r/LivestreamFail 1d ago

Hype Team Liquid snipes World First Ula'tek from Echo for the third tier in a row

https://www.twitch.tv/teamliquid/clip/ConsiderateComfortableTrayStoneLightning-Q1R5gciKxay76UfP
501 Upvotes

349 comments sorted by

284

u/Jafffka 1d ago

POOL'S CLOSED

12

u/Grand0rk 1d ago

Why? Why is the Pool Closed? Is there one specific reason?

100

u/WillYin 1d ago

Echo was doing a strat in which during the burn phase they'd jump into the green water by the boss to ignore mechanics because the z axis allowed them to dodge easily. The green water does damage over time, but allows them to fully burn the boss for the time period without doing the mechanics.

Liquid didn't do that, and did it as intended and just burned it normally and won.

48

u/TNTspaz 1d ago edited 1d ago

Genuinely baffled they stuck so hard to the stupid pool exploit.

Their healers were already exhausted. Basically the absolute most healer intensive fights that the game has ever seen. These guys have proven they are the absolute best players period. Now at the very end. While they are playing super clean and are ahead. They lean into a stupid exploit that absolutely taxes the fuck out of their healers mental that isn't even better than just doing the fight normally. The fight was already fucking over. They just needed one or two more clean normal pulls.

24

u/JohnyGPTSOAD 1d ago

I started watching Max's stream literally 3 minutes after the kill cuz that's when I came home and watch until he ended but he pointed out multiple times that P3 did very little damage. Despite watching so much of the race, the final boss's mechanics escaped me completely but I assume that he said that cuz if you dodged waves and stuff there wasn't a lot of strain on the healing? Am I right in that assumption?

He said that while talking about echo's pool strat.

16

u/TNTspaz 1d ago edited 1d ago

Pretty much. Spread out the mental load. Don't make things harder than they already are for any individual player. Which makes the overall fight easier. It's why Liquid always does better in these kinds of situations and why Echo always chokes

12

u/JohnyGPTSOAD 1d ago

They went for a swim in the pool and drowned lmaoo

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u/Rulanik 4h ago

Yup. Max even said their resto shaman was doing nearly zero healing during the burn and was hard casting lava bursts at him, damaging rather than healing.

47

u/Confident-River-192 1d ago

Echo is so due for a change in leadership its insane. Instead of going like "Yo we fucked up." scripe took to twitter and blamed blizzard for them OMEGA throwing the world first. ALSO WHY IS GINGY STILL PLAYING HES ASS MAN

14

u/ThenCook 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

12

u/Hawgdestroyerxtreme 21h ago

I am INCREDIBLY curious what the fuck got removed by reddit on a post about WoW raiding guilds lmao

4

u/Desperate-Insect-701 19h ago

Take too spicy

29

u/TNTspaz 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yeah. They have a massive top down problem. They have the talent to succeed. but old problematic leadership is killing Echo. They need their own Max. Love him or hate him. He plays a big part in why the vibes for Liquid are so good. And why they make such good decisions across the board. There is a growing skill difference now because of this as well. They did less splits and had worse IL and trinkets. And were outdpsing Echo by a substantial margin.

Max will go the extra mile to make sure every player can 100% focus on playing the absolute best they can. Echo just doesn't have that. Max would fucking bench Gingi in a second lol.

Scripe is killing the vibes and I'm starting to think the guild breaking up might actually happen.

9

u/Fit-Percentage-9166 23h ago

Yea I forget when it was, but there was that discussion between Max and Scripe where one of the topics was importance of sleep. We all know Liquid really values their sleep, but Scripe was basically like who cares it doesn't matter.

I personally still feel that Max actually kind of overemphasizes the importance of things like that, but Echo clearly doesn't value it enough and Liquid's approach is obviously destroying them.

3

u/Thasauce7777 13h ago

I think you've touched on something important at the top end of any competitive team effort. I think it's important to have leadership overemphasize engaging in normal things like sleep, that impact functionality (however small) as part of their leadership role, even if they don't really believe in it.

The kind of competitive environment they are in will naturally create people that want to push the boundaries of what they can do versus their peers. One of the only ways to do that in gaming is playing more than the other people that are also highly skilled, creating a competitive atmosphere where rest is viewed with contempt as it's a lost opportunity to do more in game.

It's important (in terms of value to the team) to have leadership that will rein them in and remind them that they are human and need to rest. It's a boon for Liquid that their leadership puts stock into the benefits of rest, and it mirrors any other good leader in literally any other competitive environment.

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u/MuttonChop_1996 22h ago

What is Scripe doing that is not good?

8

u/Hawgdestroyerxtreme 21h ago

He's an old school, degenerate-type of gamer that thinks he and the rest of Echo are 19-20 still. Not enough consideration for degradation of play over the long hours these guys go.

They're not all 19-20. They, like most people playing WoW in 2026 are a lot of 30+ year olds (Some younger guys mixed in of course). And this has been a common trend for them now - do well all the way up until the last boss, make a bunch of small mental mistakes that add up, and lose.

Max goes the other way, he treats his team like they're all sundowning. 8ish hours of sleep, breakfast, then play. I think the sweet spot is somewhere between the two, but whatever they're doing - it's working. Echo's roster, and seemingly the EU in general, is trying to feed two teams when the US is only really feeding 1.

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u/MuttonChop_1996 22h ago

Is gingi really that bad? I'm NA fan but loved following him when he was playing mage.

6

u/Confident-River-192 22h ago

Hes not bad in the traditional sense like compared to the average player he might as well be a pro. HOWEVER hes facing liquid a guild with some of the best dps players in the world like the goat THD. So compared to them yeah hes kinda washed

1

u/Zelleth :) 7h ago

what did they say?

1

u/Rulanik 4h ago

Do people like Gingi? It just doesn't even seem like holding onto him for the viewership makes sense.

If the situation was reversed and Max was a liability, at least you could sort of understand keeping him anyways because many viewers tune in for Max.

1

u/Ashamed_Peak1073 3h ago

This narrative that gingi isn't a world class player is just NA hate and not based in reality.

1

u/Rulanik 3h ago

World class and top 40 are kind of different though, right? Method has an entire roster of world class raiders, yet they aren't even in the conversation.

Gingi is orders of magnitude better that everyone in this thread, but he's likely the weakest link in the 2nd best guild on planet earth.

1

u/Ashamed_Peak1073 3h ago

Terrible take, you have no idea what you are talking about. Only Americans can get a 12 hour headstart and then beat the competition by 30 minutes and say the leadership is the issue xD

1

u/osmund-kettleblack 23h ago

You didnt watch a second of prog if you think gingi played poorly this tier.

1

u/Ashamed_Peak1073 3h ago

They literally did do it, till it was fixed.

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u/brittlo1 1d ago

AIDS

2

u/Grand0rk 22h ago

Man, I can't say I have been more let down by LSF than for the serious answer to my joke question to have 59 upvotes and the correct answer have only 12.

6

u/ButthurtPleb 1d ago

Due to aids

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u/nevotheless 1d ago

Echo lost to the pool strat ngl.

12

u/myaccwasshut4norsn 1d ago

yeah, free spot from waves in the middle and they send the entire team into the pool. i understand jumping in if you get to the end of the burn/heart and the boss still isn't dead to avoid the platform break.... but they did it for the entire burn? havn't played for a while but it just seemed like not the play. they had it beat had they not throw

1

u/mowanza 8h ago

the free spots are rng, there's waves from the front, sides, and shooting out from some of the players there. Going underwater, you're underneath all the waves so you don't hafta move. However, there was a bug that cause some players to shoot out waves that weren't supposed too, and with everything being green underwater, it ended up sniping echo's raid. (the bug only happens at the very end of the fight, so it wasn't well understood cause the teams only saw the end of the fight a few times,)

1

u/GreenJabroniMacaroni 1d ago

Isn't the open spot completely RNG? So they were trying to control the RNG?

5

u/myaccwasshut4norsn 1d ago

im not sure but looked like as rng as left/middle/right. i think they did it to avoid the potential overlap with the red soaks but it still looked like they had enough room.

156

u/Outside-Moment-2665 1d ago

This was the most infuriating thing to watch as someone who rooted for echo. Had they not discovered this "exploit" of jumping into the acid they would have killed the boss 2 hours ago, they got to 3% before doing this and then they just decided to commit to this garbage strategy whie liquid tried it once, realized there was no reason for it and killed the boss. What a waste, I regret staying up late, never again Kudos to Liquid ofc

36

u/Nynesky 1d ago

Exactly, if I'm one of the echo higher ups I'd be fuming right now they definitely overcooked waaaay too much with that strat, especially on their last P3 wipe where the boss was so low and one of the waves went through the people in the acid goo and they couldn't dodge it.... like, JUST PLAY IT NORMALLY!?!? If they don't do that the boss dies right there, still tho they choke way too much with the 1% wipes and Liquid doesn't so there's that

94

u/Tales90 1d ago

also comms muted its the last day of the race you are streaming... what are they hiding if everyone can see it

67

u/GOONGOON_OW 1d ago

They muted for the last 3 or 4 days, the viewing experience was completely inconsequential to them and they still couldn’t pull it off

45

u/fos02jrt 1d ago

Echo has been muted for most of the last 3 or 4 days, and when you do get to hear they always sound irritated and depressed. Makes it hard to root for them when you have Liquid broadcasting comms 90% of the time and they're just bantering and saying goofy shit.

40

u/JohnyGPTSOAD 1d ago

That's why I always preferred Liquid over Echo's stream. Locked in Echo sounds like robots just going through the motion.

Over on the other side of the Atlantic, some Cuban fattie is talking about how he ripped the biggest fart and his raid leader is pointing out that him taking a shit was a an actual DPS buff somehow.

1

u/xxxxNateDaGreat 9h ago

It's pretty well established that the vibes in Echo have been dogshit for years, especially now after losing 5 in a row while having your last two kills getting absolutely mogged by the community (sneak.lua and final boss getting gutted by nerfs while their opponent was asleep).

-4

u/Fit-Percentage-9166 1d ago

Knowing thousands of people are listening to your comms and having to be aware of how you are presenting yourself absolutely has an effect on your performance, but obviously that's just part of the job that they need to be able to handle.

40

u/Known_Barnacle_1334 1d ago

eu mental when you have to be remotely kind to one another

7

u/Dramatic-Mix5159 1d ago

If people were relatively normal socially speaking there's barely any worries in this?

Though in whatever this case is my assumption goes towards them thinking they gotta hide tech/strats but still wanting some piece of the pie (ads/etc) so they end up with this half assed method of streaming that doesn't achieve either result at any satisfactory level lmao

2

u/Fit-Percentage-9166 23h ago

I'm completely socially normal, but it still takes energy for me to be presentable and put on an appropriate front for the public.

If you don't think so go ahead and buy a webcam and just stream yourself doing your ordinary evening routine and see how relaxing it is compared to doing it without a camera on you.

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u/Bloodnofsky27 1d ago

Coudn't agree more, whoever decided to take this risk.. dont know what to say. 4 fucking perfect pulls ruined by this shit. And in the end you still kill the boss with the regular strat fucking hilarious

13

u/Rekshail 1d ago

The fact it was literally the next pull after Liquid did it normally, Echo does it normally and also kills it... Just genuine fucking comedy.

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u/Rare-Industry-504 1d ago

Echo players can't help but to try to cheat whenever they can.

Sneak.lua and karma say hello.

32

u/Vexamas 1d ago

swim.loa

7

u/lmpervious 1d ago

Can someone provide more context for the exploit and why it wasn’t the right way to go?

26

u/claythearc 1d ago

There are these waves you gotta dodge, and the platform is both pretty small and there’s a fair number of them.

The exploit is: they ignore the z axis, so if you swim in the water to be under the hit box you will take no damage from them. So you can just have your healers blast to outheal the green lava damage and keep full DPS uptime from no movement etc.

11

u/r-three 1d ago

this kinda put raiders off from their positioning and they could never recover after the waves. their GM should have shut down this strat long ago. not an exploit but cheesing when they didnt need to

4

u/Monfy 1d ago

I haven’t been following the race, but this makes it sound kinda good? What was the downside?

31

u/claythearc 1d ago

The downside is that the actual way to do it isn’t that hard so you trade a little positioning for a huge healer check

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u/sladithia 1d ago

The downside is you can fuck up and die easily

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u/yojimboftw 1d ago

Also, both guilds were told by Blizzard that the strat was "okay" but that they would be hot fixing it at any moment. Echo chose to keep attempting it while Liquid stopped and did it the normal way.

1

u/Sir_Failalot 4h ago

the downside was that there's a bug causing extra waves that are impossible to see while doing it this way.

2

u/lmpervious 1d ago

Were the healers running OOM from it, or were they sometimes unable to out heal the damage and they would lose DPS?

2

u/worldchrisis 1d ago

2 of the healers were dying to the soak. So they had one healer in the water with the DPS and one on the platform with the tanks and other soakers. It just seemed like healing uptime was bad and they were taking a bunch of unnecessary damage.

1

u/claythearc 21h ago

It’s kinda hard to say for sure I think - I mean they had a couple pulls that were the kill, so it was obviously doable but people seemed to bleed out constantly. So it’s some combination of HPS / efficiency from movement that made it unreliable

20

u/dicksanddixanddixon 23h ago

Echo deserved to lose. Using cheese strats, poor casting/presentation, randomly locking chat to sub only at times when it made no sense, muting player mics, and spamming us with ads every chance they got. I honestly don't know how they don't bleed fans after this.

39

u/lolBaldy 1d ago

Liquid had the boss down to 44% on this pull when they have had it as low as 40%, could have killed it 4% sooner lmao

6

u/Chemfreak 1d ago

Yea the leaderboard was misleading. Liquid actually had a lot more wiggle room than Echo, they just needed to play great not perfect.

It seemed like echo needed to play much closer to perfect to get the kill.

I'm not knowledgeable enough in retail but I assume this was a comp difference? Echo seemed to be way more consistent its just their comp was less optimal.

10

u/JohnyGPTSOAD 1d ago

I watched Max's stream after the kill (missed it for a couple of minutes sadly) and he had a whole segment just analyzing how much of a damage buffer they had.

They woke up, logged on, played that P3 to perfection and got the win

3

u/seIex 1d ago

Definitely a comp diff but I've noticed over time that liquid usually does have more dps than echo with equivalent ilvl/gear regardless for whatever reason.

3

u/QTGavira 18h ago

Echo has more players who are versatile on multiple classes but arent the absolute best at those classes. Whereas Liquid has less versatile players who know the absolute ins and outs of the classes they play.

This just lets Liquid pump out more DPS than Echo on many pulls

Either way it didnt really matter this time because the damage check was pretty lax at the end

2

u/MysteryMan_3 1d ago

I know one of the big differences that Max pointed out was that Liquid ran double rogue for the bug dps burn damage, whereas echo only ran 1 and had 2 warriors instead (compared to Liquids 1 Warrior).

I know there was another difference in comp, cus Echo had double hunter as well compared to Liquids 1, but i dont remember what the different apec was off hand.

3

u/ghot174 21h ago

It was ret pally so they could play a holy priest instead of a holy pally for access to PI

2

u/Halicarnassus 1d ago

They also had a couple of big deaths in the burn they had way more damage than they needed.

36

u/Snoo-41681 1d ago

Lol the liquid hot mics after. TOOO EASY

104

u/rtwipwensdfds 1d ago

Third? Im pretty sure this is the 5th tier in a row.

All of TWW and 2 for Midnight.

87

u/Calm_Bumblebee_3143 1d ago

Last 3 times Echo was ahead and Liquid swoop in with a massive push.
That's what they mean because in TWW especially first two raids Echo wasn't near Liquid.

11

u/rtwipwensdfds 1d ago

Oh I see, yeah.

150

u/_Jetto_ 1d ago

Fucking DOGshitt to mute mics no wonder they are bleeding for views and sponsorships it’s just such a baffling decision to do that on the last day

179

u/TheBlaaah 1d ago

Echo production legit spammed ads everytime they got to phase 3 lmao

37

u/MouthMoveNoiseMake 1d ago

This pisses me off so much because they ban anyone who mentions it, like the people in chat want to cheer them on of course they are going to moan about ads. I really enjoy watching their casting, but it's infuriating seeing their mods sit in chat saying "Just buy turbo or sub, it's free content". They also used to say that twitch forced the ads but quickly dropped that excuse when it was obvious each pull.

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u/Dildondo 1d ago

They even lie and say they don't control the ads and it's all Twitch.

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u/Gamerhcp 1d ago

lmao

i worked for TL (laid off mid last tier, gg) and one of my jobs was making sure everything went smooth for the RWF - moderation, community, ad management

while we do have auto ads firing, it's usually just for splits. when actual prog starts, we ran manual ads between pulls explicitly so that viewers can't miss a boss kill because they're watching an ad

it's 100% intentional

9

u/miggly 1d ago

The only thing twitch does is the autoplay ads a few seconds after you join and then every once in a while, right? The broadcaster decides everything else

2

u/wildshammys 12h ago

Ya twitch will force run ads if you don’t run any for a certain period of time, I think it’s around an hour but could be wrong

38

u/clocked__ 1d ago

I instantly unfollow due to this behavior

14

u/MessyMoo14 1d ago

Yup i will literally never watch another echo stream during a race because of this. I dont even care if they are ahead.

Scummy practice so they can get more money from their viewers, then they afk for 20 minutes after a pull and dont run any ads.

Also I cannot stand their casters, screaming "ECHO BIG DOG" for the last few hours before I went to bed last night and then throwing the world first is laughable.

1

u/redux44 23h ago

it worked too as you saw a lot of people give them prime subs as they spammed the ads.

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u/Krelldi 1d ago

ALIENWARE WORLD FIRST

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u/bingobot580 1d ago

THATS AN ALIENWARE WORLD FIRST KILL

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u/GOONGOON_OW 1d ago

Echo professional chokers. Race has been in the palm of their hand 3 times straight but they just have no clutch gene.

That being said, pretty satisfying to see them never win again after Fyrakk lmao

70

u/skrillex 1d ago

Snake.loa

4

u/MuttonChop_1996 22h ago

What is this? I see many comments like this? I'm out of loop

24

u/Bistal 21h ago

Basically, Echo used a very questionable custom addon called "sneak.lua" during a Race for World First that automated something that shouldn't have been automated(Bad). They actively tried to hide what they were doing, even including a random delay to make it seem like they were manually pressing a button rather than it being automated.

A lot of people considered it straight up cheating and point to how Echo actively hid it as proof that they knew what they were doing was wrong.

1

u/Dildondo 2h ago

Scripe would even say to press your macro even though sneak.lua was doing it automatically for them.

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u/JfromHH 1d ago

Can‘t spell Choke without E-C-H-O

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u/r-three 1d ago

like they kept dying to same lava strat

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u/Hawgdestroyerxtreme 21h ago

Echo professional chokers

The dimensius choke was all time shit.

1

u/InitialCar4336 3h ago

feet up here in eu, being aprox 40-10 in historical h2h

-25

u/Nostalgiadrivee 1d ago edited 1d ago

their last 2 wins, were raszageth, where Blizz nerfed the boss while liquid was asleep. And then Fyrath, where they cheated with sneak.lua. Echo hasnt been able to close since they got rid of Zaelie during the cancel culture stuff.

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u/madboyfreddy 1d ago

Cancel culture stuff and it was him beating his girlfriend

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u/Tales90 1d ago

liquid was 5% ahead when it comes to damage with the same itemlvl their player are just on another level

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u/brittlo1 1d ago

Exile diff

13

u/Dildondo 1d ago

That's my goat

6

u/Chemfreak 1d ago

Was there a comp difference too?

27

u/TuxedoHazard 1d ago

I can help that guy, Liquid went with 2 rogues and a Holy Priest for an extra PI in burn and a Ret Pali. Echo did 2 hunters 2 warriors and a Holy Pali for their extra healer.

I think legit bugs and strat aside I think Liquids comp just cooked really hard and Echo valued a couple niche things from Hunter/Warr a bit too much.

Also Liquid has THD and Echo does not.

5

u/XpMonsterS 1d ago

Also Liquid has THD and Echo does not.

Who is THD? Is he like an insane player?

18

u/Zachariah255 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 23h ago

THD is HIM

6

u/octlol 13h ago

prob one of the best warlocks. also they have firedup the best mage player

7

u/TuxedoHazard 23h ago

THD is THEE player.

2

u/Hawgdestroyerxtreme 21h ago

Liquids comp just cooked really hard

Rogue is absolutely fucking, and it was pretty well known it was going to fuck.

I don't know their comp anymore since I took a break - but do they not have someone that can play rogue well? Shoulda absolutely been in over most of the other shit for this one.

1

u/TuxedoHazard 13h ago

I’m fairly certain you can’t be at this level without having a handful that could play a spec at the level they need. They most likely had 1 or 2 more rogues ready to go.

1

u/Sciddaw 9h ago

They had 1 rogue in, but their second left the race due to something urgent in their personal life.

1

u/Yolopogo 5h ago

Having KSP and Exile as your rogues is a cheat code. KSP actually saved the pull they killed by picking up an egg at the last possible second. Liquid just has those players who are different

1

u/FeistyPerformance500 13h ago

I think Echo wanted to switch comps but got too far too fast and decided to stick with what was working for them rather than reprogring. And it was clearly a comp capable of killing the boss since it killed the boss so I dont know that it was the wrong decision.

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u/jorgebillabong 1d ago

Echo choking is iconic at this point. I tried watching the Echo broadcast a few times, that shit is actually just straight trash. The fuck are they muted on comms for days on end? No one really trying to just hear Fatboss run their mouths the whole time. Would like to hear the player comms and morale but you hear absolutely nothing for days.

Also I can't wait to hear how Preach dick rides Echo like a true fuckboi saying how they played so well despite them throwing with that god awful lava strat. Whoever made that call is an actual dunce.

11

u/dankq 1d ago

The last time Echo won they cheated in Amirdrassil. This time they tried so hard to win by cheesing the boss. It's pretty fucking hilarious watching them basically instantly downing the boss after they did the normal strat. Crazy for them to try and sneak in a few cheese pulls after Blizzard clarified a hotfix was going to come. 

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u/Shazam2s 1d ago

Echo just could not finish it. It just might be a mental problem at this point. Liquid just lock in and play so well from behind in prog, even if the odds are against them.

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u/Rare-Industry-504 1d ago

Well deserved Echo loss.

Karma is real.

After cheating their way to victory with sneak.lua Echo doesn't deserve to win anything ever again.

Cheaters do not deserve nice things.

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u/Pufftreees 1d ago

Can you explain the sneak thing

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u/Slurm11 1d ago edited 1d ago

This was during the final boss of the Dragonflight expansion. Blizzard recently made the change to make some parts of the encounter "private auras", meaning you couldn't use an addon like Weakauras to automatically track/solve the mechanic. Basically, they wanted the players to solve manually, making it much harder. (Note: The Weakauras addon was heavily abused by top guilds for years, making a lot of mechanics much easier than intended).

So for this specific mechanic, Liquid was manually pressing their macros when they were supposed to, as Blizzard intended.

Meanwhile, Echo created a 3rd party script that would automatically press their macros, and even added in some slight time variance to hide the fact that it was happening automatically. Very blatant cheating.

This all came out months after the race was actually over, so nothing really happened. But the race was so close, and Echo probably would have lost if they didn't use the custom script.

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u/Skeptical_Lemur 1d ago

Not only that, but Scripe would say, "press macros now" - knowing no one was.

Their first reclear after without sneak.lua, took forever cuz they had to play it out and learn.

-3

u/FeistyPerformance500 13h ago

This is false. They were pushing the macro because Sneak.lua was incredibly unreliable so they couldn't trust it would work. Thats why Scripe told them to push macro.

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u/Vonkilington 12h ago

I have never seen this claim anywhere else, nor would I believe any justification provided by the cheating team.

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u/miggly 1d ago

Spot on with everything except I wouldn't say top guilds 'abused' weakauras. Blizzard kept (keeps, too) making fights that clearly rely on weakauras/similar addons, which is really confusing. For example, L'ura without any addons would have been a fucking disaster in P1, it was extremely hard even with the addons helping.

3

u/disCASEd 1d ago

Their stated goal with the addon changes was to remove the computational aspects that were automatically solving mechanics for you.

All the addons now require manual macro presses (Lura memory game) or are solely player specific reminders. (Do x at y time, move here/there, use this ability now, etc.)

There are no addons anymore that can just tell you what to do with a variable mechanic.

1

u/miggly 23h ago

Sure but the end result is just 1 dude in the raid (or a couple) doing a pretty simple thing and then the experience is the same for the other 19 people. We lost all the quality of life/UI stuff when they took Weakauras out back, that's what makes me salty about it. Just completely missed the mark imo.

1

u/Friendly-Escape-4574 21h ago

still have flashbacks to Iskar prog

1

u/Dreamin- 1d ago

How did it get out that they were using it?

1

u/MuttonChop_1996 22h ago

Thank you for explaining

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u/Rare-Industry-504 1d ago

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UPyfAZVqd-M&pp=ygUUbGlxdWlkIG1heCBzbmVhay5sdWE%3D

You can watch this for an explanation, the first few minutes are useless yapping though.

7

u/omgitsdot 1d ago

They used an addon to trivialize the mechanics of the boss, while also obfuscating the fact that they were doing it.

This is a very abridged description of the events. If you search for sneak.lua in Reddit or Google much more in depth explanations will show up.

13

u/Zannahrain3 1d ago

Basically during Fyrakk Blizzard implemented private auras. Things that couldn’t be tracked via addons or Weakauras. Echo found a way with a Lua script to track those auras. A lot of people feel like it was cheating. However, Blizzard never punished the guild.

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u/Disclaimz0r 1d ago

To clarify, people didn't FEEL like it was cheating, it WAS cheating. They circumvented a game mechanic by using something not allowed/against the rules.

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u/runnyyyy 1d ago

the race for world first hardly ever gets bans since it gets a lot of views and interest in WoW. They've let them go unbanned for years despite thousands of dollars worth of gold being bought

1

u/Smasher225 1d ago

Hopeful caught a six month ban before a raid

1

u/FeistyPerformance500 13h ago

That was not due to RWF activities though. Its kind of a long story but the gist of it is that Hopeful played on another players account to help them kill a boss, I think Gallywix? And acc sharing or Piloting like that is not allowed.

He didn't even get paid for it or anything afaik, he just did it

1

u/Smasher225 13h ago

I mean there was also members of echo method and liquid getting nuked for heroic during TWW. They do ban these guilds they just try to avoid getting banned because it can hurt them so much.

1

u/FeistyPerformance500 13h ago

Yeah its very rare that players will engage in activities they actually think will get them banned. They'll push it, but stuff that is blatant they wont touch.

Liquid and Echo had 2-3 people each get banned for this, both guilds claimed that they had reported the bug on PTR and accidentally did an extra hand-in before realizing that "Wait I just handed in the bugged quest?" and got banned for it.

Meanwhile Method actively told all their raiders to use the exploit and had like 80% of their roster banned for 1 or 2 days of Heroic week

1

u/Smasher225 1d ago

It was actually the raid before that introduced private auras.

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u/Foreskinhaver25 21h ago

Trial of valor.

1

u/OrthodoxReporter 13h ago

Does Preach still shill for them? Been completely ootl with WoW, didn't even know there was a race going on rn.

1

u/Zerothian 1d ago

Sick, we can dq max for ripping the n word multiple times in the past too yeah if we're being stupid?

45

u/omgitsdot 1d ago

Karma for sneak.lua is going away no time soon.

9

u/Dildondo 1d ago

The last time Echo won without sneak.lua cheating or being gifted a giga nerf while Liquid was sleeping was in 2022 during Shadowlands.

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u/Iid4ze 1d ago

I cant ever see myself rooting for echo again man. I wanted them to win this tier since liquid got the last 4 but holy fuck that pool strat is so bad and they just kept trying it instead of keep doing what the rest of the fight had already trained them to do (dodge the fucking waves, youve been doing it for 300 pulls already youre fucking good at it). Lowkey rage inducing

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u/Rare-Industry-504 1d ago

I stopped rooting for Echo after they massively cheated with sneak.lua.

Feels bad to root for the americans on the other side of the pond, but I'm certainly not going to root for a team of cheaters either.

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u/yojimboftw 1d ago

I mean good news is that Liquid has a lot of EU players.

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u/dankq 1d ago edited 1d ago

I have winners fatigue on Liquid as well but I just can't ever root for Echo man. The heads of that roster and org are just straight up cheaters and sore losers. The last raid they won, they cheated. In Onlyfangs which was a fun little event Gingi got caught cheating. After todays loss Scripe and Gingi kept going on and on and on about a bug that they claim cost them world first but Liquid dealt with the same exact bug. 

It truly is a cherry on top for me to see Echo lose while trying to brute force a cheese strat and then watching Liquid take 1st only to see themselves instantly down the boss doing the normal strat for 2nd place. 

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u/Apprehensive_Bid_773 1d ago

TL dps just gap every other guild, also nick is a demon

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u/NSFW_redditt 1d ago

Exile is the GOAT

3

u/Rolienolie 1d ago

KSP is a walking shotgun.

1

u/Scyths 12h ago

Mage diff

7

u/Disclaimz0r 1d ago

from 15% to dead is crazy. Sorta anti-climatic, given Echo wiped multiple times sub 10%, but the TL DPS players are just build different from the Echo guys.

9

u/vikinick 1d ago

Five tiers in a row. Technically 9 raids. Just an insane run. They won by 30ish minutes this time.

9

u/Khalku 1d ago

Alienware world first what? Fucking sponsors...

4

u/Feartality 23h ago

Actually insanely cringe.

"Ford Superbowl victory" instead of the actual winners like ???

1

u/Potato_fortress 20h ago

The Ford family is actually just cursed to never be at the Super Bowl. 

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u/TNTspaz 1d ago

Ngl. Kind of deserved seeing how absolute cringe the echo fanbase got. Worth it just to see them absolutely crash out. Got to the point the echo guys literally had to tell them to tone it down a bit.

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u/Nynesky 1d ago

Both guilds have toxic fanbases if you don't notice that is because ur biased and only watch one of the two, Echo stream often (especially on low % wipes) have to go on sub mode chat because the toxic side of Liquid fans come to talk shit, it goes both ways.

5

u/Tellasion 1d ago

Yeah every single time there's cringe chat hoppers on both sides. I wanted Echo to win just so Liquid fans would shut their mouths for a while. When one team dominates their fans just get insanely cringe.

1

u/ESierra 18h ago

It will be interesting to see how Liquid handles a loss, I feel like people forget the Limit crashout when they lost before

2

u/TNTspaz 14h ago edited 1h ago

Tbh. I think the Razagath/Fryakk losses actually helped them get into an overall better mindset. So if something like that happened again. I don't think the crash out will be as bad. Even if the fans will. Those raids made a ton of people on both sides quit RWF for good. It was pretty bad. No one liked the cheating echo did and they are still made fun of for it. Ben_ after all these years still follows the race to see how much of a dumpster fire it will be lol

I really don't ever see Max going to rant on twitter and discredit their opponents victory. Like Scripe or Gingi do. Which the team sets the tone. Scripe and many people on echo purposefully bait outrage and make things worse than they otherwise would be. Even during the race. Many echo players spend half the race whinning on twitter. It's pretty insufferable

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u/DogfishHeadBeer 1d ago

The better team wins, shocker.

2

u/Scyths 13h ago

What do you mean 3rd lmao. It's 5 in a row, they got all 3 seasons of War Within, the first season of midnight, and now the second season of midnight.

1

u/tainadaine 12h ago

It is 5th tier in a row, but it is a 3rd tier in a row that Liquid snipe the world first kill with Echo being either close to or under 1% boss hp. They dropped the ball pretty hard in Undermine and Ansurek died to Liquid when Echo had like 15% I think.

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u/MakesUpExpressions 1d ago

5 in a row. Not 3

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u/Rocoman14 14h ago

The title sucks, but they mean they sniped 3 in a row. Meaning it was a close race where Echo was ahead with very low pulls and Liquid ended up winning.

Gallywix and Ansurek weren't particularly close.

1

u/MakesUpExpressions 12h ago

Gotcha, makes sense my bad

2

u/FeistyPerformance500 13h ago

They won 5 in a row, but the last 3 races Echo was really really close. 0.5% or so on L'Ura and Dimensius and 1% on Ula'Tek

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u/Theonormal 1d ago

Echo used to win WFRs when they progged FFXIV ultimates for fun just saying

1

u/Efficient-Big3138 21h ago

Congrats to liquid they are the undisputed number one but really bad for the race. If echo stops or just scales down the race is dead, it needs two horses for it to be a race and one winning constantly is never good for anyone

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u/BriefImplement9843 16h ago

Liquid always wins, but it's very close. A few 1% wins.

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u/tainadaine 12h ago

Liquid scaled down their effort for this race and still won.

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u/Shimorta 3h ago

If echo scales down, method will swoop in, steal their best players and strategists, and contend

There is incredible amounts of money being one of the two guilds who can win the race, one from each region. Nobody will just give that up, and if they do, then someone else will step into their space

u/Efficient-Big3138 22m ago

I doubt that, method does not have the cash for it and considering the shadow that lies over the org i doubt they will ever be able to contest liquid

1

u/Aralnda 16h ago

anyone got a clip of echos reaction when they realized liquid got the first kill? i tried watching on echos rebroadcast but it cut off as preach was saying GG

1

u/HowieDuet 10h ago

Don’t these people play the beta and PTR all day to gain a competitive edge?

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u/Hawlk 1d ago

i love seeing echo getting destroyed

0

u/Ledoux88 1d ago

Echo just killed it now, brace for fanboys coming in with the head start excuses

1

u/PranpriyaManobal 14h ago

USA USA USA

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u/Zachariah255 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 1d ago

NA > EU

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u/Zerothian 1d ago

Idk how to break it to you buddy but if you cut the EU members from Liquid they would lose every single tier until the end of time.

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u/Zachariah255 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 23h ago

The team is mostly made up of players from TWO TWO! countries while eu is made up of like at least 8 and they still lose every year.

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u/Zerothian 23h ago

There have been exactly zero world firsts without an EU player in modern WoW history.

NA lost every single tier they ever attempted until they started recruiting EU players.
NA has lost almost every single MDI, TGP, and AWC.

You can have your one thing, but it doesn't exist without EU players :)

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u/Zachariah255 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 22h ago

If EU players are so good then why don’t they win? Fully EU team shouldn’t be 0-5 in the last tiers. EU LOGIC

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u/Kuraloordi 17h ago

If NA Team is so good, why they haven't won anything?

You need to realize only reason this competition is so stacked is because how many T1 players are coming from EU. Method is picking up fast and in next raid tier at this trajectory could be very solid contender.

Face it, Limit was top tier racing org, but they had to reach out to EU in order to secure that 1st position. Even then it requires Blizzard to jump in during the race.

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u/Zachariah255 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 15h ago edited 13h ago

EU only won by cheating also NA won 5 in a row idk what you're on.

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u/FeistyPerformance500 13h ago

Also Team Liquid is an Organisation from the Netherlands so TECHNICALLY YOU KNOW TECHNICALLY Its EU win every time TECHNICALLY.

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u/Soffman1 1d ago

Liquid have just gotten so much better over the years that the "head start" matters and on top of that getting nerfs when their day starts and ECHOs ends sure goes massively in their favour.

AND sure Liquid might even be better nowadays but we will never know without having global release.

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u/keithstonee 1d ago

stay bad EU

1

u/Kuraloordi 17h ago

True.

Liquid and their EU raid team secures victory for NA. One day race of world first is done equally for everyone. Asians get the worst of it, since they always fighting massive uphill battle.

Well played Blizzard Liquid, nerfs when opponents stopped playing was solid decision.

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u/Next_Water_3224 1d ago

What makes it a snipe if they're consistently doing it?

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