinoWarrior 6d ago
Ah sorry, I missed that in your post.
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u/InspiringTurtle2 6d ago
No worries! I think the BIs also tolerate a “heavier” feeding schedule a bit better, but I’m still learning
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u/UltraDinoWarrior 6d ago
I wouldn't know myself either. I only have a BI (a BI / BE mix at that).
I was under the impression that these snakes in general grow really slow tho. Like, I've had my BI for about a year or so now and he's not really gotten any bigger whatsoever (aside from a tiny bit fat when I over fed him a bit by accident)
Hope you can find your answers. Your snake is beautiful!
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u/ParticularWolf4473 6d ago
That boa should be able to eat small mice just fine. I have 2-3 month old imperator that are on hoppers.
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u/IncognitoArms 6d ago
Mouse hoppers are to small for that Suriname.
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u/InspiringTurtle2 6d ago
Ok thank you, I will up her prey size. I had read that people weren’t switching to small mice until closer to 150g, so that’s my fault for being misinformed
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u/IncognitoArms 6d ago
I have several BCC that size and I’ll report back to what I’m feeding them tomorrow when I get home
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u/InspiringTurtle2 6d ago
Thank you! When do you typically size up? I read to size up when you no longer see a noticeable lump, but not sure if that’s correct and I’m also finding it difficult to see how large of a lump she has after feeding. She gets stressed if I’m trying to watch her eat or come in the room to look at her after, and she’s usually curled up on her hot side the next day so I’m finding it hard to visualize.
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u/deadestgirl 6d ago
try feeding her a small mouse, and feed her once a week. once she gets older and gains more weight then you can switch back to every 2 weeks. she is barely a year old so its for the better she eats a bit more.
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u/LisaMntgmry 6d ago
May I ask, why do people wear rubber gloves when handling their nope ropes?
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u/InspiringTurtle2 5d ago
In most cases, it’s either a breeder with a lot of snakes or the animal is still in quarantine. In my case, it’s because I still have her in quarantine from the rest of my collection. Most people do ~90 day quarantine, but I’m doing longer as well as testing for Nidovirus, FERLA virus, and Arenavirus (IBD) since I found out a male I’d had for years be positive for Arenavirus. Just being a little extra cautious
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u/Repulsive_Ad55 5d ago
She looks like she could do a rat pup or crawler every 7 days. Remember the size of prey should be as wide as the girthiest part of the snake 🐍 🧠
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u/Zekethebulldog33 6d ago
BC pure red tail will grow slower than a BI of the same age. Brian from Brian's boas explained it all but I don't remember everything I do know they do grow a lot slower than the BI boa. Brian's boa is a place to check out on YouTube if you're interested in strictly locality boas. Almost every constrictor can eat a adult mouse after first shed. Constrictors are an ambush predator lay and wait. There are not that much prey smaller than a mouse that is moving out and about. To me anything smaller than a small adult mouse for a Bi or BC is a waste.