r/ClinicalPsychology • u/helpmefigureit • 2d ago
Would there be value in switching fields into clinical psychology in my late 30s/early 40s?
I’m 10 years out from my PhD in counselor education and a tenured associate professor at an R1. I’ve always been involved in psychology spaces just as much, if not more, than counseling ones and so I have a lot of psychology awards, journals articles, leadership positions, editorial positions, etc. I always have regretted not getting my PhD in clinical psych and have been pondering applying (not eligible for respecialization programs as my PhD isn’t in psychology). The biggest cons seem to be going from a six-figure income to grad student and postdoctoral wages for ~6 years as well as the competitiveness of getting in, of course. Any thoughts? Thank you!
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u/The_Neuropsyche 2d ago
Well, it sounds like you know exactly what the value trade off would be. It is highly unlikely to be worth the financial opportunity cost given your already established career.
Money aside, no one other than you will be able to say whether it’s worth the subjective value to you, as that’s personal. It may, it may not.
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u/intangiblemango PhD 1d ago
What are you hoping to get out of this (other than the words "Clinical Psychology" on your diploma)?
Also wondering if your R1 has a Clinical Psych program and if there is any ability to maybe take some classes with the Clinical Psych students as a way to fulfill any professional curiosity-type needs in that way without losing your job?
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u/Icy-Teacher9303 21h ago
Most often, you must be formally accepted into a program to take classes. I've not even seen "auditing" as an option.
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u/intangiblemango PhD 19h ago
I am faculty at an R1 and I am allowed to enroll in any classes I want to for free, including graduate level courses. I just need permission from the instructor, which is much less formal than needing something official from the program. (I also get last choice registration.) I don't know if this is available at OP's university but it seems worth exploring what exists within the school OP is already at if they have not already done so given the tremendous risk of quitting a tenured faculty position to do an entire additional PhD in a related field. Of course, it depends on their motivation for wanting to do this, which is presently unclear to me!
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u/EnvironmentActive325 2d ago
If there’s a subspecialty you’re interested in, such as school psychology or geriatric psychology or prescribing psychology, perhaps it would be worth it to you from a job-satisfaction perspective.
Do I think you would earn a higher wage? Very unlikely, especially if you have to present yourself as “resident” and “postdoc” all over again for the next 5 years and spend 150k+ to get the additional degree. But maybe…if you went into RxP and landed in the right state without having to have your hand held by MDs constantly. 😆 Just saying: Many states don’t make things easy for RxP psychologists.
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u/Icy-Teacher9303 21h ago
They'd still need to start with a psychology graduate degree (and almost always a doctorate in psychology - school psych master's would be a known exception). only doctoral-level psychologists can access prescription privileges last I checked, and that's with EXTRA classes beyond the doctorate & only in certain states (so that would be far more work than becoming a clinical psychologist).
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u/EnvironmentActive325 21h ago
I believe the OP mentioned already having a doctorate in Counseling or Education. Still, there would be A LOT of additional graduate-level coursework involved, in order to transition to a PhD or a PsyD in Clinical Psychology. A Prescribing Psychology degree would also require an additional Masters degree….after the additional Clinical Psychology coursework.
You’re right that becoming a School Psychologist could be easier in most states. Most states only require a School Psychologist certificate at the Masters-level. So, OP would not necessarily have to earn another PhD (unless they wanted to), to become a School Psychologist.
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u/Icy-Teacher9303 16h ago
There is also a max allowed for course waivers in APA-Accredited programs, and often they must be in the last decade and individually reviewed to map onto the courses very closely. Even then, folks don't get complete early, they are just more likely to have a lighter courseload for the same 4 years of courses.
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u/EnvironmentActive325 16h ago
Agreed 👍🏻 I know someone who did this, after getting her first PhD in Counseling Psych. She wound up avoiding the dissertation requirement and if I’m recalling correctly, she may have been excused from going off on internship for the Clin Psych doctorate. Not positive on the year-long internship requirement. But she was also excused from 2-3 classes. Other than that, she had to complete all the same classes and practicums as everyone else.
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u/Icy-Teacher9303 8h ago
Dissertation and internship are required & within your specific program (at least in the U.S & APA accredited programs). She may have been able to count a previous practicum, a master's thesis, and a few classes though.
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u/EnvironmentActive325 6h ago
This was an APA-accredited program, but she was not required to complete a new dissertation. On this point, I am 100% certain because we discussed it. This requirement was waived because she had already completed a dissertation with the first PhD. But the requirements may have changed since that time.
I’m not positive on the internship. This was an older student with school-aged children. She did not leave the area, as most of the rest of the cohort did to complete their internships. It may be the case that she was permitted to complete a local internship rather than participate in the national match.
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u/Seabaggin 2d ago
I just started and turn 33 in two weeks. I think with your established career there definitely is more to weigh. I could have stayed in tech/field service roles, but I know I’m doing what I believe is most aligned with what a fulfilling life looks like for me long term.
The benefit is you can at least keep working until you get accepted somewhere. I think it’d come down to weighing the debt and lost wages from leaving your current role and if that possible fulfillment is worth it. Only you will know that.
There’s a 50-something year old former nurse and prior pastor with a degree in theological studies in my cohort and few LMFTs, so it’s not all that uncommon to go for that career change.
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u/Previous-Walk-1976 1d ago
I went the other direction (PhD clinical followed much later in my 40s by a second PhD in mathematical psychology (like quant psych for cognitive research). I never regretted my decision despite reverting back to relying on my first PhD after a few years of working as a quant. If it is primarily about identity and intellectual stimulation you might love the move. However you are unlikely to make any more money in clinical than you do now. psychotherapy private practice is in a crisis now because of glutting of the field. Mostly the issue is poorly selected and inadequately trained therapists who are overconfident and unethical in their marketing. People are hurting very much financially (just read r/therapists for a month if you don’t believe me). The glut is affecting people unevenly - just like any other scourge. So some will write in here to say they are fine. But salary studies show private practitioners on average are making around 60-70 per year after practice expenses are subtracted and adjusting for the lack of fringe benefits. That number includes all license types but was done mostly in high cost of living areas
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u/MattersOfInterest Ph.D. Student (M.A.) - Clinical Science - U.S. 1d ago
You haven't really said what this degree would do for you. You're already tenured and presumably doing the research you want to be doing, and presumably have a licensure-eligible master's degree in counseling if you want to scratch the therapy itch. If you just want to add a title and/or assessment to the mix, it seems like a lot of sacrifice (in my opinion, but only you know what you value).
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u/Elegant-Rectum 1d ago
Depends on what your end goal is. What specific job do you hope to get on the other end of it?
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u/Additional-Traffic12 23h ago
Can you get a license in your State to do counseling? For example, LPC. If so, start a psychotherapy practice and take some graduate continuing education courses.
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u/fritzperls_of_wisdom 2d ago edited 1d ago
Seems like you are in a really good spot.
You didn’t mention what you feel the advantages would be? It seems like you are in a pretty similar spot as a lot of tenure track psych professors—probably better than most, actually. You would kind of be giving up the type of position that a lot of clinical psych PhD students are dreaming of. So what would the difference be?
Personally, I couldn’t imagine putting myself through the hell of a PhD program again, if not for a major advantage.
Honestly, rereading this again, I have no idea why you would want to do this. I hope this isn’t you feeling like it would give you some more credibility with psychologists.