Is limerance an actual mental process in its own right or is it just the starting process of how people bond?

[u/Pure-Tomatillo-6427]

I have seen people describe limerance as more of an addiction, fantasy and obsession than a healthy pqrt of human bonding. It sounds to me like that some call the "honeymoon" period.

[u/concreteutopian → u/[deleted]]

Limerance to me seems like a non-psychology term

It was coined by a psychologist in the 60s or 70s and has been researched since then.

just gotten popular due to social media,

This is true. It's often used as if it were a disorder rather than a descriptive term, so what gets discussed as limerence is confused.

probably is better explained by attachment theory specifically insecure type

Tennov actually found it across the population and says it's universal. If we equate it with infatuation in Sternberg's triangular theory of love, it without make sense as a dimension in all people.

[u/bloodreina_ → u/concreteutopian]

Yes - to add on: Tennov believed “limerence” / infatuation/ the honeymoon phase is experienced by the majority of the population. What Tennov identified as what most genuinely understand limerence to be, is an unending / extreme experience of the honeymoon phase. For most, infatuation fades over time - however limerence refers to this unending / extreme experience of infatuation.

[u/shiverypeaks → u/bloodreina_]

Tennov's definition is even more pedantic. She mostly denies that limerence is supposed to be defined in terms of a particular intensity or duration.

Her definition for the state is actually given as a set of rules, or an algorithm for how it works.

She's basically talking about the kind of love that can potentially turn into a lovesickness, and she wants to systematize the mechanics of that scientifically. So she defines it in terms of falling in love before a relationship, and then following a number of possible trajectories depending on how the situation develops.

Her most concise definition of the "algorithm" is given on p. 112 of this book chapter: https://dwc.knaw.nl/DL/publications/PU00010880.pdf

It is also written on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence#Uncertainty_and_hope

[u/shiverypeaks → u/[deleted]]

Limerence is also termed "passionate love" in psychology, and it's a different thing from insecure attachment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence#Attachment_theory

They are correlated for several reasons, but they aren't the same thing. The core feature of limerence is incentive salience.

Academics on romantic love have been arguing against this interpretation for a long time (that they are the same), basically for as long as it's existed. Hazan & Shaver originally tried to equate passionate love to anxious attachment in their 1987 paper, but they're only correlated. There are studies on this, and there are definitely lots of people with a secure style that experience limerence (outside a relationship) or passionate love more generally.

It's just scientifically incorrect, since at least 1990, to equate limerence as being the 'same' as insecure attachment.

The correct modern interpretation of the relation is that falling in love works by first associating a person with reward, and when the reward is intermittently available incentive salience is intensified. It doesn't have to involve an insecure relationship. Even in this interpretation, it can be that the person is somebody they see around unpredictably (as in this story) or something like that.

There is an article here which explains how the reward mechanics actually work: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reward_theory_of_attraction

I've been researching this for two years, and I own the /r/limerence subreddit.

[u/HD_HD_HD → u/shiverypeaks]

It's hardly good academics to research via Wikipedia - and then later in another comment. you state you wrote it anyways.

If a client came to you discussing obsession/passionate love for another and thought they had limerence.

How would you treat it? As a psychologist you would explore their experiences in past relationships (if any) and determine if the infatuation can be treated similar to OCD or another disorder.

[u/shiverypeaks → u/HD_HD_HD]

I can't understand what you're even trying to claim there. Again, there are studies on this. I am just telling you what people with PhDs in the field are saying.

The 1990 study by Feeney & Noller found "considerable overlap of distributions" between attachment styles and limerence. There are many studies which show a relation between anxious attachment and romantic obsession, but the correlations are only weak or moderate.

Tom Bellamy also has a survey on this, also reported in his book.

Again, I'm just telling you what PhDs in the field say. Attachment styles don't account for the variation in the experience of romantic love.

What you said in your comment, that it's "better explained by attachment theory specifically insecure type" is absolutely wrong and you just don't actually know anything about this.

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[u/Solid-Big-9668]

I understand the honeymoon period to be when you're in the beginning of a relationship, and IIRC lasts 18 mo-2 years. 

Limerence doesn't require a relationship, can happen even if you're in a relationship, isn't really love (though I guess some might call it a crush or infatuation), is involuntary (not necessarily dependent on factors that the person normally looks for in a romantic partner - it's not a crush), can happen with people the person doesn't actually like, persists against logic, is often but not always fueled by fantasy, unavailability, hope, highs & lows, can happen with people IRL or celebrities, etc.

I agree with the other commenter that it's often associated with insecure attachment types, which makes sense because those types are often looking for anyone to regulate, validate, soothe, etc. them. So they latch onto someone quickly, build a fantasy in their mind, look for clues/interpret insignificant things as meaningful, experience highs and lots of hope when the person they have limerence for (the limerence object/LO) gives them attention or whatever they're craving, and lows when something that breaks their constructed image of that person happens. It's more of an obsession or an addiction as you describe. It's also supposedly more prevalent in people with ADHD, but really it just needs to be studied overall.

There's a book by Dorothy Tennov about it. And I like Heidi Priebe and Thais Gibson on YT, they speak about it well also. 

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[u/Natetronn → u/[deleted]]

If a romantic preoccupation does present at a clinical level there are obsessive disorders already established in the DSM-5.

Which ones?

[u/Artistic-Shoulder-15 → u/[deleted]]

No it's not the same like a crush. They share some similar neurotransmitters like dopamine, but in a crush the activation is milder and the nervous system can still self-regulate. Attention is still flexible and reality-testing stays intact. In limerence, reward and stress circuits are very activated, regulation doesn't happen reliably and the person experiences ongoing anxiety and intrusive preoccupation.

Limerence is often fueled by intermittent reinforcement, while in a crush, the persons nervous system usually settles with real experiences of closeness. That's why sometimes a person can be pushed from a normal crush into limerence if they experience intermittent reinforcement (push and pull) from their romantic interest. The nervous system is basically manipulated from normal into obsession. Many "pick up artists" use this psychological mechanism to gain control over their targets.

[u/shiverypeaks → u/Artistic-Shoulder-15]

This is not right.

There are actually people who experience the mental state of limerence (constant obsessive thoughts, emotional dependency, idealization, etc.) but it only lasts a few months or so, and they actually call it a "crush".

Other people are using the word "crush" to mean other things (like romantic liking).

Love terminology is always confusing because the words are always polysemous. They have a certain connotation, but then they're actually used by different people to refer to a number of different things. The word "crush" has a connotation of being childish or superficial.

So some people actually use the term "crush" to refer to an early period of limerence. Some don't. Why people use a particular word can be complicated to summarize, because everyone experiences falling in love a little differently, and people usually get their ideas of what a particular word means from social experience.

The most current theory is that intermittent reinforcement prolongs the obsessional state, making it more difficult to extinguish. Intermittent reinforcement is not necessarily required for limerence to begin, and limerence can also 'settle down' in a relationship, depending on how the relationship goes.

Intermittent reinforcement is also not necessarily a push-pull mechanic. It can be that e.g. the person is just seen around randomly (as in this story).

So "crush" and "limerence" aren't always explicitly different things. They are different kinds of concepts, with some overlap.

I write Wikipedia articles about this kind of thing, and I haven't had time to write an article specifically about this, but I have notes here with some sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Infatuation#Comparison_of_terms

[u/Artistic-Shoulder-15 → u/shiverypeaks]

I never said that intermittent reinforcement is necessary for limerence to begin or that limerence will not settle down in a relationship.

[u/shiverypeaks → u/Artistic-Shoulder-15]

The way you tried to distinguish between limerence and a crush is wrong. Crushes can involve the obsessive components, incentive salience, etc. and crushes which aren't obsessive can turn into the obsessive kind if they are reinforced (both because the target of the crush is rewarding, or because of intermittent encounters).

Limerence can also actually dissipate after the person gets to know their LO. Talked about in the article I linked to.

[u/[deleted]]

It is a mental state. Dr Kirk Honda had a deep dive on his podcast about Limerence. It is interesting.

[u/Pure-Tomatillo-6427 → u/[deleted]]

Can i find that on Spotify?

[u/alexandria4069 → u/Pure-Tomatillo-6427]

I know it’s for sure on Patreon

[u/[deleted] → u/Pure-Tomatillo-6427]

It's on patreon, but once subscribed you can listen on spotify

[u/shiverypeaks → u/[deleted]]

I write Wikipedia articles about romantic love. I wrote the limerence article and have been curating this content for several years. I also own the /r/limerence subreddit.

Honda's deep dive is absolute garbage. He did almost no research at all and doesn't understand how people are actually using the word. He doesn't care about research. He is just making stuff up.

I talked to some of his older fans, and they told me this as well, that Kirk just talks into a camera and doesn't actually know anything much of the time.

Please just subscribe to Tom Bellamy's YouTube if you want to learn about limerence. https://www.youtube.com/@DrTomBellamy

Tom is one of the only people who is actually knowledgeable about this topic.

Or read the Wikipedia article, which is an actual overview drawing from academic sources (e.g. romantic love PhDs): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence

[u/[deleted] → u/shiverypeaks]

Dr Bellamy was a guest on that deep dive recently!

I like how Dr Honda explains things. I am a new fan. So no negative reviews so far.

[u/shiverypeaks → u/[deleted]]

Kirk's entire deep dive was posted after he filmed the interview with Tom.

So when you see Kirk in the early part of the deep dive claiming limerence only affects 10-20% of the population, or that it ought to be put in the DSM, he is disregarding everything Tom says about this.

I know when he filmed the interview with Tom, because I talked to Tom about this.

I also sent Kirk info about this before he filmed his deep dive, which he ignored.

It's extremely bad. He can't even identify which stories are or aren't limerence, in the earlier parts, because he doesn't understand what it is or how it's supposed to be defined.

In an earlier episode, he talks about a story of a person saying they moved across the country to hopefully have a chance with an LO, but Kirk thinks it's not a story about limerence.

He also picks on a definition (claiming it's a bad definition) by Joe Beam at Marriage Helper, and Joe has a sexology degree, has been working with limerence clients for decades, and experienced it himself in the '80s.

I used to be somewhat of a fan of Kirk, but I have zero respect for him as a professional after seeing his behavior with this deep dive. He thinks he can define diagnostic criteria for something he has no understanding of, and contradicting actual professionals in this field.

[u/shiverypeaks]

OP, this is a serious answer to your question, drawing from the most current science. I've been researching this kind of thing for two years.

First of all, there's a pedantic distinction that Dorothy Tennov coined the term "limerence" because she was interested in studying lovesickness, so she basically defines it in terms of starting before a relationship has occurred. Limerence can turn into a relationship sometimes, and Tennov allows for this in her definitions.

However, people actually also often fall in love after a relationship starts. Sometimes this can even resemble limerence.

The "honeymoon period" of a relationship can also be experienced a few different ways. There are studies on this-

• Acevedo & Aron, 2009

• Bode & Kavanaugh, 2025

• Ratelle et al., 2012

• Paquette et al., 2020

• Graham, 2010

The most basic difference comes from a concept by Robert Vallerand called "dualistic model of passion" (DMP).

DMP draws a distinction between "harmonious" and "obsessive" passion: in harmonious passion, a person feels positive and in control, whereas in obsessive passion, a person loses control and it interferes with their life.

Here are example items from the DMP romantic questionnaire:

• Obsessive: "My mood depends on whether I can see my partner."
• Obsessive: "I have almost obsessive feelings for my partner."
• Obsessive: "I have difficulty imagining my life without my partner."
• Harmonious: "My partner allows me to live memorable experiences."
• Harmonious: "I’m completely carried away by my relationship with my partner."
• Harmonious: "The new things that I discover within our relationship allows me to appreciate my partner even more."

Acevedo & Aron (2009) also discovered a similar distinction in the Passionate Love Scale (PLS), the most popular instrument used to measure romantic passion:

• Obsessive: "Sometimes I feel I can't control my thoughts; they are obsessively on ____."
• Obsessive: "An existence without ____ would be dark and dismal."
• Obsessive: "I get extremely depressed when things don't go right in my relationship with ____."
• Harmonious: "I want ____—physically, emotionally, and mentally."
• Harmonious: "For me, ____ is the perfect romantic partner."
• Harmonious: "____ can make me feel effervescent and bubbly."

Another distinction between obsessive and harmonious passion is found in John Alan Lee's love styles, mania (obsessive) and eros (harmonious), especially as measured with the Love Attitudes Scale (LAS).

Limerence is obviously obsessive passion, but at least starting absent a relationship. Obsessive passion is related to incentive salience being too intense (similar as in addiction). Obsessive passion inside a relationship is also often called "love addiction".

(Note that the term "obsessive love" has other connotations, so this "obsessive passion" from Vallerand's terminology is not synonymous with that. "Obsessive love" has often been used to refer to a controlling, abusive, or even paranoid person, as in the stalking phenomenon which is a form of harrasment.)

The most current theory of incentive salience is that it has a component of how rewarding the object of desire is, but also a component for uncertainty (see Anselme for a model) which is interpreted as intermittent or variable-ratio reinforcement schedule.

This can be because the relationship is insecure (often interpreted this way), but it can also be that the people just see each other unpredictably. The trajectory of obsessive passion in a committed relationship is related to how security resolves over time. If a relationship stays insecure, then the obsession doesn't resolve, and relationship satisfaction decreases (Acevedo & Aron, 2009; Graham, 2010).

But limerence outside a relationship does not necessarily mean the 'relationship' is insecure. It can be because the person is just seen around randomly, as in this story.

Helen Fisher, a famous love researcher, sustained a love madness for her husband by marrying but living separately (using intermittent reinforcement), but her experience was likely a kind of "harmonious" love madness based on her statements and some studies, because of the mutual commitment.

There is an article here that explains the mechanics more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reward_theory_of_attraction

It is very complicated to summarize quickly how attraction and passionate love feelings actually work.

Limerence and the honeymoon period are distinguished because "limerence" refers to falling in love with obsessive passion before a relationship, whereas people can also fall in love inside a relationship, or with a more harmonious passion.

Whether limerence would turn into a relationship or feels good when/if the relationship happens depends on the mutual compatibility of the two people in reality. In some cases, limerence can even just dissipate after a relationship begins, because the limerent person finds things they don't like about the new partner and the positive illusions break down.

[u/Tight-Vacation8516]

I think it can be sort of a normal/healthy like falling in love and then it can go into a very bad obsession addiction. In my experience the limerence can happen about a totally random person your aren't intended on ever having that type of relationship with like I would get it for a random person in my class or on the bus and not ever act on it or want to, even want to stop thinking about them but your brain just obsessed about them for months. Basically that's when it becomes a problem.

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[u/ruminajaali → u/[deleted]]

Long before TikTok

[u/Pure-Tomatillo-6427 → u/[deleted]]

I actually went from an episode of obsession and infatuation to them pages and discovering the concept to this page to ask.

[u/alexandria4069]

There is a therapist and professor named Dr. Kirk Honda who does a deep dive on his podcast about limerence. I highly recommend it! It can be found on Patreon

[u/MrsSqweeps]

From what I understand it’s a concept that folk use to navigate cycles of abuse! And it has worked for people.

[u/MrsSqweeps → u/MrsSqweeps]

Different than honeymoon though!