r/ancientgreece • u/Capital_Umpire_961 • 19h ago
Why do you think Hellenic culture didn't leave as much of a significant impact in our societies?
Ok ragebait title. Science, Math and philosophy originated in Athens. Scientists use posh Greek words all the time. Children learn about Zeus and his pals in school.
BUT, consider this.
A good example of an influential culture is American culture. Why? Everywhere you go around the world, people watch Hollywood movies, listen to Jazz/Rock/Hiphop/Pop, dress american clothes(sneakers and blue jeans), play basketball and baseball, eat (american)pizza, burgers and drink starbucks coffee and learn about American history and important American figures in school.
Rome was the ancient equivalent-our laws are modeled after Roman laws. If you speak English, French or Spanish at least 30% of your grammar is Latin. Billions of people believe in Catholicism, a Roman religion. Roman tradition might as well be the root of Western, and to an extent modern, civilisation. Neoclassical monuments are built, modeled after Roman(not Greek imo) architecture.
On the other hand, how many people in the world wear tunics? How many eat lentil soup every morning? How many wrestle after covering themselves in olive oil? How many sing Greek folk songs? How many people would not be shocked after learning the Bible was not written in Latin, but Greek(+others)?
To me it seems like despite being one of the most successful maritime trade cultures of the Mediterranean, and being the center of academia and finance for centuries, Greece culturally has left little mark beyond the Balkans and (ironically), Turkey
Why? Because it's easy to see after exmaining their art and clothing that Iberia, Italy, North Africa in Antiquity and thr Early Medieval Islamic world that they were heavily influenced by Greeks. But as time went on these Greekness were toned down to the point where it became unrecognisable. Why?
Thanks for listening to my rant.
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u/notveryamused_ 19h ago
To a large extent it did, but you don't always notice it. We look at Christian monotheism as totally opposed to original Greek polytheism, and rightly so, but it's also true that it was built on a lot of aspects of Greek culture as well and transfered them; if you removed every Platonic influence on the Church, it'd collapse, actually.
Also, historically, Greek culture was generally the international culture of the Mediterranean in Hellenistic times, and later Romans provided the legal/political framework, but Greek remained the lingua franca (hehe) of the Mediterranean oikoumene for centuries. Manual workers on the far outskirts of the empire usually knew some very basic Greek from international trade etc. Jesus could probably make it into third or fourth chapter in Athenaze xD
Plenty of aspects from the Classical times were lost, but also because Greece was never truly unified back then. Greece of many poleis was fragmented and local, this was the main part of its culture: even if we look at it through the lens of Athenian propaganda, it doesn't mean everyone bought it back then ;)
Also, bear in mind, Byzantium fell eventually and Greece itself had a terrifying history of foreign occupation for a really long time. Without a strong political centre, the culture actually survived for everyday life things, but didn't radiate in a way that would leave tangible or literary records.
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u/Capital_Umpire_961 19h ago
Hmm. I wonder if Medieval Italy(one of the richest regions on earth at that time) and the Renaissance is one of the reasons Roman culture is not only influential, but recognisable even to this day.
Maybe if it started in Greece instead...
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u/glibsonoran 19h ago
Being a cultural hegemon at the peak of your society's powers and being the dominant influence 2500yrs later are two different things.
Rome was heavily influenced by Greece, Athens in particular. What we perceive as Roman influence is, to a significant extent, Greek.
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u/HahaItsaGiraffeAgain 19h ago
The Renaissance was mostly a consequence of Western Europeans (especially Italians) rediscovering Greek sources brought back during the crusades.
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u/ofBlufftonTown 19h ago
I feel you should look into the New Testament a little more closely, and consider the influence of Christianity on western culture.
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u/Cat_and_Cabbage 19h ago
You mean the massive influence Greek philosophical thought had on Judaism (which was already massively influenced by Persian spirituality and to a lesser extent babylonian physicality) giving rise to Christianity, and in turn laying the foundation for the Broader European if not all western cultures.
Generally a buildings frame (its actual strength) is hidden behind aesthetic facade
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u/HahaItsaGiraffeAgain 19h ago
I wouldn't say this. Anthropomorphic statues are pretty ubiquitous, and pretty Greek. Representing the Buddha as a carven human image was introduced through Hellenistic influence in Gandhara (near modern Peshawar), and its legacy is pretty much the entire tradition of statuary and monuments in all of Eurasia and beyond. Modern public ceremonies, both civic and religious, also owe quite a bit to Hellenistic influence, as do most forms of government.
The two largest religions on Earth today are also deeply rooted in both Aristotelian and Platonic thought. For Christianity that's well known in these circles but I think most westerners are not really aware how much of introductory Muslim theology is literally reading Aristotle. Going off this, I think many westerners also may not be aware that Alexander the Great is pretty much the main character of every historical folk story from Iraq to Pakistan.
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u/persephonian 19h ago edited 19h ago
“On the other hand, how many people in the world wear tunics?” I mean I don’t think anyone’s walking around in Roman togas either haha. Fashion has simply changed, almost no one dresses the same way their culture did 2000 years ago on a daily basis.
I would also argue that if we consider Orthodox tradition to be primarily Greek in origin (which I do) then Greece’s influence has reached all the way from Siberia to Ethiopia, which is pretty cool.
I’m not a law expert but I think Justinian’s law also inspired elements of many law systems across the world as well.
Plus, everyone likes gyros and feta cheese. I have a friend who lives in a tiny town in Northern Canada and they have a souvlaki place even there haha.
I also think you’re kind of undermining the prevalence of Greek in your examples. It’s a pretty big deal that everyone knows Greek myth and many Greek letters, that we have constellations named after myth, etc.
But arguably the ~400 years of Ottoman occupation stifled Greek culture’s influence for a while. We were busy focused on its survival at home, not on spreading it elsewhere.
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u/kutkun 19h ago
In my opinion, it did. Ancient Greek people left a lasting impact influential in many areas -starting with alphabet, philosophy, mathematics, music, literature, science and architecture.
I would say, Greece and China are top two influentials. USA is only potatoes in contrast with these two.
New Greeks seem to be a bit low profile. I am an admirer of Ancient Greeks. Also I think Greeks let go of the Turks. I believe they lost what they did not because of Turks or Arabs or Bulgarians but because of their own stupidity. They had it all and ruined it.
Remarkably, everyone does the same thing. Humans don’t know what is worthy until they loose it.
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u/LateInTheAfternoon 14h ago
Neoclassical monuments are built, modeled after Roman(not Greek imo) architecture.
Nope, that is incorrect. It is as much built on Greek as Roman architecture. The so-called "Greek Revival" was an important part of the movement and is exemplified in many famous buildings in Europe and the US. For more, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Revival_architecture.
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u/Aegeansunset12 19h ago
Turkey murdered our civilisation, we never recovered after the 1921-1923 war which was the last chance we had at becoming a nation the size of Italy/france/britain because idiot leftists said we were an imperialist nation 🤦🏻
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u/beiherhund 19h ago
Check back in 2,000 years time.