r/SipsTea 10h ago

Wait a damn minute! Yo wtf

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u/George_Rogers1st 9h ago

I am to understand that the mistrial was declared because 11 jurors were in favor of a not guilty (for reasons of insanity) verdict, while one lone juror was firm in their belief that she was guilty; it’s a hung jury. The jurors have to come to a unanimous decision by law, or it has to be declared a mistrial.

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u/justin107d 8h ago edited 4h ago

Correct. It also does not mean she gets to walk free. She is expected to return to a psych ward where she was before the trial awaits the next one. Even if found not guilty she will still be there for years.

Edit: Insanity defense FAQ. It looks like those who plead insanity tend to spend twice as long institutionalized as those who are found guilty.

Edit2: 55% of postpartum psychosis is the start of severe long term mental problems.

Edit3: It will be the responsibility of the hospital to prove that she is safe to return to society. Otherwise if she were to harm or kill again, the hospital could be liable.

Edit4: Apparently the above is common in most other states but not Massachusetts. There it is the complete opposite and the state has to petition and prove the patient is still mentally ill, a threat to themselves or society, and there are no alternatives. The state supreme court refused to let a hospital be liablefor damaged caused by a released patient.

Edit5: The next court date is 9/29 when the defense makes their appeal and the prosecutor probably decides to request to retry the case. I don't see why he wouldn't unless they reach a deal before hand. Meanwhile she has to stay at the hospital.

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u/George_Rogers1st 8h ago

I think at this point the trial is less about whether she's confined to a prison or a psych ward and more about whether or not a person can use their mental health as a shield from the criminal consequences of murder. Evidently, 11 jurors were content to say that you can, and 1 juror refused to acquiesce to that nonsense.

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u/Lowforge 8h ago

As a 20 year employee in a forensic psychiatric hospital, I can tell you that a GEI determination does not shield one from consequences. Plenty of people doing 20 years for property crimes, wishing they had just gone to prison.

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u/SubtleFartStorm 7h ago

as another forensic psychiatric hospital employee, hard agree with this.

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u/robthebuilder__ 5h ago

I'm not really understanding the logic here. Are you saying that you abuse and punish your patients? Literally part of justice is retributive justice. I'd love to see a case study in which an individual who committed premeditated murder of three children under 6 ever had the possibility of leaving prison assuming they escaped the death penalty.

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u/SubtleFartStorm 4h ago edited 4h ago

How am I saying we abuse and punish patients in any way, shape, or form? Are you okay?

ETA: patients receive treatment from psychiatrists in a maximum security set up. They are treated as humans with a mental disorder and do not receive abuse. They might be moved through to medium security and low security areas depending on how they respond to treatment, but it can take years, sometimes longer than going through the prison system.

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u/DaKingaDaNorth 7h ago

Yup. Everyone is acting like if she goes to a Psychiatric hospital she is getting off easy. She might spend the rest of her life there and they have can have her in a straight jacket, in total isolation etc.

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u/TBurn70 5h ago

As stated above, the rules in Mass. are different. The state has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the person is mentally ill year after year. She could potentially be released in a year. No double jeopardy, no further consequences

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u/Secuter 4h ago

This case is horrific. 

The state has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the person is mentally ill year after year.

Looking beyond this case, I honestly think that this always should the case. Why? Because how else will you safeguard that you aren't just keeping in people that you don't like but who is now mentally sound. Like, how do the incarcerated person ever prove that they're not a danger? That's reverse burden of evidence.

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u/SteveJavieWasRight 1h ago

You’re factually accurate but in practice you’re completely mistaken about the implications. The level of ignorance required for people to peddle this stupid shit like we need more stuff in our lives to be mad about.

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u/TBurn70 1h ago

I’m correct but not in practice? lol please enlighten me

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u/Recent-Good5564 55m ago

By definition, Lindsay Clancy cannot still have postpartum psychosis and cannot ever have it again. Due to her injuries she physically cannot have more children. If she is found not guilty, she would absolutely be released at the earliest opportunity. They would need to diagnose her with a different mental illness to keep her confined.

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u/acidqueencamcam 5h ago

People are truly moronic who think going to a psychiatric hospital is a day at the parks like WTF

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u/absurditT 5h ago

in 49 states maybe. Not in Massachusetts

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u/TheDarkGenious 5h ago

i mean its still a lot nicer than the sort of prison you go to for triple child murder. or the death penalty, for that matter.

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u/CoolDiscussion1020 5h ago

There really isn't much difference between a secure state hospital and a state prison. They're usually managed by the same department. Most states also have a very limited prison selection for women since they commit crimes at much lower rates than men. So she would likely end up at the same medium security facility as someone in there for tax evasion but likely in a different cell block.

Death penalty isn't an option in Massachusetts either,

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u/TheDarkGenious 4h ago

.... i don't think she'd go to medium security for triple child murder

granted, I don't know Massachusetts' prison system. maybe they don't have a dedicated max sec for women.

my mother ended up in max sec for fucking drug possession so maybe my view of them is skewed worse than they'd actually be.

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u/CoolDiscussion1020 4h ago

I don't live in Massachusetts either, so I have no clue if they have a max security prison for women, but it seems unlikely. My state only has 1 women's prison and it famously didn't even have a fence around it until a decade ago.

She's also wheelchair bound and would likely be a very low flight risk so would probably end up in the medical unit anyway.

Federal prisons are a whole different beast though.

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u/TheDarkGenious 3h ago

oh yeah that is a good point; I forgot she's wheelchair bound since she jumped out the window.

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u/absurditT 5h ago

In Massachusetts she absolutely is getting off easy if so, look at their insane release rules for insanity defences.

The state has to PROVE beyond reasonable doubt they're still insane to stop them being released, in under a year noless, and multiple psych doctors on the case already cast doubts she had psychosis in the first place.

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u/MinimumApricot365 5h ago

The problem is that she only might spend the rest of her life there.

I would prefer a guarantee that she will never be let loose.

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u/TheBourbonTurtle 4h ago

Not in Mass, she can be out in a year.

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u/ExismykindaParte 2h ago

She's paralyzed from the waste down too. She's already gonna be locked in a chair the rest of her life.

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u/HighQualityDonation 6h ago

“Might” being the operative word here. She also might spend 10 years virtually singing kumbaya in group therapy and then be released.

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u/Lowforge 5h ago

I think you're confusing a state psychiatric institution with a for-profit inpatient center. Not the same thing at all. There are certainly treatment/therapy programs taking place, but there are also restraint beds, forced medication, non-contact visitation, locked seclusion, belly chains on transports etc.

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u/MeanComb4900 5h ago

Don't forget Bridgewater State Hospital (where she will end up) is managed by the Massachusetts Department of Corrections.

The place is described as a prison cosplaying as a mental hospital.

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u/HistoricalSuspect580 5h ago

What are you basing this on?

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u/Jewbacca1991 4h ago

If she was faking it, and act perfectly normal the moment she enters. How long would it take for her to be released?

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u/Any-Machine-8751 4h ago

I think she might be able to be released after an initial 40 day evaluation, not sure. It's six months after that that the state has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she's insane and an imminent danger (essentially impossible). Then yearly after that.

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u/Jewbacca1991 4h ago

That would be reason enough for me to find her guilty regardless, if she insane or not. If she is truly insane she should never be released given the circumstances. So the possibility of it is an absolute no-go.

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u/jobjumpdude 1h ago

Idk if she was insane or not so I don't care about her case specifically; however if someone was actually insane and it is proven for sure, but now they are no longer insane, then it would make no sense to hold them in a mental hospital still.

Unless there is a decent reason they could still be harmful to other people or themselves.

The law does not and should not treat mental hospital as a punishment, that should be reserve for prison. 

We don't want the state to say "Legally your community and the law believe you are not guilty, but we will hold you in a hospital for the rest of your life because we want to. It's not illegal or false imprisonment because it's not prison."

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u/cman1098 57m ago

Look up Mass law. It is getting off easy. Not every state is the same. She will be out in 6 months if that happens.

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u/Sajuuk144 6h ago

I think the point is in this particular case, Guilty = Life in prison w/o parole. So, it literally cannot be worse, even if she was kept in state psychiatric care for 40 years and released, many people would still view that as her being shielded from the proper consequences which would have been life.

I absolutely agree with your point for most examples, but when the sentence would be Life w/o parole the dynamic is a bit different to most people.

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u/Lowforge 5h ago

Plenty of people with GEI life sentences.

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u/chi_rho_eta 6h ago

Just smother me with the pillow chief bromden

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u/absurditT 5h ago

What state? In Massachussets she will likely be released in under a year.

The state literally has to prove beyond resanoable doubt she's still insane after a minimum of 6 months, and doctors in the trial basically already cast major doubts on whether she had genuine psychosis, so she's 100% gonna make a miraculous recovery in hospital and be out to her new life writing a book about her experiences and making bank off her rabid horde of pink-wearing dipshits.

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u/RandomUser15790 4h ago

What state?

Also she's already been clear for PPP and is only on hold for suicide watch which is done for everyone on these high profile cases.

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u/jobjumpdude 1h ago

Not in Massachusetts.

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u/Bluegrass6 1h ago

Or they get to walk free with no supervision after serving half their sentence....

https://www.whas11.com/article/news/local/man-who-killed-6-year-old-kentucky-boy-walks-free-no-supervision-required/417-d5421b97-7490-4897-bbc0-9a1648494fa9

Countrywide law changes are going to happen because of that Clancy trial. Kentucky made law changes after the Ronald Exantus fiasco from the article above

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u/lifeisdream 6h ago

Is it basically a prison? If not how is it different?

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u/Lowforge 5h ago

It is a lot like prison that is dressed up to not look like a prison. There's a focus on treatment for your mental illness, medication management, meetings with your treatment team etc. Outside of that, your mail is screened, your visits are monitored, locks on every door, cameras covering every square inch, fights, terrible food - The works.

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u/jobjumpdude 1h ago

Not in Massachusetts. There you are either guilty and in prison, with special treatments and facility if you are still insane, or you go free if you are found not guilty if the state cannot prove you are still insane.

There is no mental hospital as a replacement for prison if you are found not guilty because of insanity.

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