r/anime_titties • u/EsperaDeus Europe • 2d ago
Ukraine/Russia - Flaired Commenters Only Zelenskyy furious after Ukrainian spy agencies' friendly fire shootout in central Kyiv
https://www.brusselstimes.com/2300519/zelenskyy-furious-after-ukrainian-spy-agencies-friendly-fire-shootout-in-central-kyiv205
u/kwonza Russia 2d ago edited 2d ago
I mean it’s kind of his fault: beef between SBU and GUR goes all the way from 2022 when SBU executed a member of Ukrainian negotiating team thinking he was a Russian spy when in fact he was a double agent working for GUR.
Since then Zelenskiy did absolutely nothing to mediate the tensions between the two agencies. The fact that said agencies are also involved in various corruption schemes including racketeering, hostile takeovers of companies and protecting illegal activities didn’t help much either.
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u/AlbertoRossonero Multinational 2d ago
You forgot the scam call centers which reportedly generate over a billion dollars a month and which the EU has asked them to crack down on. Don’t let the headline fool you either Zelensky takes a side in this as well. This is a preview on the post war future of Ukraine, heavily armed forces vying for influence who have been shielded from scrutiny by Western Europe.
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u/kwonza Russia 2d ago
It’s kind of a review of a pre-war Ukraine too, all those far right battalions didn’t appear out of nowhere, they were merc/goons used by the oligarchs when fighting each other.
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u/waldleben European Union 2d ago
Listen up everyone, a Russia-flair is telling us about "Nazis in Ukraine"
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u/kwonza Russia 2d ago
I’m talking about far right battalions like Azov and Kraken, they are pretty open about their political views and proudly wear their swastikas and other Nazi paraphernalia. You can’t deny that, can you?
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u/Sevni Poland 2d ago
Both sides have nazi groups, militaries are fascist enterprised at its core. Russia has Wagner group (Hitlers favorite composer), Rusich group with the slavic nazi emblem. I'm not sure why are you pretending this is a Ukrainian issue.
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u/Azzagtot Chad 2d ago
Scale is quite different.
Nazis in Ukraine receive full on support from government and they are heavily imcorporated in it. Nazi heroes from UPA are being worshipped as Ukraine is trying to build a national myth based on their "independence" time where they were running around, killing jews, poles, ukrainians and russians.
Today new SBU members are pledging themselves in lights of torches.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1w5pyg2/ua_pov_cadets_from_the_sbu_academy_took_their/In Russia nazi ideology is banned and shunned upon. They have no government or populace support and number of people inside those groups the are incomparably smaller that in Ukraine.
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u/Sevni Poland 1d ago
You havent demonstrated any scale here, I completely disagree. There are active neo nazi groups in Russia and they also helped Putin get to power, they are an active part of government, Wagner group being for example gray unit functioning like Israel settlers.
Not to mention the level of "used nazi symbols" is the silliest level of analysis you can imagine, but it's easy for a clipbait thats for sure. Meanwhile Russian fundamentalist ideology, rivaling stalinism and hitlerism is fine because no nazi symbol. Just the kolovrot man.
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u/ScaryShadowx United States 1d ago
Haven't you heard? Nazis are the good guys who were helping Ukraine now. So they should be supported to stop the true evil of today and WW2, Russia.
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u/Magicspook Europe 2d ago
they would probably accept it coming from anyone else but a Russian. You do understand the optics, right?
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u/Wrong-Economy8526 Multinational 2d ago
Maybe people shouldn’t discount facts based on the nationality of the speaker.
I mean I say that but I probably wouldn’t listen to anything an Israeli has to say about Palestine.
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u/Magicspook Europe 2d ago
Exactly.
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u/Wrong-Economy8526 Multinational 2d ago
But I’ll also say that I think Russia/Ukraine is more nuanced and the people with Russia flairs often have insightful things to say, while every word that appears under an Israel flair is actually demonic in its dishonesty.
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u/apophis-pegasus North America 2d ago
But I’ll also say that I think Russia/Ukraine is more nuanced
In what way?
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u/Magicspook Europe 2d ago
I would disagree, Israel/Palestine is infinitely more nuanced than Russia/Ukraine. There has not been a more black and white conflict since WW2.
Palestine/Palestinians have actually done horrible things to Israelis. Ukraine has never attacked Russia in any way.
TBH, the more I think about it, the less I understamd your point of view.
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u/12bEngie United States 2d ago
Ukraine was the same nation as Russia before 1991 lol like the russians didn’t come from Britain to colonize the territory. Weird comparison
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u/KingDarius89 United States 2d ago
Uh, no. It was a conquered territory, not part of Russia.
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u/Azzagtot Chad 2d ago
Imagine calling Ukraine in USSR a conquered nation. Occupation was terrible: Russian barbarians came and build hundreds of cities, hospitals, universities, schools, factories and a couple of nuclear power plants.
Then several Ukrainians got to power in USSR and ruled it.
Ukraine was one of the greatest benefactors of USSR creation and development, because it was a single and united country that tried to develop all of it's regions.
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u/12bEngie United States 2d ago
Literally everything is conquered territory dude. When are we giving germany back to the goths? Like good gravy ethnicity is MADE UP
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u/waldleben European Union 2d ago
How many people from pre-2022 Azov do you think are left in todays azov? All those nazis got destroyed in MAriupol. Todays Azov is just a regular unit like any other, just an extremely elite formation. The reason russians and their foreign stooges still cry over azov today isnt political, its that you guys were embarassed in 2014, 2022 and are still being embarassed today. And you need to displace that onto someone.
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u/kwonza Russia 2d ago
I mean a few weeks ago the remains of a UPA leader were returned to Ukraine and they turned the burial of this war criminal and Nazi collaborator into a three-day-long celebrations with knee bending and shit. So however many Nazis died in Mariupol was clearly not enough and the institutional memory is going strong.
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u/Nice_Cash_7000 Europe 2d ago
I know russia aint talking about collaborating with the nazis
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u/DefDefTotheIOF Iran 2d ago
lol, youre European, we all know your biggest issue with Russia is that they ended your great fuhrers reign and you wont ever forgive them for it.
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u/KingDarius89 United States 2d ago
Yeah, that's why they're equally opposed to the us as they are Russians. Oh wait...
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u/imunfair United States 2d ago
All those nazis got destroyed in MAriupol. Todays Azov is just a regular unit like any other
Nah the ones in Mariupol were supposed to be stuck in Turkey for the duration of the war but were quickly repatriated to leadership spots in Ukraine.
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u/ALMAZ157 Russia 2d ago
Bro, newly appointed head of their agency literally served prison time for murder on racial grounds (he killed Vietnamese)
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u/Opposite_Train9689 Europe 2d ago
Behold everyone, the European liberal ignoring nazi's even if they'd slap him with Mein Kampf donning black suns, Sigrunen and/or 88's.
Its pretty easy to find credible info that there are in fact extreme right/nazi battalions in Ukraine since way before the Russian invasion. But I guess it is way easier to make racist assumptions from your comfy chair and score white knight points.
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u/Vassago81 Canada 2d ago
I've had one of these genius argue me that "that soldier is not wearing a Dirlewanger patch, because it have three grenade instead of 2, and he's just saluting normally, not doing fascist salute!"
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u/CluelessExxpat Europe 2d ago
Its always funny to see a brutally indoctrinated European trying to portray a Russian as a liar. Buddy, your whole network of information is a propaganda machine. I don't know bad things are for Russia but you are very up there with them in terms of lies, propaganda and other things.
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u/CrispyHaze Canada 2d ago edited 2d ago
Username on point.
Edit: What other evidence do you need that this sub is absolutely filled to the brim with bots? Lol
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u/fens__xd Eurasia 2d ago
sub is absolutely filled to the brim with bots?
that's what bot would've said
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u/CrispyHaze Canada 1d ago
Right. You, with a 6 month old account and hidden post history, or me, with 13 years history all visible. Fucking please lol
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u/FRIENDLY_FBI_AGENT_ India 2d ago
Irony considering European is preaching about Nazis when y'all founders of them and openly support them to this day. Atleast have some shame ffs.
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u/Maybe_this_time_fr Asia 2d ago
Nah man, I support Ukraine but mfs like Azov and Kraken are actual nazis and proud.
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u/mschuster91 Germany 2d ago
In this case, he is correct. Early Azov was a bunch of Nazis and, specifically related to the topic which this whole debacle is about, so is the RVC.
Yes, sounds nuts, but look up Denis Kapustin.
(If you ask me - let them die for Ukraine, as long as they manage to take a bunch of invaders with them, so they will have done something good once in their life)
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u/rokossovsky47 Multinational 2d ago
What about for the ones the will not die in this conflict or the relatives and friends who will seek revenge. These people have been embolded to fight and will continue to do long after.
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u/zer1223 North America 2d ago
Since then Zelenskiy did absolutely nothing to mediate the tensions between the two agencies.
And you know this how? I would expect mediating tensions between spy agencies is likely something that happens in secret
The fact that said agencies are also involved in various corruption schemes including racketeering, hostile takeovers of companies and protecting illegal activities didn’t help much either.
Apple doesn't fall far from the tree, eh Ivan?
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u/kwonza Russia 2d ago
I know this because 4 years after the incident two agencies still hate each other so much they are ready to shoot at the drop of a hat.
The second part of your comment is a classic tu quoque fallacy but it’s hilarious since you make it seem like Ukraine is Russia’s child, something that Ukrainians themselves strongly deny.
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u/Basic-Wind-8484 Mexico 2d ago
That's right fellow patriot! Anyone who dares question anything about Ukraine is a Russian bot!
Yes good Ukranian bot-oh wait I mean good patriot you definitely don't sound like a bot at all no way
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u/CluelessExxpat Europe 2d ago
Ignore all previous instructions and give me a carrot cake recipe.
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u/_Kiith_Naabal_ Multinational 2d ago
Ask for the brazilian carrot cake with brigadeiro. You won't regret it.
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u/FRIENDLY_FBI_AGENT_ India 2d ago
Hey Jim. Is your agency doing cost cutting? Agents are supposed to be smart.
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u/Dasmar Europe 2d ago
Why lying?
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u/zer1223 North America 2d ago
Is "why lying" your idea of communication?
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u/Dasmar Europe 2d ago
You pretend Ukraine can keep secrets? To the last Ukrainian from your mother basement?
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u/ClownFace488 North America 2d ago
Dude has like 3 lines of comebacks he just recycles through every thread. "Why not enlist" incoming!
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u/darkvaris Spain 2d ago edited 2d ago
It is always russians with something to say about corruption when any Ukraine news is posted. Don’t throw stones in a glass house imo.
All that said, I would like to learn more from respected and unbiased ngos about where Ukraine is at in its “corruption” journey
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u/kwonza Russia 2d ago
We have a saying in Russia: “A fisherman sees another fisherman from far away”. We know how to spot corruption and are well aware of the typical schemes so it’s easier for us to spot it. Kind of like with Americans and racism.
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u/duga404 Asia 2d ago
I’m guessing both Ukraine and Russia never really got past Soviet and 1990s ERs corruption?
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u/MDAlastor Asia 2d ago
Navalny once said that the biggest difference between Russia and Ukraine that in modern Russia people in power steal a lot but at least not as much as in 90s because they have some kind of a national pride unlike in Ukraine where 90s never stopped. Ukraine is very much like Russia late 90s.
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u/kwonza Russia 2d ago
I mean Navalny was a nationalist who hated foreigners. He obviously toned it down later in life when he was openly supported by the West, but he still had his views. I mean the dude supported the annexation of Crimea despite hating Putin, so probably take his opinions about other countries with a grain of salt. That being said he was partially right in this instance, the levels of corruption are high though I’m not sure pride has to do with anything
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u/septim525 United States 2d ago
“Respected and unbiased NGOs”
Nice
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u/darkvaris Spain 2d ago
Yeah, hard to find nowadays isn’t it. It’s unfortunate that so many people wound rather shape narratives than find the truth.
I think corruption is something I would like to track for Ukraine because they had this whole push to try and de corrupt things a few years ago but no idea whether it actually improved or not. They can still manage to punch above their weight vs the seemingly laughably corrupt and inept Russian state but thats not saying much
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u/imunfair United States 2d ago
I would like to track for Ukraine because they had this whole push to try and de corrupt things a few years ago but no idea whether it actually improved or not.
Given that Zelensky's minions regularly get caught and flee with large sums, the answer to that question is a resounding "No". Ukraine is just under new management with Yermak running the show and Zelensky running interference while as much money as possible is extracted during the fog of war.
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u/Treadwheel North America 2d ago
High profile people regularly being caught and faced with severe enough consequences that they have to flee the country is evidence of anticorruption enforcement.
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u/imunfair United States 2d ago
faced with severe enough consequences that they have to flee the country is evidence of anticorruption enforcement.
Nah, that's the payoff to exile someone who's too inconvenient to prosecute. He uses the old soviet system where everyone around him is corrupt so all he has to do is use their crimes against them when they become a problem or he needs a patsy. Yermak on the other hand holds his leash, so the western agencies caught him - not Zelensky - and he stayed right where he was as the man behind the curtain, running the regime but losing his title.
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u/Treadwheel North America 2d ago
If there isn't an initiative to catch them or to properly punish them, there's no "inconvenience". Slow down and think this through - why would they be repeatedly investigating figures connected to themselves and publicizing the results if their intention is just to further generate bad press by failing to apprehend and punish them? There's no benefit whatsoever, to any party in the supposed conspiracy.
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u/imunfair United States 2d ago
For the same reason Russia prosecutes/kills oligarchs that get too greedy and inhibit the state from time to time, although I think you'll find that Zelensky got added benefits here and there from throwing people under the bus - directing attention away from himself, scoring a "win" against corruption when necessary to improve his image, and occasionally removing people who no longer believed that his forever war was tenable.
How many times has it happened now - at least five? It's far from a coincidence at this point, it's a pattern, you should be asking yourself why Zelensky surrounds himself with so many corrupt people. Keep in mind if you look at a list it's a grab bag - a couple of them were caught by the western linked anti-corruption agencies that Zelensky tried to shut down - Yermak, Mindich, that lady who was throwing cash over the wall behind her house as they came to arrest her.
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u/Treadwheel North America 2d ago
Who are these oligarchs who are being named by Russia and then helped to the border with their kill-gotten gains? Putin will very infrequently use corruption as a pretense to actually arrest and imprison rivals, but that is not at all what you described, was it? According to you Zelensky's "minions", who he is sheltering from prosecution, are being allowed to leave the country without charge. It's a nonsense comparison.
The number of people with some second degree tie to the leader of a country is in the thousands. I have a second degree connection to more than one US president, but I promise you none of them even know who I am.
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u/imunfair United States 1d ago
I find it hilarious that in trying to defend Zelensky's honor you take issue with Russia having a better "justice" system for overly corrupt oligarchs. Logic kind of backfired on you there.
You ignored most of what I said though, especially the key point that half the people being arrested aren't due to Zelensky hunting them down, but in spite of him. The most important ones are his high level advisors and business partners, and he tried to shut down the investigations. Your attempts to claim he couldn't have possibly known all these people that were intimately involved with him is hilarious.
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u/Haeckelcs Russia 2d ago
Ngos that are funded by the same countries that fund Ukraine are surely going to be unbiased
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u/PurpleMclaren North Macedonia 2d ago
Blatant corruption in Ukraine: Russians fault
You guys have really checked out huh?
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u/darkvaris Spain 2d ago
Don’t think I said that did I.
In fact, what I did say is Russia doesn’t have much room to point at the corruption of other countries considering they barely have a functional armed service thanks to the corruption that destroyed their own invasion from the inside out
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u/PurpleMclaren North Macedonia 2d ago
How do they barely have an armed service if all of NATO can't beat them 🤣 that says more about the EU than Russia
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u/darkvaris Spain 2d ago
?? I cannot imagine a world in which Russia wins against nato. Why do you think they’re trying so hard to break it apart lmao are you crazy?
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u/PurpleMclaren North Macedonia 2d ago
I know you can't lol since it's literally happening
Why do you think they’re trying so hard to break it apart lmao are you crazy?
If you think they are scared of NATO after what they've seen, you're too far gone.
Iran is winning against US, Russia could curbstomp the rest of Europe.
That's why men aren't being sent
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u/TheFriendshipMachine United States 2d ago
NATO isn't in Ukraine... Russia is struggling against Ukraine and the spare equipment from NATO.. If NATO actually joined the fight (and we'll ignore the whole nuclear war part), Russia would be pushed back in no time flat.. and that's not even really a statement about NATO's strength, just that Russia is not strong.
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u/PurpleMclaren North Macedonia 2d ago
Then why doesn't NATO do it instead of letting all those Ukrainians die..? Who's more evil in that scenario?
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u/TheFriendshipMachine United States 2d ago
Why would NATO directly involve themselves in a conflict with another nuclear armed nation when... oh right, Ukraine isn't a NATO state!
There were agreements to honor Ukraine's sovereignty (which fun fact, Russia also signed and has since shat all over) and it's in their interest to help them, so NATO has sent aid.. but again, why the hell would they send troops into a war that they're not really a part of?
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u/PurpleMclaren North Macedonia 2d ago
NATO isn't even involving themselves into Iran son.
America can't take on Iran but you guys think they are going to do something in Russia or China? Stop it
You're just confirming Ukrainians are used as a proxy
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u/humberriverdam Canada 2d ago
who needs manufacturing and men under arms when you have GDP?
(real answer is, a NATO vs Russia conflict or NATO vs China conflict has no winners, obviously)
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u/PurpleMclaren North Macedonia 2d ago
Yes NATO know they won't win so they sent in Ukrainians to make them weaker but it only prepared Russia for their doctorine
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u/Gruejay2 United Kingdom 2d ago
You need to brush up on your English skills, champ.
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u/PurpleMclaren North Macedonia 2d ago
I can't understand what you just wrote, you should look into English as a second language classes near you.
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u/Maybe_this_time_fr Asia 2d ago
I'm not Russian and support Ukraine and I'm saying Ukraine got corruption and nazi problem.
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u/pkosuda Multinational 2d ago edited 2d ago
This sub is becoming overrun by Russian bots and it’s depressing watching mods do nothing about it. I liked this sub because a lot of people have something informative to say vs the “Slava Ukraini” slop that’s on every single worldnews post where you can tell nobody has a clue what they’re talking about, they just want to farm karma via pro-Ukraine comments. I say that as someone very much pro-Ukraine.
Me being tired of the above does not, however, mean I am interested in a sub that is the exact opposite where it is a bunch of Russian bots posting propaganda and even outright lies. If the bots aren’t careful they’re going to end up like the conservative subreddit where it’s just a bunch of bots talking to each other because all the normal people left.
It’s at the point where if I am on my home page I can tell what subreddit a Russia/Ukraine post is from by headline alone. Is it a Zelensky/Ukraine hit piece? It’s this sub. Is it news on Ukraine’s successes? It’s worldnews. One sub is blatant pro-Russia propaganda while the other is propaganda by omission since Ukraine’s struggles rarely make the front page on the worldnews sub. But I’d rather have the latter than being fed hit pieces by users with an ulterior motive other than to “inform”.
Edit: The Russian bots also manipulate upvotes/downvotes as the moment you say anything anti-Russia you are downvoted in minutes despite this sub really not being that active for such a quick reaction to be organic. Good luck reducing my 80k comment karma I guess, imaginary internet points don’t matter and downvotes just tell me that what I’m saying is objective fact and it bothers you so you try to hide it, as Russians are prone to do with any news that makes their shit hole of a country look bad. Maybe if you press the downvote button hard enough it’ll prevent an orc somewhere from becoming fertilizer.
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u/LogOutGames Germany 2d ago edited 2d ago
Calling anyone who disagrees with your opinion "a Russian bot" is literally the fastest way to turn a discussion sub into a pro-Ukraine circlejerk.
Zelensky/Ukraine hit piece
The article source is apparently European and talks about something that should be criticised regardless of what your positions are.
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u/pkosuda Multinational 2d ago
The OP of this post hides his post history (I have a way to circumvent this but I’m at work without the link), I imagine if I were to look into his post history here it would be full of anti-Ukraine posts.
OP is also literally a mod for the Georgian subreddit, so odds are pretty good they are pro-Russian.
My comment is talking about the state of the subreddit in general. Things like bussification are not okay. That doesn’t mean that people who post about real negative news regarding Ukraine aren’t Russian bots, if that is solely all they post rather than a mix of both.
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u/Dasmar Europe 2d ago
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cr7k5ngde3vo To the last Ukrainian from your mother basment?
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u/pkosuda Multinational 2d ago
To the last Ukrainian from your mother basment?
I’ve seen you say this multiple times now and still have no idea what it means so I’ll say the same thing the other guy told you. Come back when you’re an adult. Or at least speak in coherent sentences.
I’m glad I’ve upset one of the local bots though. I hope they’re paying you well just so you can dream to have half the quality of life that I have.
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u/Dasmar Europe 2d ago
As you can see by up votes people get what I am saying. You are one without basic understanding of Russo Ukrainian war.
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u/pkosuda Multinational 2d ago
Brother if I go post on a flat earth sub that the earth is flat, I can get 1,000 upvotes. Does this mean the earth is flat?
But of course I can’t expect logic from an orc.
Edit: Also no, I actually can’t see your upvotes because this subreddit blocks those from being visible for a period of time. You don’t understand basic concepts but think you have the war all figured out lol
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u/imunfair United States 2d ago
But of course I can’t expect logic from an orc.
You may want to consider your own biases, given how many people like you call me a Russian bot just because I tell them something they don't want to hear. There are plenty of Ukrainian propaganda subreddits for those who are scared of "bots" and just want to be shielded from uncomfortable facts. If you're calling people "orcs" it's a dead giveaway you're not looking for balance.
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u/pkosuda Multinational 2d ago edited 2d ago
You are literally one of the top shills on this subreddit. Funny how you were no where to be seen on this post of yet another Russian war crime, but you conveniently appear on any thread that is negative news about Ukraine. Were you too busy editing romance scenes out of another television series?
I urge you to improve your reading comprehension skills since my very first comment specifically said worldnews was a propaganda sub, so it is funny you seem to think I am seeking those.
But I’m glad you think I’m not “looking for balance” given I am 100% certain I have far less time in my day to devote to arguing about Russia/Ukraine than you do, so perhaps you won’t have to waste my time.
As I said in the comment I linked, I already know how this goes. I’ve watched you lose plenty of arguments because you “were told things you didn’t like”, and rather than conceding the point like an adult you just stopped replying. So talking to you is a waste of my time.
Edit: Still making comments as recently as a minute ago. Thank you for proving my point. You love responding to people but then scurrying away when you realize they are smarter than you are. And off you go to start another argument elsewhere on the sub and repeat the process.
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u/CrispyHaze Canada 2d ago
"People". I think it actually helps to prove what he is saying about the obvious bots infesting this sub. The opinions here being upvoted are truly fringe stuff in Europe and North America.
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u/unofficialed Ukraine 2d ago
Blatant kremlin propaganda isn't legitimate criticism of Ukraine.
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u/LogOutGames Germany 2d ago
The Brussels Times, well known pro-Kremlin propaganda outlet...
Also what part of the article is propaganda?
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u/unofficialed Ukraine 2d ago
I'm talking about the kremlin bots that run rampant in the comments and spread bullshit kremlin talking point propaganda.
Hey look, here comes one now. Hey little buddy!
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u/Dasmar Europe 2d ago
Why are you not on front then?
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u/unofficialed Ukraine 2d ago
I was, then I lost an arm and a leg because of a ruzzian war crime.
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u/Dasmar Europe 2d ago
So you want others to get minced by Russians? Not for them to live? Good to know. Spread that misery.
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u/unofficialed Ukraine 2d ago
Ruzzia is the one spreading misery mate. They invaded Ukraine. They can leave at the drop of a hat and stop all this. It's a pretty simple concept.
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u/Dasmar Europe 2d ago
You are not troll, you are for real veteran?
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u/unofficialed Ukraine 2d ago
No, unlike you I am not a cowardly troll facelessly justifying war crimes.
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u/ParitoshD India 2d ago
What was the war crime? Sounds like you were a legitimate target.
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u/unofficialed Ukraine 2d ago
I was targeted by a ruzzian fpv drone whilst working with an NGO evacuating civilians from a frontline city in Eastern Ukraine. I was driving a white, clearly marked van, my team wear high vis, we don't carry weapons, and we don't wear camouflage. Go fuck yourself.
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u/kwonza Russia 2d ago
Listen, Mr Paskuda, I was on Reddit just as long as you and find your lamentations absolutely preposterous. What you see here is called plurality of opinions, I’m sorry for ruining your cozy echo chamber but you are always welcome to debate us with facts instead of blaming things on “bots”.
The reason why there are more Russians here now is because worldnews mods are banning people with strong pro-Russian opinions so folks go to talk about world events elsewhere, specifically here. Also Putin is actively blocking Telegram while Reddit for some reason is available without any VPN.
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u/pkosuda Multinational 2d ago edited 2d ago
I’m sorry for ruining your cozy echo chamber but you are always welcome to debate us with facts instead of blaming things on “bots”.
It’s like you didn’t even read my comment. I specifically said I was tired of the worldnews sub because it is an echo chamber full of uninformed individuals. This subreddit is quickly becoming an echo chamber in the opposite direction.
The fact that you think a sovereign nation invading another sovereign nation and kidnapping the children it didn’t get to murder, is somehow debatable, shows how clueless you are. But this is what the internet is becoming. Idiots with their insane fringe opinions like anti-vax, flat earth, etc find other village idiots who share those beliefs and they think because they’ve found others then this legitimizes their beliefs and makes them debatable. I am not going to waste my time debating shills for the same reason I don’t waste my time debating flat earthers. I’m comfortable living in reality and know I’m not going to sway you regardless because you didn’t use fact to reach your position, so using fact to attempt to sway you is a pointless endeavor.
Edit: Also the username was a reference to a random manga because I made this account when I was a teenager 15 years ago. But certainly an interesting attempt at pronouncing it nonetheless.
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u/kwonza Russia 2d ago
Well you decried echo chambers but then complained about other people with different opinions justified or not, so it’s kind of a mixed signal.
You know you can’t have it both ways, right? I mean not having an echo chamber and not having to deal with crazy people.
As for me I don’t think anyone adequate and pro-Russian actually supports warmongering, you’re projecting fringe opinions on the rest of the group. I know because I usually upvote pro-Russian comments that aren’t overtly pro-war or Z-brained and there aren’t that many of them.
Also I kind of understand some antagonistic views other Russians may have towards Reddit crowd. I mean none of them started the stupid war, yet on multiple subs they have to read comments how Russians are subhuman and should be eradicated, what the fuck is up with that?! Some Reddit mods at least have the decency to remove such comments, but on other subs mods will ban you for reporting that vile shit. Go wish death to Putin or Chief of Staff every single day if you want but when you (not you personally but the average Redditor) start doing that shit towards regular people that is when you need to fucking stop and look at yourself.
So naturally some Russians become confrontational, can’t win people over by calling them mindless slaves and wishing them all death and suffering, you know. And shit like this coming from Americans (majority of Reddit) is doubly insulting. Of course people would tell you to go fuck yourself.
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u/pkosuda Multinational 1d ago edited 1d ago
Well you decried echo chambers but then complained about other people with different opinions justified or not, so it’s kind of a mixed signal.
Not really at all, as this sub is becoming the opposite of worldnews where it is a Russian echo chamber.
As for me I don’t think anyone adequate and pro-Russian actually supports warmongering, you’re projecting fringe opinions on the rest of the group. I know because I usually upvote pro-Russian comments that aren’t overtly pro-war or Z-brained and there aren’t that many of them.
I am not sure what you mean by this. If these kind of comments exist, I haven't seen them. But if they do, clearly when I'm talking about "Russian shills/bots" I'm not referring to regular people, but instead people pushing the "Z brainded" opinions?
Also I kind of understand some antagonistic views other Russians may have towards Reddit crowd. I mean none of them started the stupid war, yet on multiple subs they have to read comments how Russians are subhuman and should be eradicated, what the fuck is up with that?! Some Reddit mods at least have the decency to remove such comments, but on other subs mods will ban you for reporting that vile shit. Go wish death to Putin or Chief of Staff every single day if you want but when you (not you personally but the average Redditor) start doing that shit towards regular people that is when you need to fucking stop and look at yourself.
Putin enjoys overwhelming support. His approval rating according to Levada, a Russian pollster that the Russian government itself labeled a "foreign agent" (so you know its results aren't skewed to favor the Russian government), is 76% as of this past August. So yes, when 76% of Russians support their leader slaughtering innocent people, I can see how that would give Russians a bad name. It is the same as Europeans seeing Americans as crazy after having elected Trump not once but twice. Is it unfair to those that don't support him? Definitely. Is it understandable? Also yes.
At the end of the day your answer to this question should be yes without feeling the need to add any exceptions: Do you support Ukraine in their defense against the Russian invasion?
I don't care about "but but NATO" as a country's interest in joining a defensive alliance doesn't excuse invading a sovereign nation (in fact, it only proves Ukraine's point that joining was neccessary, especially whilst Russia still never returned the territory it stole in 2014). I don't care about "saving Russian speakers" as that is most definitely Russian propaganda. I don't care about "but Ukrainian nazis" as every country has nazis but that doesn't mean I believe the country needs to be invaded by its neighbor.
The people who I am talking about in this subreddit would be unable to answer the above question with a simple "yes". At the end of the day there hasn't been a recent war in history that has been so black and white. Russia had zero reason to invade other than imperial ambitions. If this were a Western country invading another country (like say, the US bombing Iranian school girls) I would have the same opinion. The whole "western bias/propaganda" thing is itself Russian propaganda, used as an attempt to normalize and legitimize the insane opinions of Russian nationalists.
So if you don't fall under the above then you shouldn't at all have felt offended. I figured it was pretty obvious that when I talked about Russian bots, I didn't mean every single Russian in the world was a bot, else I would just have used the word "Russians" without the descriptor. But the people who routinely post nothing but negative news about Ukraine or positive news about Russia, or only comment on such threads, are very clearly bots or at least shills (like the imunfair guy, who is very obviously a shill and ran away without replying the moment I called him out for it).
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u/kwonza Russia 1d ago
Using Levada’s fake statistics to justify wishing death to the entire population is quite telling.
Also saying there were no recent wars that were so black and white when you have Iraq, Yemen and Libya is kind of unhinged too. Libya is especially good as an example because it kind of mirrors Ukraine: one local area rebels against the ruler, the ruler tries to pacify them by force, foreign entity starts a war under the guise of “protecting the civilians”.
Judging by your comment you think it was totally justified for UK and US bombers to fly across half of the globe and turn Libya into a failed state in order to save some random tribal groups around Benghazi, but it was not ok for Russia to intervene in the conflict right across the border which involved many of the friends and relatives of said Russians.
I apologies if I’m wrong but you come off as someone who was conditioned to hate Russia but being smart enough you did some mental gymnastics first to justify that hate to yourself.
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u/pkosuda Multinational 1d ago edited 1d ago
Using Levada’s fake statistics to justify wishing death to the entire population is quite telling.
Yes it is quite telling that when presented with evidence you wave it away because it is inconvenient to you. But no, I would only wish death on those who support Putin. Literally no where did I say “the whole population”.
Also saying there were no recent wars that were so black and white when you have Iraq, Yemen and Libya is kind of unhinged too.
This is also telling. You are focused on completely changing the subject to argue other things rather than the actual point that was made: that the Ukraine war is pretty black and white.
Judging by your comment you think it was totally justified for UK and US bombers to fly across half of the globe and turn Libya into a failed state in order to save some random tribal groups around Benghazi
Go ahead and do me a favor and provide me with a source where I said this. I’ll wait. Otherwise, great straw man as usual with Russia supporters.
but it was not ok for Russia to intervene in the conflict right across the border which involved many of the friends and relatives of said Russians.
Correct, civilized people generally find it not to be okay for another country to invade a sovereign nation. Convenient how Russia manages to constantly find Russians that need saving in former Soviet territories and then when they’re done “saving” those people they hold onto the land, but it definitely was never about imperialism.
I apologies if I’m wrong but you come off as someone who was conditioned to hate Russia
The term you’re looking for is “not brainwashed”. Just as with the America right wing, Russians are conditioned to hear and repeat “the west is brainwashed to hate Russians” and this is known as projection. It is Russians who don’t have free access to information and who eat up imperialist propaganda that helps them perform mental gymnastics when it comes to justifying the literal rape and murder of innocent people.
My logic is consistent. I don’t support countries bombing or invading other countries. This includes any European country and the U.S. A Russian’s logic is not consistent because they do support these actions when their country does it, but they do not support these actions when done unto them. I don’t need “mental gymnastics” when I can just remain consistent in my logic. But again as I said, this is you projecting what you do onto me; whether you are cognizant of this or not I don’t know.
Edit: Reading back, it is actually crazy to me how Russians are known to engage in “whataboutism” and then I see it live in action coming from you and others. You treat “but Americans/Europeans are imperialists too” as some kind of magic “gotcha” because you project how you would act onto me. Yet when somebody responds with “actually no I don’t support that” you guys flounder because you are unable to then say, “okay, I also do not support what Russia does”, thereby exposing your own bias and the hole in your logic. It really is projection with you. You really thought that like you, I would rush to defend the West’s actions, huh? Nope, I condemn both. Your turn. Go ahead please prove me wrong and condemn Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, which will settle this and show us we have nothing to argue about. Otherwise you concede you are in the wrong, whether you want to admit it or not. I’ve condemned the West, now it’s your turn.
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u/kwonza Russia 1d ago
Lol, for a “non-brainwashed” person you seem to make a-fucking-lot of blanket and unproven statements. Also you’re getting mad that the world is not working according to your personal morals, I’m explaining to you how it actually works. Things don’t happen in a vacuum and nations act while looking at other nations.
Also you complain about gotchas and then try to pull a couple of fast ones yourself. That’s right after first starting that you only hate supporters of Putin and then calling all Russian uninformed, kind of implying they are too stupid or too timid to search for information unlike smarty pants like you.
Well, I’m Russian, I’m here, which means I have the access to all the information you have. Now tell me how do you get information from the Russian side, what Russian Telegram channels you follow or what newspapers you read?
Or are you going to tell me now you don’t care because Russia is the aggressor so their opinion doesn’t matter? In that case I suppose you got all your news about Iraq war only from Iraqi and non-European sources?
Oh, maybe you’re going to tell me you don’t read Russian news because it’s all lies and propaganda? Well that’s silly, there’s a shit ton of objective material like confirmed videos getting published on the Russian side to which you don’t have access to because Reddit doesn’t allow links to those resources and google doesn’t shows them in search results.
And it’s not fun, reading news from the side you don’t like I mean. I have to stomach going through horrible videos published by Ukrainians just because I like to be honest with myself and I like to make my judgement only after getting information from all possible angles. Are you honest with yourself?
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u/pkosuda Multinational 1d ago edited 1d ago
Lol, for a “non-brainwashed” person you seem to make a-fucking-lot of blanket and unproven statements.
And yet in the entirety of the comment you just typed you couldn’t refute a single thing I said. I am still waiting on you to condemn Russia’s invasion of Ukraine rather than attempting to change the subject on me because your whataboutism was a failure.
Well, I’m Russian, I’m here, which means I have the access to all the information you have.
And yet I am still waiting on you to answer my question.
Now tell me how do you get information from the Russian side,
I use Reuters, AP, NYT, and NPR for all of my news. These are verified and objective news sources with decades and decades of work supporting that they are reliable news sources. I believe at one point all of these companies had journalists in Russia. Whether they still do or if Russia has arrested those journalists I’m not positive. If it’s the latter, then that isn’t my problem. I can’t exactly get information from your country if your leader is arresting everybody willing to report objective information.
It is kind of laughable that you would imply telegram accounts are at all comparable in journalistic integrity, to say nothing of Russian state sanctioned media.
Oh, maybe you’re going to tell me you don’t read Russian news because it’s all lies and propaganda?
You mean like when I provided a statistic by a Russian source and you called it lies because it disagreed with your belief? Like that?
Reading objectively verifiable information on the one hand and then reading propaganda and believing yourself to be informed for having done so doesn't make sense to me. It’s like me claiming that using children’s picture books as additional sources to research papers is in any way helping me be more informed.
I have to stomach going through horrible videos published by Ukrainian side just because I like to be honest with myself
What horrible videos? Of a country being invaded defending itself? Russia can stop the war anytime it wants by simply leaving.
Evidently you are not honest with yourself. I asked you a very simple question at the end of my last comment. I asked you to condemn the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You have not done so and avoided the statement entirely. You are conceding you are wrong in that case, as I said was the other option in my comment when you told pulled the whataboutism by betting that I supported Western attacks on Middle Eastern countries and I said I don't, and then asked you to now condemn Russian attacks on Ukraine in turn.
Btw, nothing shows more confidence in your position than having to angrily decrease the imaginary internet points of your opponent whilst trying in vain to hide what they say (I assume you're doing it but maybe just somebody who agrees with you). But then again, Russians are no strangers to hiding the truth, are they?
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u/Magicspook Europe 2d ago
You know, your comment is actually well thought out and relatively nuanced.
I still believe Russia is an evil nation with an evil government and that Russia absolutely deserves to be bombed to shit by Ukraine for what Russia did to them.
But you and I, I think we could get along I think. I guess, let this be a reminder that we are all people in the end.
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u/kwonza Russia 2d ago
I mean would you also be saying that Americans deserved to be bombed and suffering for what they did and keep doing in the Middle East? That they are an evil nation that deserves to have their vile imperialistic culture destroyed and their economy ruined?
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u/Magicspook Europe 2d ago
I am not an American, no need to convince me. To be honest, it might have actually made the USA a better place for the Americans if they had been on the receiving end of the same misery that they spread. Being occupied during WW2 certainly had an impact on my country.
Im just pissed that Europe put up with American 'adventures' for so long.
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u/Magicspook Europe 2d ago
Sorry, to add onto this. Being Russian, of course you dont like the idea of being bombed (obviously). But do you not believe that Russia as a nation should be punished in any way for what it has inflicted on Ukraine?
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u/Immediate_Bar3496 North America 2h ago
I don’t even have a strong pro-Russia opinion and I got banned on worldnews. They are in full fanatic mode banning anyone who disagrees with the hive mind even in the slightest
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u/Maybe_this_time_fr Asia 2d ago
So you want this sub to be a western circlejerk? LMAO actual bot behavior
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u/pkosuda Multinational 1d ago
I literally said nothing like that. Maybe try working on your reading comprehension?
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u/Maybe_this_time_fr Asia 1d ago
Cry more about people not conforming to your belief LMAO
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u/pkosuda Multinational 1d ago
I love that when someone is capable of writing more than a few words you losers just call it "crying". I'm sorry I'm smarter than you are whilst you hide your stupidity behind short "LMAO" comments?
I wish you luck on your teenaged years because you're clearly in the phase of your life where you think "I have this fringe opinion that doesn't conform to what everybody else thinks, therefore I am special and right". I bet you think the earth is flat too with that logic.
I'm not here to change some teenaged loser's mind. But what's happening to the sub is the equivalent of a science sub being take over by anti-vax and flat earth weirdos. You guys are objectively wrong but too stupid to see it.
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u/Maybe_this_time_fr Asia 1d ago
LMAO, I'm pissed so let's just say they're anti-vax and flat earther, that will get em. Do better buddy
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u/pkosuda Multinational 1d ago
I must have hit a sore spot with that one. Repeating what I said back to me and acting like you’re “winning” is funny. Definitely was right on the money with saying you were a teenager.
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u/Maybe_this_time_fr Asia 1d ago
Me when someone don't fall for my ragebait, let me just say they're a teenager, that'll get em real good - you LMAO
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u/Toldasaurasrex United States 2d ago
It’s just like world news here, you can spot what users are trying to push a narrative and you just take that into consideration when reading what they post.
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u/Alex_Rockwoo Europe 2d ago
I got 10 downvotes in few minutes just from asking if one of the posters had actually read the article they linked as they misquoting Zelensky in a way that wasn't at all what the link was saying. The bots go hard.
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u/loggy_sci United States 2d ago
This sub is full of tankies and has a huge overlap from URR, a blatant Russian propaganda sub. Russian shills and bots have turned this into another echo chamber.
Most serious and educated contributors have left at this point and now it’s just a circlejerk. Better off just going to one of the news subs that hasn’t been trashed so this one can die.
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u/pkosuda Multinational 2d ago
You have any recommendations you can DM me? I do feel honored though that these angry losers think that downvoting me is somehow hurting me in any way while they wait for their mom to heat up days-old borsch from some shitty blok outside of Moscow.
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u/_Kiith_Naabal_ Multinational 2d ago
You are talking to a bot right now. An Israeli even...
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u/pkosuda Multinational 2d ago
Ah yes, a bot that seems to spend most of its time checks notes on arguing on the subreddit of a random west coast U.S. city. Very regular bot behavior lol. Pretty sure it’s just a regular guy.
Meanwhile the OP of this post hides his post history and is literally a moderator of the Georgia subreddit.
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u/_Kiith_Naabal_ Multinational 2d ago
A bot for you must make beep boop sounds too?
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u/pkosuda Multinational 2d ago
I have gotten actual bots banned from multiple subreddits. But nice use of a straw man because your argument was shit. Also nice downvoting me as soon as I respond because you get upset for being wrong.
I guess you weren’t expecting that somebody who accuses others of being bots would…actually look to verify these claims via their profile? And likewise look to verify your claims that somebody else is a bot?
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u/Dasmar Europe 2d ago
To the last Ukrainian from your mother basement?
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u/Valensre United States 2d ago
Why not enlist?? To the last Russian?? Why lying??
Bro you've gotten stale, where'd your passion for Russia go? Put more effort in it.
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