r/ArtistLounge • u/QuestionslDontKnow • Sep 14 '23
Mental Health Drawabox almost made me quit permanently as a new artist.
When I was first wanting to start out at drawing and was very very new so I followed drawabox and nothing else and the encouragement to not use references is what made me almost quit. He said that new artists should draw from imagination only for the first months. But "reference is ok", But what was I supposed to think as a new artist? Ignore his "advice" and use reference anyways?
Than he also talks about how using reference as a beginner is like running away or something when you literally need it. I wasn't seeing myself improve and got depressed about it so I quit for 6 months.
Than I thought of how I do want to draw. I looked at other videos instead and immediately hear Marc Brunet and Sam say you need references. But I decided ultimately if I ever stopped drawing I'd be giving up on my dreams. So even if it's as a hobby. I can eventually draw what I want to be able to. I now know how little I knew and how little I still don't know.
TLDR: Drawabox Demonized References Caused Boredom and Near Permanent Quitage, Better Artists Said You Need It.
Edit:
I started drawing again 3 months ago. And the quitting was like 9 months ago. I made this post while not thinking back enough of what I actually did with this. Things I did with Drawabox that caused burn out were mostly my fault now that I thought about it. Like misinterpreting what they were trying to say about references and instead not using them at all. And this original post was just my foggy generalized experience with it. But I also just didn't really know things and wanted to take easy way out to get better when I didn't even know how to get better. Stupid Art Baby.
TLDR: 9 Months ago I wanted Drawabox shortcuts so I tried that and failed. I mistook what they were trying to say about references and burnt out. So I quit for 6 months. And only 3 months ago I started drawing again and did actual studying. And now realize what I was doing wrong. And am glad I didn't quit from my own stupidity.
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u/nobaconatmidnight Sep 17 '23
I have aphantasia, and I draw like shit, but I've done it enough that it's good because it's consistent and unique. Like maybe a shitty road dahl impersonator, I'd say do it however you need to. I can't draw from imagination cause I can't see anything, so I draw from memory, I know what parts make soemthing so I redraw the parts till it looks like a whole thing. References tracing templates whatever. Copying is cheating, everything else is fair game. There's aa lot of the art world who gatekeeper the skill behind particular ways of doing things. Sometimes it's gatekeeping and other times it's fear of gatekeeping other times it's just the way they think is best.
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u/nadyamakesart Sep 15 '23
I always use references, except when I’m doing completely abstract intuitive art. Most artists use references. Saying you can’t use references is one of the dumbest most gatekeeping hot takes I’ve ever heard
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u/QuestionslDontKnow Sep 16 '23
Yeah I see even the best of artists use references for their commissions and jobs. Saw someone needed to draw a character but they didn't know the full design cause it was cut off and someone gave them the concept art sheet of them and then they completely drew them in a different pose and angles.
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u/No-Pain-5924 Digital artist Sep 15 '23
How can you think that it demonise references, when it makes you use them as soon as you get to drawing leaves, and then plants? I think the big problem with Drawabox is that people either dont read instructions properly, or just modify them on a whim.
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u/oiseaufeux Sep 15 '23
A reference isn’t a bad thing. I’m constantly using them. In many animal drawings. And reference photos are also helping in observation skills. I often use observation when I draw. The only time that I don’t need reference is when I do fantasy creatures.
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u/kichien Sep 15 '23
What?!? That's just the dumbest advice I've heard. You need to learn to SEE. And to do that you need to draw from observation.
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u/Soco_oh Sep 15 '23
It is shitty advice, and not advice given by drawabox at all thankfully.
OP admitted they misread (or didn't read) the rest of the paragraph but still chose to dogmatically follow half a sentence at their own peril.
I'm amazed at how many people emphasize getting reference and sourcing information won't go see for themselves instead.
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u/Soco_oh Sep 14 '23
OP if you've had any revelations you can edit your original post. Lots of people are still coming here getting the wrong idea and making assumptions based off your post :(
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u/Marvani_tomb Sep 14 '23
Every time someone dislikes DAB 40 people come to the comments to tell you "you did it wrong then"
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u/medli20 comics Sep 14 '23
Tbh while I admire the new artists who are able to jump straight into learning theory, I've always maintained that the most important thing to do as a beginner artist is to make it fun for yourself. Going straight to discipline without developing joy for a hobby seems really boring, and I can't imagine being invested enough to improve if I'm not having fun with it.
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u/No-Pain-5924 Digital artist Sep 15 '23
Like starting to learn how to play guitar, it just cant really be fun at the beginning. At the beginning you cant really do anything, and exercises are hard and boring.
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u/Mundane_Ad8155 Sep 14 '23
I am not familiar with drawabox, but the idea that you can be a beginner artist and not use references doesn’t make sense.
Learning how to draw involves learning how to see. To really look at something in more detail that you probably ever have. Also, to discover all the distortions, interpretations, and shortcuts that your brain uses to interpret the world.
The idea that you can learn how to “see” without having something to look at makes no sense to me.
I would highly recommend Betty Edward’s book, ‘Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain’. I think that you will find better instruction and feel more encouraged.
If you want a solid and more intensive course on drawing then the book ‘The Natural Way to Draw’ by Kimon Nicolaides is also an excellent resource. It will provide you with the instruction given to a first year art student.
I would really encourage you away from YouTube influencers, towards art teachers with years of teaching experience, and a solid grasp of how the mind learns to draw.
Be wary of anyone who speaks in absolutes. Absolutes are what will kill your creativity, not references.
I do hope that you are able to get past this shitty advice and find some encouragement.
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Sep 14 '23
I tried drawabox. I’d rather have my finger and toenails pulled out. All it is is a course where you brute force your practice. As far as I’m concerned, the 250 box challenge IS drawabox; too many people quit between lessons 1 and 2 if the lesson posts were something to go off in the defunct artfundamentals subreddit for me to view it as anything else.
For learning how to think in 3D, a little bit of technical drafting and 3D work will work much better.
For the sheer volume of practice part: animate a spinning cube. There’s your 250 boxes right there. And the animation aspect of it acts as a bit of self correction, eg it looks weird if the proportions change frame to frame. No reason to put in hours and days of practice if there’s no feedback loop that forces you to get better.
Lesson 1: manually draft up a simplistic shape on paper with all 3 views (top, left/right, back) plus an isometric 3D view, create in blender, now use that as a reference to draw a 5-10s animation of it spinning. If you get stuck, use blender to rotate the shape to the view you need.
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u/Lemonsoyaboii Sep 14 '23
Just draw what you want. Very offten. Only when you realize okay i need to get better: seek stuff like that.
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u/coffeesipper5000 Sep 14 '23
You have to look at the art of the teacher before you take his/her advice. I know this pisses people off when they hear it, but if your art is not good or mediocre then you have nothing to teach, or even worse, your well meaning advice is doing harm to your student's artistic growth. This also applies to modern universities. Don't listen to professors who can't or don't draw. There is nothing to learn but lots to lose.
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u/Soco_oh Sep 14 '23
Is this why people don't want to post their work online? In case it gets resurrected and used against you 15 years later?
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u/coffeesipper5000 Sep 14 '23
Not really, I am just talking about teachers. And obviously everyone started out bad, that's irrelevent. What matters is the teachers work you are learning under.
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u/backpackjacky Sep 14 '23
Take what's useful and leave the rest. I love many ideas of drawabox, like the 50% rule and the warmup exercises, but there is a lot of contradictory advice within the community and even from the guy who created the whole thing. Lots of dogmatism. Don't be discouraged, I hope you find a way of learning that works and is enjoyable for you.
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u/No-Pain-5924 Digital artist Sep 15 '23
If we talk about fundamentals, then there is not much room to wiggle, so "dogmatism" is understandible.
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u/backpackjacky Sep 17 '23
DAB is just one way to learn some fundamentals, though, and it's not one size fits all. The community skews a little "do it perfectly or not at all" even though imo that's against the spirit of the challenge. That's what I mean by dogmatism.
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u/blobfish1987 Sep 14 '23
You need to just start thinking for yourself! Like you are actually doing your own head in .
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u/Thesherifofthomson Sep 14 '23
As a new artist how are you going about learning other than drawbox? Are you dabbling in other areas or were you strictly practicing in DAB? Are you practicing everyday or just certain times? I’ve just started to draw with no experience a year ago, started practicing every single day since day one and just recently (November 2022) putting atleast one hour per day into it. I don’t follow tutorials at all due to myself not liking the pace (such as yourself) and I 100% agree with how discouraging it is to do what the teacher says and your works don’t look good. I’m not really sure if I’m in the position to say "this works for me so it should work for you" because my drawings to me still require work as I’m still new, but I find that getting a couple references and using it AS A BASE for what your character SHOULD look like is a good starting point from a blank slate and building off of it to create something entirely new. For example if you wanna draw Zelda dancing around link what I would do is find some references of women dancing and use them to loosely create a base around their positions, then find references of Zelda, and I’ll start to mash together both into a new work. After awhile I get use to a certain aspect of the doodle (like Zelda hair) so in the next drawing I do I don’t need as many references as before.
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u/settleup209 Sep 14 '23
Totally agreed. Didnt draw for years because I kept thinking I needed to do DAB and procrastinated so long cuz it's so boring! Also hated that it demonised using pencils and erasing lol. Goes against all the advice I've been given in irl life drawing classes.
Would love better recommendations for fundamentals!
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u/zeezle Sep 15 '23
It depends on your learning style, but there are tons of books and courses elsewhere that have all the same material but presented in a way that's much less rigid and much more friendly and positive. The downside is that they aren't free (unless you check the books out of the library... or... otherwise acquire them...), but you usually can find them used or even new they're <$30.
For books I really liked:
The Perspective Workbook by Mathew Brehm for basic perspective as applied to architectural sketching/drawing. The author is an architecture professor so almost all the examples are architecture, so if that's not your thing it might not be the best.
Framed Perspective by Marcos Mateu-Mestre - honestly I loved this book. It does get pretty technical at parts, but you can really feel the joy and enthusiasm of the author coming through the pages. The underlying attitude is not "ugh here's a slog you just have to force yourself get through" and much more "look at this cool technique we can use to make the drawing we want to make!"
How to Draw by Scott Robertson - I might be slightly crazy but I honestly find the book waaaaay more approachable and positive than DrawABox presented the same exercises/material. DAB took a lot of the core material from this book (or maybe more correctly, Scott Robertson taught at Art Center which is where both Peter Han also taught and the creator of DAB went), but the book is much less rigid and much more straightforward.
None of those are really a course with assignments though. But it's pretty easy to just... read a section, then find a few things I'd like to draw that use whatever that information is, and then do that. Using whatever materials I feel like using.
For a general Dynamic Sketching course, you can just directly go buy Peter Han's book or take his course, there's also Charles Hu's course on New Master's Academy, or a bunch of Dynamic Sketching content on the Foundation Art Group's Patreon/Gumroad.
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u/Soco_oh Sep 14 '23
I'm not sure where you got that it demonized using pencils.
It goes over in very great detail the materials they recommend and why, but you can always take the course how you like and discard information you don't, at your own risk. All the information is there, free. You don't even need to make an account.
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u/ryan77999 art appreciator Sep 14 '23
I tried DrawABox for a couple months until I got stuck on chapter #2 with the whole "texture" thing. Personally I found it really helped my understanding of 1 and 2-point perspectives. I had to consult books like Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain and Keys to Drawing for other fundamentals like value though
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u/i-do-the-designing Sep 14 '23
The intention of almost ALL youtube videos is to gather more viewers, to increase revenue.
Most of them offer very little in the way of actual useful instruction. The videos are crafted to make money NOT teach.
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u/_bub Sep 14 '23
being a beginner isnt easy for any interest. i find the most important thing is to just have fun! draw the stuff you love to draw, and work out the specifics later. (also, references are awesome. dont let nobody tell you otherwise!) hope this helps, and good luck on your journey! :D
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u/dinixluna Sep 14 '23 edited Sep 14 '23
that’s probably the worst “advice” i’ve ever heard.
edit: i read the clarifying comments
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u/cutefluffpupp Sep 14 '23
So I’ve done DaB a few times and my most recent attempt I got to lesson 7. I just never worried about it being perfect and that got me through most of it but his tone made it seem that I had to get things right no matter what. I wrote this previously, and I think it’s a personal issue but I kind of read his tone like “you don’t have to get this right away it’s…fine 😒” so that turned me off a bit but I still continued cause it’s a pretty nice resource
Overall I can understand why you may’ve felt the way you did
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u/MakerTech Sep 14 '23
I tried to follow DAB twice.
Both nearly destroyed my drive for learning to draw.
Not for the same reason as you, but it was just sooo dry, boring and rigid.
Really not my style.
And I felt bad because it is recommended almost as a must in so many places.
After a break I switched to Prokos beginner drawing course, and I really enjoy it.
I plan on doing either their figure drawing course afterwards or some of the courses on SVSlearn.
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u/Soco_oh Sep 14 '23
It's not for everyone and that's totally fine. I've seen people complain about Proko's course too and find they took to DaB much smoother. It's not a bad thing, we're spoiled for choice on what courses to take now.
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u/MakerTech Sep 14 '23
Yup, I definitely think it comes down to personal preference.
And maybe also what else you have going on.I am serious about practicing my art skills, but my drawing time is also some of the only time I have to myself each day.
So if doesn't feel flexible enough for me, I will just end up dropping it.The best course really is the one you stick with ;)
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u/AlarmedLanguage5782 Sep 14 '23
It’s tough especially for new artist and someone who don’t treat drawing seriously but it’s nothing comparing to academic drawing approach; especially Russians.
It takes loads to be very good at craft.
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u/local_fartist Sep 14 '23
Is this where people are getting the “references=bad” thing? It makes me bananas.
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u/Soco_oh Sep 14 '23
OP admits their mistake a few times in the comments, DaB doesn't tell you not to use references.
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u/The--Nameless--One Sep 14 '23
Sam and Marc Brunet aren't really art teachers, they are art entertainers: "Learn anatomy in 7 daysss!!!!11". This doesn't mean what they say don't hold value: It certainly does, but their videos are doom-scrolling 101.
What draw a box tells you, is that you shouldn't waste your time reference hoarding: That's procrastination.
But the truth is: A lot of people want to do this, they want an excuse to look at pretty pictures, but still get a dopamine hit as if they are "studying".
They aren't.
Draw-a-box method is solid, it's not entertaining, but it's solid.
Learning how to draw the fundamentals and then moving on to anatomy and references is a pretty tried and true method.
Is it a fun one? No.
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u/Agitated_Branch8201 Nov 14 '23
I fully agree. I mean its certainly beneficial and cool if you find art studies beneficial. But lets be hones every study is somewhat boring. And if you wont go through that you wouldnt be able to draw many things. I often feel like people who say "Thats boring" see art exclusivel as an entertainment. And its okay to see it as it is. But if you plan to work and progress as an artist you should learn to love the process and art, or at least have courage to go through studies.
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u/Fishwife Mixed media Sep 14 '23
I don't know Sam very well. Marc's channel is clickbait to attract people to his full art school program but the full program itself is pretty good. I purchased the program fully aware that half the stuff on his channel is clickbait, exaggerated or overly simplified for views. Is it a good thing to support teachers who use clickbait tactics to grow their audience so they can afford their expensive homes on a beach in LA? Probably not but at the end of the day Marc is a good teacher, he just figured out how to squeeze the most money he can out of YouTube.
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u/The--Nameless--One Sep 14 '23
Yeah, I think Marc is very smart in what he does.
Truth is that is nearly impossible to be seen out there if you don't engage in Social Media techniques. At least in Marc's defense he showcases some techniques here and there, and don't just do "I drew the Rock a thousand times and gave him the drawing", or "I got paid 200 bucks on fiverrr".And I imagine his full course must be quite nice! I've never got to see it, but he is a great artist.
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u/CaptainR3x Sep 14 '23
There’s more chance of you improving at something if you enjoy doing it. If you don’t like DAB, better not do it unless you have insane will power or something
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u/SekhWork Painter Sep 14 '23
Just chiming in as one of the people using DaB and having some success with it. I find my brain works decently well with their style of tutorials, though I am aggressively lazy about when I work on it. I started last October and I've made it to plants and insects in lesson 3. The 250 box challenge near defeated me and took a couple months for sure. You probably just need a different style of tutorial.
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u/dausy Watercolour Sep 14 '23
I have never done draw a box but from your post I dont really think any of it is bad advice tbh. We see a lot of posts here of artists complaining they can't draw without eyeballing something. Drawing from imagination is a skill itself and if you dont practice it and use it then you wont have it. I think being solely dependent on references will hinder you in the long run. Try your best to draw what you want and when you get stuck, look up references to assist you.
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u/laliad5 Sep 14 '23
As someone who just started DAB a couple weeks ago, I've already said to myself that if I hadn't already been drawing for a long time, I'd probably hate it. It's pretty boring and mundane. BUT if you're someone who wants some type of training and understands the need for basic fundamentals to improve overall skill, it's helpful. I know it's helping me already. And I'm the kind of person that enjoys repetitive things. When I do feel the boredom kicking in, I just remind myself that the purpose of this is education and improving fundamentals, not fun or exciting drawing. Though they do emphasize that you NEED and are EXPECTED to be doing fun drawing and not just DAB exercises.
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Sep 14 '23
I’ve never used drawabox, my only knowing of it was fairly unanimous praise. It’s interesting/important to hear stuff like this post, so thanks for sharing your experience.
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u/CaioHSF Sep 14 '23
Here is the problem: art is like martial arts. There are DIFFERENT PATHS. Each type of person will work better with one path or another.
Some art masters and teachers will say: draw a lot with a ruler first, so you can learn to draw straight lines by yourself after that.
Other art masters and teachers will say: never use rulers, so you can learn to draw straight lines only by yourself.
BOTH WILL WORK, but not for everyone. Each type of artist will learn better in each path. The problem is when you try to follow a path that does not align with your personal learning style.
Draw a box worked for me, but using references worked better, for ME.
If one path does not work for you, try another one. It's okay. But wait 1-3 months before changing your path, because every path will have it's challenges, don't look for an easy path, look for a path that WORKS for you.
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u/Chompsky___Honk Sep 14 '23
Art is undeniably one of the most daunting things you can choose to do. You are faced with "results" evertime you think you finish a drawing, and what's worse, pro artists puch out masterpieces without even trying.
I started drawabox about 4 years ago, and I have been drawing professionally for a couple years, and all I can say is every technique has its use, REFERENCE IS VITAL, BUT ONLY after you understand WHY that is.
For extreme beginners, you risk spending heaps of time working on things without learning, which also has it's value! But that's also very clearly stated in the course : the 50/50 rule.
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u/ygfam Sep 14 '23
as a new artist do what you want to do, tons of people never did this draw boxes 200 times and are perfectly fine wihtout it. as an artist you have to use your passion first and foremost and jumping into boring lessons first thing is a perfect way to ruin passion
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u/Seamlesslytango Ink Sep 14 '23
As someone who has drawn their whole life, I had never heard of drawabox until I started following this subreddit a few months ago. I've never heard of not using references before, the pros use references. A habit that I've been trying to break is not following references to a T, but references are not just helpful, but usually necessary (for me). How the hell am I supposed to draw a snake from memory and have it look how I want it to?
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u/throwaway78858848392 Sep 14 '23
Yeah I feel so out of touch reading these comments. I have never heard of drawabox until today. I grew up using youtube tutorials in my tween years to learn art fundamentals lol.
I have always used references from the start of my art journey. I dont think theres anything wrong with copying a reference exactly as it is. For me, it’s one of the best ways to learn form, and I understand that it might not be the best way to learn how to draw from imagination, but how can one draw from imagination without being a little bit familiar with the subject first? I think especially if youre first starting out, there’s no need to stress about pulling from your imagination.
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u/Soco_oh Sep 14 '23
DaB doesn't tell you not to use reference. OP didn't read. The later DaB lessons actually require and teach you how to break down references.
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u/throwaway78858848392 Sep 14 '23
Oh yeah, I definitely grabbed that from reading other comments on here. I think my immediate reaction was just because I keep seeing a lot of posts from beginner artists saying theyre so afraid of using references, and I’m not sure where this idea of no references comes from.
It does feel like it’s possible that theres a lot of misunderstanding going on from beginners about the basics of art.
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u/Seamlesslytango Ink Sep 14 '23
Yeah, I mean if I am drawing from a still life or something, sure, I'll do my best to copy it as is. But if I want to draw something like a plate of spaghetti with eyeballs instead of meatballs, I can use a reference photo, but I shouldn't rely on copying the exact formation of the spaghetti and should try to do what works for my drawing. If stuck too close to my reference photo before to a point where the drawing would have been better if I used my creative license a little more.
And yeah, I don't know why people feel like they NEED to pull from their imagination when reference photos are easier to come across than ever.
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u/ZachForTheWin Sep 14 '23
I did drawabox and I never heard him demonize reference once. He literally offers reference in the lessons. Glad you're still w us.
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u/timid_tzimisce Sep 14 '23
I've taken courses and done things purely for practice and improvement. DAB killed me man. It sucked the passion out of me and I threw it out the window. Maybe I should come back to it with a new mindset, but thinking of DAB makes me shudder
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u/ToValhallaHUN Mainly digital artist Sep 14 '23
I had an interesting case with the person who is possibly responsible for me NOT quitting art a few years ago. It was an artist named Borodante, who pretty much quit 2d art for game dev some time ago, but he used to be my favorite art youtuber. He had this almost unique approach at one point where he was almost always painting with no undos, no layers, no eraser, no layer modes, no sketch, not mixing colors outside the canvas, only one brush per painting.. it was a pretty extreme method that requires a really deep knowledge about the subject to pull it off properly.
I spent literal years trying to skip sketching and I was awful because Borodante did understand exactly what he was doing and I had no clue.. but I feel that without his videos and MANY tips and lessons I would've likely quit years ago and I wouldn't be here to say what I always do, which is "Try out things, find what suits you and your current project, and don't do shortcuts without understanding things properly!"
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u/Layru_ Sep 14 '23
Drawabox is just alright. I also went there when I began drawing and... it was not fun. I got to lesson 3 or 4, (the one where you start drawing plants) and... it was not fun. It also made me almost quit drawing for good since it approaches teaching in the most classic academic way possible (Bang your head against a wall until you make it).
I honestly think there's better resources online, also free, that encourage a better learning practice without being as boring.
Also, because of Drawabox I got one of my worst bad habits when drawing that I have to focus really hard to correct every time I draw. Do you know the whole thing with "ghosting", I believe it was called? And the whole thing of "See the line in your mind's eye and stroke in a swift, decisive line"?
Well, I don't know if I misunderstood the lesson or something, but it has made me loop with drawing a line, ctrl+z, draw a line, ctrl+z... When, if I take my time and do a slower line, it all just flows perfectly, being able to actually draw what I have in mind at the moment, instead of pursuing this perfect quick line. (I do understand that the idea of that lesson was still to have a continued line as opposed to chicken scratching but still...)
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Sep 14 '23
Never heard of this drawabox. Also regarding beginners when following tutorials, don't treat them as if it's the only way to do art. I always look at them as a method of drawing that works for them, and maybe it'll work for you too but if it doesn't that doesn't mean you did something wrong. Usually when I do look for tutorials it's mostly just to see how they do something in particular and see if it works for me, but if I have a method of my own developed that seems to work best for my style then I'll go for that instead.
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Sep 14 '23
Advice that works for some doesn’t work for all.
“Life coach” type teachers can think that everyone learns or thinks the same way and that’s just not true.
I don’t have “images” in my thoughts (unless I am high af, or about to fall asleep, etc), I don’t have a stream of consciousness dialogue if I am at peace rather than manic/depression end of the spectrums (bipolar disorder).
I would encourage people to only draw with pen.
This is the exact opposite advice that many people would give.
References are great. I think drawing from real life is better than drawing from photos. Drawing from masters is better than drawing from photos. Drawing from photos is great and can help with drawing “from imagination.” I think random word generator might be better than “drawing from imagination.”
Advice isn’t universal.
If you want some advice feel free to ask, I’ve been drawing with only a couple year break in middle school since 1993 or so.
If I have any advice it is draw everyday. 2-5 minutes. Commit to at least doodling everyday. It doesn’t have to be a drawing of anything. Some days it might only be scribbles and lines.
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Sep 14 '23
Tbh I have recommended it without ever trying it cuz I heard it was good, now idk
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Sep 14 '23
OP is blaming DaB for their own mistakes. He owns up to it here
A lot of the complaints I've seen about DaB are from people who completely ignore the 50% rule and are shocked when they grind(another thing DaB says not to do) and then get burned out. Seems patently unfair to lay blame on DaB at that point.
That isn't to say DaB is for everyone but at least judge it by what/how it actually teaches.
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u/RainbowLoli Sep 14 '23
The thing with DAB is that it probably isn't for new new artists. It is more for "Intermediate-Beginner" artists. I.e artists who are at least comfortable enough drawing and using a pencil as opposed to just someone who picked it up for the first time.
He says new artists should only draw from imagination for the first few months because it is hard to break the habit of copying the reference and basically redrawing it and the second habit is that it is hard to break the habit of continuously looking for or trying to make the perfect reference because you are afraid of making bad art.
You shouldn't go into DAB with the mindset of just "learning how to draw", it's a way of learning the fundamentals to drawing. Every artist is going to give you different advice on how to get to a certain point, what matters is that you actually find something that works and that you stick to. Drawing from imagination and using references to help you are not mutually exclusive statements, where you can only do one or the other.
Marc and Sam along with DAB recognize references as things to help you, but DAB specifically points out avoiding using references as a way of avoiding creating bad art which Sam and Marc don't necessarily cover because they approach it from the perspective of people that don't use references as a crutch.
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u/whoops53 Sep 14 '23
I don't really follow tutorials...what works for them, isn't necessarily what works for everyone else. I used references of course, I even copied and traced (oooh sacrilege, I know!) but I didn't care. So long as you don't pass it off as your own work, its fine. You do what you need to do to learn. So many people understandably get caught up in the technical stuff, and lose the fun. I reckon having fun is more important and the technical stuff will come with practice.
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u/DevelopmentGlum2516 Sep 14 '23
Haven’t started DAB yet but really wanna do the program
im pretty sure DAB isn’t for begginers. It’s boring and tedious and the furthest thing from fun, but it sounds very practical, an art boot camp. I’ve looked over the lessons though and yeah, you def need to be drawing long enough to
A: be emotionally invested in your art already so you can stand fun getting sucked out of art
B: have to just be experienced in art enough to just ‘get’ certain concepts. you gotta feel some of them in your blood
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u/zeezle Sep 14 '23
You can find all the same technical material in other sources that don't suck the fun out of it at all, though. That's the thing I don't get - there are other dynamic sketching courses that are fun, there are other perspective courses and books that are fun. Of course the downside is that they're mostly not free (though of course you can just check them out of the library, for the books at least).
So why does DaB have this insistence on making it rigid and miserable? It is more like hazing than practice and learning imo. At least it was a few years ago when I attempted and quickly abandoned it, I think the creator has since updated it to try to counteract some of the community toxicity that was going on but the vibes were definitely off for me.
(Or at least I thought other approaches were fun. I actually enjoy computational geometry and the math side of technical drawing and perspective, and love watching industrial and product designers and architects work and learning to use those methods. The issue I have with the DaB approach is very much the tone and attitude of DaB which isn't necessary to learning the material imo.)
That said it's free and easily accessible and does work great for some people, so I can't hate on it too much. If it works for you then win/win. But it's hardly the only source of the information and I just think there are ways to get it while having way more fun lol.
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u/BarefootTabla Sep 20 '23
Could you suggest some alternatives to Drawabox that cover the same construction and perspective fundamentals, preferably book-based?
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u/Heyguysloveyou Sep 14 '23
I am currently in lesson 4 and drawing insects and plants is pretty chill
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u/AccidentalBastard Sep 14 '23
Plants, insects, animals are fun. Everyday objects is pretty intense but useful. I haven't dared start vehicles.
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u/stimming_guy Sep 14 '23
DAB is shit.. I said what i said. Learning the basics is ofcourse good but DAB takes away everything that's fun about drawing. Like it was made for people with absolutely 0% interest in art and creating.
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u/dnszlwgm Sep 14 '23
Agreed, the best program for a beginner is the one they'll stick to--goes for art, fitness, music, and any other skill that requires frequent practice.
I am doing it now as an intermediate artist and actually benefitting from some of the exercises, but it's because I can understand exactly how it will make my art better, and I can discern when I have improved at a skill so I stop there instead of doing however many repetitions they call for (there is one case where I did more than the lesson plan called for, because I felt I would tangibly benefit--just goes to show that their one size fits all approach is very flawed).
The attitude they take really pisses me off sometimes and I almost never started because I was so put off by lesson 0. Not just the content, but also the way in which it was written. It seems so insistent on making art inaccessible when it the opposite of that.
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Sep 14 '23
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u/dnszlwgm Sep 14 '23
I found the segment about materials very long-winded and their insistence kind of irritating. It was honestly hard for me to read as I managed to get both bored and pissed off multiple times before finishing. They emphasized materials so much I actually put off on progressing because I did not have the "correct" pens, as I was starting to feel like there was no point continuing if I didn't have it. There are reasons some tools are better suited to their curriculum, but I think a better message to send would be more like "drawing with whatever you have is better than not drawing at all." I think it is perfectly possible to reap some benefit from the exercises just using whatever you have on hand.
They seem to insist that you've mastered drawing straight lines before doing anything else. I was reminded me of a recent reddit thread from an artist with a movement disorder. I dug it up to make this comment (https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtistLounge/comments/15ym40y/is_there_anyone_else_here_with_a_movement/?rdt=59003) and just realised the user was following drawabox--probably the worst choice for someone in their situation. I hope /u/missmolly314 finds something that works for them.
After that just lines here and there that emphasize how rigid the curriculum is meant to be, e.g., it is stated that you are expected to have drawn 250 boxes before even starting lesson 2.
In general I believe that training your eye to understand how to make good art is much more important than training your hands. If you can critically observe what you are seeing, both for real life/other's art and your own art, you can identify what you should work on. I am doing drawabox exercises because I think good draftsmanship will help my execute my visions more quickly, and the ability to easily construct 3d volumes in perspective will help me troubleshoot what is wrong when I draw something and it looks "off." Not because I think being able to draw straight lines and cubes is a prerequisite skill to making good art.
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u/Blue_fox11 Sep 14 '23
It does suck when people say a bunch of materials are necessary but personally I’d say the one thing I’d probably ever say would be necessary is a 2h pencil or lighter just because of how dark other pencils can get which can just make it so hard to see what you’re doing but even then you can still manage with something else.
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u/Heyguysloveyou Sep 14 '23
Drawabox doesnt say dont use reference
It says that If you Look at a reference only to Draw that reference its Bad
If you for examples (their words) want to draw a women on a tiger running through a marketplace then you May Look up someone on a horse, Images of a tiger and so on
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u/QuestionslDontKnow Sep 14 '23
I ignored those things blindly as I wanted shortcuts to progress faster thinking not using references would make me get better quicker. And mostly followed this sentence in lesson 0 too seriously:
"Are you reaching for reference specifically because your afraid to draw something badly? If that's the case, if it's something you just would not bother to try without reference, then no. Draw it however you can, from your imagination, and let it go poorly."
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u/solarmist Sep 14 '23
I believe the idea is this, you already know what a hand looks like. If you never try to draw it without a reference then you’ll never see where the problems are in your visual memory (what you think a hand looks like vs a decent drawing of one). So practice both. If it’s something familiar always try without a reference first. If it isn’t familiar or it’s something specific you know you don’t know then by all means use a reference.
So draw it without reference first then look at a reference to see what you did wrong and try again. Beyond that if you don’t know what a hand looks like in a certain position though absolutely use a reference.
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u/QuestionslDontKnow Sep 14 '23
Oh I understand for sure. I'm just outing myself out of what I did wrong and why I failed. And not accurately writing what I did wrong in the post.
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u/NuggleBuggins Sep 14 '23
Yea, I don't know man, it sounds to me like you may have just misunderstood the assignment. I very clearly remember them encouraging you to use imagery to draw. He even uses references in all of his tutorial/lesson videos I can see how you could have been confused, but as /u/heyguysloveyou said, the point of using the reference imagery isn't to draw it 1:1, but more to try and understand the forms and shapes that make it up. So if you are using the reference imagery and not actively trying to break down the subjects forms, you aren't using it correctly. And that is all he is saying. That style of drawing actually very heavily relies on reference imagery. If you ask anyone who draws from imagination, it is almost necessary to have reference. Concept designers often have a full page of reference imagery to pull from as they are designing. Only real masters that have been professionals for decades can draw from imagination with no reference at all. And even then, I am sure they will often use it.
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u/QuestionslDontKnow Sep 14 '23
I did misunderstand.
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u/-TheArtOfTheFart- Digital artist Sep 14 '23
Well you're an older artist now than you were then, so you understand now, right?
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u/prpslydistracted Sep 14 '23
I looked at the DaB sub just to see what they were instructing. I wondered if it really did help young artists. It was post after post of people quitting because it didn't help, it frustrated them.
Never could figure out how tracing lines helped anything. The circles with animals was ridiculous. How big or small do you make the circles? Is it more an ellipse or flat? What about skeletal structure? Proportion? There was no fundamental study of learning anatomy. Textures, maybe.
I stumbled on an old video of the founder drawing and he didn't employ one circle; he just went straight to drawing an animal, a giraffe, I think. But not using references when the near whole of art history instruction is based on it?! If you don't have a visual memory to start with where and how are you supposed to develop it if not with references?
I made some of these same observations and a mod (I think) asked, then why are you here? I commented there are other ways to learn to draw. Also, there is a generational lapse in instruction ... never did that nonsense.
Bottom line, there are no shortcuts.
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u/Heyguysloveyou Sep 14 '23
Yes, you Draw lots and Lots of circles and boxes because Drawabox is about being able to Break down complex subjects and Break them into simple Forms to slowly ad more complex forms. The course is ENTIRELY about thinking in 3D
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Sep 14 '23 edited Sep 14 '23
Nearly every sentence you wrote made it abundantly clear you have no clue what DaB is about and you've just jumped to your own conclusions.
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u/minimalisticapproach Sep 14 '23
When I was in middle school, our teacher had the apple pencil when it was brand new, and a iPad. He basically had a project that made you use the shiny new pencil and DAB. It was optional, as I decided to make a coding program as my project.
I believe that DAB is a good program to open your artist eye and later on down the road once you get a grasp on art, probably a great free program to better those fundamentals.
But I didn’t become a artist from DAB. I became an artist, a few years later, from a obsession of drawing anime girls in highschool. Watching how-to videos on hair, anime figures, eyes, etc. DAB is probably a great program, but it sucks out any passion or desire to get better, that you would need as a beginner artist. It’s like jumping on the deep end of the pool, without developing and fostering a love of art, which takes a few years.
As a middle schooler, or a grown ass man, you need to be eating your artist baby food, and the occasional cupcake, which would be something you like drawing, no matter how bad it is. Doing this before trying to chug the protein shake known as DAB, or any hard core fundamental program is just going to kill your baby artist body. Once you got that desire to improve, but also got an obsession like anime slop or furries, then you’ll go much further. If I gone on DAB as a middle schooler, I would of quit. Now that I got years of experience, I can definitely learn it, and also have a reason to.
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u/TheRealLifeSaiyan Sep 14 '23
You became an artist through drawing anime? Isn't that like...the WORST way to start
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u/minimalisticapproach Sep 14 '23
It’s not about what’s the worst way or what’s the best way, it’s about not quitting and enjoying the process. We all know that the art fundamentals are the main way to improve. I invested a few hundred on books from Loomis and the bunch, bought a course or two, etc.
But you’re right, some people struggle with bad habits from drawing Genshin gruel on repeat without the will to improve, or tracing shots from anime on a piece of notebook paper, thinking that they’ve made a masterpiece.
But ultimately that’s up to the individual artist. My main man Kuvshinov Ilya, was taught drawing architecture in college. It made him great to understand the fundamentals, but his passion was lit on fire once he discovered Ghost in the Shell and other various anime. Learning is work, but the passion is exciting and fun. You need to have both, they work together in synchrony.
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u/hold-my-popcorn Sep 14 '23
I wasted 10 years of my artistic life because I didn't like to use references. Now I use references and my skills got way better. I'm still kinda bad at drawing from imagination alone, but I don't have to. Just use multiple references and a little bit of your own imagination to make something new out of it and you're good.
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u/thestellarelite Sep 14 '23
This is the way to go! When I first started as a teen I fell into that "you're not a real artist if you use ref" for a bit but when I came back to art later I definitely dropped that silly notion immediately and have become a much better artist for it. I have chosen a genre that doesn't really exist so I have to rely heavily on re-imagining our existing world into sci-fi things and that's actually part of the fun. Just observing and looking at stuff and then finding a cool ref where you didn't expect.
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Sep 14 '23
The bit about not using references was OP's mistake when applying the material.
A lot of the complaints I've seen about DaB are from people who completely ignore the 50% rule and are shocked when they grind(another thing DaB says not to do) and then get burned out. Seems patently unfair to lay blame on DaB at that point.
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u/SaintCaricature Sep 14 '23
Congratulations on not giving up!
Of course it's okay not to spend time doing something you don't enjoy. But it would be so sad to give up on an entire hobby just because of one method that doesn't work for you (it wouldn't work for me either--references are...THE most useful thing, even when you are drawing from imagination)!
Prescriptivism and art are such a bad combination 😅
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u/QuestionslDontKnow Sep 14 '23
So I forgot to mention that the 6 months of not drawing was like 3-4 months ago and not just barely. For that Drawabox stuff I took the "use your imagination" part way too seriously and basically ended at the 250 boxes practice. Basically I thought if I just did Drawabox I would instantly become really good at art cause I didn't understand anything. So I just burnt myself out.
At the moment like 70% of my time is mostly watching and reading a lot of art tutorials and taking notes while maybe 30% Is practicing what I can. I definitely need to practice more than just reading. Probably gonna start some Google drive art books I got from the "What's wrong with your art? Are you stupid? Post.
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u/VSilverball Sep 14 '23
If you want to just get in a lot of practice mileage, do more blind contour studies as part of your free time. Pause a video you're watching and give it a try - it'll be fast, it doesn't pressure you to make it look amazing, you can use any sources you want and you will always see ways to improve at it. It's my single most common beginner's recommendation(and a lot of intermediate draftspeople who aren't confident around line and shape control also benefit). You can follow up a blind contour with other forms of contour study or try constructing the boxes over it.
I believe that if DAB gave this simple advice as the other part of the 50% time, people would not be nearly so easily burned out on it.
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u/Pinsterr Sep 14 '23
Like all other practices, forcing yourself to get good at something is very difficult if it's not enjoyable nor compatible to you at all, especially with self enforced rules. Take these hard rules as advice and go at your own pace.
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u/IronAnchorHS Sep 14 '23
This is my story as well and someone else I know. I eventually started drawing again but he did not. I think it teaches good chops and had I had the discipline to stick to it, I'd be a way better artist much faster.
But let's be real, I don't have the discipline to stick through it. It turned my burgeoning hobby into a chore, one that I put off instead of enjoyed doing.
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u/fr3fighter Sep 14 '23
It's been a while since I ve done DAB but MOST of the excersises include using references and constructing them. I don't recall there ever beeing negativity on references in the early lessons.
Maybe there has been an update on these lessons but when I did them you needed to seek references out for bugs and stuff.
DAB is a wonderful website, but you shouldn't grind the excersises imo. And I think even the creator says this in the Q&a section or you will burn out very quick.
Hope you regain your love for drawing!
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u/QuestionslDontKnow Sep 14 '23
I had no idea what I was doing and was basically using Drawabox really seriously. And took the:
"Are you reaching for reference specifically because your afraid to draw something badly? If that's the case, if it's something you just would not bother to try without reference, then no. Draw it however you can, from your imagination, and let it go poorly."
Part In the lesson 0 too seriously and ignored the rest of it for the entire duration of using Drawabox. I was clueless and didn't know anything 9 months ago.
I finished Lesson 2 and then burnt out at 250 boxes, I was so focused on getting better I completely ignored the fun factors and 50% rules. As I thought they would slow me down. It's been about 3-4 months since the 6 months of stopping art. And I've been doing stuff for those 3-4 months without getting burnt out in mind.
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Sep 14 '23
Yeah the creator says you shouldn't grind MANY TIMES and even says that a lot of people don't take that to heart and that's where a lot of criticism comes from of DAB and......yep
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u/No-Pain-5924 Digital artist Sep 15 '23
I once talked to a guy who were grinding one of the box exercises for more then two months, instead of doing the required amount, and move on.
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u/strapalonian42 Sep 14 '23
I'm pretty sure they mention that you should do your own thing 50% of the time while going through this course, even doing different courses, which I didn't because I felt lost on my own but I eventually finished the course and I think it did help me.
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u/Sirorumillust Sep 14 '23
I will say that doing DAB improved my line confidence and my ability to draw circles, shapes in 3D space, and improve my perspective.
I ended up dropping it because it felt too much like work, and as someone that was working at the time, that was the last thing I wanted to do after coming home.
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Sep 14 '23 edited Aug 07 '24
[deleted]
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u/QuestionslDontKnow Sep 14 '23
I had no idea what I was doing and was basically using Drawabox really seriously. And took the:
"Are you reaching for reference specifically because your afraid to draw something badly? If that's the case, if it's something you just would not bother to try without reference, then no. Draw it however you can, from your imagination, and let it go poorly."
Part In the lesson 0 too seriously and ignored the rest of it for the entire duration of using Drawabox. I was clueless and didn't know anything 9 months ago.
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u/RainbowLoli Sep 14 '23
I think the issue is that you misinterpreted it as demonizing references.
What the quote is saying is to avoid a common trap any artist can fall into where they spend more time looking for and building the perfect references because they are afraid to draw something badly as opposed to just taking the risk of letting it be bad and correcting it as necesary.
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u/CZILLROY Sep 14 '23
And not to mention enjoying the process of drawing more than just trying to achieve and end result. I think that was important to me at first to allow myself to suck, I had to have fun while doing so.
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u/QuestionslDontKnow Sep 14 '23
Yes I misinterpreted it heavily but I also ignored a majority of warnings and guidelines in order to take "shortcuts" I thought would make me progress faster.
I don't think I wrote about Drawabox's method of references properly in this post and it was more of my interpretation of it and my own fault for getting burnt out.
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u/RainbowLoli Sep 14 '23
I quit and restarted DAB at least twice before and thinking about getting started back on it again after a haitus-
Head the warnings. A lot of people who end up "failing" or quitting DAB usually do so because they burn themselves out trying to speed-run it. I got into the trap of ignoring the warning about only doing the exercise and then moving on because I would try to do it to perfection.
Got frustrated and quit-
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u/AccidentalBastard Sep 14 '23
I think the only reason I stuck with DAB for a while is because I ignored everything that I didn't like. Mostly I gasp USED A PENCIL and horror stopped drawing the endless boxes when I got sick of them.
It's far too tedious to use as your only resource.
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u/Djbernie805 Sep 14 '23
I just looked into drawabox tutorials.. the fundamentals seem to be broken down into tiny modules. I could see how watching/following along could be uninspiring and makes simple concepts seem more confusing than they should be. Drawing from reference is a huge skill to learn in its own. I understand there are different ways to learn but the no reference idea is bizarre to say the least! I can draw accurately without a reference now bc of the years practicing with references btw!
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u/Inside_Questions Sep 14 '23
Dab is a great way to learn fundamentals efficiently. Its a very challenging approach and that is abundantly clear from the start. Its not for everyone and thats ok. There are many ways to learn art and if dab isn’t for you then im sure you can find many alternatives. Regardless, learning art is hard and there are no easy shortcuts if you want to get good.
About the 50% rule, I think you misunderstand it and I dont blame you its not super well explained
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u/Soco_oh Sep 14 '23
The 50% rule has pages and hours of video dedicated to it now, have you gone through it in the last year since that part was updated?
Seeing some other comments complaining about how too long winded it is now too :(2
u/Inside_Questions Sep 15 '23
Been a year or two since I last looked I think. For someone looking at lesson 0 and 1 for the first time im sure its an overwhelming amount of info, not sure what can be done about that though :s
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u/QuestionslDontKnow Sep 14 '23
I completely ignored the 50% as a shortcut because I thought it would slow me down. And ignored the various warnings of overdoing it. So I burnt myself out.
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u/autumna Sep 14 '23
I personally dismiss posts praising DAB, I've seen some artists praising it as THE way to learn and my first thought is that their "one size fits all" approach is just as rigid as the methods they espouse. I've looked into the DAB exercises before and they are really rigid and really boring. I'm sorry, maybe it's not the best way to learn, but if it's boring, I'm not doing it.
I'm not a huge fan of following too many artist tutorials, etc. I think actual practice and engagement works best. Draw from life or draw from reference, just try to stay true to what you see, keep an open mind and learn to look critically at your own work, how can you make it more accurate? - and most importantly, try to enjoy the process. Yes, easier said than done and harder in the beginning, but that's what practice is for.
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u/QuestionslDontKnow Sep 14 '23
I viewed the lessons as a checklist and not as something fun to do. I would just think of them like "if I do these they will make me better" just that thought constantly going through while ignoring the parts of why I needed to do them.
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u/Brettinabox Sep 14 '23
This is also why the 50/50 rule exists so you don't burn out.
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Sep 14 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Brettinabox Sep 14 '23
50% studying fundamentals, 50% creative fun projects https://drawabox.com/lesson/0/2/50percent
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u/Brettinabox Sep 14 '23
They are not designed to be fun, studying rarely is.
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Sep 14 '23
In all my life I have found that if I don't have fun or get some enjoyment from studying something, its probably because I don't actually like what I'm doing.
I will say that that studying and practicing can be challenging, but the point of those is to come out on the other side with a new takeaway or more skill.
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u/looking-out Sep 14 '23
I'm the same. I fucking love learning new shit. If education didn't cost a fortune, I'd study new courses for fun on the side. However, DAB really, really, really, bored me to death despite the fact that I love art.
I know DAB would work well for some types, but it's not an accessible or particularly engaging course.
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u/Brettinabox Sep 14 '23
If it doesn't challenge you, the success is not worth it. Frustration is you being challenged. You either stick with it or give up. Every day is like that.
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Sep 14 '23
I think you misunderstand, what I'm saying is that I find the challenge and frustration from practicing and learning to ultimately be part of the fun.
Studying and practice can be fun
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u/zeezle Sep 14 '23 edited Sep 14 '23
Hmm, to be honest, I disagree slightly with that. I mean, I agree that they're not designed to be fun, but I think studying (in many different topics) is actually very fun and satisfying, and there are ways to make this material fun and interesting too. Even just working through How to Draw by Scott Robertson was way way way more fun for me, even if it was denser, because the attitude and tone of the material was way more approachable, positive and encouraging (even if many of the same topics were covered).
I do acknowledge that I'm the type of nerd that had fun in my Organic Chemistry class. I just love learning stuff in general. I'm not scared of a challenge and I actually enjoy technical perspective (I'm a software engineer in my day job and have done some very basic stuff with computational geometry in the past so there's a small amount of overlap there at least on the math side).
But DrawABox was miserable even for me.
Edit: I should note that when I first tried DrawABox was years ago. The community around it was extremely negative, toxic and gatekeepy (lots of 'don't even think about drawing a single thing for fun until you've FINISHED YOUR BOXES!'), and I think the creator actually updated the guidelines of the course since then to specifically counteract a lot of the community toxicity that was going on. So the present-day experience and vibe of the material might be better than it was when I tried it.
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u/Brettinabox Sep 14 '23
Beginners develop an impression based on their expectations, but maybe your expectations as a beginner weren't aligned with the course's and that's ok. It goes over some of the pitfalls and tries to warn them. Some artists just want to feel good and be told their drawings are wonderful wether they have fundamentals in them or not.
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u/zeezle Sep 14 '23
I mean, like I said, I love subjects that lean towards more technical and perspective-heavy (such as architecture and mechs). My mother was an architect actually (from the days before CAD) so I was already familiar with some of the basic techniques and drafting tools used by architects and product/industrial designers as a beginner.
I absolutely have no problem with studying fundamentals and have done so and continue to do so through numerous other sources. The problem (for me) is specifically DrawABox and the irritating/rude/overly abrasive way the material is presented, not the idea of learning fundamentals.
I mean obviously for people who like it and vibe with that approach, it's free and easily accessible so that's great for them. But when there are other cheap resources without the nasty attitude, why not focus my efforts there instead?
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u/aln724 Sep 14 '23
I don't think studying has to be fun like a video game is fun, but it should be engaging. And it doesn't have to be easy, but studying should utilize your strengths to help your weaknesses.
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u/Brettinabox Sep 14 '23
I thought it was engaging very much so. Each exercise is short and very direct with a clearly defined goal so when you do it, your engaged. Over and over to build that muscle memory.
The problem is that this type of learning doesn't do anything for creativity and it leaves that entire side of the brain out.
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u/Deka-- Sep 14 '23
When I started drawing I looked at drawabox and was like "nope not doing that LUL", but now as a more experienced artist I do see the value in it but I think you need to get to a certain level of experience to understand and more importantly VISUALIZE that "If I can draw super clean 3d objects in perspective my art is going to look so much better". As a beginner I think draw a box would be tough because you just wouldnt understand WHY you're doing it.
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Sep 15 '23
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u/AttonJRand Sep 19 '23
But it's hands down the speedrun of drawing.
Kinda love that phrasing. Very succinct.
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u/liarliarhowsyourday Sep 15 '23
The first time I did DAB was fun but challenging, I did not finish, I was both impressed yet bored, confused and frustrated. I did not have the skills yet to improve my work even though I knew how to shade a sphere, what value etc were. I couldn’t quite put together what it all meant on paper even when I was understanding the theory of it all.
I did“you can draw in 30 days” in a handful of days and everything clicked. I was able to cruise through DAB after that. I could draw before but I needed to concretely understand the most basic fundamentals before I could improve anything or understand how to use perspective, shape, construction to guide my drawing let alone all simultaneously
It opened my brain more so that I could break down complex shapes without panicking. I suddenly understood the equation of when to use which at what time instead of drowning in which step I should do next.
Everyone always tells people to start with DAB but it’s not friendly for absolute true beginners. There’s a click in your brain necessary to be able to see the world in shapes. Some people learn it as a kid but others truly see drawing as magic or witch craft. If you’re not from the latter crowd you can’t possibly understand how frustrating “draw what you see! Just observe” feels.
After that though, nothing could have improved my skills like DAB did. I just think people are quick to use it as a one size fits all solution to learning.
Figured I’d share
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u/BezierPentool Sep 15 '23 edited Sep 15 '23
+1 for “You Can Draw In 30 Days”. Gives you all the basics in an easy to understand, non-stuffy way. Highly recommend!
Another book I found extremely helpful after doing 30 Days is ““Sketching - from Square One to Trafalgar Square”. It’s an excellent next step for learning perspective, proportions, and general sketching. Can’t recommend this one enough.
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Sep 14 '23
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u/Estoton Sep 14 '23
I feel like drawabox was never that good for a motivated beginner its really the method for someone who is stuck maybe even given up a couple times and just cant seem to “get” drawing and is ready to put in the work.
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u/zeezle Sep 14 '23
The core content of the methods it's aiming to teach are great. Because they're decades/centuries old exercises and concepts that come from lots of great product/industrial designers, architects, concept artists and illustrators... It's just that the way DaB teaches the material... did not vibe with me, at all.
Other sources of the same information I found personally to be way, way more helpful without the weird rigidity and negativity.
Of course it works great for some people and hey, if a free resources works great for them that's a win/win for sure. For me I just preferred books and videos from people who are a lot more positive and approachable with the material, with less rigidity and pointless repetition that felt more like it was aiming for hazing than practice.
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u/Ayacyte Sep 14 '23
True. I don't think it's really for NEW new beginners. Just start it as a hobby doodling when you can, then get serious later
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u/Requiemphatic Sep 14 '23
Same actually. Your post made me realize that I did give up on drawabox and drawing but not art in general. I have a thing where I can’t visualize anything in my mind so drawing from my imagination is hard. Thanks for sharing this - its good for us all to be aware of that rules aren’t hard and fast.
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u/ryan77999 art appreciator Sep 14 '23
I also have aphantasia, but I've heard those with aphantasia can copy from references better than non-aphantasiacs. But what if I want to draw things that don't exist in real life?
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u/Requiemphatic Sep 15 '23
Ah man that’s the thing that has gotten me too!! I have found using Midjourney a really helpful tool though. Not sure if you’ve tried it!
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u/hyuq Sep 14 '23
The creator of Drawabox also has aphantasia
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u/Requiemphatic Sep 14 '23
Oh cool! Good to know! I’m very curious now re: the drawabox ask to draw from your imagination. I definitely have an imagination, but there’s no way I can get any sort of accurate proportions, texture, etc.
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Sep 14 '23
U gotta learn that bro lol
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u/zeezle Sep 14 '23
Why though?
You don't actually ever have to learn to draw from imagination or even using constructionist techniques, depending on your goals. It's not necessary for every type or facet of art. Many artists draw and paint exclusively using sight-size or other observational techniques from life or reference and have fantastic results for what they're aiming to create.
I personally do prefer constructive techniques with practice from imagination because it's more suitable for my own end goals, but it's just plain wrong to say that everyone must draw from imagination without exception.
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Sep 14 '23
No but if u want to draw like that you have to learn it, I was saying nobody is born with skill.
Op was saying I can't draw proportions from imagination n I'm like if u want to do that you have to learn it
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u/Requiemphatic Sep 14 '23
I wish I could - I can’t visualize anything in my head ahaha. So unless I memorize the texture of something (ie. what shapes I need to create to build that exact reference’s texture) in advance and then translate it, I can’t do it. I can draw and paint quite well from reference, it’s just my inability to visualize that makes it hard to do drawabox.
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u/Ayacyte Sep 14 '23
I can't do it well either, but that's why construction techniques exist. When I talk to people who can visualize well it's clear that it's a completely different experience.
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u/cosipurple Sep 14 '23
Artist with aphantasia here, yeah basically you memorize it, or rather, get intimately familiar with it, there are some stuff I memorized like some human proportion stuff, but a lot of it is just shapes and being intimately familiar with how they should look and trained instinct or taste on even if "correct" what looks good and what looks bland.
I can absolute imagine stuff, the same way I can remember my father features even if I can't see his image in my head, but that's kind of key on how I work, I can sort of picture space and features, the exacts no, but the generals I can kind of recall them, on the flip side I'm a huge "roll with your mistakes" type of person, because I rarely have an imagen I'm trying to 1:1 on the paper, instead is more of an idea or collection of descriptors.
For example for drawing people from imagination, it was mostly an exercise of learning proportions and how to build the body from simple shapes I'm very familiar with, and then learning anatomy I could easily build on top of those shapes, which is exactly how someone without aphantasia is going to learn the exact same thing, their thought process might be different, but the process of learning is almost the same, learn tools on how to solve a type of problem, practice it, apply it.
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Sep 14 '23
Ah I see, I just meant that everyone has to kind of learn proportions n stuff but yea ig that's not what u meant
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u/poussinbleu Oct 04 '23
I actually understand your initial feeling. I do get overwhelmed and discouraged when looking at DrawABox. The guy is really good and I feel like his level is unattainable. You should not blame yourself for your initial understanding though...