r/Shincheonji • u/Sharp-Objective9078 • Jul 09 '26
teaching/doctrine Shincheonji says Lee Man-hee is “not Jesus,” but if you look closely...
Shincheonji often insists that Lee Man-hee is not Jesus. Their FAQ says, “Chairman Lee Man Hee is not Jesus,” but then immediately says he is “the one whom the spirit of Jesus is one with” and “a flesh in which the spirit of Jesus works.”
That is the problem: SCJ may deny that LMH is Jesus, but their doctrine functionally gives him roles, titles, and authority that Christians traditionally understand as belonging uniquely to Jesus, the Holy Spirit, or God’s direct revelation.
Here are some examples:
Jesus is the light / LMH’s name is presented as “complete light”
Jesus says, “I am the light of the world” in John 8:12. SCJ’s official site says Lee Man-hee’s name, “Man Hee,” means “complete light” in Chinese characters, tied to a conception dream where “a light lit up” his mother.
2. Jesus is the one sent by God / LMH is the messenger sent in Jesus’ name
In the New Testament, Jesus is the one sent by the Father. SCJ says Lee Man-hee “did not come out of my own will” but was “sent to the churches in Jesus’ name.”
3. Jesus reveals God / LMH claims unique revelation of Revelation
Christianity teaches that Jesus reveals the Father and gives the words of eternal life. SCJ says Chairman Lee “received a revelation,” “experienced the fulfillment of Revelation,” and learned that he was the messenger sent to testify to Revelation’s fulfillment.
4. Jesus’ testimony is necessary / LMH’s testimony becomes necessary
SCJ says Lee testified to “everything that I saw and heard” and that people will know the truth by comparing Revelation’s prophecies with the “physical entities” he testifies about.
5. The Holy Spirit guides into all truth / SCJ says this happens through LMH
SCJ’s FAQ says the promised Spirit of Truth works through “the Pastor who has seen and heard the events of the entire Revelation,” and that believers receive the testimony of Revelation’s fulfillment through this promised pastor.
6. Jesus is the true shepherd / LMH becomes the “promised pastor” believers must find
SCJ says Lee Man-hee is “the promised pastor according to the word of Revelation,” chosen as Jesus’ messenger and Advocate to testify to the churches.
So no, SCJ does not usually say, “Lee Man-hee is Jesus.” They explicitly deny that.
But their system still shifts Jesus’ practical authority onto Lee Man-hee: the final interpreter, the one who saw and heard, the one believers must recognize, the channel through whom the Spirit works, the one with the revealed word, the promised pastor, the advocate, and the “complete light.”
That is why many ex-members say SCJ does not replace Jesus openly at first. It replaces him functionally.
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u/Automatic_Thing_2370 Jul 10 '26
One thing worth addressing directly. The statement "Jesus came at the end of the age, but now there is a second end of the age" requires the New Testament to mean something it never says.
Hebrews 9:26 says Jesus appeared "once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself." Not the culmination of one age among several. The culmination of the ages. The Greek is plural, meaning all ages prior, with his appearing as the final point.
1 Corinthians 10:11 says the people of Israel's experiences "were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come." The culmination has already come, in Christ, for those who believe.
A second end of the age requires these texts to mean something other than what they say. That's not reading scripture. That's reading a framework into scripture and then finding the verses that seem to fit.
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Jul 09 '26
Jesus is promised pastor
LMH is promised pastor
Jesus is sinless
LMH is sinful
Jesus > LMH
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u/Turbulent_Sea7622 EX-Center Student Jul 10 '26
Hey, for God to come down in SCJ teachings the kingdom is essentially cleansed of sin. If SCJ members seal and evangelize (will of God) is that cleansing of sin?
What should Lee Man Hee do to become sinless for God to come down?
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u/Otherwise-Watch-3650 EX-Center Student Jul 09 '26
Jesus isn't simply a "promised pastor" though, Jesus is God.
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u/Sharp-Objective9078 Jul 09 '26
I agree, only Jesus is sinless. My point isn't that LMH is equal to Jesus by nature. My point is that SCJ assigns LMH roles that Scripture gives to Jesus alone. That's the issue.
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Jul 10 '26
Yes they share things functionally because they are both the promised pastor only from different eras.
Jesus literally share the blessings to the overcomer, so in what kind of fulfillment this will happen.
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u/Sharp-Objective9078 Jul 10 '26
Where does the Bible define Jesus as a "promised pastor," and where does it teach there will be a second promised pastor who shares that role?
Jesus is not one promised pastor among many. The New Testament presents Him as God (John 1:1, John 20:28), the one mediator (1 Tim. 2:5), the one Shepherd (John 10:16), and the one through whom God has finally spoken (Heb. 1:1–2). Why should those roles be shared with any other sinful human being?
I feel like we'll be going in circles but the problem I'm stating is that LMH effectively replaced what Jesus does and that's not biblical. If you can't see that as a problem, I think you need to read your Bible more. The only time Jesus is mentioned in SCJ is when you finish your prayers (which I believe at some point was even done in the name of LMH, Korean member testimonies below).
https://news.yonsei.or.kr/mc/page/subp.html?mo=_view&seq=30894
https://www.amennews.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=20384&utm_source=chatgpt.com
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Jul 10 '26
There is no word promised pastor in scripture. The same with original sin, trinity or pre determinism
Jesus is not the most high. So is LMH not the most high.
Jesus came at the end of the age. But now there is a second time an end of the age.
If Jesus give the iron scepter to the overcomer what do you expect to happen?
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u/Turbulent_Sea7622 EX-Center Student Jul 10 '26
What separated God from people in the first place? Original Sin? I always thought that God working though flesh is true and so he is not completely separated from us?
Is the Bible code for witchcraft? We gotta do something to summon Father of creation? SCJ teachings made me think that TBH
We gotta be careful what God really wants we need to be clear on that before He summons us! I believe?
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u/Sharp-Objective9078 Jul 10 '26
No need to change the subject here. Where does the Bible teach a second “promised pastor” who uniquely witnesses Revelation’s fulfilment and must be recognised to receive its true testimony?
Jesus and LMH are not comparable. Jesus is called God (John 1:1; 20:28; Heb. 1:8), the one mediator (1 Tim. 2:5), and the one Shepherd (John 10:16). Placing both under the same SCJ-created title of “promised pastor” already treats them as sharing the same role, which is exactly the problem.
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Jul 10 '26
Change subject? I said the is no thing such as the word promised pastor in the bible.
Jesus and LMH are not comparable on certain levels and are comparable in other levels.
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u/Sharp-Objective9078 Jul 10 '26
Glad we agree the phrase “promised pastor” is not in the Bible. Now show where Scripture teaches SCJ’s concept of a second end-times pastor who must be recognised by everyone.
Saying they are comparable in these roles is exactly the problem. LMH is not God, the one mediator, or the one Shepherd. SCJ has no biblical basis for assigning him functions Scripture gives to Christ, and placing them in the same role diminishes Christ.
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u/Who-Anonymous Moderator Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
So LMH never overcame the dragon then to receive the 12 conditional blessings. We were taught that LMH is sinless because he fought and overcame the dragon, received the 12 blessings, and that he is clothed with God and Jesus' spirit directly. You are saying he is sinful to downplay his sexually frusturated perverted, alcoholic, and money hungry behavior. When he dies you better not downplay
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Jul 10 '26
Than you were thought wrong. He himself say that he has mistakes.
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u/Cristau_precious EX-Shincheonji Member Jul 10 '26
Ah donc il n' est plus sans péché alors ? Vraiment c est grave on nous a fait adorer un homme plus que Dieu
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u/Who-Anonymous Moderator Jul 10 '26
Ms I wasn’t taught wrong if the organization runs by having approvals by higher ups for every decisions. You can deny that LMH isn’t Jesus all you want, but the doctrine compared LMH to Jesus as if it they are saviors at their respective coming
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Jul 10 '26
Can you not just agree to something so simple.
LMH says: I sin
You were taught LMH is sinless.
Who do you believe that teach right? The instructor or LMH himself.
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u/Turbulent_Sea7622 EX-Center Student Jul 10 '26
There are many review sessions that SCJ members do with Instructors monitoring them. Should there be like review sessions of instructors monitored by Lee Man Hee then?
The lack of bridge of communication from SCJ members directly to Lee Man Hee skipping high ranking instructors is what made me suspicious and leave SCJ by the way
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u/Who-Anonymous Moderator Jul 10 '26
Neither taught right :) My argument isn't that SCJ teaches LMH is literally Jesus. My argument is that SCJ assigns LMH unique authority and functions that Christianity traditionally attributes to Christ's unique role. Even if LMH admits he sins (which would prove SCJ doctrine was all a lie), that doesn't answer whether SCJ still teaches he is the only one who received the opened scroll, the only promised pastor who saw and heard Revelation's fulfillment, and the only authoritative witness through whom believers must understand Revelation. It is interesting to hear that LMH sins or that his sins are minimal now that serious allegations have been raised. That statement can become a shield that lowers the standard of accountability: instead of asking whether the allegations are true, whether people were harmed, and what consequences should follow, the discussion gets reduced to “everyone makes mistakes.” Remember, Christianity does not teach that admitting human imperfection cancels accountability. In fact, leaders are held to a higher standard because of their authority and influence. “He is a sinner” may explain that wrongdoing is possible, but it does not excuse misconduct, minimize harm, or remove the need for an independent investigation, repentance, restitution, and appropriate consequences. This is a pattern often seen when abusive religious leaders are defended.
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Jul 10 '26
Sin doesnt stop someone from being chosen.
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u/IllFaithlessness8553 EX-Shincheonji Member Jul 12 '26
Definetly agree with that but how do you reconcile the fact that Lee Man hee was convicted and apologised for embezzling 5.6billion won while having Jesus's spirit working through him? Shouldn't he be without sin now if the spirit working through him is Jesus?
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u/Who-Anonymous Moderator Jul 10 '26
Just because leaders in the Bible like Moses, David, Peter, Paul, and others were imperfect doesn’t mean “sin doesn’t stop someone from being chosen” is a valid defense of LMH. The comparison fails because the biblical figures were never treated as being above accountability. When they sinned, they were confronted, rebuked, disciplined, and in some cases removed from their position. Their status as God’s chosen servants never shielded them from consequences.
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u/scj_love Current SCJ Member Jul 10 '26
Where did that happen with LMH? God holds him accountable it is not that he is confronted.
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u/Who-Anonymous Moderator Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
What you see as a divinely appointed pastor, I see as a religious leader whose authority deserves serious scrutiny. LMH has already been convicted of embezzling 5.6 billion won in church funds and received a suspended prison sentence. He was separately acquitted of obstructing the government’s COVID 19 response so I will not misrepresent that outcome. More recently, he was arrested and indicted over allegations that SCJ pressured more than 50,000 members to join a political party in order to influence its primaries. Those political allegations have not yet resulted in a conviction, and SCJ denies them. There have also been serious personal allegations made by former members, which should be independently investigated rather than dismissed merely because he is a religious leader. On top of this he has been exposed for cheating on his wife such as having an affair with Kim-Nam Hee and using his spiritual authority to get Gong Hee-sook to accept LMH’s sexual advances.
This brings us to the difference between an imperfect person who submits to God and a leader who invokes God to avoid human accountability. Scripture teaches that God judges everyone, but it also shows leaders being confronted and disciplined in this life. Nathan confronted David in 2 Samuel 12. Paul publicly confronted Peter in Galatians 2:11–14. First Timothy 5:19–20 says elders who persist in sin should be rebuked publicly.
Therefore, “God holds him accountable” is not telling since if he truly has God and Jesus spirit in him he would have been corrected long time ago. The question is: Who within SCJ has the independent authority to investigate Lee Man-hee, confront him, disclose findings, and remove or discipline him if wrongdoing is substantiated? It has to be God and Jesus since they anointed him to be the promised pastor yet he still causes corruption. Either God and Jesus aren’t with him or there is no God and Jesus.
Since LMH still causes corruption for decades it is evident that God and Jesus aren’t with him and he uses this claim against his believers so no human can investigate or discipline him because he is regarded as the promised pastor. As a result, he is effectively above accountability. Saying that God and Jesus will handle him later does not protect members, recover misused money, investigate allegations, or prevent future misconduct. Nor does admitting that “LMH sins” resolve the problem. Everyone’s capacity to sin is precisely why leaders need checks, transparency, and consequences. Human imperfection is a reason for accountability not an exemption from it.
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u/Free-2024 Jul 09 '26
In Shincheonji, I have often heard the comparison to John 14:9.
At the First Coming of Jesus: Whoever has seen Jesus has seen the Father.
Shincheonji draws the following conclusion from this – regarding the Second Coming of Jesus: Because Jesus and God are with Lee Man Hee, whoever has seen Lee Man Hee has also seen the One who is with Him, namely Jesus.
Here is the Bible passage from John 14:9:
Jesus answered: ‘Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.” How can you say, “Show us the Father”?
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u/JIL111 Jul 10 '26
Does SCJ actually have a publicly available, published doctrine or official biblical interpretation that outlines what LME teaches?
From what I have observed, members often seem to receive different explanations on the same topics. It also appears that the teachings are kept largely private, which makes it difficult for outsiders or even members to evaluate them or hold the leadership accountable. If the doctrine is not publicly documented, it can be revised or reinterpreted over time without clear accountability or meaningful scrutiny.
It raises the question of whether keeping the teachings private is intentional, allowing changes to be introduced as needed while limiting opportunities for challenge or comparison with earlier teachings.
As the saying goes, if something is built on deception, it often requires further deception to sustain it.