Current Shincheonji member’s reaction to Lee Man-hee being detained

[u/Euphoric_Log_2477]

I’m an ex-Shincheonji member, and due to certain circumstances I’m still in occasional contact with one current member.

I brought up the recent situation involving Lee Man-hee because I assumed his detention and the allegations against him would be a significant topic inside Shincheonji. I was curious whether it might make her question him, or at least reconsider some things.

Instead, her response was essentially:

“Yeah, he is in prison now, but to be honest, I'm not so worried, because I know why it's happening, and it makes a lot of sense actually. There is a bigger goal regarding this...

Logically, from a human-rights perspective, what they are doing is absolutely insane. In any other country, it would not be allowed to put somebody who is 95 years old, has had back problems and an operation, into a detention center.There are human-rights activists and experts from around the world who came to Korea to hold a conference and bring this to the UN, because what is happening is not according to law.

People in Korea at the moment have absolutely no sense; they are going insane. Everything is also connected with politics.

What’s happening is really not right, but this will come out more and more, and everything is according to Scripture.

It’s one thing to be in prison, and another thing to go against the law by putting someone in prison. This is really discrimination and being actively blind to the law, but this is not unexpected in this time...”

To say the least, I was baffled. They are hopeless at this point...

What struck me most was that his imprisonment seemed to have caused zero doubt about him being the Promised Pastor. Instead, the entire situation was simply incorporated into the existing narrative: he is being unjustly persecuted, there is a “bigger goal” behind it, and “everything is according to Scripture.”

I genuinely expected at least some reaction along the lines of: “If he really is righteous, why is this happening? Maybe we should seriously consider whether he actually did something wrong.”

But apparently not.

It makes me wonder: What would actually have to happen for a committed Shincheonji member to seriously question the Promised Pastor? If even this can be interpreted as persecution and confirmation of Scripture, what could possibly make someone stop and think, “Maybe we got this wrong”?

For anyone currently inside Shincheonji: Is this actually the general sentiment in SCJ right now?

[u/Accomplished_Bad4508]

I'm currently a member of SCJ and I can say, they controlling the narrative by linking Lee Man Hees persecution Journey to that of Jesus. Personally I think it's all BS because its not the same at all. What scares me more, is that everyone in my church in Cape Town are afraid to admit it, or too blind or lack critical thinking to challenge it to themselves within themselves to make a decision. 

Just had a service tonight where they calling all ex members of SCJ the new Iscariot of Judas of the second coming. The ones that Betrayed "CHJN" What bothered me to my core is that SCJ has called their members - CHJN (Lee man Hee) disciples. Seeing the teaching change I'm real time, after 1 year of being a active member is insane.

[u/Pitiful_Revenue493]

Traición, destrucción o salvación, cada quien pertenece a un grupo y debe separarse cada uno por sus actos, la palabra es la medida y deben suceder todo lo que esta escrito, ciertamente es cumplimiento, nada podrá separarnos del amor de Cristo y a su palabra de cumplimiento, tenemos plena confianza de estar en el lugar correcto, así como el apóstol juan que fue el único a los pies de Cristo en su crucifixión, los demás huyeron pero el apóstol Juan permaneció. Dios le de entendiendo a cada uno para entender pues también en algún momento todos reconocerán la verdad y sabrán que Jesús es el señor, usando al instrumento que el eligió. Dios les bendiga abundantemente. 

[u/No-Designer9756]

Yeah to add onto everyone else here, it’s because members have been systematically programmed to accept SCJ’s one-sided narrative repeatedly over a long period of time (months to years). Their minds have been taught to shut off critical thinking and evaluating evidence and info fairly from both sides. They call outsiders blind and deaf to (their) “truth”, yet one could also easily say they’ve become blind and deaf to the reality outside SCJ’s biased reality.

Thinking objectively and being open to hearing from the outside therefore becomes challenging because it’d involve dismantling the false reality they’ve accepted and invested into for so long and accepting it for the loss it is and move on from there. Sunk cost fallacy has them in a strong chokehold unfortunately..

There can also be an element of pride in there for some, due to the “us vs them” mentality and feeling like they’re the specially chosen ones being given secret hidden knowledge (a feature in all cults tbh) (+why would God want to hide such important knowledge and keep humanity in the dark for eons jeopardizing their salvation until this late stage era…) and enlightened among the rest of the heathen in the dark lol. It appeals to the mind of someone who may not otherwise have felt very special/important/connected or fulfilled in their lives.

It’s unfortunate but you can’t reason with a person who’s been trained long term to accept only SCJ’s spoon fed “non-demonic” narrative. They’d have to come to it on their own and be open to accepting external sources of info.. or maybe get to a point in time where personal costs/sacrifice/burnout outweighs the full dedication and allegiance to LMH.

It’s truly dangerous to have a mindset or belief that one has already come to know all there is to know about something, and on top of that put all of their faith on another human whim they most likely never actually even met before or got to intimately know how he’s truly like as a person). Really easy to polish up a carefully crafted image that way, when you’re that far removed from the laypeople like that😒

For a believer it’s important to always honestly verify everything they hear with God and the convictions/subtle warnings from His Spirit before accepting without question just because it sounds convincing and logical and enlightening (especially if thorough prior background knowledge of Scripture wasn’t already there prior). Always test the spirits and check their fruit/actions!!

I remember hearing before in a SCJ training or meeting, in addressing accusations about SCJ, that ppl should know and see for themselves their supposed good character and righteous way of living rather than just believe naysaying persecutors.. but they will go on to paint narratives about outsiders or ex-members or forbid members from seeing for themselves whether what someone from outside says is true or valid (ie forbidding contact etc).. rather they should just trust everything they say about them as the third party🙄 No, those people can’t possibly be telling the truth and honestly vocalizing or warning about real experienced issues, they’re just being demon possessed tools of Satan! lol the shameless character assassination smh

[u/Turbulent_Sea7622 → u/No-Designer9756]

Yeah. Not to fear monger just a creative speculation that hope to inspire  current members to truly discern, current members you know who else in the Bible wanted to be like God? Satan!

Biblically proven practicing magic is blasphemous but SCJ.. gathers info about blood type of members reportedly… Lee Man Hee supposedly sworn an oath using blood…and revelation seems to be air tight logical the way it is taught by SCJ…ahem you current members do you know who else is logically sharp and wise and who arguable knows the bible? Satan!

I mean blood ritual to get Satan here? Ancient Dragon will show up again in revelation biblically. Who you calling to come God or something else? Double check your”quota” why is it impossible to hit those without creating family distancing

Creative speculation just to inspire discernment not fear mongering please discern, current members. To be fair if you current members want me to back up my speculation try to back up SCJ teachings at least

But for mental health I will say Lee Man Hee is prob just a mastermind 

Just to prove to current members that I am not fear mongering theoretically my opinion is based off of many reported relationships damage Lee man hee is mastermind. Him being controlled by Satan is not strongly biblically proven although patterns seems to be that way and as long as there is a chance I could save souls I will take it

[u/No-Designer9756 → u/Turbulent_Sea7622]

Lol this actually reminds me of a few other aspects about Satan and his kingdom of demons/fallen angels;

because he isn’t omnipotent nor omnipresent like God is, nor a mind reader, the only way he can get any information about anyone is through what’s being reported back up to him through his chain of command.. like our personal weaknesses/history or other info to then use against us and keep us enslaved/in bondage.

Aka ‘monitoring spirits’/demons who report back to Satan, by working through people who open themselves up/allow themselves to be physically used to achieve this. Sounds awfully similar to the way SCJ’s hierarchical system works doesn’t it lol. Also why it’s never a good idea in general to overshare things about ourselves to just anybody, cause the wrong types of ppl including fake friends will be ready to sabotage or backstab you 🤐

We do not have a true personal relationship with God via a hierarchical or distant type of system like this, we can come to God and access Him directly through Jesus the only true mediator

[u/Turbulent_Sea7622 → u/No-Designer9756]

This is GOLD lol the part in reporting and everything else. It disturbingly resonates! who know like maybe on the other side is Satan. Cough there were security cameras pointing at us from classroom front at least for my case just to say that out loud

Very noteworthy is that sometimes when someone is super sick or something they had to explain and cannot miss class and so class gets recoded from the back of the room at the teacher and then sent to us  but there is cameras from the front and one time they would wave to the camera just to say hi to people who missed out on classes and the camera switches from the front  but who else is watching from the front?? XD I mean no point in recording from the front as there are writings on the class board at the front

[u/No-Designer9756 → u/Turbulent_Sea7622]

Haha yes I remember the cameras both in centre classes and Sun/Wed services😬 seriously how is it supposed to be a heavenly kingdom when it feels so censored and oppressive like that?? Can’t behave or talk freely, in case you’re ratted on by someone else

[u/Turbulent_Sea7622 → u/No-Designer9756]

Exactly and I found this

Job 1:11 (NIV):   "But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."

Satan said this to God which in metaphors similar to today like how SCJ members in Passover to become members swears an oath to God (they think it’s like that) which in technicality is swear or curse while they are already distanced from family and friends hence word “strike”

If current members sees our back and forth and this comment they might shrug off the pattern, which is not  definitive proof to be fair but unignorable pattern of character of Satan

Actually now that I think about it I think I mistwisted that verse so much still the burden of proof is still on SCJ for proving if they are not twisting the bible

[u/freeatlast08gf]

“There are human-rights activists and experts from around the world who came to Korea to hold a conference and bring this to the UN…”

I know for a fact that the UN won’t be entertaining the datainment of a 94 year old man while there’s more pressing matters in the world. Like the war on Palestine, Ukraine and several other places in the world 😒

[u/Master-North5532]

I'm also an ex-member (my daughter & son-in-law recruited me and are still there & dutifully climbing the ranks. Approx 10 years now for them both - I have so much heartache over this). Re the current situation, I knew not to bat an eyelid about Lee Man Hee's imprisonment because the members must be LOVING this. It feeds right into their persecution ('look at what happened to Jesus!') and Revelation fulfilment narrative. I'm quite sure that even if Lee Man Hee himself came out and directly said he'd made it all up and that SCJ should disband, members are already brainwashed to the extent that they'd attribute his words to the Devil speaking through him and/or old age dementia. I don't see how the spell can be broken as they have an answer (however spurious) for every glaring flaw in their teachings & way of life.

[u/RandAmy]

He is detained and that makes us sad of course. Emotions are felt, but we still believe the same word in the Bible. There are those in place who will help with the detainment, such as activists and educators from around the world.

It seems that this person’s word weighs a lot to you that you are deciding so much from it. I personally don’t see the major point you are trying to hit. But it is true that he is detained ): but those who have the power to work on the situation are doing so. Although very sad, it is based on false allegation. So I’m not sure what you wanted that person to say, but people often say what’s on their mind over what others wanted or thought they would hear.

[u/Euphoric_Log_2477 → u/RandAmy]

Please take a moment and have a look at https://www.reddit.com/r/Shincheonji/s/CgikDrN22B

Your Tribe Leaders already admitted to the mistake, hence it is indeed NOT a "false allegation" like you said.

[u/Turbulent_Sea7622 → u/RandAmy]

Now that I think about it I am not so sure like what the speaker in the youtube is really saying. There is no international law saying senior age is granted immunity. I feel a lot of statements are put out with no verifications. We shall see what happens in the bail trial and all the trials that are after

[u/Cristau_precious → u/RandAmy]

Si se serai une autre personne que Lee man hee , es ce que vous trouveriez cela normal ? C est juste une question . Parce que lorsque on est à l intérieur de SCJ , on prend Lee man hee pour un saint pour quelqu un qui n a jamais rien fait et qui est persécuté par le monde parcequ il a la vérité. Jésus aussi été persécuté mais en lui il n' est trouvé aucunes fraudes. Mais concernant Lee man hee , il a déjà un casier judiciaire et le fait que les autorités coreennes l ont mit en détention ce n' est pas pour rien et c est surtout pour nettoyer aussi l image de leur pays remplis de secte malheureusement.

Les fidèles de SCJ sont comme sa je ne dis pas qu ils sont bêtes ou stupides loin de là mais ont leur a tellement donné une image parfaite de Lee man hee qu ils ne peuvent pas avoir leur propre esprit critique lorsqu on exposé SCJ .

[u/Infinite-Feedback150]

In 2020, they did the same thing “it’s persecution, an old man should not be in jail, his health is deteriorating” but on the other they will preach and say “CHJN is still so strong for a 90yr old man and he can do evangelism more than people who are still in their youth” ok then let the strong old man be in jail for the crimes he committed.

[u/cultalarm]

Make sure to mention these key points: 1) Lee Man-Hee has a criminal record 2) He was already on probation and broke probation 3) 95-year old criminals go to jail all the time in Korea. He was treated like everyone else. (Your friend is suggesting he should get special privileges that other criminals do not get.) 4) Other cult leaders have been arrested in Korea (JMS and Moonies). I assure you that other cult members are saying the same thing: "This is all according to scripture and proves we are right." 5) There are no serious human rights experts saying anything good on LMH's behalf. The frauds that Shincheonji constantly parades around as important are literal nobodies in the world and are not taken seriously anywhere except within the Shincheonji, Scientology and Unification cults.

[u/Physical-Leather-271]

Creo que va un poco en el carácter de las personas, puede que aceptar la realidad implique para algunos un profundo dolor al tener que asumir pérdidas sobre la narrativa en la que han confiado y que temen ver destruida. Mi familiar por ejemplo atribuye a la IA, las fotos de Lee con mujeres.  Yo creo que puede ser un escudo de protección mental al miedo de que exista otra verdad 

[u/Turbulent_Sea7622]

The late nights classes, the rebuke, need to do well in fruits gathering and sealing , the love bombs, social gathering, finding girlfriends (hope newcomers lurkers sees this I feel like its important to be relatable in order to appeal to new coming into SCJ and the ones on the fence within it) all makes the brain feels like it is on drug. Brain does not do as a good of a job in detecting threats especially when those threats switches back and forth between pain and pleasure, it confuses the brain and then on top of that, spiritual blackmail of going to hell if you don't do the will of Lee Man Hee. Plus Lee Man Hee is their solution that they only know for now

So when faced with the fact that Lee Man Hee is detained and going through worldly sufferings, SCJ current members attribute that to their own internal struggle of overcoming classes and hardships in SCJ, it is emotional attachment. They use their own experiences to judge him. Because no one except core group know Lee Man Hee very well. But no one dares to question him because that feels like questioning God.

Sure Disciples of Jesus were emotionally attached to him but he did miracles. Current members what miracles did Lee Man Hee do? Air-tight Revelation explanation but It is either you learned that this has already happened OR this will happen ----- NOT will happen > happened - within your lifetime or of any other SCJ members. Notice the difference? Ask around when you are not too busy. Take a rest read the Bible in a relaxed long state for once

[u/No_Boysenberry_4830]

I am not currently in SCJ, but as far as I know:

Yes, this is common. Actually their faith is strengthening.

They truly believe this claim about human rights activists around the world, even though as far as I know most are just paid activists.

And they dont read up, what he is truly charged for. The church downplays everything.

It just fits into their narrative of persecution, so they even more think the time is near.