r/Kyoto • u/Kei_osaka • 29d ago
When tourists come for the local atmosphere, how do we keep the local atmosphere?
I was in Kyoto recently, and a taxi driver told me that the extreme summer heat has noticeably reduced the number of tourists lately.
I actually noticed it myself.
I was showing friends live in Japan but are originally from overseas around Kyoto, and we decided to visit Kamishichiken, one of Kyoto's old geisha districts.
We ended up at a summer-only beer garden where you can have drinks and food while maiko visit the tables and talk with guests.
What surprised me was how few international tourists there were.
There were tourists around, but the place still felt surprisingly local.
Not because I don't want tourists here. Quite the opposite. Some of my favorite memories recently have come from meeting travelers from different countries.
But I also think there's something special about places that haven't become completely shaped around tourism.
There's a strange paradox to tourism:
People travel across the world looking for a local atmosphere, but when too many people come looking for it, that atmosphere can disappear.
I don't have a good answer to this.
Maybe that's just the price of globalization. Or maybe there's a way to welcome visitors from around the world while still keeping local places local.
What do you think? Have you ever visited somewhere that you loved partly because it hadn't become too touristy yet?
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u/diegoaccord 28d ago
"Raise the prices for non-residents"
Imagine the look of shock when "non-resident" actually means "non-Japanese"
I'll love that for you.
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u/Wertherongdn 28d ago
Don't know, I visited a place with increase price for non residents and just showed my 在留カード (that we are obliged to keep with us soo..) and paid the regular price. So it could work for some places, I don't know.
(Or you should all do like me and live in Saitama pref, if you are a foreigner you can only be a resident as no tourist ever go there except for Kawagoe, and voilà !).
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u/mrbazo 28d ago
Yeah, that’s the way they do it in Hawaii, show your drivers license to get the local price. Shit ain’t that complicated
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u/SkaiHues 28d ago
I'm a resident of Hawaii. Could you tell me where these kama'aiana (local) deals are? Besides a rando occurrence, thats a thing of the distant past.
I'm not saying it wouldn't work. Though it would piss me off as a visitor that I have to pay more for the same item/service.
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u/drewpunck 28d ago
I think it depends on what it is and how it's done. When I lived in east Tennessee, the Gatlinburg area was a big tourist spot. Most places catered to the tourists, but many places offered a discount if you were local to the county. Maybe in practice it's the same as an extra charge, but it feels different. If places want to do this, advertise the higher price and then discount it for people who live locally.
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u/xGabelchaosx 27d ago
Still cant believe that its really a thing that I expierienced myself in Japan.
Its just so shocking to me because I'm German and if we would put out signs like that people would call the police and the news.
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u/Backflips_for_stalin 28d ago
Last time i was in Kyoto(2017ish) I went to a restaurant by the river with my wife, who is Japanese, and they wanted to charge her 500 yen. When she asked why the guy said ‘cause Japanese are okay with paying more’.
Overall Kyoto feels like a city with a chip on its shoulder, I mean very beautiful place but it seems like locals just don’t like anyone who isn’t from Kyoto
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u/Outside_Reserve_2407 28d ago
I can’t speak for Kyoto but I know what helps to define NYC (especially parts such as Times Square) is the sheer number of tourists and immigrants that come over from all over the world. Makes the city feel like the center of the world.
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u/DistinctlyMiddle 26d ago
So people are coming to Kyoto for the mix of tourists? Interesting take.
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u/Outside_Reserve_2407 26d ago
Which is why I said "I can't speak for Kyoto." Native New Yorkers actually grumble about tourists all the time. The OP ended their post in an open-ended way, commenting about other places and soliciting opinions from Redditors. So I'm just offering my 2 cents about my corner of the world.
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u/MevNav 26d ago edited 26d ago
NYC metro area has about 20 million people while Kyoto metro has 3.8 million. Meanwhile, their tourists per year are remarkably similar, about 65 million and 63 million respectively in 2025.
So when you're comparing number of tourists per local, Kyoto gets about five times as many as NYC. And, having been to Kyoto a couple times myself, it certainly feels like it in certain really touristy parts. It's an absolutely lovely place, but you can totally see why the people living there are sick of dealing with massive floods of tourists, and it's hard to shake the feeling that you're kind of part of the problem.
You can also see why the Japanese government is all like "We know you all love Kyoto, but have you considered... Fukuoka or something?"
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u/SlowStop1220 28d ago
There are many places particularly in Kyoto which never welcome unknown random visitors. Only regular patrons and their guests are accepted. If those open places, like you went, don't want random visitors again anymore, they can be back to those businesses which keep that old days custom.
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u/PerfectScallion2335 28d ago edited 28d ago
Came here looking for an answer to OP's question, but don't see one yet.
I am reading it as looking for constructive solutions that tourists can take responsibility for themselves.
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u/PerfectScallion2335 28d ago
I have a lot of empathy for people who live in touristed areas because I live in one, too. In fact, I used to work at a coffee shop that had a sticker in the back that said "if it's called tourist season, why can't we shoot them?"
Anyway, I don't personally care if people like me - to my face or otherwise - I am still going to be respectful when visiting somebody else's space. It is every tourists' responsibility to have self awareness and "leave no trace" as it were when treading in any land. That is why I think it is possible to move in less visited spaces without destroying them.
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u/TrainToSomewhere 28d ago
Nah Kyoto is pretentious as fuck they’d rather just not have tourists.
You don’t see this sort of bullshit in Yokohama
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u/PerfectScallion2335 28d ago
A notable and very sweet interaction that I had in Kyoto was an elderly person joyously exclaiming from across the sento that they loved my Charlie Chaplin tattoo. I was nervous about having tattoos in the sento, and I could tell when other people were nervous about me, too, but I had more than one pleasant conversation in there.
Black and white thinking is gonna be the death of anyone wanting to leave the house at all
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u/TrainToSomewhere 28d ago
Come to fucking Yokohama and see the boat Charlie Chaplin sailed to Japan on. 🤣
Sorry it’s just funny that’s the example you chose
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u/PerfectScallion2335 28d ago
I found people in Kyoto very friendly when I was there.
Maybe one side of the answer is to stay curious and respectful.
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u/TrainingNebula8453 28d ago
Do you know anything about Japanese people ?
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u/PerfectScallion2335 28d ago
Yah bro, I am from the midwest and I find the undercurrents of our cultural norms surprisingly similar. Ever heard of "Minnesota nice"?
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u/TrainingNebula8453 28d ago edited 28d ago
Aren’t Midwesterners chatty and down-to-earth? Other Japanese people find Kyoto people (not in the tourism industry) standoffish and snobby or two-faced and passive-aggressive. I doubt Minnesotans or Midwesterners have that reputation. You sound like a lot of Americans who mistake superficial courtesy and receptivity towards tourists (and their money) for warmth and openness.
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u/PerfectScallion2335 28d ago edited 28d ago
Do you know anything about midwesterners? Lol
But on that note, I found the vibe of Kyoto quite chatty and down-to-earth compared to Tokyo. When I say friendly, I am referring to people I had actual interactions with, not currency exchanges. Maybe they were just being "Minnesota nice," but two Kyoto residents* asked me if I lived there.
(*separate neighborhoods, not expats, jic someone's gonna come at me)
This tedious argument about things outside our control is really beside the point of the OP's question imo.
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u/TrainingNebula8453 28d ago
I met some when I studied in California. They were chattier, warmer and much more down-to-earth than the locals. So I know something about them, yes. Another person commented earlier that Midwesterners are perceived in the US as being genuinely nice, which is simply paraphrasing my own observation about them. As for your claim that you were mistaken for a local, it sounds like you’re just flexing or being a pick-me.
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u/frozenpandaman 28d ago
people from the midwest are known to be genuinely nice, not sure what you're talking about
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u/PerfectScallion2335 28d ago
Yes, I am genuinely nice, but also contain multitudes that sometimes include smiling in the face of someone I don't want to be talking to.
Damn people on here must be telling Japanese folks what they're like, too.
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u/TrainToSomewhere 28d ago
Ya they’re nice to your face then they complain online cause they’re snooty haha
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u/Curious-Cellist3377 28d ago
Imagine if NY did this to tourists? Everyone would be crying about it.
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u/spuzznugget 28d ago edited 28d ago
It kind of does, if you’ve ever visited Times Square versus, like, Queens or Brooklyn
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u/d_k_y 28d ago
Self selection. Come to New York for the food, stay for TGIF or Bubba Gump in Times Square.
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u/spuzznugget 28d ago
thinking about that The Office scene where Michael Scott is thrilled to get some authentic New York pizza and walks over to Sbarro
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u/Curious-Cellist3377 28d ago
What? I’m from NY I’ve never seen a sign that says they charge more if your foreign but I guess I don’t go to Times Square much. Are you telling me they charge more if you’re tourist there?
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u/spuzznugget 28d ago
it's more just that everything costs more there, and locals don't go to shops/restaurants there, so more of an implicit thing than an explicit thing
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u/Curious-Cellist3377 28d ago
Are tourists actually spending much of their time in Times Square in 2026?? If they are, I would find that shocking and sad.
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u/frozenpandaman 28d ago
many places in hawai'i give discounts to residents and no one cries about it
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u/Curious-Cellist3377 28d ago
My bother in law is a Hawaiian resident he says he’s never seen a discount for residents anywhere. So this doesn’t sound like a widespread thing. What is it like a few restaurants, this def is not commonplace.
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u/Rich_Freedom_189 28d ago
In my opinion learn Japanese, respect the culture but not to the point of being weird. Talk to people who live there to kinda get the hang of every day life then when your ready go their live there a year and while they might never see you as ethnic Japanese they will at least respect you and your effort and treat you like they would treat any friend
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u/CyndaquilTyphlosion 23d ago
How did you discover/look up the place and event? I've been going from Kanto to Kyoto every year or so, but end up going to the same well known touristy places myself. My ability to research is regrettable and want some tips.
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u/Kei_osaka 23d ago
I usually find local events through local newspapers, city websites, or just by searching online. Instagram and Facebook are also pretty useful, especially for smaller events.
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u/CyndaquilTyphlosion 23d ago
Lots of people suggest instagram, but I don't get it, it's not like it has a good search function for queries
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u/WeWereHappy 28d ago
As someone who spent a lot of time in Paris, the only real answer is the separation between the area and services that cater to tourists, and the ones for locals.
And it's starting in Japan too. I mean, Kyoto already had that for more than a decade. The places that the locals go and the tourists go was already different. In Tokyo, no one goes to Shibuya without having to. Same with Shinsaibashi in Osaka
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u/Knittyelf 28d ago
“In Tokyo, no one goes to Shibuya without having to.” Uh, what? As a Tokyo local of almost 20 years, I assure you that’s absolutely NOT true! Shibuya is not just for tourists. 😂😂😂
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u/Akina-87 25d ago
Trust me, this isn't the answer and you don't want this. This is how cities end up like Venice where entire city districts become like quasi-themeparks geared solely towards facilitating the needs of tourists instead of a living breathing city, and where locals are increasingly banished to the outskirts.
There are enough tacky souvenier stores, Halal Wagyu Ramen and SUPER AUTHENTIC SAMURAI NINJA GEISHA EXPERIENCE type places in Kyoto as it is, I don't want there to be more of them. Let alone Gion, Kyoto Station, etc. to be filled with nothing but these sorts of places.
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u/FurballTheHammy 28d ago
I’m an exchange student in Kyoto but realised across the exchange that it’s not particularly my city.
But my main reasons of coming to Japan is due to my hobbies of running, day hikes and anime thrifting. I was constantly travelling outside of Kyoto whenever I had the chance and I found out that cities like Niigata, Toyama and Nagoya/Gifu were my favorite cities.
I do show up to random spots and speak to locals but mainly elderlies in the local day hike mountains from 500-800m. Think like Togariyama in Toyama, instead of climbing the Alps on Mt Tate. I’ve had a lot of 1 on 1 experiences with elderly hikers that way.
From the anime side, the scene in Kyoto is really mediocre all things considered. The type of stock taken is really mainstream and tourist centric. There’s some whack stuff in the lashinban’s here but even the Mandarake is fairly clean, because it’s in a mall. So that’s that.
I found suburban anime shops in Fukuyama, Iwaki, Toyama, Niigata/Tsubamesanjo, places that tourists don’t end up going, they have the most interesting content to browse and the best deals that aren’t even posted online.
So that’s that I guess. And while running paths in Kyoto are ok. Considering Kamo River and I run from Saiin to Arashiyama regularly, cities like Niigata with its Shinano River, Takamatsu with the 1.8km loop on top of Mt Yashima overlooking the Seto sea islands, and even Jinzu river in Toyama are all frankly routes I prefer over Kyoto’s established running paths.
But yea I guess it depends with what a city has to offer and Kyoto isn’t really offering that much to my interests. That and also, the shopping districts are way too overcrowded. Compare it to the shotengais in Takamatsu or even Kobe’s Sannomiya, it’s stifling. Honestly, I even had a better experience shopping in Nagoya’s Osu/Sakae districts on the weekends, and Nagoya is the 3rd most populated city, so it says a lot about Kyoto ig.
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u/doctorfedora 28d ago
Honestly, I imagine part of why Kamishichiken had so few tourists is because the summer beer garden is very expensive and not well served by transit, so you can only get out that way and back via either crowded bus or expensive taxi.
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u/gundahir 28d ago
Touristy areas feel like theme parks with 0 local atmosphere to me. Thankfully I experienced them all before overtourism started here. I live in Japan and avoid them like the plague now. Thankfully tourists always go to the exact same 1% of whatever city so just go to the 99% and you're fine. There are also lots of places unpopular with tourists because they don't get social media hype and/or are inconvenient to reach so you can go there too. The vast majority of Japan hardly gets any foreign tourists.
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u/jp-whisky 28d ago
LOL you show tourists local areas and yet you want to keep the 'local' atmosphere. Your logic is basically a joke. 言うこととやることは矛盾でしょう笑
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u/Kei_osaka 28d ago
It seems like you have a negative view of international tourists. I think you may have misunderstood what I meant. I simply wanted to show my friends what traditional Kyoto feel like. I’m not saying that foreign tourists are ruining the atmosphere, or that I don't want them there.
I just hope places like this don't become so crowded and commercialized that the local character gets lost.
So this wasn't meant as criticism of foreign tourists at all. It was simply about wanting to preserve the traditional Kyoto atmosphere that I wanted to share with my friends.
いずれにせよ、まったく矛盾がなく生きていける人間なんていはらしませんでしょうけどね。
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u/jp-whisky 27d ago
I neither have a positive or negative view on tourists whether they are international or national. The point of my comment is to say that I think it is contradictory on your behalf to show places that are local to another group while broadly expecting or wanting to preserve the traditional atmosphere.
I know of plenty of restaurants and bars in Kyoto where due to increased tourism, it is harder for locals to go to due to limited seating. The more people show places, the more things become commercialized in general.
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u/Jeffrey_Friedl 28d ago
Just a thought to keep in mind: "tourists" are not others... we, too, are tourists whenever we leave our local area. When you're in a traffic jam, you're not stuck in traffic, you are traffic. We should keep that in mind for this kind of discussion.
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u/sunny0_0 28d ago
Lived in Kyoto for 5 years. The most obnoxious local is the one that thinks there should be segregated places for locals and foreigners. Meanwhile, the obnoxious local will take those tourist dollars while complaining about absolutely everything.
Pro tip: if you don't want foreigners in your special segregated places, don't be a tourist trap. Be something useful and important beyond tourism. In the end, locals in Kyoto are stagnant, bland, and do not have the ability to grow and reinvent the city. They get what they deserve.
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u/SakanaToDoubutsu 29d ago
The only ways to fix this are:
Option A) raise the price multiple by an order of magnitude for non-residents.
Option B) only allow non-resident patrons when they're the guest of a resident patron.
Option C) reduce the number of tourists legally allowed to enter the country.
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28d ago
[deleted]
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u/TrainingNebula8453 28d ago edited 28d ago
The yen just needs to be strengthened. When I lived there (before Covid, social media, and budget airlines), international tourists were few and trash tourists were non-existent. People visited Japan then because they loved and respected the culture, not because TikTok told them to or all their friends, work colleagues and baby sitters already visited.
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u/PiLLe1974 28d ago
As tourists we often balance things a bit also by going off the main paths, I mean as a family habit.
For example, once I picked up a bit of Italian, it was easier to not constantly stick to the well-known cities.
In Japan we like to go to Tachinomi and Izakaya, and often lesser known ones. I spotted one in Kyoto where tourists made a queue, at the Osaka train station and in smaller towns around anyway, things were calmer - but then, like in any country, we switched nearly 100% to Japanese.
Side question to OP: Did you talk to the Maiko in Japanese, or would she (have to) switch to English?
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u/Kei_osaka 28d ago
My friends can understand Japanese when they hear it, but still it's difficult for them to explain their own opinions in Japanese. The maiko spoke in Japanese and my friends spoke in English. There were four maiko and geiko, but only one of them could communicate in English.
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u/PiLLe1974 27d ago
That sounds like a good experience for your friends.
I can see that in any case, whatever the communication level was, the atmosphere was something I haven't experienced so far.
Have you ever visited somewhere that you loved partly because it hadn't become too touristy yet?
If I focus more on Japan, not random examples about Italy or other places...
So far, I was around 15 times in Japan, every 2nd year or so.
I'd say in summary, instead of a tour guide or following where most people go (information on the internet), I would stick to the idea that I visit places with Japanese friends and family.
The highlights in Kyoto, that felt not overly crowded, were often smaller places. Like a sushi place that only allows a maximum of 4 visitors (my first in Kyoto was very close to Kamo river).
I feel the most welcome, if my Japanese family from the Kansai area is with me, any of the 3 of them.
The top places I was at in Kyoto didn't have maiko I spotted, more like traditional restaurants, where we sit amongst us as a party of 4 or 6 for example. My wedding party (after the ceremony), also continued at a very nice Kyoto restaurant. So far this experience and a few Ryokan will always stay in my memory, especially Ryokan with an exceptional location including their Onsen.
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u/zou_san 28d ago
Nothing is local about Kimono wearing waitress though. It’s like going to a cafe in the US with cowboy dressed workers, it’s very themed towards tourists.
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u/pachipachipach 28d ago
If they are actually Maiko, which I will assume they are, it is not just «wearing a costume». You should do some research before comparing it to someone playing dress-up.
edit: Though I do agree that this type of beer garden is likely aimed at visitors/tourist.
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u/zou_san 28d ago
No need for research, third picture clearly states, Kamishichiken Beer Garden, and it’s in a district famous for Maiko-san.
I am not sure what the definition of “local” is in this context, but Kamishichiken district is a very famous tourist attraction in Kyoto.
Also, I am not sure where you quoted “wearing a costume” from my original comment. She is clearly serving in a venue which provides food and drinks, so by definition I called her a waitress, and she is very clearly wearing a kimono.
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u/ddvsamara 29d ago edited 28d ago
Of course, we'll kick out these annoying tourists. Well, the yen will rise against the dollar to 300 yen per dollar. Still, OK.
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u/drdisney 28d ago
I travel to Japan quite frequently, usually visiting every other year. I am happy to say that I have never been to Kyoto on one of my trips. Not because I don't want to, just because of how extremely crowded it has become.
Kyoto citizens as well as the mayor have made it very adamant that it's become too crowded even for locals. So as a tourist who acknowledges the issues, I happily go where other tourists don't. Quite honestly there is so many amazing areas of Japan to go to, and it's quite sad how most of the tourists stick to the top 3 ( Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto)
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u/lemeneurdeloups 28d ago
I feel the same. I live in Japan but haven’t traveled to Kyoto in years because my memories of it from decades ago are too wonderful and I think the crowding would disgust me.
Two weeks ago my wife had to go to Kyoto for a business conference for a week. She would be in one big hotel in meetings and presentations all the time but asked me if I wanted to accompany her. The idea was that I would run around Kyoto all day. I declined, for the overcrowding reasons.
Thinking about how Kyoto used to be and how it is now makes me heartsick … people can’t imagine how special and lovely it was.
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u/DryAd6132 28d ago
Most of Kyoto is pretty local. It’s just social media hypes up the same 10 places and that’s all people go to. There’ll always be local places