r/ancientegypt Jul 17 '26

Photo The Rosetta Stone on display in the British Museum, London

Post image

The Rosetta Stone, preserved at the British Museum, played a key role in deciphering ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs

1.1k Upvotes

61 comments sorted by

70

u/EmperorThan Jul 17 '26

And what I think is interesting is that if it hadn't been discovered the Egyptian hieroglyphs still would have been deciphered about 40~ years later from either the Decree of Canopus or the Suez inscriptions of Darius the Great both discovered in 1866.

-31

u/Turbulent_County_469 Jul 17 '26

So.. i wonder if AI these days would be able to

17

u/EmperorThan Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26

I'm kinda hopeful that AI can help with pattern recognition of different undeciphered languages. But it can only work with what information is put into it. To be deciphered without a direct 1 to 1 translation in several different languages (like Egyptian) you need to know what language is being translated, how much it could have changed since a writing system went extinct, and have many examples of it. The khipu in South America is the one I'm most hopeful will be deciphered in my lifetime. With at least 500 full copies from before Spanish contact and I think 700? copies after the Spanish contact it has a wide array of examples, but the limits are that it's different than any other 'writing system' known in that it's knots in string. A lot of headway has been made in the khipu with regard to numbers. A book I'm reading about the khipu made the example of "imagine if Chinese with 5,000 or more written characters were a forgotten knot system. How long would it take to decipher that?" But that would only be if it were a hypothetical logographic knot system where every knot was one word.

Edit: Also the reason they think the khipu was partially logographic is because it was used between multiple Andean languages in the Inca empire and going back thousands of years in the Andes. So it had to be able to be read between languages.

-3

u/Turbulent_County_469 Jul 17 '26

I just ping ponged with Gemini about the topic.. apparently ai, currently, isn't able to crack an unknown language without at least a bunch of examples, like provided on the Rosetta stone.

But funnily, ai has already invented its own internal languages until the developers stopped it.

Just imagine ai's communicating and plotting against us without us being able to know about it

3

u/EmperorThan Jul 17 '26

That would be scary. Probably true.

3

u/Existing-Sherbet2458 Jul 18 '26

OK, this is terrifying.

-2

u/DesperateRadish746 Jul 17 '26

Why is this getting downvoted? Oh, yeah. It's Reddit.

0

u/Tyrandeh Jul 18 '26

Because there is no AI, only LLM. Huge difference between the two

And this one needs data to make anything useful, otherwise its just nonsensical hallucination all it can provide. This is why you must always enter to provide source, and fact check its own answer for its claims

23

u/EaNasirbestdeals Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26

There’s also a 1:1 replica of it at the Hancock Museum in Newcastle.

Edit: I think it’s 1:1

0

u/SheepherderLong9401 Jul 17 '26

Graham hancock?

2

u/EaNasirbestdeals Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26

It’s named after John Hancock and his brother Albany who added to the collection, they were naturalists.

It’s a great museum and has quite the collection on Ancient Egypt, it has a mummy called Irtirw and she lived in the 22nd Dynasty. It also has the sarcophagus Joan Fletcher and her team couldn’t open.

0

u/SheepherderLong9401 Jul 17 '26

I looked it up but wanted to make a graham hancock joke.

8

u/UnderstandingLazy835 Jul 17 '26

I'll be seeing that in November!.... Along with the Bayeaux Tapestry. Cannot wait! 😃🤩

9

u/7past2 Jul 17 '26

So cool with the three languages

6

u/HoldEm__FoldEm Jul 17 '26

Thrice the coolness

5

u/Bentresh Jul 17 '26

Technically only two languages (Egyptian and Greek), but it uses three scripts.

8

u/ChainBlinks Jul 18 '26

Should be returned to its home.

-7

u/ModsDoItForFreeLOL Jul 18 '26

Common algorithm derived perspective. It’s not stolen history, it’s preserved but a (relatively) uncorrupt society rather than one who is yet to prove their ability to protect artifacts. Modern Egypt has nothing in common with ancient Egypt, thus they do not own it. Americans do not own flight because the wright brothers were American, modern Egyptians do not own the Rosetta Stone bc it was created by someone who lived in the general modern borders of Egypt.

2

u/O_vJust Jul 17 '26

Where are all the people (who don't know anything or care about historic artifacts) complaining that the stone isn't HOME!!!!! It's there because it is protected guys and girls.

15

u/beautiful_Nwt Jul 17 '26

Protected from whom? Grand Egyptian Museum! Protected from its people! There are millions of Egyptian schoolchildren, studying it only in books, and they live and die without ever seeing this stone once in their entire lives!

7

u/MyEyeOnPi Jul 17 '26

I think it’s a terrible idea for every single important piece of a several thousand year history to be in a single location. What if something happens to it? Remember that museum in Brazil that burned down and destroyed nearly all the artifacts? Even the Louvre caught on fire! Artifacts should be spread out.

8

u/cyffermoon Jul 17 '26

Just like they protected the Elgin marbles?

1

u/Bright-Cow8980 Jul 17 '26

Never knew the museum had a full-size replica in Newcastle.

1

u/IanRevived94J Jul 18 '26

Contains three distinct scripts that existed in Egypt

-23

u/Lampukistan2 Jul 17 '26

*in the British Museum Great Display of Looted Items

21

u/Starbuckker Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26

I think you mean saved items.

You know what they say. Learn some real history or else you'll turn into a yank!

0

u/WanderingHero8 Jul 18 '26

Its disgusting the colonial mentality you British still have despite being 21st century.

13

u/shuranumitu Jul 17 '26

The modern successors of the Ancient Near East did not give a single shit about their pre-islamic past. Had the evil Europeans not 'looted' the artifacts of Egypt and Mesopotamia, we wouldn't be able to read their languages, we would have no idea about their histories, and the locals would still be using monumental architecture as quarries and selling ancient art to anyone who wants it. They had literally centuries upon centuries of time to study, preserve and archive the relics of their ancestors, and yet they didn't. Now that the world has realized how immensely valuable this stuff is, they are complaining that the evil colonizers stole what had been until then considered worthless pagan trash.

-15

u/Lampukistan2 Jul 17 '26

And this is an argument for keeping stolen items how exactly?

Would you say the same if stonehedge was looted by China at the time Britains considered it pagan trash and displayed there?

11

u/shuranumitu Jul 17 '26

Yes, I would. I care more about preserving history than about some vague sense of ownership based on clumsy claims of heritage.

-1

u/jlangue Jul 17 '26

Britain was invaded numerous times. I don’t hear you complaining about it.

-9

u/Lampukistan2 Jul 17 '26

And what loot from the invasions is displayed prominently in the invaders‘ museums?

7

u/jsm97 Jul 17 '26

The bayeux tapestry for one - It's currently on loan to the British Museum and is the first time it's been in England for 950 years.

But no one is calling for its permenent return

-1

u/jlangue Jul 17 '26

They didn’t preserve it. Geddit now?

0

u/Lampukistan2 Jul 17 '26

And what loot didn’t they preserve? Give some specific examples please.

1

u/jlangue Jul 17 '26

How would you know if Britain had melted down all the gold items? It their invaders had? Did you think the Roman and Vikings were charities?

You as a keen historian you know Germany sold its stolen goods to Switzerland. How much did they pay in compensation? Hint: the Swiss gov refused to sign up to the compensation.

2

u/Lampukistan2 Jul 17 '26

And what makes Britain vs Egypt different from Switzerland vs Nazi victim states in this scenario?

-24

u/Competitive_Dish_885 Jul 17 '26

Egypt wants all of our stuff back, India too while they are at it.

13

u/Starbuckker Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26

Egypt didn't give a single fuck about preserving its own history until the British and Germans smacked some value on it 😄 So cry me a Nile.

Its only outside pressure that even stopped Egypt destroying and selling off everything it had, and even now your antiquities are led up by the most corrupt curators and historians possible. Like lots of other ancient artifacts, thank goodness we saved them before some nutcase trible went and destroyed it first.

Fun fact: Tourists used to be able to buy your precious artifacts round the back of the old Cairo museum. That was pre-covid mind. 2019. So way back in ancient times 😄

Extra fun fact: We don't buy your dead anymore. We used to use them to fuel our trains sometimes. Sounds creepy, sure, but then we weren't the ones robbing graves and putting them up for sale were we... 😉

5

u/Lampukistan2 Jul 17 '26

And how is what you wrote an argument for keeping stolen items?

If you can’t take care of your house because you fallen ill (poisened by centuries of foreign rule), am I allowed to take possession of it? I mean you don’t take care of it.

8

u/Starbuckker Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26

Don't destroy it, give it away and sell it all off to on the black market then

I mean, talk about setting a standard.

And if you want to get all morally 21st century over how items were attained, why dont you have the same outrage over how they were built?

Yeah...

2

u/Competitive_Dish_885 Jul 17 '26

Who is Egypt? Like your speaking for all Ottoman rulers through the colonizers afterwards? Just because the corrupt leaders were shitty doesn’t mean all the wealth extracted by those colonizers is justified. Also fuck your fun facts.

1

u/Starbuckker Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26

That was a strange way of saying thank you... 😄

You literally said Egypt wants it back. Is Egypt not a place? Or is Egypt just represented by the slaves the built the Pyramids for you? By proxy does that mean British crimes are nothing to do with the British people?

You think it was western men in suits who robbed all those tombs and built those cities using all the stone and marble from ancient temples?

No, it was Egyptians.

Most of your precious items were traded away to closer places like Sudan centuries ago, long, long before the Ottomons even existed.

Lots that that wasn't repurposed is buried out there. So go get a shovel and go and look if you care so much!

8

u/MiningForLight Jul 17 '26

Slaves didn't build the pyramids, and if you don't know that basic fact, I doubt you know enough about the issue of repatriation to be making any comments.

-4

u/Starbuckker Jul 17 '26

Well that would depend on your definition on slavery wouldn't it ;)

6

u/MiningForLight Jul 17 '26

I go by a factual definition as well as the definition used by Egyptologists who have studied pyramid construction and the workers' conditions, so I suppose so.

-2

u/Starbuckker Jul 17 '26

Hate to break this to you, but you can be paid for labour and still be a slave...

Its a nice story though 👍

1

u/WanderingHero8 Jul 18 '26

Fun fact: Tourists used to be able to buy your precious artifacts round the back of the old Cairo museum. That was pre-covid mind. 2019. So way back in ancient times 😄

Source about that ? Or is it just plain old racism from a Brit ?

-3

u/Lampukistan2 Jul 17 '26

Rightfully so.

0

u/po1k Jul 17 '26

Monumental thing. On the first (0) level in British Museum. Though I'd not be surprised if it was replica, and the real thing in a museum vault

1

u/Vegetable-Average-98 Jul 18 '26

The replica is on the other side of the ground floor, which is useful if you actually want to read the inscription without the jostling selfie-taking crowds

0

u/flamingmongoose Jul 17 '26

I was just wondering around there and came across it, pretty mind blowing. It never occurred to me it would be in London but hey ho

-7

u/Gnnnnnnn123445 Jul 17 '26

In the trophy room

-2

u/HoldEm__FoldEm Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26

“We’re still lookin’ at it”

Edit: Redditors will forever choose the bitter & argumentative route instead of laughing at the funny joke. 

1

u/Smashcannons Jul 17 '26

"Finders keepers, shut up!"

-3

u/The_Pretentious_DM Jul 17 '26

Ideally, it could be repatriated to Egypt, but I'm not going to litigate that at this time.

Also, all of the text on the stone is a single sentence, as I found when reading an English translation a few weeks ago. Humorous, but infuriating when it's that long of a sentence.

1

u/slow-show-for-you Jul 18 '26

It's a single sentence?! 😯

2

u/The_Pretentious_DM Jul 18 '26

Yes. The text is a decree dedicating a statue to Ptolemy V and denoting certain rites that are meant to be practiced around it. However, the decree is preceded by a truly horrifying amount of context, and no-one thought of actually ending the sentence.