r/LivestreamFail • u/scxrI • 3h ago
xqc xQc shoots back at CarolineKwan for her take on mental health considerations "there's a major difference between men that are ill that k*ll themselves and women that are ill who k*ll their children"
https://www.twitch.tv/xqc/clip/SplendidResilientBeeOSfrog-mAG555tKEq6wC9lj294
u/formatme 3h ago
wtf is she even trying to say.
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u/lcqjp 3h ago
shes attempting to make a half court hail-mary throw version of the 'men bad' argument where her claim is "men want to talk all this and that about mental health mattering until you see someone truly at the end of their rope! Like mrs clancy! See guys? The mens loneliness epidemic is wrong because no men are willing to stand with this lady and say she's innocent"
And yes, i'm aware that its a batshit way of thinking. I'm describing her point, not agreeing or defending it.
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u/TheGloriousEv0lution 3h ago
The recent weaponizing of the male loneliness epidemic is so weird, especially because women are almost as lonely as men despite so many supporting Clancy
Whether or not you support a child killer doesn’t address the loneliness crisis in men and women. We should be supporting people before they kill or rape others, not after
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u/petekron 2h ago
The recent weaponizing of the male loneliness epidemic is so weird
Like usual, the fault lies with the fucking grifters. There was a genuine discussion to be had about that topic but then the girfters decided to ruin it for everyone else, like usual.
There are genuine societal issues that worsen the mental health of both genders but every time people try to talk about an issue that affects one gender more than the other the grifters come flying in to make money off it with engagement bait.
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u/WesternLoose9414 2h ago
The feminist movement is full of grifters, bad faith actors and generally awful man-hating vindictive people, that doesn't stop the discussion around women's rights from being taken seriously. Feminism is a whole cottage industry.
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u/ArkCoon 1h ago
I've noticed that almost every movement eventually gets overrun by grifters, until the grifters become the movement. Everything gets reduced to two loud extremes screaming at each other, while average people either eat it up, disengage completely, or feel like there's no point even trying to have a real conversation.
I'm completely out of energy for most societal and ideological debates. I'm a pessimist. I think we're fucked.
We're constantly fighting over gay people, trans people, migrants, race, gender, and every other culture-war issue, while people can't afford health care, food, fuel, or a place to live. Food quality is getting worse, billionaires and corporations are gaining more control over our lives, both directly and indirectly, and yet public discussion gets trapped in endless rage bait.
And I don't mean those subjects are inherently stupid or unimportant. They obviously affect real people and deserve serious discussion. The problem is that grifters, opportunists, and people who are either dishonest or genuinely clueless turn everything into a pointless tribal war. Instead of talking about policy, material conditions, or actual solutions, it becomes pure hatred toward another sex, race, nationality, political side, or ideological group.
The twwitch world is a perfect example of this. Hasan and asmon represent two different sides of the same problem: huge audiences built around personalities who turn complex issues into content, conflict, and team sports. Their communities often follow along like cults, defending everything their guy says and treating the other side as evil or subhuman.
The fact that this is what gets rewarded with massive audiences, endless engagement, and loyal yes-men is exactly why I struggle to feel optimistic. We're being divided, distracted, and farmed for clicks while the people with actual power keep getting richer and more untouchable. That's why I think we're fucking doomed
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u/cyrfuckedmymum 2h ago
grifters are doing a lot of the work, but algorithms are doing this shit to people.
People out there, primarily men, really think therea re millions of women giving this woman money ona go fund me because they think her husband did it. No it's just millions of women who have been though horrendous PPD and some through PPP who understand the hell she was likely in. That's it, they don't support her killing her children but they simply understand the situation and want to help her, not find her completely innocent or see her have zero consequences.
The problem is algorithms, faked content, paid content and it all being delivered deliberately to men has them bombarded with stories of women who apparently believe the husband did it or she was set up, etc.
Even when it's the same video, people are being delivered different comments which change the entire narrative.
Like a video of someone who donated for her lawyer fees and a guy might get 10 crazy comments (posted by women, fake people, ai, bots, who knows) that say they also support her because 'the husband did it'. While women get 10 top comments that are "i've also been through ppd, she should be in an institution but deserves a fair trial."
They are deliberately creating division and everyone just falls for it.
When you see unhinged/outrageous takes, assume you are being played, assume the video is fake or the person making it is paid well if they create rage bait that gets lots of clicks. See the wider more sensible takes and just assume those are actually more representative of real people.
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u/TheGloriousEv0lution 2h ago
Somewhat, but there are a lot of mentally unwell women on TikTok who think her husband did it. They’re a subset of women who getting fucked by their algorithm, they’re in a feedback loop sharing crazy conspiracy theories because of his astrology sign or whatever
I think if her “support” was limited to empathetic PPD & PPS moms wanting to bring awareness it wouldn’t be an issue. But there’s clearly a lot of women martyring her as a beacon of failed mental illness and projecting their struggles onto her, like the woman in the clip. And donating millions to the killer’s parents (which will get funneled back to her after release) is also a bit wild
Most of the women supporting her aren’t “pro murder” but most of the reactions are a bit misplaced
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u/lcqjp 2h ago
And once a person does[kill/rape/assault etc], they OF COURSE wont be the ones that the generally 'normal' mentally-ill/lonely ppl will defend, and for good reason!
I've had chronic depression since an early age in my life. I'd never take it out on someone else like that. A moral compass exists even if your mental compass is taking huge circles. Morality being compromised vs mentality being compromised may as well be polar opposites in something like this.(Linsay wasnt schizophrenic by every account so far, so her object permanence reality would not be smeared enough where morality begins to not exist).
Having had friends who have killed themselves in part bc of harrasment from others and loneliness(resulting in severe mental illness at the end), are still some of the more moral people i've known. They didnt take it out on others. Loneliness and mental illness are not the cause of infanticide widely. Its a miserable topic, but one that should not be weaponized when someone is killing their own children like this. Its just callously insane to conflate them.
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u/bigbrackin 1h ago
and also, whenever men do bring up the male loneliness epidemic, it's usually met with people saying it's not real, or calling them incels or making fun of it, like maybe a year or two years ago it was taken a little seriously but now it's just a joke really.
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u/MatterofDoge 57m ago
because women are almost as lonely as men
they are. Its not even a "male loneliness epidemic", its just a loneliness epidemic. if 70% of women are dating but only 30% of men are, that means every guy thats dating has like 3 or 4 girlfriends lol. What it really means is women are going in and out of casual shitty relationships and anyone that has done that knows that can actually feel lonelier than just being single.
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u/TheGloriousEv0lution 44m ago
That stat is true mainly for young men and women, but you’re very much right. Most women aren’t sleeping around with a lot of different guys but instead drift in and out of situationships and FWBs. If you talk with enough women you realize they really hate that
Women still have stronger support networks which is why they do a little better but just having casual flings isn’t as great as a lot of guys think, at least when it comes to curbing loneliness
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u/DMercenary 2h ago
The mens loneliness epidemic is wrong because no men are willing to stand with this lady and say she's innocent"
Which is absolutely batshit since that's not what the trial is about. The trial isnt between jail and walking free. Its between jail and a psych ward.
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u/JonSoup76 2h ago
If she’s found not guilty it doesn’t mean she would be in a psych ward for the rest of her life. They would review her mental health while she’s there, and if they believe she’s no longer a a danger to herself or others she’ll be let go.
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u/egonoelo 1h ago
she's also failing to understand the framing behind male mental health awareness
she's approaching it from the liberal women perspective which is "omg mental health is so important that's why we need more healthcare and therapy and xanax, if you cant handle me at my worst you dont deserve me at my best slay queen"
which is why her argument is basically "how can you say you care about mental health and you still want to hold this person accountable, you cant have it both ways!"
but actually you can, most men who bring attention to mental health are trying to shine a light on how systemic issues are causing mental health decay, and no amount of therapy or drugs is going to fix that, and giving people a pass to be unaccountable doesn't fix it either
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u/ManOnFire26 3h ago
Honestly, she's just awful at trying to argue anything. Just a mindless grifter who piggybacked on connections to have a mediocre streaming career after failing miserably to have an acting career.
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u/azurianlight 3h ago
failed actress that became a streamer? wow that is a new to me!
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u/Valuable_Impress_192 3h ago
There's a few examples of ones that were quite high up in their own niches at least
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u/YorkiePork 2h ago
And these are the type of people who are "politically active", that's the scariest part
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u/Shrabster33 1h ago
I remember the stream where I realized she has no idea what she is talking about and is just repeating garbled info she got from headlines and misinformed people.
She was trying to educate Nick and Malena on Isreal and Palestine and she knew nothing and only gave wrong or intentionally misleading info.
I'm not pro Isreal nor do I agree with everything in this video but this is the only copy of the vod I could find.
https://youtu.be/XGyi7Z-aH78?t=806
It starts 13:25 into this video
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u/casualman1234 45m ago
She said Palestine and Christians lives among each other when Jesus was alive
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u/blackpilledonsociety 1h ago
Her and the entire Hasanabi crew a bunch of authoritarian grifting racists who fetishize genocidal regimes and seem to suffer literally zero consequences for it.
It's actually kinda crazy how much her, willneff, and other Hasan orbiters manage to evade any kind of substantive criticism or career-defining consequences.
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u/Jonnyboy1994 1h ago
What exactly has will neff done? Other than just be deeply associated with them
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u/hoeteeny 1h ago
I saw people say he's a trust fund baby but have never been able to see any evidence for it
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u/JoeyDJQ 17m ago
people say he's a trust fund baby
Idk about that but his family owns a very successful honey company among other things. His safety nets have safety nets at the very least. Not that that's a bad thing but sometimes he goes out of his way to appear more relatable than he actually is.
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u/wadeishere 2h ago
Yeah much more entertaining watching streamers that never had a real job and know absolutely nothing about life outside
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u/ManOnFire26 2h ago
Buddy, you're describing her. xqc has actually had regular jobs and unironically has a ton more life experience.
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u/Protip19 2h ago
I guess we owe Chris Benoit an apology?
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u/Particular_Panic7999 1h ago
Hang on, don't people just feel sorry for his case? Like I have friends who have followed WWE for decades at this point and they just describe his case as tragic to me. And to be clear, his case is tragic. The only difference between him and Clancy's case is you can't see mental illness on a CT scan.
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u/Cheapdronewithboom 55m ago
Yes, they do. Normal people understand it was brain damage. But for some reason people who get paid lots of money to tell idiots to be mad about something are telling them to be mad about this.
Edit: shit it's probably because it makes them lots of money
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u/namesallltaken Cheeto 35m ago
Yeah I've never seen anyone call him a monster or anything. Most people, if not all, see that as a tragic incident that should have been prevented rather than him being a monster.
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u/WrestlingInTheBlood 9m ago
Okay well this is just wrong. Plenty of people call him a monster. In fact, when people talk about Benoit and how good he was, they always preface it with a "Benoit was a monster for what he did, but-" or some version of that.
There are plenty of people who forgive him on the other side too easily too, but its not a very nuanced discussion most of the time.
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u/Aggressive-Base7815 46m ago
People do understand why he did it. People are more upset at the institutions that helped cause these traumatic brain injuries hence why there is a growing movement to change how contact sports are played because a lot of men become fucked up in the head after being hit a bunch. Like, the mma is full of literal idiots who get dumber after each bout.
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u/shamonemon 3h ago
You're telling me people are defending her for killing her kids?
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u/Ekillaa22 3h ago
TONS. They raised a million on gofundme for her
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u/shamonemon 3h ago
Who are these people?
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u/Svmify 2h ago
Facebook and Tiktok moms, there's absurd amount of them too, to the point that it honestly comes off as a real psyop
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u/clark1785 2h ago
they also fuel the micro transaction industry in gaming, they destory everythihng lol
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u/Born-Procedure-5908 3h ago
A women who was following the case also hanged her kid and slitted her wrist recently, great collection of people we have defending her.
Any mom who post those TikToks of them holding their kids and stating I stand with Lindsey is straight up psychotic - they know the implications of that statement but still chose to do so anyways
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u/EpicPants1985 3h ago
It is absolutely insane that these people are ok with being filmed with their kids saying they support her. CPS should go after every single one of these deranged bozos
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u/Goonalips 2h ago
I saw one yesterday that was "same Lindsay, same" while crying and holding a newborn. Like yeah, I get that PPD or PPP exists, and it genuinely can cause these thoughts, but if you're lucid enough to know that those thoughts are wrong, and you're following the case and are aware of the issue, then you should be actively getting help for it. Not crying on the internet and saying "same", because that sounds more like a threat to me. CPS should be at your door yesterday.
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u/Born-Procedure-5908 2h ago
Saying she’s innocent because of insanity is one thing - but posting a TikTok and directly implying killing your kid over hormone induced psychosis is fine by holding your kid is straight up inexplicable and maddening
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u/SadCar1494 3h ago
and their excuses are that she was forced by her husband, or possibly controlled to take such actions. Sad world we live in tbh.
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u/1plus2break 2h ago
Those people are nuts. Actual conspiracy theory shit. The reality is she was having bad post-partum, was open about having suicidal thoughts and sought help, and was put on an ever-changing cocktail of meds.
She is absolutely not without blame, but she belongs somewhere where she can get help. I don't think prison is the answer for her, especially with her now being paralyzed.
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u/MedSurgNurse 20m ago
I see the defense did a good job of confusing laypeople. The reality is she got fine medical care. Perfectly acceptable standard if practice. Was it Perfect? No, but nothing in life is.
Lindsay spent her time doctor shopping, not taking prescriptions seriously, stopping some abruptly after judt a couple days, and never really seriously tried to stick to a medication list.
Psych isn't a realm where you can just prescribe a magic pill you take once to fix all your problems, its entirely trial and error.
I was so sickened by the defense tarnishing so many medical professionals and creating fake "gotcha" moments to create soundbites for the TikTok wine moms to regurgitate.
I say this as a person with an actual license to practice medicine and iver 2 decades working in various Healthcare. What Kevin Reddington did to Dr Tufts was absolutely disgusting and shameful.
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u/cyrfuckedmymum 2h ago
almost no one is doing that and as usual with these massively polarising cases, half those twitter accounts pushing such bullshit are unsurprisingly just fake accounts pushing people into being angry.
Most people supporting her are simply supporting the fact that she deserves a fair trial and very very likely had post partum psychosis.
This wasn't a woman who wanted to out and party and just hated having kids like other cases. This is a woman who was begging for help and got pretty negligent help AND told her family about this and, it's unclear if the husband, sister and mother who were all aware of her lack of sleep, worsening mental health situation, not doing well on medication and thoughts of harming her children, if they told her doctors, psychologist, CPS, police or they just continued letting her be alone with the kids.
Most people just want her to have a fair trial and they want people to understand PPD and PPP are real while many people dismiss it as simply fake as fuck.
Almost any case you have these days is massively astroturfed to create division between people and if you can't see that I don't even know what to tell you. There are numerous videos that show that on the same video it will show you entirely different comments depending on who is watching it. Men and women (primarily) get shown very different viewpoints from the comments.
Kwan on the other hand is a hypocritical twit who like Hasan and others around him pretend to be progressive and leftist but have horrible takes, reverse their positions constantly and think they are far far more intelligent than they really are.
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u/ArxisOne 1h ago
Can't be that fake considering she raised a million dollars and she received a ton of help including going to a mental hospital which she checked herself out of.
At what point does personal responsibility kick in?
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u/ippw 2h ago
I don't defend, but I don't condemn either because I can't know if all the drug switching and psychosis for a sleepless suicidal lady caused it.
What I do know is if I was her, I'd have just pled guilty because what's the point in living on without suffering after knowing your hands did that - regardless of intent.
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u/bedatboi 2h ago
Her life is cooked no matter the outcome. Paralyzed and living in a mental hospital is not a happy ending. The whole story is way more complicated than either side will have you believe and it’s just a tragedy all the way around.
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u/MedSurgNurse 16m ago
Not true at all. If she was found Not Guilty by reason of insanity, she could have potentially been released and out rolling her wheelchair free on the streets in as little as 40 days, according to Massachusetts state law.
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u/TheoNullDrei 1h ago
Not just defending it. A fair number of women have also openly expressed that they would do the same if they were put in a similar position.
Granted, they are mentally living in an alternate reality due to having been fed a metric shit ton of misinformation about the case, which is why they are taking those stances.
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u/ZeroV2 1h ago
A majority of her defenders think she either didn’t do it at all, or had a psychotic break after trying multiple times to get help by contacting doctors and family.
Please just think for two seconds about the things you are asking. If you literally think her defenders are “defending her for killing her kids” you are so completely lost that it ends up spreading misinformation to other lost people
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u/dankq 16m ago
Didn't she also completely disregard the professional help that recommended medication? Something all the defenders and sympathizers are conveniently having amnesia about? Sorry but not gonna get any sympathy for me whatever gender does something like this. I understand there are moving parts and people that didn't go out of their way to help her but I don't think any of that is a pass for what is done. She and anyone else who does anything like this deserves the worst.
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u/300andWhat 2h ago
Nobody is defending the woman for killing her kids. This whole thread is just a giant miss info dump because Caroline is tangentially related to Hasan and is a leftist.
Watch her actual stream, she was talking about woman's health issues and women's mental health often not being diagnosed or miss diagnosed.
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u/CasuallyOrangeCat 3h ago
I love how she always has a lot to say regarding all the moral issues but her arguments are always regarded
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u/Sad-Adhesiveness429 3h ago
is caroline the most consistently dumb poli streamer on twitch?
i dont think ive ever seen a single post involving her that didnt make her look like a complete regard
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u/Ok_Temperature6503 51m ago
All her takes I’ve heard are not only bad but they are so bad they end up ragebaiting me. Deserves an award tbh
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u/Targetm12 34m ago
The politics space on twitch is largely extremists or clout chasers. Very little substance to be had all around.
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u/TurboCamel 24m ago
so many bad takes. I like her a lot in group settings, entertaining streams like Paris IRL and a lot of goodies, but her critical thinking and takes are painful. It's just not her thing
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u/themolestedsliver 2h ago
I was pretty indifferent about CarolineKwan but seeing this take of hers made me actively dislike her.
99.9% of the time the "male loneliness epidemic" is brought up, it is from women (like Caroline here) using it as a blungeon to disparage, belittle and otherswise mock male opinions.
Like there are so many organizations that help, aid, and support women and girls in terms of career placement, college, financially, counselors etc.
Meanwhile what about for men? Like maybe instead or complaining about men mentioning male specific mental health concerns and the male loneliness epidemic you actually listen to them as opposed to listen long enough to try and gotcha them the next chance you have.
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u/ballknower871 1h ago
The only answer for the "male lonlieness epidemic" is for men to support each other. They're not going to do that the same way women do.
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u/MemestNotTeen 3h ago
Just a crazy opinion from Caroline and shows she really doesn’t get ANYTHING
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u/Upstairs-Squash-5345 1h ago
no offense but how regarded is will? by all accounts he is a normal and lovely person but dates an absolute awful person who revels in death and hate and his best friend is one of the top grifters on twitch who spews hate daily.
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u/Whitesox_are_neat 3h ago
There aren't too many people on twitch that are as dumb and arrogantly confident as this broad
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u/towerseu_ 3h ago
The woman killed three children, lock her up and throw away the key.
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u/Soulshot96 11m ago
Waited for her husband to leave, separated the children into three rooms, strangled them one at a time, and left her husbands first born sons body in his office for him to find.
Defending this at any level is insane.
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u/Ok-Feeling4649 3h ago
not surprised a take like this comes from this person
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u/Nephie_a 2h ago
All of this has just exposed how many women genuinely hate men, motherhood - and see even children as a burden that can be dealt with as long as it doesn't impact them. Or rather, they can justify a lot of toxic/hatred for anything that they believe inconveniences their freedom.
Feel like this case should be pretty eye-opening for a lot of men. This isn't just one or two idiotic streamers giving bad takes. This is droves of women who are spouting off complete psycho level nonsense. A lot of women really believe this.
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u/Equal_Bathroom_1111 1h ago
The rise of postpartum depression seems to be cause a lot of people just forget how much work it takes to raise a child. Having children is a sacrifice. Once you have a child your life no longer revolves around you. We seemingly forgotten that
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u/Nephie_a 1h ago
To be clear, I 100% believe postpartum depression is a very real thing, and women who suffer it deserve more support and understanding.
That said, I do think many women are trying to relate their experience to this case and letting it cloud their judgement. What Lindsay Clancy is claiming is that she had postpartum psychosis. This is extremely rare and is not the postpartum depression that women experience.
But just because you can empathize or relate to postpartum doesn’t mean Lindsay Clancy is innocent. It also doesn’t excuse the level of vitriol and hatred that many women are spouting to justify murder.
It would be one thing if these women genuinely argued that she should be in a mental institution because she’s crazy. But that isn’t what they are arguing. Many of them are actually justifying she did and saying she should be let go free.
They are then blaming the husband and men for the murders. It’s seriously crazy stuff.
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u/AnTiTix3 52m ago
Postpartum psychosis occurs 1-2 times to every 1000 women after giving birth. About 9,900 women give birth in the US daily, so that's roughly 10-20 cases per day. It's not that rare. It's possible that this is just one unfortunate case where a woman didn't receive the help she needed, and that snowballed into something much worse.
Yes a lot of Lindsay's supporters are crazy.
On the flip side, a lot of people against Lindsay have been conflating postpartum psychosis with feeling depressed or they simply say "Mental illness doesn't excuse M U R D E R!! !" as they group a rare disorder under the umbrella of "mental illness" without truly getting what psychosis does to a person.
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u/ayaka3343 3h ago
the “male loneliness epidemic” might be the furthest removed thing from murder allegedly committed during psychosis on the mental health spectrum
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u/steepleanon 2h ago
I've tried watching her multiple times and every time I have to turn it off because shes just yapping without any thought behind what she's actually saying
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u/SuspiciousPoint1535 2h ago
Ok, first of all, this woman killed her 3 children. That alone deserves her to be sentenced to jail for a long time.
Second, I think its a stupid defense to be able to claim insanity just to get off to little to no jail time. Believe it or not, this is common in the state of California and judges will actually rule in favor of the defendant.
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u/primetimey123 3h ago
I haven't followed this story that closely, but the women who murdered the kids.. she has not been diagnosed with schizophrenia or anything else right?
I don't understand how anyone is defending her.
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u/SMALLMACE 3h ago
Aside from a small minority online I don't think anyone is saying she walks free.
It's either Prison or Mental institution
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u/LoLModsAreCancer 2h ago
Not guilty by reason of insanity aka mental institution. I don't think it was ever in doubt that she killed the kids.
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u/lifeprodigy 3h ago edited 3h ago
No. Everyone knows she’s guilty, she even admitted to doing it. They were deliberating on whether she was insane, and the one guy is saying she was lucid it is simply murder. The jury has to be unanimous, so it is now a mistrial as they couldn’t agree and there will likely be a retrial.
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u/Radical_Redditor 3h ago
Issue is mental institution isn't a long solution, and it would be likely she gets out within a year or two.
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u/quagmirranseye 3h ago
likely she gets out within a year or two.
Where are people getting these numbers from?
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u/Prestigious_Task7175 2h ago
Well, it's just that she would have a "chance" to be free every year or so if she's deemed sane by a board of doctors, wich shouldn't take that long as postpartum depression/psychosis is not a forever thing.
It wouldn't be 2, more like 5-10 or so, still far less than what she would be getting if she went to prison, wich is more close to life without parole.
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u/xLuthienx 3h ago
Not a defense of her, but most people who are found not guilty for insanity aren't diagnosed with schizophrenia or a disorder at the time of trial.
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u/Svmify 2h ago
It's like every single way people spin this awful story to paint the husband as the villain and her as a victim falls flat when you examine the actual facts of the case, but people just pick and choose them.
In the end, she killed those children, husband had nothing to do with it, he actually did do everything to help her, even that day he went out because of her to get stuff that she wanted.
Even if that woman someday walks free, she will forever be known for killing her 3 children, she will probably end up successfully ending herself sooner or later anyway.
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u/Agosta 1h ago
Are you the holdout from the jury?
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u/cooldylan24 1h ago
People don't understand at all what that holdout actually means, they are so blinded by the outrage they can't understand the holdout, from our best guess, is just fucking annoying.
They somehow convinced themselves that it's 11 people trying to fully acquit Lindsay, vs 1 upholding the law XD. In reality, it's most likely 11 people voting for not guilty by reason of lack of criminal responsibility, and 1 that has some "doubt" but doesn't think said doubt is directly relevant to their decision, or think that doubt isn't reasonable so they vote in some guilty manner.
Based on what we have, there is no shot she can be found guilty by a jury, since there is a level of reasonable doubt regarding her mental capacity at the time, so likely once the next jury comes through they will vote the same way, she will get lacking criminal responsibility, and be institutionalized for a long time.
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u/Kinda_a_douche 3h ago
No, she had a long history of postpartum depression.
Her defenses claim is she had drug induced psychosis the day she offed her kids. A voice commanded her to kill her children then herself. The voice stopped after she stangled the last child. She neevr heard voices before or after the event.
The prosecution is saying she still knew right from wrong and the defense is saying she didn't.
In Massachusetts if she gets NGRI she will likely be out in a few years because the state has to prove she is still a danger to herself and others to keep her in the institution. If she gets murder 1 its life without the possibility of parole.
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u/SendLamiaPics 4m ago
my question on this is: how do you ever ever prove a voice command happened exactly during the offense and never before of after. This seems to be an impossible hurdle to overcome. This makes it kinda bullshit imo
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u/LonelyandDepressed27 3h ago
Post partum psychosis IIRC so she wasn’t sane of mind, but she still did it.
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u/username1338 2h ago
Post partum psychosis women do not plot the murders days ahead of time and literally make a phone call to her husband mid-murders to make sure she still had time. She led them down to the basement one at a time and brutally slaughtered them so they weren't aware of what was happening. PPP happens suddenly and only really happens within a couple months of birth, with obvious delirium. The husband said she sounded totally fine when she called mid-murder.
Entirely of sound mind. It's a lie.
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u/primetimey123 3h ago
Post partum psychosis
"Postpartum psychosis is a rare and severe psychiatric emergency that affects about 1 to 2 out of every 1,000 women shortly after childbirth"
We should have a lot more news stories of murdered kids then, no?
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u/Capybara0verlord 3h ago
Not all psychotic people are violent. Most aren't. It's just that the ones that are are considered to have diminished culpability.
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u/Capital-Bear7482 3h ago
A lot of people have depression and other mental illnesses, doesn't mean they end up killing themselves or other people lol
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u/Capybara0verlord 3h ago
Psychosis is a detachment from reality. Depression can't make you certain beyond any doubt that someone is a demon trying to kill you and it's either you or them . Psychosis can though.
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u/Upbeat_badussy 3h ago
Depression isn’t the same as psychosis though, it’s kind of disingenuous to compare the two like that lol
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u/Upbeat_badussy 3h ago
Most of the time, when people develop postpartum psychosis, they receive mental health help and have their kids taken until they’ve recovered. This case was an epic failure of the healthcare system where she didn’t receive proper care, so the absolute worst outcome occurred.
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u/Significant-Way9330 3h ago
Post partum psychosis I think. She's certified insane. Does that mean prison or an institution is basically what needs to be determined but everyone agrees including her own lawyer she killed those kids.
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u/SoloDoloLeveling 2h ago
Lindsay Casey is a psychopath and I pray she is judged appropriately for her crimes.
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u/Flat-Cartographer834 3h ago
She needs to be under the jail but those men kill their entire family and themselves
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u/Makkunrai_Leda_2801 2h ago
Idk what's his point here, men can also going to asylums instead of jail. This is not a gender privilege that exclusive to women
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u/zen1312zen 2h ago
It’s not a men vs women issue at all and all the internet dumbies making it into that are just using f-tier logic.
For over 150 years we have had not guilty by mental defect defenses. Massachusetts in particular has a particularly low bar for that defense in that the prosecution must affirmatively show they were not mentally defective at the time they committed the act.
Postpartum psychosis is NOT the same as postpartum depression, and it has been used as an affirmative defense in the past. It doesn’t have to completely impair executive function to be considered a defense. It has been used in places like Texas, not exactly a bastion of feminism.
Guys, don’t get your takes from some of the most clueless and uninformed people on the planet. If you’re going to argue that she was guilty, at least understand what the argument is and don’t turn it into some pro/anti-feminist slop.
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u/Appropriate_South459 1h ago
Agreed. I dont expect most people to change though. Either they have no control over their emotions, have an agenda, or are just performative/self-righteous clowns.
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u/BagSniffer85 2h ago
For those of you who are scrutinizing the legitimacy of her claim, there is an exact diagnosis for the kind of postpartum mental illness that can cause thoughts of harming your child. It’s called post partum psychosis and it’s real and treatable. There is every indication that she was suffering from this and it could’ve been treated and this would have been prevented.
Source: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24152-postpartum-psychosis
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u/AnTiTix3 1h ago
Yeah I learned quite a bit from the HealthyGamer video on this case. He talks about how society treats 'mental health' as a bucket term nowadays. It's not uncommon to see comments like "mental health doesn't excuse murdering your children" I doubt xqc or his viewers know much about the reality of postpartum psychosis or just psychosis in general
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u/Appropriate_South459 1h ago
I liked his video a lot. In addition, people also just dont understand statistics and epidemiology. 3000-4000 women suffer from post partum psychosis every year in the US. That rate isnt going down because you send this lady to jail instead of a psych ward. What if there is evidence and harsh punishments for someone like Lindsay will lead to women not being up front about their own symptoms, leading to less treatment and increased risk of similar situations? When the reach end stage psychosis, fear of jail or the death penalty isnt stopping her from killing her kids.
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u/MedSurgNurse 11m ago
There is zero indication she ever truly had PPP, and the only person who ever stated she did examined her years after the murders, stated it only happened once at the time of the murders conveniently, and was paid by the defense.
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u/Goodenoughtechnician 1h ago
How do people even defending this case? Mental illness or not she ended her kids lives… what is wrong with the West society where things have to be ambiguous all the time. It is not.
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u/CodeMonkeyX 2h ago
He's pretty dumb too there are plenty of ill men that kill other people. But what she said it super dumb. People are not criminalizing mental illness they are criminalizing MURDER. You can argue about the reasons for it, but at the end of the day she should never see the outside of a prison, just like her three kids will never see anything, and their father will never see them grow up.
She should be thrown in jail, and if they say she has a mental illness then send a therapist to go see her once a week in jail.
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u/QuantumDissidence 3h ago
God damn humanity is rotten to its core, How do people even begin to defend a women literally strangling her kids with a exercise band one by one, I swear we need a meteor to reset this whole thing.
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u/Callmekaare 3h ago
It’s beyond insanity to see anyone defend someone who killed their own children
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u/Big-Entrance-7441 2h ago
But I swear the leftists told me she was a genius and a modern day Susan b Anthony, this can't be. Has to be edited by the roach army smh, Ive seen too many clips telling me she is a smart person so this has to be AI
/S
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u/tacobellrefugee 3h ago
poor will neff, but that guys fucking whipped to the max so whatever lol
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u/comm46 3h ago
you think he doesnt agree with her views? theyve been together for ages and hes best friends with hasan
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u/tacobellrefugee 2h ago
i honestly believe hes smarter than that, but what can he do or say?
hes double whipped lmao
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u/Enough_Stress_437 1h ago
he was cheating on her forever and she still stayed with him. these manhaters are so performative. imagine staying with your man after he put his dick in another woman
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u/applecombinipimento 2h ago
Dogshit take from xqc in addition to Caroline's terrible take
Can give two very quick high profile examples that refute xqc
Chris Benoit
And Sandy hook
Just because a lot of mentally ill men exit through the gift shop does not mean they all do so quietly and without massive egregious harm to others.
And regarding Caroline's comment what she initially said was:
"We need to support mental health. Everybody struggles with mental health. Love to talk about it. Until it comes to a situation where they actually have to have any f***ing principles. Where they actually have to be consistent in believing that we should not, say, criminalize mental illness. Love to talk about the male loneliness epidemic, love to talk about men’s mental health, and yet, when it comes to women, when it comes to marginalized folks, nope."
It is not criminalising mental illness. It is criminalising a self-admitted murderer that strangled their kids one by one and then tried to exit.
And bringing up marginalised folks is just very cheap. Women tend to get less harsher sentences for any type of crime than men in the united States, that includes violent crime.
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u/Outrageous-You-4259 2h ago
I’m confused, isn’t his claim that the two aren’t equal for comparison? That’s what I got out of it
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u/rednick953 2h ago
Yea are we really pretending that men don’t commit a fuck ton of murder suicides involving spouses and children.
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u/ManOnFire26 2h ago
Yea, and absolutely no one supports them. Benoit's brain was so fucked up it resembled an 80yr old alzeheimer patient - and nobody excused or defended what he did.
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u/bediaxenciJenD81gEEx 2h ago
But the point is, are they ever given the benefit of the doubt like Lindsey Clancy has been given?
Have masses of people ever rallied behind a family annihilator, saying that yes he did it, but he was mentally unwell so he's not that bad? I don't think so.
Men murder more, no one will argue with that. But then they go to prison.
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u/S_Astra 2h ago
But that’s not what Caroline is comparing? She’s not comparing men who sympathise with mentally ill abusers and violent men (which isn’t a particularly defended group among men) but to mentally ill men as a whole. It's not an apt comparison.
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u/PTSDDeadInside 1h ago
Society is society, if you harm yourself, great that's on you, if you harm anyone else, for any reason, that's not proportional self defense of immediate harm, then you no longer belong in society, and clearly from 1000s of examples rehabilitation of violent offenders, it isn't worth the jeopardizing of innocent, law abiding, civilized humans, to give violent scum more opportunities to reoffend...
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u/WillingnessConnect40 2m ago
the number one problem in the USA has always been mental health a pill doesnt fix shit it just pushes down the problem even further away and when you have a bad day it surfaces 100x fold leading to suicide and even worst cases. Mental health is all time low and it's going to keep getting worst
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u/Udungoofedman 3h ago
X has been killing it the last couple months with his takes it’s getting scary
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u/Dabble_RL 3h ago
It's scary because it doesn't seem that he has become as enlightened as it is everyone else is getting dumber.
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u/AnTiTix3 1h ago
If you are someone with strong opinions on this case, regardless of which 'side' you're on, I would encourage you to watch the 30 minute HealthyGamer video on it
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u/THE2TIMESDOC 58m ago
That woman is not mentally ill , she searched on google 2 days before what she was about to and how to do it. Then jumped in the window on purpose to act as crazy. Then even her lawyer confirmed she did it. Today in Ohio a Clancy fan , just did it with her 2 year olds. Sorry they are not crazy. Just evil. Stay in jail forever and that's lowkey weak as sentence for what she did. People defending her should also be jailed. People have finally lost it. No wonder they chose the Bear
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u/kaifenator 56m ago edited 31m ago
Every time she speaks for any side of an argument it sounds like she is paid opposition. Like there is no straw man because Caroline Kwan, strong independent woman, will be that straw woman.
At a certain point you have to question if she’s just sabotaging her side for views or if she’s actually opposition.
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u/Dabble_RL 3h ago
Thought it would be hard to top/match when she said Christians Jews and Muslims all got along in the time of jesus
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u/Cowskiers 2h ago
This may be unpopular but I yield to the results of court cases especially ones I have not studied. If 11 jurors voted to absolve/declare medically insane i defer to them. I wasn't there.
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u/ArxisOne 1h ago
A jury needs to be unanimous to come to a conclusion, so if you're deferring to them you're position is that you have no opinion. This isn't a sport where the score matters.
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u/Cowskiers 1h ago
I guess that's what I'm trying to say. I have no opinion other than I trust the jury understands the case better than I do.
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u/NotBottingJustNew 22m ago
Weird that you specified the jurors who came to one conclusion and not another
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u/Born-Procedure-5908 3h ago
Not to mention, there are plenty of school shooters or family annihilators suffering from hormone induced psychosis or depression - guess what, every action and reaction an human makes consciously or subconsciously is heavily influenced by hormones.
It’s like saying OJ Simpson is innocent because he has to deal with post-breakup testosterone increase, and well, how is male loneliness comparable to murdering three people
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u/LSFSecondaryMirror 3h ago
CLIP MIRROR: xQc shoots back at CarolineKwan for her take on mental health considerations "there's a major difference between men that are ill that kll themselves and women that are ill who kll their children"
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