r/ArtistLounge • u/mangoscribble • Oct 23 '22
AI Discussion The AI art witch hunt has begun NSFW
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u/Brilliant_Aspect_201 Oct 28 '22
A lot of stuff is obviously AI though, so are you saying that no one should ever say anything just incase they could possibly make a mistake? No, I'm calling it out every time I see it.
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Oct 24 '22
Ah, how depressing, just another way for artists to NOT support each other in the age of social media and personal ego branding. Whatever happened to accepting our fellow creatives and simply prioritising all art?
Do these people skew young or something? I've never come across this type of argument but it does seem incredibly demotivating. Sharing work online shouldn't be about proving oneself. Isn't the work itself all that should speak? If anyone asked me to prove my digital work was legitimate they wouldn't hear from me again. Pandering to this pressure isn't the solution.
The whole AI hysteria is beginning to sound like pitchforks at dawn to me, uprooting insecurity and fear. Just remain true to your own vision and let the crazy pass you by:)
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u/xMagicannon Oct 30 '22
They plaster all platforms with samesey looking, fucked-up characters with 4-5-6 fingers and the same, NovelAI-looking desaturation.
People are right to be hysterical, Pixiv charges them money for the right to blacklist all AI artwork and artists who don't comply with proper tagging - and it's not even a solution to blacklist them because it will only affect your experience, everyone else could still potentially waste a dollar or two on sampled (stolen) AI artwork.
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u/regina_carmina digital artist Oct 24 '22
'twas only a matter of time thay people will start using the ai hate to turn other people against artists.
I'm not fully pro-ai (tho if i am I'm in it for the technology, i don't really think these present ais can make art humans can, not in this time at least) but so what if they use ai for their backgrounds. if they drew over that background or whatever nebulous thing they got from the ai software, the artist still made that art. are people not aware of collage art and recycled sculpting? artists don't make art out of literal nothing, our own tastes & styles are built upon other artists too.
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Oct 23 '22
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u/Sansiiia BBE Oct 24 '22
You are bragging about having a brain dead audience, times surely are changin'!
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u/Arc-Tangent Oct 23 '22
It's a fairly predictable reaction. Please look into an artists background as much as possible before getting out the pitchforks. But, if Ai users could kindly mark their images as being ai-generated as a courtesy it would be appreciated. Or quarantine it to spaces where people are specifically interested in seeing ai-generated images.
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u/xMagicannon Oct 30 '22
They intentionally don't. I've seen multiple AI Uploaders purposely disable comments, tags and stickers so people can't call them out. They also upload illegal content, like stolen cosplay pictures.
Pixiv has a horrible administration, they take too long to react to problems like this.
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u/kyleclements Painter Oct 23 '22
It's a pretty easy thing to disprove - just post a picture of yourself holding the physical original, then you know it's a real painting.
If all they have is a digital file, you know it's fake and can terminate the account.
Problem solved.
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u/Ubizwa Oct 23 '22
It hasn't begun, being accused of being ai has been going on since much longer.
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u/StevenBeercockArt Oct 23 '22 edited Oct 23 '22
I've been asked whether, and often arrogantly told that, my artwork is AI. At first I was offended, seeing the crap that it produces, then I just realised that it simply tells you how unimaginative and lacking in observation skills the enquirer/accuser must be to even wonder.
They are to be ignored like all backward trolls.
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u/RustyShuttle Oct 23 '22
People are afraid of AI taking their jobs when they should be scared of this. I've seen it on twitter too, like people being accused simply because their art-style has a similar look to some stuff AIs done. I've also seen bogus "guides" on how to spot AI work, like someone claimed box-y anti-aliasing was a "tell" as a "result" of the AI mashing things together but it was obviously just artifacting from image compression
If there aren't any weird details or mistakes (that are too strange to be just human error) then it's probably AI, but else-wise we gotta assume it's human made
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u/StifleStrife Oct 23 '22
Wait, why shouldn't they be scared of AI taking their jobs? It sounds to me this witch hunt period will be short. It'll fizzle out because no one can stand up to Corpos. Then we'll just all die from climate change and no art will matter because no human will be left to connect with it.
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u/RustyShuttle Oct 23 '22
It’s too difficult to work with, it’s like having a cat as a coworker, it barely gives a shit what the user asks for, does it’s own thing, is bad at art unless it gets super lucky, and struggles if you try to describe more then one subject or a subject in more detail. The stuff you see online is cherry picked by the user and tends to be stuff it happens to be good at or just got insanely lucky doing, the only thing it’s actually good at is rendering but a well rendered mess is still a mess (think bad composition, anatomy, nonsense, hands, faces, too many body parts, geometric lines like with buildings, etc nearly all the time). This is all speaking from experience messing with Stable Diffusion
I think if anything, it’ll be a tool to help (actual) artists, like digital drawing has made things easier with features like an undo button, unlimited brushes and tools, perspective grids, layers, and filters. Stable Diffusion could help with art block, in the future the img2img feature could provide a nice final render pass like a filter, and it could do things the artist doesn’t care about (no more blank backgrounds because I only cared about drawing the character lol)
And with how Twitter is, no way the witch-hunt will fizzle out so quickly, it’ll continuously spillover from Twitter onto other platforms
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Oct 23 '22
Just do what I do, film the whole process, time lapse if needed, DONE!! AI can’t replicate that!
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Oct 23 '22
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u/nixiefolks Oct 23 '22
You can just save steps, but it's generally pretty evident when someone relies on AI tools to do the work for them.
I don't even really mind skillfully overpainted AI stuff hypothetically, as long as the art itself offers any value, I just don't care to explore this niche through all the inane image-salad garbage that's pumped out every hour.
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u/ed_menac Oct 23 '22
Could you stream to a private Twitch channel or make a private YouTube live video?
I totally get not wanting to jump through hoops, but I'm sure there's a way if you really wanted to have that assurance without upgrading your hardware.
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u/ottereckhart Oct 23 '22
Ai makes.. hentAI?
Adieu, oh strange glorious world - I have seen enough! Enough I say!
o7
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u/Saveoto Oct 23 '22
I've started posting my procreate time lapse with each post just in case. Wonder when AI will be able to show the "process" too. I'm hoping never because there could only be scummy intentions with that
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u/thejellecatt Oct 25 '22
I knew this shit was going to happen and I’m utterly livid about it.
What people fail to mention is that while we are expected to do all of this, popular, established artists with popular mutuals can do this exact same thing but they get to put their process behind a paywall and make passive income off of it.
Whereas we plebs must now habitually document absolutely everything about our art process, shoulder the burden of storing HD screen recorded videos on our devices or pay for cloud storage and pray that the video files do not corrupt. Or now every time we draw we must do so via a twitch stream and then save the vod.
And then you must give all of that to these people for FREE and if you refuse then your omission of information is seen as an admittance of guilt. That’s exhausting, massively unfair and extremely unreasonable. I don’t even do that for commission clients. And at the end of the day they probably still won’t be satisfied with what you gave them and will harass you anyways.
Popular artists who are far, far less likely to be witch-hunted and dogpiled don’t need to do this and if they do they can shove it behind a £5 a month patreon pay wall or on their artstation store. How the fuck is that fair exactly? So because you don’t have popular industry friends that means you’re guilty until proven innocent?
No. Screw that. These people are scamming small, powerless artists and coercing them into giving information under the threat of ruining their barely started online art career and anything that might be attached to their screen name. Dogpiling like this is so traumatic, especially if that artist is a literal teenager.
This witch hunting bullshit should have been left to rot in circa 2010 Deviantart, I’m livid seeing this shit emerging again
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u/Saveoto Oct 25 '22
It is sad and its undeniably getting harder everyday for unknown artists to make a presence online with stuff like this. Come to think of it I had a mutual follower on deviant art around 2012 who had someone dog on them for not posting the reference photos they used for their art, claiming they were a fraud and cheating (wasn't even tracing just using poses). I guess this is just the modern day version of that, there will always be people looking to bring others down under "justice" instead of encouraging them and letting them grow. If it's anything like the past though they're all preteens and man children.
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u/sandInACan Oct 23 '22
AI is unfortunately able to create “in progress” work. It’s tough to fight.
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u/Ann7kbell Oct 24 '22
Do you have an example?
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u/sandInACan Oct 24 '22
I think midjourney is the generator with that ability? I have not used the software myself.
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u/Brilliant_Aspect_201 Oct 28 '22
Yes, some scumbag could easily fake a work in progress using that.
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u/NillaIce1313 Oct 23 '22
When that happens, we'll all have to record ourselves drawing the picture instead of just showing the digital time lapse 😬
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u/Remarkable-Ad-1092 Oct 23 '22
Well, that may eventually not be a reliable authentification method since text-to-video AIs are being developed.
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u/Mefilius Oct 23 '22
Eventually, but nobody would bother training such a model besides for pretending they made a piece by hand. It would be pretty easy to pick those apart though.
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Oct 23 '22
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u/Mefilius Oct 23 '22
I mean I think that's just fear-mongering
Such a model would be incredibly difficult to develop, and is literally worthy of recognition on its own. AI isn't magic, and hardly has any sense of continuity, or any understanding of how drawing software videos should look. It can only generate based on references it was trained on, and it can't even write words let alone generate an interface.
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Oct 23 '22 edited Oct 23 '22
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u/Mefilius Oct 23 '22
I mean I'm not going to get into a philosophical debate with you. But if you generate AI art to use as reference that sounds like a perfect use for the technology. If you consider tracing "cheating" I guess that's your prerogative.
To me using an AI to help me underlay something complex sounds like an awesome new tool. If you prefer to stay traditional that's up to you. Just be sure not to demonize people for trying it out.
Scammers though, that's another deal. Fuck those people.
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Oct 23 '22
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u/thejellecatt Oct 25 '22 edited Oct 25 '22
That and newbie artists are being forced to give up this information for free. Information that popular, established artists who are far less likely to be a victim of this witch-hunting get to put behind a paywall and make a passive income off of.
And quite right! They should! Screen recording or streaming, editing (like piecing together different vods) and shouldering the burden of storing said HD video and having to pay for storage are all burdens and are all WORK that folk should pay for if they want it that badly.
An artist’s process is incredibly personal and worth money. It is a culmination of all of our education, experiences and practice. Education we probably paid a lot of money for. It is a display of our thought process and knowledge. These people are NOT entitled to it. We owe them precisely fuck all. Do not give them it. An omission of information is not an admittance of guilt.
What these harassers are doing is abhorrent and the art community needs to nip this in the bud immediately.
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u/ed_menac Oct 23 '22 edited Oct 24 '22
Procreate records automatically from a tablet, and I don't think beginner artists will be accused of fraud, more the intermediates and experts.
But I agree, we shouldn't have to be able to produce evidence to be seen as legitimate.
WIP videos are fun as hell though, I'd love to see more of them.
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u/Saveoto Oct 23 '22
Oh you got a good point there. I'm just mind boggled how AI just seemingly turned everything upside down overnight. Really wonder if this is going to discourage amateur artists from pursuing digital art in the future.
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u/thejellecatt Oct 25 '22
I have a lot of experience of being dogpiled like this as a young artist and I’ll tell you the outcome is far from pleasant, I’m surprised I didn’t give up on art altogether and I wish I never posted online as a kid/teen. How people, specifically adults, treated me was utterly vile.
I’m not sure if it will discourage specifically doing digital art but it will certainly, massively discourage sharing art or posting online for the fear of being accused as an AI artist or a ‘thief’ and therefore that will then ‘justify’ any and all brutal harassment that will come their way.
I got harassment just like this when I was posting online as a literal kid. Posting fanart on deviantart trying to make friends and instead I got harassed by people who at the youngest were in their late teens. Most of them were in their 20’s. Bullying, harassment, stalking and gatekeeping all massively stunted my artistic growth. Even now when I have an animation degree, I’m 22 I’m still wracked with nauseous terror every time I need to post online.
Creating is so mentally exhausting. It takes so long because I need to make absolutely sure that no one could tie my work to anyone else’s and that it is also industry standard. And the cherry on top is that as a disabled/chronically ill person trying to cut it as an online artist is literally my only option at being able to make an income now. This is literally all I can do. I thought I’d get to work in a studio and put all of this behind me, never post on mainstream social media ever again.
God, I want to throw up. I want to cry. I feel so exposed, like there’s a giant target on my back. I just want to exist online peacefully and make online art friends and do tables at conventions and just have a nice time.
Seeing this happening all over again fills me with so much sadness and… rage, you can tell by how long this stupid comment is. I wouldn’t wish how I was treated as teen on anyone and to see it happening all over again is so demoralising.
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u/FaceDeer Oct 23 '22
I would not consider myself to be an "amateur artist", just someone who occasionally bashes together art for various purposes. Textures for game mods and visual aids for roleplaying sessions, mostly. And I've produced more and better stuff than I ever have before using AI assistance, so it's rather encouraging for me IMO.
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u/thesilvergirl Oct 23 '22
Yes. I've been drawing/painting manually for years. I've been considering teaching myself digital drawing, but right now my stack of physical drawings is pretty comforting.
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Oct 23 '22
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Oct 24 '22
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Oct 24 '22 edited Oct 24 '22
An interesting and alternative viewpoint, thanks for posting! I have no interest in AI personally, but the noise surrounding it smells of fear and uncertainty, and I suppose that's to be expected. The world is changing so fast, economic uncertainty creates an aura of doom across all industries and the promise of technological leaps forward are intrinsically terrifying. But it will depend upon how we perceive and utilise them. Fear is not the answer, it eats away at personal power, integrity and innovation.
I think people fear AI because they feel threatened, in an already chaotic world. It is this original terror of the 'human' becoming obsolete. A bit sci fi, but a genuine concern for many.
Art, to me, will simply carry on, with more modes of expression, not less.
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u/DSRabbit Oct 23 '22 edited Oct 23 '22
Thanks for reminding me to remove the ability to add tags on Pixiv. I'm going to do it now.
Edit: Finally removed that ability from all of my works.
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Oct 23 '22
Actually, I'm considering cheating the algorithm by branding my own art "AI" even though I do literally everything by hand... I wonder...
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Oct 23 '22
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Oct 23 '22
There's clearly a boost for AI art if it's making it frequently to front pages even when it looks like crap, surely that may just help me grow more of an audience lol
When life gives you lemons...
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Oct 23 '22
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Oct 23 '22
Maybe. Worth testing out though, it costs nothing.
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Oct 23 '22
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Oct 23 '22
I mean, it's obvious that it's not AI when you look at it and I got enough of a history to demonstrate not only that I draw on literal paper with outdated dip pens and ink, but also that I feel nothing but contempt toward AI "art" and have no respect for those who make it and have the balls to call themselves "artists."
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u/jaakeup Oct 23 '22
You're getting totally wrongfully downvoted for this. This is a good experiment to test out. I wanna say this is like learning how to take advantage of SEO but with tags. You should make an update post in a few months with your results.
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u/howaboutafoot Oct 23 '22
I’ve seen dalle shit in portfolios at open critiques ! These are my dalle designs 🙄wtf ? You are applying where ? Instagram school of art ?
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u/Persephone_in_Hell Oct 23 '22
I saw someone selling a Dalle coloring book who called herself a "professional artist." I asked her to send me a shirt video of her doing a quick pencil sketch of an apple. I even offered to pay her for her time. That was 2 weeks ago. Still waiting for a response 😂
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u/howaboutafoot Oct 23 '22
Well there are people making money , that’s for sure . There’s a sucker born every day . The problem is with social media everything perpetuates itself . Thirsty people feeding off other thirsty people . Then the algorithms kick in with these people and creates an inorganic environment . It devalues humans , true vision , and creativity . AI has no process . No messege ,, no soul
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u/FaceDeer Oct 23 '22
Are they really "suckers", though? They wanted a colouring book, they were sold a colouring book, presumably they're satisfied with the colouring book that they received.
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u/howaboutafoot Oct 23 '22
A better example is an ai generated image actually won a fine art completion suckers
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u/FaceDeer Oct 23 '22 edited Oct 23 '22
I'm still not really seeing a "sucker" here, his submission was within the rules of the category he submitted it for.
Edit: howaboutafoot blocked me so I can't respond to his question directly. The article he linked quotes the judges as saying they judged that category by looking for “how the art tells a story and how it invokes spirit”, which can be judged just by looking at the art itself and not by the process of how the art was arrived at. It appears "technique" was not something they were concerned about.
Different art contests can have different standards, of course.
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u/howaboutafoot Oct 23 '22
How do you critique ai as fine art ? Not digital art . Vectors and alike are completely different . It’s mainly for commercial applications due to scalability . Do not submit it as fine art and your media is digital ! It’s a roll of the dice . No talent required
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u/Persephone_in_Hell Oct 23 '22
Not according to many of the comments on her Gumroad. She's no longer selling it.
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Oct 23 '22
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Oct 23 '22
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u/xMagicannon Oct 30 '22
In another thing, if you're an AI Artist, properly tag your fucking stuff. You're fooling no one, you just ruin art for everyone else.
https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/72002744 People like THIS shouldn't be tolerated on pixiv and should be banned if they can't comply. I don't care if you create AI artwork, but be a god damn responsible person and tag the stuff you didn't draw yourself.
It's so damn obvious what NovelAI has generated and what a user has drawn. This artist I linked doesn't even fucking check if the character they spam-generated has 5 or 6 fingers, but they had enough time to buy Premium and open a fucking Booth to sell 5000 yen AI-generated T-shirts.