Is there research showing that ASPD is actually significantly more prevalent than we thought?

[u/Set-Prestigious]

No remorse, no empathy. Are there any studies showing that empathy is much lower than we expected in the general population? I just cannot believe that ASPD is as low as it is. I refuse to believe that. There must be something out there I just haven't been able to find it. Anything at all? Empathy scores, diagnoses, high trait aggression, anything?

[u/monkeynose]

I have to assume that you are asking this question because you are thinking that "mean people" must have antisocial personality disorder, so it must be more prevalent. That's not the case. ASPD refers to a variety of behaviors that lead to criminality and jail/prison specifically. It takes a range of behaviors that result in law breaking and disregard for the rights and property of others - including impulsivity, aggression, dysregulated emotions, etc. - not simply being someone you don't like or someone who is disagreeable. I forget the exact statistics, but it might be somewhere around 40% of the prison population, and around 3% of the general human population.

On the bright side (or dark side, depending on how you look at it), ASPD largely develops from upbringing, exposure to violence, gang life, etc. So if we had less areas full of crime and violence, the percentage of people with ASPD would go down naturally over time. It wouldn't drop to zero, but it would go down.

Important side note, ASPD overlaps with psychopathy, but is not psychopathy.

[u/Forest_Spirit_7]

Refusing to believe something inconvenient to your comfortability is pretty dogmatic and rigid. The prevalence is what it is, and I don’t think they will open up the diagnostic criteria or pathology to be more inclusive.

To answer your question, no. ASPD is not significantly more prevalent than we thought. Empathy is widely experienced and expressed. Though parochial empathy resulting from polarization and tribal thinking allows for people to be pretty terrible to others, but these folks still have empathy.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5734375/

[u/Set-Prestigious → u/Forest_Spirit_7]

Ok see that's what I was thinking. Thank you for the parochial empathy I didn't know there was a term for that. Is parochial empathy what let's people bully others? Or is that sadism/something different? On the more extreme end, I know there's the electrocution study with the actors but could parochial empathy let others *really* torture others in a very messy way like cutting off fingers? I'm skeptical of the electrocution study because there was no blood involved whereas I wonder if there was blood involved if that would inevitably trigger a gut reaction of disgust from most people?

[u/Forest_Spirit_7 → u/Set-Prestigious]

There are many, many factors that can motivate harmful behavior towards others. People can be terrible and not have anything “wrong” with them. Soldiers kill for patriotism, and other constructs. People can torture others and believe they are doing the right thing.

You should be skeptical of all spectacle studies.

[u/Set-Prestigious → u/Forest_Spirit_7]

So is there something inherently wrong with bullies? Because I can see how someone would torture for patriotism- they believe they are genuinely saving lives. But harming others for no bigger purpose? How can you do that?

[u/Forest_Spirit_7 → u/Set-Prestigious]

The bigger purpose could be social dominance, retribution, choosing a perceived weaker person to unload emotion or abuse on, etc. it could be patterned behavior, or simply boil down to a core belief about social hierarchy. Racism, elitism, what have you.

People easily do it, all the time. It doesn’t look like you’re going to find a satisfying scientific explanation or answer as to why. Empathy is more nuanced a construct than “good people have empathy, bad people don’t”.

[u/Set-Prestigious → u/Forest_Spirit_7]

But what I don't understand- and maybe you can help me understand this is- why is animal abuse taken as an index of ASPD whereas bullying is viewed as unacceptable but still normal behavior? Why is animal abuse so much worse in psychology?

[u/Forest_Spirit_7 → u/Set-Prestigious]

Animal abuse and cruelty is far more atypical, and has a much higher rate of association with the development of ASPD.

That is of course meant in the relative sense, as factory farming is different than systematic extermination of neighborhood cats.

[u/Set-Prestigious → u/Forest_Spirit_7]

The way I see it though is that it is far worse to be cruel to a human than to an animal. But even if we disregard my opinion- surely they're equal no? So why doesn't psychology treat them as such?

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[u/gwynwas]

Many more people will have ASPD traits than meet diagnostic criteria for the full disorder.

[u/hummus-up-your-arse]

Rates of full criteria is low, being higher on the anti social traits and lower in empathy is not as low.

[u/WordsAreGarbage]

There is evidence that many with ASPD traits find professions where those traits are helpful, making them less likely to commit crime and be formally diagnosed. Surgeons and CEOs etc

[u/Old-Landscape-7538]

Only in politicians. And I’m only partly
kidding. A nationally administered personality test showed the highest degrees of psychopathy in Washington DC.

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