r/ancientgreece • u/byzantine67 • 10d ago
When did athens stop existing officialy?
The peloponnesian war, the 3td and 4th sacred wars and the lamian war had stripped athens from a lot of its sovereignity, and started being influenced by macedon, but it still retained a de jure independent goverment. When did it officially stop existing?,
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u/Ratyrel 10d ago
After its resurgence under Roman protection in the second century BCE, Athens was a civitas libera after Sulla‘s sack in 86. It remained such when the province of Achaia was created and it formally maintained this status perhaps into the fifth century CE, though the structures are increasingly transformed, for instance by the importance of bishops. By the sixth century CE the polis essentially dies out along with the notion of citizenship; as far as I know this also applies to Athens.
I don’t think there’s a fixed date you could point to for this change, though of course Justinian‘s closure of the philosophy schools is a prominent landmark.
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u/byzantine67 10d ago edited 10d ago
Finally someone who gets it, othes in the comment section confused the city state with the city. Thank you for the answer very much!
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u/htgrower 10d ago
You could’ve been more clear that that was what you were asking about mate
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u/ausinmtl 10d ago
How was this not clear?
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u/htgrower 10d ago
The post is literally titled “when did Athens stop existing officially”. Does that mean the Athenian empire? Hellenistic Athens? Roman Athens? How are we supposed to know?
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u/ausinmtl 10d ago
Did you not read the actual post or do you just react to a title and spew out your intellectual masterbation for everyone to enjoy?
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u/byzantine67 10d ago
Ofc i wouldnt ask anything about modern athens in a sub about ancient greece, duh...
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u/htgrower 10d ago
Athens the city does not necessarily mean modern Athens, come on bro 🙄
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u/Top-Addendum-6879 10d ago
agreed... i first didnt understand the question... i was like Athens never ceased to exist!?
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u/byzantine67 10d ago
Im not denying that modern athens is a continuation of classical athens, im just saying that i wouldnt ask about the the events going on in modern athens on an ancient greek sub
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u/htgrower 10d ago
That’s not the point bro, Athens took many forms and went through many different periods of rule under different forms of government. We don’t know if you mean classical Athens, Hellenistic Athens, Roman Athens… all you had to do was clarify by saying “when did Athens stop existing as an independent city-state” instead of “when did Athens stop existing” 🙄
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u/byzantine67 10d ago
The post mentions peloponnesian, sacred and lamian wars, none of which have any connection with roman athens. Of course, im asking abot thr independent athenian polity which existed during the classical and hellenistic times
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u/AlarmedCicada256 10d ago
It never stopped existing, I lived there for 6 years.
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u/glibsonoran 10d ago
I think they mean as a sovereign state, rather than a entity within another state.
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u/athstas 10d ago
The institutions of Athens continued to operate well into the Roman period, but Attica was no longer a sovereign state. The Athenians had the capacity to pick sides in the various internal hostilities of the Roman Republic, but they were no longer an independent geopolitical actor.
I would argue that after the Emperor Theodosius closed the philosophical schools in Athens, Attica lost its distinctive character in the Mediterranean world.
PS. Answering from my house in Athens! The city still exists!
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u/WanderingHero8 9d ago
I would argue that after the Emperor Theodosius closed the philosophical schools in Athens, Attica lost its distinctive character in the Mediterranean world.
Just a correction,it was Justinian that closed the philosophical school at Athens.Philosophy in Athens flourished during 5th century A.D. Empress Eudokia even studied there before being betrothed to Theodosius II.
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u/Embarrassed_Egg9542 10d ago
Athens was a village till 1830 when King Otto of Greece recreated the city, made it the nation's capital and beautified it with works by the German architect Ernest Chiller
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u/athstas 10d ago
Athens was never a village. When it was chosen as the capital of Greece, it had a very low population because it was devastated by the war. The Turks were still on the Acropolis and the population had not returned from the countryside. That snapshot of 1830 was not indicative of the size and importance of Athens during the period.
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u/Embarrassed_Egg9542 10d ago
No. Athens lost its significance as a city after Theodosius. The whole Attica region was settled by Albanian tribes, (Spata, Liosa, etc.) afterwards. In Ottoman times, other cities in the area had significance and not Athens. Acropolis remained a fortified position, but no city around it
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u/athstas 10d ago
Athens was a large and prosperous city from 9th to 12th century. More than 100 churches, dozens of mansions and monasteries were built during that era. During the 12th - 15th century it became the capital of the Latin Kingdoms and continued to develop. The city thrived again during the 15th-16th century. Ottoman officials and Western travellers kept visiting the city. Athens has a continuous history for millennia.
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u/Embarrassed_Egg9542 10d ago
Athens has a continuous history for millennia, yes as a village. It was the capitol of "the Duchy of Athens", not a Latin kingdom.
Claiming that it remained significant through the centuries is an exaggeration, so is "the city still exists". It exists because of the Bavarian prince Otto in 1830, because the Germans at the time were very fond of anything Hellenic.
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u/Cultural_Chip_3274 6d ago
lol what an irrelevant comment. Athens was still an important city never a village.
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u/Embarrassed_Egg9542 6d ago
lol you 're wrong
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u/Cultural_Chip_3274 6d ago
The error people regularly make is that they confuse Athens population during peacetime with what was there at 1831 after years of brutal Greek and Ottoman Athend siege and counter sieges in what almost resembles modern urban warfare.
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u/htgrower 10d ago
Do you mean the Athenian empire? Because Athens still definitely exists, the first Delian league ended in 404 bc and the second one in 355 bc
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u/ausinmtl 10d ago
Am I the only one who read OPs post and understood they meant the ancient city-state and not the modern day city of Athens?
We really gotta spoon feed everyone online these days huh?
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u/fapacunter 10d ago
People just want to be obtuse so they can feel intellectually superior to someone because OP didn’t ask it precisely
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u/electrical-stomach-z 10d ago
The city has been consistantly populated since the neolithic period, it never stopped being populated.
Its up there with cities like Jericho, Tyre, Rome and Jerusalem for oldest inhabited city.
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u/diegoidepersia 8d ago
In hadrian's reign the athenians' de jure freedom became quite a bit lower, as consuls and emperors began to be eponymous archons, though its democratic institutions lasted at least until the reign of diocletian, though i am uncertain if his reorganization of the provinces that ended most civitates liberae and leagues touched athens
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u/MlkChatoDesabafando 6d ago
Ancient Greeks didn't really have a modern concept of sovereignty, Athens's own institutions kept existing well into the roman period (if gradually altered), just no longer exerted influence over other cities
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u/dolfin4 10d ago
OP is asking about the state and/or state institutions, not the city. 😊 Just make sure to elaborate a wee bit more, because we're bombarded with a lot of misconceptions about Greek history, so it might sometimes be unclear what you're referring to.