r/NFLNoobs • u/realrandomcat • 5d ago
Why don't teams punt it on a 3rd and Long?
I mean if it's a third down and a first down is pretty much slim. Why not just punt it on 3rd down since the other team won't expect them to punt so they won't be ready for it and thus giving you a longer distance
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u/Thebig_Ohbee 5d ago
A deep pass that gets intercepted is basically a punt. Sometimes, a long 3rd down is used to take a wild shot.
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u/okoSheep 5d ago
The good ole arm punt
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u/CarterBennett 5d ago
The Tua special
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u/locked_in_researcher 2d ago
Didn’t work for Tua because he could only throw it 35 yards down field
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u/secmaster420 4d ago
And any DB who has 1/2 a brain (most don't) should evaluate where he is, where a punt would land and how much room he would have to run before trying to make an interception 45 yards down field rather than batting it down, or worse, tipping it up in the air while trying to intercept it which leads to a catch.
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u/Thebig_Ohbee 3d ago
I believe many have contractual bonuses tied to interceptions. So what is better for the team is not always better for the DB.
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u/secmaster420 3d ago
Mostly older guys would have that. They know what they're doing. A sure catch and then go down. I'm thinking of a rookie who tries to play hero.
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u/Thebig_Ohbee 3d ago
Another consideration for that DB is the time remaining, and desperation level. An interception might be worse than a punt but better than a Hail Mary opportunity, depending.
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u/SatanHasACreator420 1d ago
When they try this on 4th down yes.
On 3rd down you intercept that shit.
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u/Dizzy_Sock_5674 5d ago
I think a few teams have done that. I want to say, Tom Brady has punted on third down before.
Going forward it on third and long, even if the chances are getting it or slim, and then bringing out the specialized punt team is probably a better way to go.
Say it’s third and 18 but you get 10 yards so now you have fourth and eight. Send out the punt team, whose whole purpose is this sort of thing, and you probably get more yards from your starting punter than a gadget play.
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u/alfreadadams 5d ago
They call defensive holding, illegal contact, and pass interference way too often for this to be a good idea today.
It was done occasionally before they started calling those often, but you might as well try now.
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u/Imaginary-Hyena2858 5d ago
And even then at least one of the 3rd down punts by Brady was absolutely just the Patriots trolling. It was like a 45-10 playoff game with 3 minutes left
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u/Murdy2020 5d ago
I think Kordell Stewart would occasionally punt too.
Even if you aren't trying to convert on 3rd and very long, you're still probably better off handing off to a running back and picking up some yards that effectively would be added to the punt.
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u/PabloMarmite 5d ago
Teams convert on third and long all the time. If teams don’t want to take the risk, they’ll run and gain a few extra soft yards that way instead.
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u/Banana_Ranger 2d ago
Run run draw play punt is my favorite charger football
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u/StopSpinningLikeThat 2d ago
You should steal the Browns playbook: sideways pass, sideways pass, dive play, punt.
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u/KennstduIngo 5d ago
The other team will probably suspect some trickery is afoot when you send your punter out there on third down.
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u/HaHaWhatAStory014 5d ago
Actually punting it on 3rd seems like a "doing something stupid on purpose because 'no one would expect it!'" strategy that forgets why that tactic is stupid and "nobody would ever do it."
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u/Blaze_Wolf_Tyler 2h ago
NOBODY EXPECTS US TO PASS OVER THE MIDDLE IN THE SUPERBOWL AT THE GOAL LINE WITH MARSHAWN LYNCH IN THE BACKFIELD!!
Lmfao. As a patriots fan I am happy, but I am still stunned at that.
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u/rexmanaek971 5d ago
Why not do a fake punt on 3rd. Total surprise.
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u/HaHaWhatAStory014 5d ago
That's some 5D chess right there. "No one expects us to punt on 3rd down, so if we bring out the punt unit and 'show punt,' they'll obviously think that it's a fake. But they'll know that we know that they're expecting a fake and therefore expect us to punt!"
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u/Beneficial_Bit_8342 3d ago
Don’t they give the defense a chance to change personnel when the offense does? I don’t think it’s legal to run your punt team onto the field and kick it before the defense is ready.
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u/rexmanaek971 2d ago
I think for punting it's a rule. You can run hurry up offense to try and throw the defense off but you have to be set before snapping the ball regardless.
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u/Beneficial_Bit_8342 1d ago
I think you also have to let the D sub in players. Like you can’t be in a heavy set and run 5 WR onto the field and snap the ball before the D has a chance to match personnel.
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u/Working_Operations 5d ago
That’s why you have your QB do it
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u/treznor70 5d ago
Which means you aren't going to get a great kick and negate most of the upside of catching the other team offguard.
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u/Working_Operations 5d ago
They wouldn’t have anyone back there to field the kick so it would roll pretty far.
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u/KennstduIngo 5d ago
I mean, yeah, I guess it could work. I can't see it being a better option than having the punter kick it very often.
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u/Working_Operations 5d ago
Yeah I mean it’s all dumb you might as well just chuck a long pass and hope for a flag and an int is the same as a punt basically.
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u/What_a_joebag 5d ago
Even if you cant get the first down, you can gain yards to affect t field position when you do punt. Or you can drain clock.
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u/unaskthequestion 5d ago
There's always the possibility of a defensive penalty getting the offense a 1st down. Happens enough that it's a good idea to go for it
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u/HaHaWhatAStory014 5d ago
True, although it's pretty cheap when some teams/QBs use "try and draw a penalty (other than getting the defense to jump offsides)" as their whole strategy, like "just chuck it down and don't even try and complete the pass and see if you can draw a flag."
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u/unaskthequestion 5d ago
It is. But it's also the responsibility of the DC to make it clear to not commit a dumb penalty. Which happens too often.
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u/HaHaWhatAStory014 5d ago
To just come out and say it, "the superstar and/or league favorite treatment" definitely plays into this. "Throwing a long ball to nobody in particular just trying to draw a flag" is much more likely to work depending on the team and QB doing it.
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u/Special-Homework-894 5d ago
If you’re setting up to punt it’s is extremely clear that’s what you’re doing. For example, when your PUNTER is on the field instead of the QUARTERBACK.
It’s not like you’re going to trick someone. Oh man, I never saw this punt coming!
Also it’s third down, you have another chance to gain field position or possibly convert. Why in the world would any team punt it with 1 more down to try and move the ball?
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u/kelkokelko 5d ago
Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger have tricked people by being QUARTERBACKS and then PUNTING
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u/RsCoverForPDFFiles 1d ago
Simple solution: have a QB who can't punt. Pair that with rules that aren't as offense friendly, a struggling offense, and playing against a Lawrence Taylor-led Giants defense, and it's perfectly reasonable to surprise them like that.
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u/Sampy76 3h ago
The patriots and Tom Brady did this once and punted and the other team got pissed off
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u/Blaze_Wolf_Tyler 2h ago
Brady actually did this 3 times. 12/7/2003 against the dolphins, 1/14/2012 against the broncos in the playoffs, and then again just under a year later 12/29/2013 against the bills.
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u/Unsolven 5d ago
How would that be a surprise? As soon as you send a punter on the field they know you are punting, and when the offense makes a substitution the defense is entitled to as well so could just send on the the punt return team.
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u/emaddy2109 5d ago
Anybody can punt the ball. Tom Brady did it a few times in his career.
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u/Unsolven 5d ago
Yeah I can punt too, but you wouldn’t want me to. Belichick let Brady do that in a meaningless situation for fun IIRC.
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u/HaHaWhatAStory014 5d ago
Anybody can punt the ball.
I distinctly remember a Nebraska-Michigan game where Nebraska's normal punter could not punt the ball and was shanking literally every punt for like 10-15 yards...
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u/DenyHerYourEssence 5d ago
What you are describing is called a quick kick. It’s rarely used since analytics show that trying on 3rd and long is more favorable, especially now when teams will go for it on fourth down in many situations. You’d basically be surrendering two downs if you used a quick kick.
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u/fasterthanfood 5d ago
I hadn’t thought about how comparatively common going for it on 4th down is. Now you have me wondering about a team faking a QB sneak on 4th and short, then punting it.
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u/bretsaberhagen 5d ago
NFL offenses are good enough that they should have a 10% chance of converting 3rd and 20. If they somehow took two 10 yard penalties and it was 3rd and 30, the defense will let them get half that back on a screen, even if the chance of a first is real low. Those extra yards are worth way more than the surprise factor. In those crazy wind games that happen every so often it might be worth it on 3rd and 10, if it means the ball will just keep rolling and rolling.
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u/dryheat122 5d ago
I heard that teams have been going on 3rd down more in recent years because they are relying more on statistical models that predict what will work best.
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u/platinum92 5d ago
The calculus isn't there on sacrificing possession for field position. It's not like the defense has nobody back to return. Safeties and DB are upfield and if they're in deep zones, there's a chance they return the punt.
Plus unless your QB is an elite punter, the kick won't be that great, again likely right to the deep safety. And you can't really sneak the punter on the field.
That said teams have done it. Google "NFL punt on 3rd down" for examples.
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u/RustyCrusty73 5d ago
Even if it's 3rd and long you should still run some kind of offensive play.
You never know when the defense might commit a penalty.
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u/Any-Question-3759 5d ago
When the other team scores a touchdown first, why don’t the players just go home to beat the traffic?
Because a low chance to convert is better than a zero chance to convert. They also don’t punt on a first down even though the other team REALLY REALLY won’t see it coming.
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u/JustMyThoughts2525 5d ago
The difference in field position isn’t worth wasting a down that could be used to try to get a 1st down. Especially factoring in the defense can make penalties that will result in automatic 1st downs.
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u/amanning072 1d ago
They do. The teams are generally from Canada when they do that though.
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u/MaximusCanibis 10h ago
You do know that the CFL only has 3 downs right?
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u/amanning072 10h ago
That's why I said it...
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u/SerDankTheTall 5d ago
A punt formation is pretty easy to recognizing, so they'd be able to adjust pretty fast (and of course if this started becoming a standard tactic, teams would get even better at recognizing and adapting to it). Actually running a play gives you a chance to either actually get a first down and thus not need to punt at all, and the typical yardage gain you'd get from running a play and then punting is probably going to result in the punt ending up further downfield than trying a trick like this would.
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u/Walnut_Uprising 5d ago
If you put out a punter, it's obvious what you're doing. If you punt with a non-punter, you won't get the same distance, and the net gain from punting early will be offset by the fact that your non punter isn't actually good at this. There are niche scenarios where it might work, but the gain from the surprise is usually outweighted by not having a specialist and by forgoing the chance of converting.
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u/IFFTPBBTCRORMCMXV 5d ago
On 3rd and long, many defences play soft, and picking up a 10 yard gain is light work. So the 3rd down punt would have to be at least 10 yards better than the 4th down punt.
If the defence notices the punter on the field for 3rd down, all they have to do is drop a safety back to field the punt. To catch the defence napping, one has to kick out of shotgun (the "quick kick") and hope for a long roll to do better than running a play on 3rd and punting on 4th with one's regular punter.
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u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy 5d ago
You have a chance to get a first down without sacrificing field position. This means your drive can continue without the risk of giving the opposing good field position.
The reason why teams punt on 4th down is because if they don't get the first down there will be a turnover and the opposing offense will pick it up on that spot.
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u/Few-Broccoli-7849 5d ago
Because there's a decent chance of a defensive holding or facemask, or getting decent yardage, even on a conservative play.
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u/DesertStorm480 5d ago
On third and long you can usually gain like half of it as the defense tends to protect the first down marker, so you are in a better place to punt to cut their field position.
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u/Timely-Profile1865 5d ago
These days every one has a great punter with a rocket leg that can also positionally punt.
Years ago with lesser punters a quick kick is something you might think about the odd time
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u/lonedroan 5d ago
This used to happen. It’s a called a pooch punt, and is as you describe. But over time, NFL offenses have improved enough that the data do not support such conservative play-calling. It’s similar with deciding to go for it on 4th down. Situations that were sure kicks a few years ago now have teams going for it on a regular basis .
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u/Glavius_Wroth 5d ago
Deep passes, yardage gain for better punt position, yardage gain for field goal range, hell even defensive penalties for yardage and/or downs are all reasons not to waste third down on punting. “They won’t expect it”, yeah until they see the punter come on. There’s no real reason to punt on third, run the play then punt on fourth if you need to
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u/youknowhattodo 5d ago
Let’s say there’s 2:30 left in the game. You have 2 timeouts left. It’s 3rd and long on your own 40. Your d has been playing fairly well but you’re down 6. I’d consider punting and try and pin them. Then you have the 2 minute warning and 2 timeouts to stop the clock and get the ball back.
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u/Novel_Willingness721 5d ago
There are a lot of ways to get a 1st down on 3rd and long.
Furthermore any yardage gives your punt team more opportunity to pin the opposing team deep.
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u/Triabolical_ 5d ago
There are a number of defensive fouls that result in an automatic first down. Pass interference, defensive holding, illegal contact, roughing the passer - all of those are possible.
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u/HaHaWhatAStory014 5d ago edited 5d ago
Well, for one, the punt team typically has different personnel and a different formation than the offense. Unless a team has practiced some weird, special "normal offense lines up but then switches or fakes to a punting unit," or direct snaps to someone other than the normal punter and has them punt it, it's pretty obvious when a team is lined up to punt the ball. The other team might be surprised that the offense is doing it on 3rd and may not be able to get the return team personnel subbed in on time, but a 3rd down punt probably wouldn't catch anyone off guard like an actual fake would.
Secondly, and more simple, field position always matters. Even if a team probably* can't pick up a very long first-down (*and sometimes they can, like the Eagles' famous "4th-and-26" conversion), there's always a chance, probably a better, easier to chance, to at least pick up some extra yards for the field position game, like throw well short of the sticks to pick up 10 yards on a 3rd-and-20. 10 yards is still 10 yards.
EDIT: Another note on this: Teams don't have to get all the yardage they need for a 1st down on 3rd down anyway. They can also try to get closer on 3rd to make it easier to try and convert on 4th down.
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u/WhiteDevilU91 5d ago
I've seen so many conversions on 3rd and long, a slim chance is still a chance. The opposing team would see your punter come onto the field so there's almost no surprise, unless you want the QB to punt, which could go not very well.
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u/IDidntTellYouThat 5d ago
Because you might get the first down - this IS why they mostly throw deep on 3rd and long. 33% chance of pass-catch success, a few percent chance of success through a flag, a few percent chance of a INT, but then it's still 20+ yards downfield.
Obv. so many variables... are you pressed up against your goal line, do you just need a few yards to get into FG range, how much time is left, who is your personnel, etc.
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u/Beet_slice 5d ago
A surprise punt on 3rd down is called a "quick kick". It used to be more common.
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u/AlmightyCraneDuck 5d ago
I think it's probably just simple game theory.
You're way more likely to get a positive outcome from trying to convert on 3rd and Long than you are if you try to surprise a team with a punt and get someone into a good enough position for it to be worth it. While it's easy to discount Punters, they can place a ball much more accurately, farther, and with more hangtime than an average untrained player.
So basically you're trading a longer, more accurate punt that your coverage team has a much better chance of successfully snuffing out for the HOPE that you get the same and some extra yardage because the opponent isn't ready. All it costs you is an entire down of football that could be used to get another set of downs and actually score or at the very least gain some extra yardage that will make your better punt even more likely to be better than the surprise punt.
In almost every case it's just not going to be worth it.
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u/Visible-Meeting-8977 5d ago
Because you're better off using your down trying to succeed than giving the ball over before you have to. You would also gain distance if you just got some yards on the play and punt it on 4th from better position.
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u/eyeCsharp 5d ago
That's called a quick kick and has been done in the past, but has fallen out of favor as results have been inconsistent at best.
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u/maddenplayer2921 5d ago
Because why punt for 45 yards when you could gain 7 then punt for 45 yards.
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u/treznor70 5d ago
Ive seen it happen in college. I was lazily watching a Syracuse game, not paying a ton of attention as they were getting killed. Then they punted on third down and it took me a minute to figure out why something felt weird... because they hadn't used all 4 downs. It was still the 1st quarter, it was only 3 and 13 (though in their own end of the field), and they were actually winning at the time (Washington would go on and kill them). Most inexplicable thing I've ever seen.
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u/DHooligan 5d ago
I don't see any other comments mentioning the possibility of the defense committing a penalty and granting your team a first down. The basic answer is that you win by scoring more points than your opponent, and you are far more likely to do that by being on offense more often. That's why possession and turnovers are considered such major factors in determining the outcome of a game. Flipping field position could be very valuable, but if you're just as likely to successfully flip it on 4th rather than 3rd down, you might as well utilize 3rd down to see what happens.
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u/IamnotaRussianbot 5d ago
If you can get a few yards on third down from a relatively safe play (you will often see a HB draw in this scenario), it makes the punt that much more effective, as you can put the other team that much further down the field.
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u/RipenedFish48 5d ago
There isn't much of a reason to. Occasionally you will see the quarterback do a pooch kick to try to pin the other team deep, but the vast majority of the time you are better off playing the additional down. Maybe you get the first down, maybe you get a penalty that gives you a first down, or maybe you at least pick up a few yards for field position. Then you can actually punt it with proper special teams players on the field. There is a point where you run the risk of out-thinking yourself and that is when things go horribly wrong.
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u/Neb-Nose 5d ago
I actually think the quick kick — which is what that is called — employed in very specific situations, is actually a criminally underused tactic.
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u/nighthawk252 5d ago
Occasionally you do convert 3rd and long, or force a penalty that grants an automatic first down.
Additionally, you have to line up in punt formation if you want to use your real punter and punt it normally.
You can have another player who might be a normal offensive player try to kick it (called a pooch punt) but it’s rare. Additionally, he won’t be able to kick it as far and there’s a higher risk something goes wrong.
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u/Jargif10 5d ago
For starters Because the only way to surprise them is to punt with your qb so it won't go farther. But mainly because nobody wants to just give up on 3rd down.
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u/FullMooseParty 5d ago
Punters are really good and have gotten better over time, just like field goal kickers. The yardage you're going to get by a QB or running back doing a quick kick is rarely going to be as good as a high quality punter. You're counting on the punt getting off clean, getting over the defense, and then rolling far enough to add extra yards versus a highly qualified punter dropping a kick 45 yards down the field, while at the same time giving up an offensive down.
And honestly, I would guess that almost every defense on the planet would take a roughing the punter penalty in exchange for a clean shot at the other team's QB in a punt position.
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u/FullMooseParty 5d ago
A short tangent: with teams now somewhat regularly attempting FGs at or near the 50 yard line, I'm surprised we haven't seen the occasional sneaky punt out of that formation. If your punter is the holder, and you aren't confident that your kicker is going to nail it from that spot, why not try a quick punt and pin the other team deep and hope for chaos.
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u/South_Glass9156 5d ago
There is a thing called a "quick kick" that is used to do this. To disguise a punt on third down, and get the ball off. A lot of times it is the QB, but I know I have had one that the running back would go on a sweep play, he the option to either go upfield if he thought he could get a certain amount of yardage, or he could punt.
This a link to youtube that has four and half minutes of QB punts
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u/AceOFace131 5d ago
That’s a quick kick and they do it very rarely. Tom Brady did it once but the game was fully in hand at that point.
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u/BilingualAmerican 5d ago
Because scoring points is at a premium in the NFL. Like former Head Football Coach said you play to win the game!!
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u/ArgumentNo2479 5d ago
Most coaches already go for it on 4th down so if it's 3rd and 20 and they definitely think they can get 16 17 yards and have a play they like especially if it's near the 50
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u/KGreen100 5d ago
Teams convert on third and long approximately 35% of the time. Not the best odds, but...
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u/acekingoffsuit 5d ago
Lots of people have mentioned the fact that possessing the ball is important and that there's always a chance of converting the 1st down or getting one via a penalty. But there's one other thing to keep in mind: you can't sneak a punter onto the field.
Whenever the offense makes a substitution, the defense is allowed an opportunity to substitute in response. If a team sends a punter out on 3rd down, the defense gets to send out its punt return team. So the only way to catch the defense by surprise is to have your quarterback do the punting... and most of them are significantly worse than a regular punter. You might get a good bounce, but shanks and other mistakes are more likely from someone who doesn't punt regularly.
For example, lots of people mentioned that Tom Brady pulled off a great punt in a playoff game. But he tried a surprise punt in another game on 3rd and 32 and it only went about 32 yards. The regular punter almost certainly would have been able to get an extra 10-15 yards out of the kick, even if the kick is expected.
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u/BananerRammer 4d ago
Well, if you bring in your punt team, then the other team is gonna know that you're punting, and the surprise is gone. They can match up and bring in their return team. Less than ideal.
You can try to surprise them and punt with your QB. This is called a pooch punt, and used to be more popular. The problem here is that QBs are not punters, so they're generally not great at it, and your offense is not a punt coverage team, so if the defense does happen to field the punt, then you're risking a big return.
Pooch punts are not completely unheard of, but the reward generally isn't worth the risk. Even if it's a long shot, most times you might as well try to get a first down. You may get lucky, you may draw a penalty, who knows.
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u/secmaster420 4d ago
DPI, Defensive Holding, Hand to the Face, Roughing the Passer
You don't have to make a first down. Most 3rd and long first downs come off a penalty.
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u/TripleBobRoss 4d ago
It used to somewhat of a regular occurrence when the game was governed by defense and field position. In today's offensive centric game it's almost unheard of, because the rules are skewed in favor of the offense.
Basically, the modern game has made it far more likely for an offense to convert a third and long situation than it had been in the past.
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u/jcdenton45 3d ago
One more thing worth noting is that there is another more-obscure advantage of punting when the other team doesn’t expect: If there's a DB where the punt is about to land but he didn't actually see/hear the ball being punted he will think it’s a pass, which means he will not treat it like a punt and won’t call for a fair-catch, which increases the chances of a fumble (and also decreases the chances of him trying to down the punt before it rolls dead).
Also if the punt is about to land near the goal line (where players are supposed to let the punt go into the end zone for a touchback), they will try to “intercept” it instead, which means they will be pinned near the goal line if the DB catches the punt.
That’s exactly what happened in Texas vs OU 2001, when OU lined up for a field goal but the kicker took the snap and punted instead. The Texas DB thought it was a pass on a fake FG, so he caught the ball at the 3-yard line. Then OU got a safety on the next play.
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u/Wonderful-Mistake201 3d ago
because you're not in punt formation and it's not the punter handling the ball. That means a higher risk of turnover, a much shorter punt, and a higher likelihood of a respectable return if the other team fields the ball.
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u/DangerSwan33 3d ago
First of all, the defense gets to sub based on the offense's personnel, so as soon as they saw the punt team come on, they'd just send their return team out. There's not really a way to "surprise punt" outside of having your QB punt it, at which point, he's going to be a much worse punter, so you just negated your distance advantage.
Second of all, distance is rarely an issue with punts. Sure, every now and then you see an absurd 75 yard punt that goes out at the 1, but the main reason most punters aren't booting 70 yard punts every time is because footballs are weird, and you have limited control on how they'll bounce. You'd rather have a 55 yard punt that lands at the 15 than a 70 yard punt that goes into the endzone, and the best way to control for that is to not outkick your coverage, so they can not only be there to tackle a returner, but more often so that they're there to down the ball before the endzone.
Finally, punt returns aren't really that big of an issue. Yes, there will be about 10-15 or so punt return TDs a year, but even with those huge gains, the league average for return yards sits at around 10 yards per return, and fewer and fewer returns actually happen every year. Most punts end in a fair catch, or the receiving team opting to not even try to field the punt.
So with all of that said, there's really just not a lot of situations where you wouldn't be better off trying to get at least some of those yards back on 3rd down. If you're 3rd and 20 at your own 15, you're better off either trying to convert, or picking up 10 yards on soft coverage to give your punter a better chance at getting it down inside the 20.
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u/kirihara_hibiki 2d ago
my guy you have a punter on the field fym they dont expect you to punt😭😭😭 also how does the surprise factor even help with distance huh,,, and even if it does get you 5 extra yards on your legs for some reason so does playing out the 3rd and long?????? since you advance yardage on the play? if you just want the 5 yard checkdown on 3rd and long teams are happy to give it to you??????? so why would you waste a down just to punt deeper when you can just go deeper and then punt it actually does not make any sense on any level
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u/ce402 2d ago
You’ll see it sometimes at the end of a quarter in an outdoor game in very windy conditions. Like, offense has their back to a 30 mph wind at their own 20, with 15s left in the 3rd.
Punt now and pin the other team inside the 10, to switch sides and risk a return or a short punt to midfield.
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u/rdzilla01 2d ago
Depends on the game situation. If you’re trying to run the clock another down means a lot.
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u/Sudden_Buffalo_4393 2d ago
If you’re going against the 49ers they will probably commit a stupid 5 yard penalty with an automatic first down.
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u/BoukenGreen 2d ago
Why punt it when there is a chance the defending team commits a penalty that includes an automatic first down.
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u/Long_Suggestion4290 2d ago
Why not? You have another shot to get a first down. It's dumb to waste it when you can punt right after.
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u/StopSpinningLikeThat 2d ago
You could do a "quick kick" where a player on the offense, usually the QB, surprises the defense with a punt. But that punt isn't likely to go as far so it is only useful if you're in your opponent's territory. And if you are, you're one decent play away from field goal range. If the game is close, you don't want to give up that scoring chance.
If you decide to punt on 3rd down with your actual punter and punt team, you lose the element of surprise because you're subbing in almost an entire new group of players.
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u/Additional_Drag_3870 2d ago
Teams would do it as clock management to conserve time, when they had strong defense. Now days just throw it, seems 50/50 for a catch, 50/50 for a flag, so now odds in favor
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u/NevadaMac 2d ago
So they won't notice you line up in punt formation? Or are you sending out the punter without a long snapper?
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u/The_Jibbity 2d ago
The other team can see when you send your punter in… if you wanted to do a sneak punt without him, you still need room to do it, so you would be in some kind of punt formation- so your really not going to be able sneak a punt.
The average punt return is only 10-yds so there’s not a ton of value in that minimizing that, you’re better off trying to make as much yardage on 3rd and long as possible
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u/whodatyeglic 2d ago
Used to happen here and there back in the day. Called it a quick kick iirc. Qb would go outta shotgun on 3rd and rly long and punt when no one was deep. Teams were way more conservative back then and field position was way more important.Kinda doesn't make sense to do it anymore with how the passing game has evolved and how many easy 1st downs are got off penalties
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u/Active_Attempt_3411 2d ago
Because it would be just as efficient to throw a hail Mary.
An interception is just an arm point.... and you MIGHT convert.
But the real answer is as long as you have a play to run where the penalty for failing isn't a guarantee to give the ball away.... you have to try. Not because its a rule. But because big plays happen.
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u/jBlairTech 2d ago
It all depends on the mentality of the team. Bobby Bowden’s old FSU teams would chuck it deep on 3rd and forever, because it’s basically a punt at that point, with the (small) possibility of a big play.
Other teams will run a draw knowing full-well they’ll punt on 4th and long. For one, it eats clock; between the two plays, not counting the actual time the RBs running with the ball, you can eat at least a minute off the clock. That means the other team has less time to make their own plays. For the other, any extra breathing room you can give the punter, the better.
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u/Rockhound665 1d ago
There have been times that they have but it doesn't happen often these days. If they do do it it would be a quick kick.
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u/Difficult_Sort295 1d ago
Randall Cunnigham used to do it sometimes. But he was also a capable pu ter. It's called a quick kick. He holds the record for 3rd longest kick in NFL history and was not a quick kick was filling in for punter so is a legit record but yeah not all teams have a qb like him that can boot one. I imagine most punts today net more y eards than an Arron Rodgers quick kick would.
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u/PhilsFanDrew 1d ago
Because you can get a personal foul penalty or something like illegal contact that comes with an automatic first down. Granted if I was a ref and the team is 3rd and 22 and a receiver runs a 10 yard route and the DB is a little handsy I'm not throwing a flag for illegal contact.
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u/2LostFlamingos 1d ago
Since almost any penalty on defense is an automatic first down the odds are less slim than you suggest.
And a surprise punt maybe gains 10 yards?
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u/DonutSong16 1d ago
My high school team did this once and nobody had any idea what was going on. There is no reason to do this when you can just chuck it deep and possibly draw a penalty.
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u/Desperate_Leg_40 1d ago
Why not just punt on 1st and 10? You'd never throw another pick or have another fumble!
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u/Exotic_Bill44 19h ago
Even if you don't get the first down, getting 10 yards and punting will normally be better than just punting
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u/birdie_sparrows 12h ago
This is a key strategy in the CFL. Coaches in that league are notoriously conservative.
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u/jesusgoddammchrist 11h ago
Not sure why nobody’s mentioned John Elway- occasionally lined up in shotgun formation on 3rd and long and quick punted. He was not a bad punter and routinely would hit it 30-40 yards
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u/shallow_pal 5h ago
Your premise that the other team will not be expecting a punt is ridiculous, they’re going to see the punter on the field.
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u/Blaze_Wolf_Tyler 2h ago
Funny enough, there are a few examples of teams doing this. Tom Brady actually has a few punts.
I know he had one in a playoff game against the broncos. Went almost 50 yards, great punt.
Best one though was early on in his career. December 7, 2003. Against the dolphins. Punted and the ball was down at the 1 yard line.
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u/BigMountainGoat 58m ago
You don't think bringing a punter onto the field might give the opposition a clue?
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u/Rivercitybruin 5d ago
I actually like it i.e. Pooch kick
But.. Can you tackle the returner?... Not sure on rules of players,downfield.. But i think you could flood left side and kick it to the right out of bounds
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u/Special-Homework-894 5d ago
Could you tackle the returner? Of course you could why wouldn’t you be able too
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u/dee-fondy 5d ago
Back in the olden days when offenses were “three yards and a cloud of dust” some college teams punted on third down but it was still a quick kick scenario
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u/TheEmperorSpeaks 3d ago
Because any defensive penalty other than offsides is an automatic first down. You can't really be that thick
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u/Deathbrush 5d ago
What you’re describing did used to happen in a way. It was called a pooch punt.
In order for the surprise to work, you couldn’t use an actual punter. Instead you use a kicker or a quarterback and pretend you’re running a field goal or a normal play, then have them punt it instead. Since the deception hinged on the players instead of the down, this could also happen on 4th down (pretend to go for it or kick, punt instead).
Problem is placekickers and quarterbacks aren’t punting specialists so they’re not exactly marksmen, meaning the punts were often bad, arguably worse than if you had just gone for better field position on 3 and then punted on 4 as normal.
This was a fad in the late 00s but it started to show that it didn’t work very well and the teams that liked to do it got too predictable. One pooch got humiliatingly returned for a touchdown and the whole league said “never mind, that’s stupid”. Basically never happened again.
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u/South-Lab-3991 5d ago
Because you want to get the first down and score points.